63rd Street Tunnel Shutdown Begins Last week in August.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The issue is that had planned this for about a year now. We just want better alternatives. It doesn't have to be the   train since there are flaws That should have been fixed a long time ago ( re-routes via crosstown a lot) and it doesn't even have to involve the subway. We have the LIRR and also buses in which the hasn't done much for. Having a special Q60 that serves the local stations along queens blvd (forest hills to grand) and running express to queens plaza and then to the city would have been a good alternative As well as a special bus serving Woodhaven blvd to Queens plaza serving the stations on Broadway (in Queens). LIRR cross honoring or atleast a $2.90 fare between Jamaica and Penn Station/GCM would also help.

 

Calling people entitled for wanting better alternatives is the most ignorant shit i seen on here or on social media. We (the ones on here) are aware of the issues that is on the crew and how this is effecting the crew but that's on the and it's departments for not communicating.  This could have been solved by giving people better choices outside the system if they can't handle the issue due to crew availability and etc.

 

This is at a time where wants more money via congestion pricing and they just raised the fares (the fare hike doesn't bother me at all)

 

You think the regular people who ride the subway are entitled, The ones who are going to be forced out of their cars are going to be much much worse.  

 

can't be trying to extort more money out of people and think they can pull shit like this.

 

And to say take a different train, There isn't any. Hence the complaints and the being brought up. On one weekend the didn't show up for over an hour and then they decided to send an local after an hour wait to cover for the .

 

Even with available crew, One Screw up would cause issues with the since it's a very long local line. This is why people are complaining. People are going through shit daily and people don't give a shit about anything. They just want to get to work. Not all of us got pandemic unemployment and $1200 stimulus checks. People do not want to lose their jobs so they are way more aggressive than ever before which sucks for the crew because they have to deal with that shit vs the suits at 2 Broadway.  

 

 

Also Politics do play a huge roll. The full shutdown got canned because of politics.

 

I do agree with shutdowns like this because it gets the work done faster, I just don't like how it's been executed when they could have tried to flock people to the LIRR or gave have special bus service to cover for the lack of service.

 

In all i see them just making the local at all times until this is over.

 

 

 

I fully agree with all of these points. I brought up the  because it’s the most logical thing to do without spending more money. I’m sure all that “extra” service they have running on the  could have been used to instead extend the .

But something I’ve been wanting to ask is why does the , an somewhat equally long line, not have as many reliability issues as the  despite being 

[R32 3838]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I fully agree with all of these points. I brought up the  because it’s the most logical thing to do without spending more money. I’m sure all that “extra” service they have running on the  could have been used to instead extend the .

But something I’ve been wanting to ask is why does the , an somewhat equally long line, not have as many reliability issues as the  despite being 

The issue with the vs the is that it's a local and has too many slow spots since it's a BMT line and also it has to follow the from whitehall st and the from 42nd st (prince st on weekends) whereas the is express (local at night) doesn't have any slow spots besides that area between 175th and 168th st. Plus it's an IND line which doesn't have that many sharp curves compared to the BMT.

 

Even if they extended the it would have costed them money. The biggest issue is the area between Court sq and Queens plaza.

 

The main issue is just that could have planned this better instead of what we got. They knew that the crew had to pick jobs. Either way or the other people are getting screwed and it's not fair for both the crew and the passengers to deal with something that could have easily been done better.

 

I also blame the clowns in Roosevelt Island, They could have taken a shuttle bus to Queens Plaza where the   , and trains are available. It only takes about no less than 20 mins to get to queens plaza. Because of them bitching, This GO has to last longer because they have to do one track at a time between Queens-bridge and Lexington 63rd. That 20 min wait for the Shuttle train could be have been used to get to queens plaza. I would have preferred a whole shutdown vs what we have. 

[Cait Sith]

12 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I also blame the clowns in Roosevelt Island, They could have taken a shuttle bus to Queens Plaza where the   , and trains are available. It only takes about no less than 20 mins to get to queens plaza. Because of them bitching, This GO has to last longer because they have to do one track at a time between Queens-bridge and Lexington 63rd. That 20 min wait for the Shuttle train could be have been used to get to queens plaza. I would have preferred a whole shutdown vs what we have. 

