63rd Street Tunnel Shutdown Begins Last week in August.

[RTOMan]

12 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I won’t be surprised if elected officials start telling the  to extend the  in place of the , CBTC issues or not.

They will get laughed at like I'm laughing now...

[RTOMan]

12 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

elected officials don't call all the shots, even if they do, it most likely wont happen. Theres too much youd need to do to.both G crews and lines for it to work, and by the time it does the GO would be close to over

This is why buffs with ideas like that..

Aren't in operations and Planning...

[Lawrence St]

33 minutes ago, RTOMan said:

Well when there's a CONDUCTOR SHORTAGE these things happen..

They had Extra Jobs for extra R service..

Folks don't want to come to work so blame them TA had the jobs But not enough people...

When is that next C/R exam again? Close to 8 years after the last one?

People say don't blame T/A, but then put themselves in this predicement.

[RTOMan]

What Makes me shake my head at some of these folks who are whining about lack of  service or how messed up   service is at tikes is this..

What about the Employees who lives are affected by these service changes?

They pick Jobs for six months because they have lives they have families..

Now they are subject to get sent or put anywhere in the system where the service is needed if their Jobs are eliminated which is happening.

So now they have to find a babysitter or make other adjustments on the fly in their lives due to this..

While some of those folks have to do is take another train and be mildly inconvenienced or Us employees don't matter?

Oh i forgot it don't matter really dose it?

Oh and for those "They know what they signed up for folks" i don't see any of you folks down here moving these trains...

Lets put it in perspective here.

Edited August 31, 2023 by RTOMan

[RTOMan]

1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

When is that next C/R exam again? Close to 8 years after the last one?

People say don't blame T/A, but then put themselves in this predicement.

Go to the Website the filing is this year...

Cant blame TA if folks dont to come to work right?

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, RTOMan said:

Go to the Website the filing is this year...

Cant blame TA if folks dont to come to work right?

Had they not waited 8 years since the last exam they would have had more people, am I wrong?

[RTOMan]

57 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Had they not waited 8 years since the last exam they would have had more people, am I wrong?

That’s a question you can ask them I wouldn’t know since I don’t work in HR. Yet we have said the same thing regarding why they didn’t hire more folks and we didn’t get any answers..That’s how they work.

Edited August 31, 2023 by RTOMan

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, RTOMan said:

What Makes me shake my head at some of these folks who are whining about lack of  service or how messed up   service is at tikes is this..

What about the Employees who lives are affected by these service changes?

They pick Jobs for six months because they have lives they have families..

Now they are subject to get sent or put anywhere in the system where the service is needed if their Jobs are eliminated which is happening.

So now they have to find a babysitter or make other adjustments on the fly in their lives due to this..

While some of those folks have to do is take another train and be mildly inconvenienced or Us employees don't matter?

Oh i forgot it don't matter really dose it?

Oh and for those "They know what they signed up for folks" i don't see any of you folks down here moving these trains...

Lets put it in perspective here.

I’m convinced that some of these people have never worked in their lives. A wise motor instructor told us years ago that people were getting dumber, not smarter, by his observations as a USMC drill instructor and then a transit instructor. If I picked a good job for my circumstances and then, through no fault of mine, was told to shift my work hours, location and possibly my days off on a whim because some titled a**hole’s screwed up I’d be pissed off. Top it off with some outsiders basically saying tough luck “ but could you please change the schedule “ so I can get some more service for me “ ? Nobody wants to screw the riders if possible but the attitude I see in the other direction reeks of self-entitlement and screw the folks who provide the service you want. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

[Robert Spire]

The  going back on the Queens Boulevard Line would be something that would be politically hard to claw back today if they brought it back. Question is, are we willing to have less trains run into Manhattan in order to make room for the  ? 

[RTOMan]

8 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’m convinced that some of these people have never worked in their lives. A wise motor instructor told us years ago that people were getting dumber, not smarter, by his observations as a USMC drill instructor and then a transit instructor. If I picked a good job for my circumstances and then, through no fault of mine, was told to shift my work hours, location and possibly my days off on a whim because some titled a**hole’s screwed up I’d be pissed off. Top it off with some outsiders basically saying tough luck “ but could you please change the schedule “ so I can get some more service for me “ ? Nobody wants to screw the riders if possible but the attitude I see in the other direction reeks of self-entitlement and screw the folks who provide the service you want. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

Exactly… Self entitled people irritate me to no end. Yet those types wouldn’t cut it a week in Schoolcar down here.. 

