63rd Street Tunnel Shutdown Begins Last week in August.

[CenSin]

14 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

Capacity that didn't exist before December 16, 2001 and capacity which was formerly used by the  before.

I mean… the Queens Boulevard trunk didn’t exist in 1900. Therefore, we should restore it to its former state by filling in the tunnel with dirt and removing the station facilities. How far back do you want to go?

If you want past status as a justification for future changes, it gets ridiculous very fast.

On a tangent, but: It’s kind of like the Russian justification for trying to take Ukraine. If they wanted to look a little further back in history, it was Ukraine that ruled over current Russian territories. Maybe Putin should surrender Russia to Ukraine if he is so enamored with restoring things to their “rightful state.”

[CenSin]

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Edited September 8, 2023 by CenSin
Doubled posting

[RTOMan]

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Oh it’s bad over here. Like subway level fare beating bad.

And it’s ‘s problem for not wanting to fix it.

Rule 10 prevents me from saying what i want to say...

[M5viaRiverside]

Why not bring back the ? I could see it being feasible provided you scale back the and (via 53rd St) to 5 minute frequencies each. You would have to take off some express trains to make room for the locals (the would have to run no more than every 9-10 minutes) but ultimately, this would be more of a redistribution of service than anything else.

Any thoughts?

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by M5viaRiverside

[Comrade96]

2 hours ago, M5viaRiverside said:

Why not bring back the ? I could see it being feasible provided you scale back the and (via 53rd St) to 5 minute frequencies each. You would have to take off some express trains to make room for the locals (the would have to run no more than every 9-10 minutes) but ultimately, this would be more of a redistribution of service than anything else.

Any thoughts?

 

No room on 6th ave for another local, especially not one that has to hold at lafayette as well

[RTOMan]

12 hours ago, M5viaRiverside said:

Why not bring back the ? I could see it being feasible provided you scale back the and (via 53rd St) to 5 minute frequencies each. You would have to take off some express trains to make room for the locals (the would have to run no more than every 9-10 minutes) but ultimately, this would be more of a redistribution of service than anything else.

Any thoughts?

 

Not a good idea....

Also they go local for about two hours in both directions anyway during the day to accommodate work train moves and they go local earlier at night..

They are running extra  service just for what you just said anyway.

Edited October 2, 2023 by RTOMan

[slantfan4281]

Any chance that they swap the  and  long term as a result of this if they find the service pattern to work better? It would be great to not deal with the 36th St merge anymore. You can run the  to Forest Hills over the weekend and the  via 63rd overnight. If you don't want to run 2 locals on QBL over the weekend you can swap the  and  in Queens and maybe get the  to share equipment with the  kind of like the whole  /  situation. You'd also have one less conflict impacting  service.

[darkstar8983]

A reduced frequency of the  during this outage is pointless - at that point, they would have ran the  to 71 Av on a 12-15 minute headway, and had alternating  trains from Metropolitan Av terminate at 57 St. Then during middays and evenings, the  would only serve stations from Metropolitan Av to 47-50 Sts, then terminate at 57 St, every 10 minutes. This way, the rush hour frequency of the  between Manhattan and Brooklyn would have remained the same as it was before the closure.

[Vulturious]

13 hours ago, M5viaRiverside said:

Why not bring back the ? I could see it being feasible provided you scale back the and (via 53rd St) to 5 minute frequencies each. You would have to take off some express trains to make room for the locals (the would have to run no more than every 9-10 minutes) but ultimately, this would be more of a redistribution of service than anything else.

Any thoughts?

And you would run them where exactly outside of heading into Queens? That's like having the  running along QBL with the  which isn't doing either lines along with the  any favors. 

If, and that's a big if, you were to do this, I would have it running into Brooklyn to Church Av normal service and Kings Highway for rush hour to help with the lack of  service that it's going to be dealing with. Even the, who knows how well that would've worked out because there's still the decrease in service overall across those lines.

[Vulturious]

28 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

Any chance that they swap the  and  long term as a result of this if they find the service pattern to work better? It would be great to not deal with the 36th St merge anymore. You can run the  to Forest Hills over the weekend and the  via 63rd overnight. If you don't want to run 2 locals on QBL over the weekend you can swap the  and  in Queens and maybe get the  to share equipment with the  kind of like the whole  /  situation. You'd also have one less conflict impacting  service.

If the  and  were to swap, it would be just similar to what the  did prior to the 63 St connection to QBL that being  trains running along 63 St whenever the  isn't along 6th Av. It would still 100% stay express either way when doing so, unfair for 63 St riders seeing as they get shafted to local trains from 63 St while express during weekends. Definitely be confusing at first, but people will adapt and get used to it in like 2 weeks or so.

[RTOMan]

51 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

Any chance that they swap the  and  long term as a result of this if they find the service pattern to work better? It would be great to not deal with the 36th St merge anymore. You can run the  to Forest Hills over the weekend and the  via 63rd overnight. If you don't want to run 2 locals on QBL over the weekend you can swap the  and  in Queens and maybe get the  to share equipment with the  kind of like the whole  /  situation. You'd also have one less conflict impacting  service.

Then when the  stops running in Manhattan making the  go up 63rd street is isn't cost effective TA wise.

They changed the entire work program due to this Shutdown, which costs TA money.

It does make sense less switch movement at the Plaza though.

That's why it wont happen lol...

[slantfan4281]

2 hours ago, Vulturious said:

If the  and  were to swap, it would be just similar to what the  did prior to the 63 St connection to QBL that being  trains running along 63 St whenever the  isn't along 6th Av. It would still 100% stay express either way when doing so, unfair for 63 St riders seeing as they get shafted to local trains from 63 St while express during weekends. Definitely be confusing at first, but people will adapt and get used to it in like 2 weeks or so.