They also have their own shuttle buses to Manhattan.

[Wallyhorse]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Even with available crew, One Screw up would cause issues with the since it's a very long local line. This is why people are complaining. People are going through shit daily and people don't give a shit about anything. They just want to get to work. Not all of us got pandemic unemployment and $1200 stimulus checks. People do not want to lose their jobs so they are way more aggressive than ever before which sucks for the crew because they have to deal with that shit vs the suits at 2 Broadway.  

Also Politics do play a huge roll. The full shutdown got canned because of politics.

And is one of the reasons I move the  to Nassau as noted in prior posts (mainly 95th-Canal Street on the to shorten the   considerably and have the cover the Manhattan and QBL portions running Whitehall-71st/Continental (with for overflow trains that can't be turned at Whitehall running to the tunnel level of Canal Street) and a new "Yellow " running from Bay Parkway or 9th Avenue on the  to Astoria to keep the connection of lower Manhattan from 4th Avenue in place (with a same platform transfer from the Nassau  to the "Yellow " in this anywhere between 36th and Court). 

As for the , that was Cuomo, IMO at the time of doing so looking ahead to a Presidential run and likely very concerned such a shutdown would create a massive problem for those who have to drive into work in Manhattan, especially those who have employers who frown on people coming from the suburbs on public transportation IMO because it can hurt a company's image with highly snobbish clients who look down on those who use public transportation.   IMO, Cuomo feared losing votes in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and to a lesser extent Pennsylvania over a full shutdown if he had run for President from those who commute to work from outside NYC who insist or in some cases have to drive at the insistence of their employers. 

[R32 3838]

37 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

They also have their own shuttle buses to Manhattan.

i thought they didn't, i remember when the tram was getting replaced, They had the red old gen buses go to the city. If that's so they could have worked out a deal to have provide additional shuttle buses alongside their own.

Edited September 1, 2023 by R32 3838

[Maxwell179]

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

And is one of the reasons I move the  to Nassau as noted in prior posts (mainly 95th-Canal Street on the to shorten the   considerably and have the cover the Manhattan and QBL portions running Whitehall-71st/Continental (with for overflow trains that can't be turned at Whitehall running to the tunnel level of Canal Street) and a new "Yellow " running from Bay Parkway or 9th Avenue on the  to Astoria to keep the connection of lower Manhattan from 4th Avenue in place (with a same platform transfer from the Nassau  to the "Yellow " in this anywhere between 36th and Court). 

As for the , that was Cuomo, IMO at the time of doing so looking ahead to a Presidential run and likely very concerned such a shutdown would create a massive problem for those who have to drive into work in Manhattan, especially those who have employers who frown on people coming from the suburbs on public transportation IMO because it can hurt a company's image with highly snobbish clients who look down on those who use public transportation.   IMO, Cuomo feared losing votes in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and to a lesser extent Pennsylvania over a full shutdown if he had run for President from those who commute to work from outside NYC who insist or in some cases have to drive at the insistence of their employers. 

You don’t get tired of repeating yourself over and over again or hearing people tell you that your idea isn’t feasible or sensible ???

Edited September 2, 2023 by Maxwell179
It wasn’t that serious but I was fed up 😂

[R32 3838]

33 minutes ago, Maxwell179 said:

You don’t get tired of repeating yourself over and over again or hearing people tell you that your idea isn’t feasible or sensible ???

that's why i ignored him.

[ThatSubwayFan980]

34 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

that's why i ignored him.

[RTOMan]

After reading  some of these replies boy I’m glad Some of you are not  in a position to have any say so in these types of GOs..

Seriously…

Edited September 2, 2023 by RTOMan

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

You don’t get tired of repeating yourself over and over again or hearing people tell you that your idea isn’t feasible or sensible ???

The  to Nassau I noted is more about improving service in Brooklyn where it is the "rarely" by shortening it considerably  Splitting it with the moving to 71st-Continental and a new "Yellow " running as the Broadway local from Brooklyn to Astoria (from Bay Parkway or 9th Avenue on the ) accomplishes that.  