[N6 Limited]

I mean, I understand where you are coming from schedule-wise but sometimes it doesn’t fly. Years ago during QB trackwork they had all local service G.O.s with  terminating at Forest Hills. According to the  it “cost money” to extend the  to 179th street to get it out of the way of thru service, but the whole line and many more trains were backed up sometimes 10-30+ minutes anyway. They can pay (possible) overtime to who knows how many crews for extremely delayed trains on 3 lines, but can’t mitigate the delays by a 10 min extension of one line? 
 

On 8/30/2023 at 10:32 PM, Comrade96 said:

what G extension?

It was a joke, being that they sent some  trains via Crosstown.

 

6 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

The  going back on the Queens Boulevard Line would be something that would be politically hard to claw back today if they brought it back. Question is, are we willing to have less trains run into Manhattan in order to make room for the  ? 

That’s probably the real reason.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Why cant the MTA just do CBTC work the same time as this is going on? Just add it to 63rd so we don't have to do it later..

[Comrade96]

4 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why cant the MTA just do CBTC work the same time as this is going on? Just add it to 63rd so we don't have to do it later..

now HERE is a real question, they absolutely could if they wanted to, I dont see any reason not to

[Lawrence St]

10 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’m convinced that some of these people have never worked in their lives. A wise motor instructor told us years ago that people were getting dumber, not smarter, by his observations as a USMC drill instructor and then a transit instructor. If I picked a good job for my circumstances and then, through no fault of mine, was told to shift my work hours, location and possibly my days off on a whim because some titled a**hole’s screwed up I’d be pissed off. Top it off with some outsiders basically saying tough luck “ but could you please change the schedule “ so I can get some more service for me “ ? Nobody wants to screw the riders if possible but the attitude I see in the other direction reeks of self-entitlement and screw the folks who provide the service you want. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

I actually work on the railroad so my vision may be skewed because of how we operate, and it may be entirely different down in the subway,

Other then CBTC issues, I can’t find a logical reason why they wouldn’t have the  run in the ‘s place to at least take pressure off the .

[RTOMan]

6 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why cant the MTA just do CBTC work the same time as this is going on? Just add it to 63rd so we don't have to do it later..

They are… During the weekends and overnights…  

[RTOMan]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I actually work on the railroad so my vision may be skewed because of how we operate, and it may be entirely different down in the subway,

Other then CBTC issues, I can’t find a logical reason why they wouldn’t have the  run in the ‘s place to at least take pressure off the .

It is…

As for the other part of your answer there’s more than just CBTC issues none of which I’m discussing here..

[RTOMan]

15 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

The  going back on the Queens Boulevard Line would be something that would be politically hard to claw back today if they brought it back. Question is, are we willing to have less trains run into Manhattan in order to make room for the  ? 

Actually the post CBTC completion specs has G service along queens Blvd where the system is in place to handle it… As I said in a few years let’s see how they do with this.. Politics non withstanding…. I’ll let other folks believe or think what they want.

Edited September 1, 2023 by RTOMan

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I actually work on the railroad so my vision may be skewed because of how we operate, and it may be entirely different down in the subway,

Other then CBTC issues, I can’t find a logical reason why they wouldn’t have the  run in the ‘s place to at least take pressure off the .

Another issue with extending the  during weekdays are 2 factors:

 

1. crew shortages

2. Equipment shortages - you can ONLY use R160s on the  for obvious reasons, and the 8-car R160s from the  are not enough to provide full  service and also including a healthy spare factor. Remember that the 8-car R160s are also being used on the 63 St  and some on the  now to supplement the R179s and R46s.
 