I would just run the  over the weekend, so the only time the  would run on 63rd would be overnight. I get that if you work near say, Lex-63rd, and live near 71st Av, it obviously wouldn't be ideal, but in that case you could take either the  or  to Queens Plaza and then transfer to the  under my plan (or the  if you leave Broadway alone). 

[slantfan4281]

2 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Then when the  stops running in Manhattan making the  go up 63rd street is isn't cost effective TA wise.

They changed the entire work program due to this Shutdown, which costs TA money.

It does make sense less switch movement at the Plaza though.

That's why it wont happen lol...

I get the MTA would be wary of paying extra to run the  all the way to 71st over the weekend, but if you were to simultaneously swap the  and  in Queens, you could reduce runtimes and the amount of equipment needed, as well as improve reliability. The  would remain a weekday only service, with the  being the primary QBL local line

[RTOMan]

20 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

I get the MTA would be wary of paying extra to run the  all the way to 71st over the weekend, but if you were to simultaneously swap the  and  in Queens, you could reduce runtimes and the amount of equipment needed, as well as improve reliability. The  would remain a weekday only service, with the  being the primary QBL local line

Two different districts the  and the  in… That requires changing the work program since the  is a weekday only line. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by RTOMan

[M5viaRiverside]

On 10/2/2023 at 9:40 AM, darkstar8983 said:

A reduced frequency of the  during this outage is pointless - at that point, they would have ran the  to 71 Av on a 12-15 minute headway, and had alternating  trains from Metropolitan Av terminate at 57 St. Then during middays and evenings, the  would only serve stations from Metropolitan Av to 47-50 Sts, then terminate at 57 St, every 10 minutes. This way, the rush hour frequency of the  between Manhattan and Brooklyn would have remained the same as it was before the closure.

For a six month closure, it's probably more trouble than its worth to bring the back, but it is an interesting case study. Especially for future outages...

Has alternate  trains to Forest Hills been seriously considerded at length? This seems like the no-brainer deal here.

The is prone to screw ups, especially when solo on QBL, as we all know...

On 10/2/2023 at 9:54 AM, Vulturious said:

And you would run them where exactly outside of heading into Queens? That's like having the  running along QBL with the  which isn't doing either lines along with the  any favors. 

If, and that's a big if, you were to do this, I would have it running into Brooklyn to Church Av normal service and Kings Highway for rush hour to help with the lack of  service that it's going to be dealing with. Even the, who knows how well that would've worked out because there's still the decrease in service overall across those lines.

If you bring back the , it'd be shortsighted NOT to run it to Brooklyn (Church/18th Av/Kings Hwy). If you scheduled the and properly, you could probably squeeze some more trains as well...

Edited October 5, 2023 by M5viaRiverside

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, M5viaRiverside said:

For a six month closure, it's probably more trouble than its worth to bring the back, but it is an interesting case study. Especially for future outages...

Has alternate  trains to Forest Hills been seriously considerded at length? This seems like the no-brainer deal here.

The is prone to screw ups, especially when solo on QBL, as we all know...

If you bring back the , it'd be shortsighted NOT to run it to Brooklyn (Church/18th Av/Kings Hwy). If you scheduled the and properly, you could probably squeeze some more trains as well...

…then wouldn’t the  be a short turn ?

[GreatOne2k]

29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

…then wouldn’t the  be a short turn ?

 would be local in Queens,  is (usually) express in Queens.

[RTOMan]

11 hours ago, GreatOne2k said:

 would be local in Queens,  is (usually) express in Queens.

With this GO  trains are local in Queens earlier.

They extra trains that are left are used for extra  service..

When they have the Crews for them because some folks just dont want to come to work or are restricted terminated or quit..

Pick any one...

[Lawrence St]

Is it true the only reason this project is taking longer then it needs to is because Roosevelt Island politicians didn’t want to have no train service on the island?

[Comrade96]

25 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Is it true the only reason this project is taking longer then it needs to is because Roosevelt Island politicians didn’t want to have no train service on the island?

I would moreso say the people who live on the island had a bigger say in regards to that

[Lawrence St]

5 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

I would moreso say the people who live on the island had a bigger say in regards to that

So, they are screwing over other passengers who want service to return ASAP, because they can't be bothered to board a shuttle bus? In what universe does that make any sense.

[Comrade96]

14 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So, they are screwing over other passengers who want service to return ASAP, because they can't be bothered to board a shuttle bus? In what universe does that make any sense.

I dunno man. im not 100% certain that that is the case either

[CyclonicTrainLookout]

56 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So, they are screwing over other passengers who want service to return ASAP, because they can't be bothered to board a shuttle bus? In what universe does that make any sense.

To be fair, the are only two ways to access Manhattan from Roosevelt Island, and neither is by road. I guess the MTA would rather prolong the 63rd Street construction just to give the island people direct access to Manhattan and the subway there.

[CenSin]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:48 PM, M5viaRiverside said:

If you scheduled the and properly, you could probably squeeze some more trains as well...

A lotta things look good on paper. As for the execution…

[RTOMan]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:48 PM, M5viaRiverside said:

If you bring back the , it'd be shortsighted NOT to run it to Brooklyn (Church/18th Av/Kings Hwy). If you scheduled the and properly, you could probably squeeze some more trains as well...

No not happening gotta change the work program for that and since we are Picking for the Fall starting Monday....

Just not happening...