Nassau just happens to be the best spot to terminate this version of the  to accomplish the main goal of making it more reliable in Brooklyn, especially Bay Ridge where pols wanted the  split in the first place. 

[subwaykid256]

Would it be feasible to bring  Service back and have it run from Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge 95th st 

Cut   Trains to Whitehall. 

Extend  to 57/6
 

extend  service to Forest Hills 

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, subwaykid256 said:

Would it be feasible to bring  Service back and have it run from Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge 95th st 

Cut   Trains to Whitehall. 

Extend  to 57/6
 

extend  service to Forest Hills 

1.) The  would be carrying air replacing service to Bay Ridge.

2.) Why would cutting the  back help? It can't even terminate at Whitehall because of the  unless you cut that back to Canal St which doesn't matter anyway cause of Whitehall only having 1 track to terminate.

3.) What's the point? it'll still be a single track service with only a direct connection to the  as a subway line at Lex-63 St.

4.) There are half a dozen people in this thread alone that have already stated why the  cannot and will not return to Forest Hills.

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, subwaykid256 said:

Would it be feasible to bring  Service back and have it run from Metropolitan Av - Bay Ridge 95th st 

Cut   Trains to Whitehall. 

Extend  to 57/6

extend  service to Forest Hills 

The late-night and weekend version of the  I would do is the exact same route you have for the .  It would be extended nights and weekends to Metropolitan from Canal Street to absorb the current late night and weekend shuttles as this  would be based out of East New York with in-service yard runs from and to Broadway Junction on the that are scheduled that way throughout the day.  Otherwise, this  would run to a rebuilt Canal Street on the (abandoned northbound platforms at Canal and Bowery on the  reopened) that would serve as the terminal on weekdays.

The I propose that would be Whitehall-71st/Continental is exactly the same as the  you propose.  This  would be 19/7 like the  currently is (with during peak hours, some trains ending and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street).

The "Yellow " I propose would serve as the 4th Avenue local via the tunnel, supplementing the in lower Manhattan and the to Astoria.

This (again!) was all originally proposed by me out of Bay Ridge politicians wanting the split because of it being the "rarely" in Brooklyn and this was to satisfy them. 
 

[nightmare402]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The late-night and weekend version of the  I would do is the exact same route you have for the .  It would be extended nights and weekends to Metropolitan from Canal Street to absorb the current late night and weekend shuttles as this  would be based out of East New York with in-service yard runs from and to Broadway Junction on the that are scheduled that way throughout the day.  Otherwise, this  would run to a rebuilt Canal Street on the (abandoned northbound platforms at Canal and Bowery on the  reopened) that would serve as the terminal on weekdays.

The I propose that would be Whitehall-71st/Continental is exactly the same as the  you propose.  This  would be 19/7 like the  currently is (with during peak hours, some trains ending and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street).

The "Yellow " I propose would serve as the 4th Avenue local via the tunnel, supplementing the in lower Manhattan and the to Astoria.

This (again!) was all originally proposed by me out of Bay Ridge politicians wanting the split because of it being the "rarely" in Brooklyn and this was to satisfy them. 
 

No

[RTOMan]

10 hours ago, RTOMan said:

After reading  some of these replies boy I’m glad Some of you are not  in a position to have any say so in these types of GOs..

Seriously…

I’ll repeat this again…

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, RTOMan said:

I’ll repeat this again…

If this forum ever gains AI features, there’s no better use for it than giving an automated response to some common suggestions. I wonder what Chat GPT has to say about some of these proposals—if it learned anything from NYCTF. 😉

[RTOMan]

6 minutes ago, CenSin said:

If this forum ever gains AI features, there’s no better use for it than giving an automated response to some common suggestions. I wonder what Chat GPT has to say about some of these proposals—if it learned anything from NYCTF. 😉

I have shown some of these replies to Supts I know and they just laugh..The first thing they ask is (after the laugh) is “Some of those folks aren’t in RTO right?”  