And by what we saw Monday with the 57 St fiasco,  trains may end up rerouted onto 53 St and Queens Blvd if more hiccups happen, so the  must also use 8-car R160s. If there were enough R211s here, maybe the R160s not used on the  or  could have ran on the , get extra crews, and have all 8-car R179s to the  and have the  temporarily all R46s while the  has a 3-way split of R211, R179, and dwindling R46s, but this is the situation we are in now. You could argue that maybe not run the  train during this construction project to prevent backing up of  trains in the 60 St tunnel and use those R46s on the  to give your the extra cars to make all these wacky moves, but here’s we’re at now:

- no money

- not enough crews
- not enough compatible subway cars 

 

[RTOMan]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

Another issue with extending the  during weekdays are 2 factors:

 

1. crew shortages

2. Equipment shortages - you can ONLY use R160s on the  for obvious reasons, and the 8-car R160s from the  are not enough to provide full  service and also including a healthy spare factor. Remember that the 8-car R160s are also being used on the 63 St  and some on the  now to supplement the R179s and R46s.
 

And by what we saw Monday with the 57 St fiasco,  trains may end up rerouted onto 53 St and Queens Blvd if more hiccups happen, so the  must also use 8-car R160s. If there were enough R211s here, maybe the R160s not used on the  or  could have ran on the , get extra crews, and have all 8-car R179s to the  and have the  temporarily all R46s while the  has a 3-way split of R211, R179, and dwindling R46s, but this is the situation we are in now. You could argue that maybe not run the  train during this construction project to prevent backing up of  trains in the 60 St tunnel and use those R46s on the  to give your the extra cars to make all these wacky moves, but here’s we’re at now:

- no money

- not enough crews
- not enough compatible subway cars 

 

Those reasons been said here multiple times as well..

They just dont want to beleive it hence me saying beleive what you want to some of these folks now..

 

[Robert Spire]

The way you can make the  on the Queens Boulevard Line work both operationally and politically might be like this: 

 Queens Boulevard Express via 53rd Street all times except late nights. Late nights  Queens Boulevard Local via 53rd Street and  Queens Boulevard Local via 63rd Street.

 runs between Forest Hills-71st Avenue and Church Avenue via Crosstown Line at all times.

 runs between Forest Hills-71st Avenue and Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue via Queens Boulevard Local, 63rd Street and Broadway Express bypassing 49th Street all times except late nights. Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue as Broadway local via Montague Street tunnel like it does now.

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street as Broadway local and all  trains become  trains so there's no reduction of service, you can even try to add service to Brooklyn since they would now be all   trains. This would be all times except late nights. During late nights   would be extended to Bay Ridge-95th Street to replace the current   shuttle. 

 

I would also boost express bus service between Queens and Manhattan to compensate for the loss of a subway line between Queens and Manhattan. That would be politically beneficial as well. 

[Robert Spire]

I forgot to add one thing I'd have the  run between Middle Village-Metropolitan Avenue and 57 Street/6 Avenue all times except late nights. 

[Wallyhorse]

On 8/31/2023 at 11:22 AM, RTOMan said:

Well when there's a CONDUCTOR SHORTAGE these things happen..

They had Extra Jobs for extra R service..

Folks don't want to come to work so blame them TA had the jobs But not enough people...

And this is a by-product of the en masse retirements we saw in general during the pandemic, either because of fear of getting COVID or being forced to retire due to the effects of long COVID.  Not to mention those who died from COVIC.

It's going to take at least a full decade before things return to where they were pre-covid even if some people have since come out of retirement. 

[Comrade96]

56 minutes ago, Robert Spire said:

The way you can make the  on the Queens Boulevard Line work both operationally and politically might be like this: 

 Queens Boulevard Express via 53rd Street all times except late nights. Late nights  Queens Boulevard Local via 53rd Street and  Queens Boulevard Local via 63rd Street.

 runs between Forest Hills-71st Avenue and Church Avenue via Crosstown Line at all times.

 runs between Forest Hills-71st Avenue and Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue via Queens Boulevard Local, 63rd Street and Broadway Express bypassing 49th Street all times except late nights. Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue as Broadway local via Montague Street tunnel like it does now.

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street as Broadway local and all  trains become  trains so there's no reduction of service, you can even try to add service to Brooklyn since they would now be all   trains. This would be all times except late nights. During late nights   would be extended to Bay Ridge-95th Street to replace the current   shuttle. 