Edited September 2, 2023 by RTOMan

[ThatSubwayFan980]

2 hours ago, RTOMan said:

I have shown some of these replies to Supts I know and they just laugh..The first thing they ask is (after the laugh) is “Some of those folks aren’t in RTO right?”  

Yeah, I think this has gone too far enough. It's ChatGPT! It knows everything, right?

[darkstar8983]

I forgot to mention another important point as to why the  isn’t on Queens Blvd, despite an earlier proposal that the  was going to run, albeit reduced service along with the reduced service  via 53 St. The 53 St tunnel would have been maxed out in terms of capacity, leaving literally no flexibility in case of a service disruption. Before, QB had the flexibility to reroute trains through different tunnels and trains could still reach their final destination, mainly due to the flexibility of the IND (6 Av and 8 Av).

- if an issue arose on the 53 St tunnel, reroute all trains to 63 St, and vice-versa

- if an issue occurred in the 59 St tunnel, reroute the  via 63 St between 57 St-7 Av and 36 St Queens, or even send the  via Manhattan Bridge / 6 Av Express, then go to 53 St OR 63 St.

the point being there was ROOM for rerouted trains with not having a huge conga line of trains backing up. Yes there were delays but they weren’t 30+ minutes worth of trains just waiting to merge.

perfect example - the week before the shutdown there was an Issue at Times Square on the Broadway Line (unauthorized person on tracks) and the  was rerouted via 6 Av/63 St just fine (yes there were merging delays), but traffic for the most part was moving, albeit slowly, and just had to be wary of  trains that were gumming up the works since they couldn’t be rerouted.

now, if there is a problem on 53 St, the  must run via Crosstown, skipping Manhattan, but traffic flow keeps moving, and the  must go from Queens to Whitehall St, and trains on 8 Av going northbound must go to 168 St.

if there is an issue on 59 St, the  can still run via 53 St/6 Av to the Manhattan Bridge, and trains stuck going northbound already ln Broadway would just go to 96 St/2 Av, and go back to Brooklyn. 
 

the moral is that with not running the on QB, yes there are more crowded trains on the corridor, but trains can also be rerouted without having too much issue worrying where the overflow of trains will go or back up at whenever there is an issue. There is capacity on 53 St for rerouted s, and the  can go via 59 St during disruptions making nearby stops at least in lower manhattan and in the Times Square area, with overflow s going via Crosstown

[CenSin]

On 9/2/2023 at 9:47 AM, nightmare402 said:

On 9/2/2023 at 4:44 AM, Wallyhorse said:

The late-night and weekend version of the  I would do is the exact same route you have for the .  It would be extended nights and weekends to Metropolitan from Canal Street to absorb the current late night and weekend shuttles as this  would be based out of East New York with in-service yard runs from and to Broadway Junction on the that are scheduled that way throughout the day.  Otherwise, this  would run to a rebuilt Canal Street on the (abandoned northbound platforms at Canal and Bowery on the  reopened) that would serve as the terminal on weekdays.

The I propose that would be Whitehall-71st/Continental is exactly the same as the  you propose.  This  would be 19/7 like the  currently is (with during peak hours, some trains ending and beginning on the tunnel level of Canal Street).

The "Yellow " I propose would serve as the 4th Avenue local via the tunnel, supplementing the in lower Manhattan and the to Astoria.

This (again!) was all originally proposed by me out of Bay Ridge politicians wanting the split because of it being the "rarely" in Brooklyn and this was to satisfy them. 
 

Expand  

No

Gotta give him credit for persistence though. Someone hook him up with a cushy job at a lobbying firm. They’ll be happy to have someone who insists and never takes “no” for an answer. Put NYCTF down as a reference. Heck, I’ll vouch for him. Seen it for at least 10 years if not longer. This guy’ll outlast several administrations to push an agenda.

[Robert Spire]

De-interlining might also help long term. A more controversial permanent suggestion once the 63rd Street work is finished might be to do this:

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica Center all times except late nights with select rush hour trains to 179th Street. Late nights  is Queens Boulevard Local to Jamaica Center. 

 Queens Boulevard Local to Forest Hills-71 Avenue all times except late nights. Both  and  run via 63rd Street.

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica-179th Street all times except late nights. Late nights is Queens Boulevard Local to 179th Street.

 runs between 96th Street and Coney Island as Broadway Express all times except late nights skipping 49th Street with the  . Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island as Broadway Local via tunnel. 

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street all times except late nights. 

[Comrade96]

28 minutes ago, Robert Spire said:

De-interlining might also help long term. A more controversial permanent suggestion once the 63rd Street work is finished might be to do this:

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica Center all times except late nights with select rush hour trains to 179th Street. Late nights  is Queens Boulevard Local to Jamaica Center. 

 Queens Boulevard Local to Forest Hills-71 Avenue all times except late nights. Both  and  run via 63rd Street.

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica-179th Street all times except late nights. Late nights is Queens Boulevard Local to 179th Street.

 runs between 96th Street and Coney Island as Broadway Express all times except late nights skipping 49th Street with the  . Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island as Broadway Local via tunnel. 

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street all times except late nights. 

Taking away broadway service from QBL would be a mistake. Deinterlining isnt some magic solution everyone thinks it is

[darkstar8983]

I think the best way to truly de-interline the system is start from how service operates late nights, and adjust as follows to increase service:

 - no change

 - switch from Broadway/7 Av Local to Express

 - no night service

 - switch from local to express in Manhattan and Brooklyn

 - unchanged

 - add the usual express service 

 - add the usual express service

 - switch from 8 Av Local to Express (local in Brooklyn for Lefferts Blvd  trains)

 - Make service on Central Park West Local, Keep Express on 6 Av, Manhattan Bridge, and 4 Av

- Express to Jamaica Center all times

 - Local to 179 St all times (via 63 St)

 - No Change

- No Changes

- no change

 - no change (shuttle)

 - no change

 - switch service on Broadway from local to Express (57 St-7 Av to Canal St and via Manhattan Bridge)

 - no change to night service (shuttle)

 

*Then you can beef up service on these lines and max out capacity by not interlining. The main problem with this is that many commutterrs will end up using transfer stations to change lines because now most trains will NOT go the way they're going.

[CenSin]

8 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica Center all times except late nights with select rush hour trains to 179th Street. Late nights  is Queens Boulevard Local to Jamaica Center. 

 Queens Boulevard Local to Forest Hills-71 Avenue all times except late nights. Both  and  run via 63rd Street.

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica-179th Street all times except late nights. Late nights is Queens Boulevard Local to 179th Street.

 runs between 96th Street and Coney Island as Broadway Express all times except late nights skipping 49th Street with the  . Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island as Broadway Local via tunnel. 

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street all times except late nights. 

You want half the express trains barreling down Queens/Northern Boulevard to drop off a whole bunch of people at Queens Plaza or Court Square to take the next train or make a mad rush up to get the because it skips Manhattan?

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, CenSin said:

You want half the express trains barreling down Queens/Northern Boulevard to drop off a whole bunch of people at Queens Plaza or Court Square to take the next train or make a mad rush up to get the because it skips Manhattan?

Not to mention the comes in on the local track at Queens Plaza.  I would look at having the and all go to 179 if it means being able to run three locals on the full route of Queens Boulevard weekdays before I made the an express train.  

14 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

De-interlining might also help long term. A more controversial permanent suggestion once the 63rd Street work is finished might be to do this:

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica Center all times except late nights with select rush hour trains to 179th Street. Late nights  is Queens Boulevard Local to Jamaica Center. 

 Queens Boulevard Local to Forest Hills-71 Avenue all times except late nights. Both  and  run via 63rd Street.

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica-179th Street all times except late nights. Late nights is Queens Boulevard Local to 179th Street.

 runs between 96th Street and Coney Island as Broadway Express all times except late nights skipping 49th Street with the  . Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island as Broadway Local via tunnel. 

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street all times except late nights. 

There is a reason the  stopped running to Astoria and swapped terminals with the  in 1987, and that was lack of yard access for the .