 

I would also boost express bus service between Queens and Manhattan to compensate for the loss of a subway line between Queens and Manhattan. That would be politically beneficial as well. 

yall need to read up on previous service patterns and why they didnt work before yall try and "reintroduce" them. My god, these are all bad

[R32 3838]

The issue is that had planned this for about a year now. We just want better alternatives. It doesn't have to be the   train since there are flaws That should have been fixed a long time ago ( re-routes via crosstown a lot) and it doesn't even have to involve the subway. We have the LIRR and also buses in which the hasn't done much for. Having a special Q60 that serves the local stations along queens blvd (forest hills to grand) and running express to queens plaza and then to the city would have been a good alternative As well as a special bus serving Woodhaven blvd to Queens plaza serving the stations on Broadway (in Queens). LIRR cross honoring or atleast a $2.90 fare between Jamaica and Penn Station/GCM would also help.

 

Calling people entitled for wanting better alternatives is the most ignorant shit i seen on here or on social media. We (the ones on here) are aware of the issues that is on the crew and how this is effecting the crew but that's on the and it's departments for not communicating.  This could have been solved by giving people better choices outside the system if they can't handle the issue due to crew availability and etc.

 

This is at a time where wants more money via congestion pricing and they just raised the fares (the fare hike doesn't bother me at all)

 

You think the regular people who ride the subway are entitled, The ones who are going to be forced out of their cars are going to be much much worse.  

 

can't be trying to extort more money out of people and think they can pull shit like this.

 

And to say take a different train, There isn't any. Hence the complaints and the being brought up. On one weekend the didn't show up for over an hour and then they decided to send an local after an hour wait to cover for the .

 

Even with available crew, One Screw up would cause issues with the since it's a very long local line. This is why people are complaining. People are going through shit daily and people don't give a shit about anything. They just want to get to work. Not all of us got pandemic unemployment and $1200 stimulus checks. People do not want to lose their jobs so they are way more aggressive than ever before which sucks for the crew because they have to deal with that shit vs the suits at 2 Broadway.  

 

 

Also Politics do play a huge roll. The full shutdown got canned because of politics.

 

I do agree with shutdowns like this because it gets the work done faster, I just don't like how it's been executed when they could have tried to flock people to the LIRR or gave have special bus service to cover for the lack of service.

 

In all i see them just making the local at all times until this is over.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by R32 3838

[N6 Limited]

6 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

 but here’s we’re at now:

- no money

- not enough crews
- not enough compatible subway cars 

 

 

5 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Those reasons been said here multiple times as well..

They just dont want to beleive it hence me saying beleive what you want to some of these folks now..

 

1)  No money and not enough crews, but instead of extending the  13 stops (that’s like 4 more train sets/ crews  per shift to maintain headway) , they “increase service” on the entire  line? 

2) Compatible subway cars. How many sets are needed for the  ? Train length would not need to be increased.( Unless CBTC has a minimum car length.) Put some green tape on the platform at QB stations indicating the beginning and end of where  trains stop, call it a day. Use whatever for  sets, send to 145th st if 57th st is having issues. 

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The issue is that had planned this for about a year now. We just want better alternatives…

——

And to say take a different train, There isn't any. Hence the complaints and the being brought up. On one weekend the didn't show up for over an hour and then they decided to send an local after an hour wait to cover for the .

Exactly! They know where the trains are there is no excuse for that.

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Also Politics do play a huge roll. The full shutdown got canned because of politics.

Touché 

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

I do agree with shutdowns like this because it gets the work done faster, I just don't like how it's been executed when they could have tried to flock people to the LIRR or gave have special bus service to cover for the lack of service.

In all i see them just making the local at all times until this is over.

I agree, do the shutdown(s) and get it done. Have overlapping projects in the same vicinity to reduce outages and think about service patterns/alternatives. 
 

They’re not going to cross-honor for an extended period of time, especially weekdays. Bus service is also more expensive. ( which is why I wonder why they have those Union Tpke - Jamaica center shuttles if the Hillside stations are like a <5 min ride away.  Just run a Jamaica loop shuttle(s) between Hillside and Archer stations, could probably use much less busses.