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LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread


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2 hours ago, xD4nn said:

The station itself is in NJ and is owned by NJT. The yard is in NY but NJT owns it.

The station is solidly on the NY side of the border, pretty much in the middle of the town. I think it has more to do with the yard being used for NJT operations, combined with the fact that the majority of trains serving that station are non-contracted (to Metro-North) NJT trains.

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7 hours ago, xD4nn said:

Everything involving money is covered by MNRR. I don't see why NJT would want to buy it.

 

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, by buying it, they'd have to suddenly find millions of dollars for service operations and for the capital projects and general maintenance.

Gotcha. Seems like a big headache for MNRR to need to manage all of this, but what do I know lol 

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12 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

 

Gotcha. Seems like a big headache for MNRR to need to manage all of this, but what do I know lol 

Sometimes sweetheart deals are involved where the (MTA) takes over or is given things for very cheap. One example is  Yonkers Depot.  The land the depot sits on is owned by NYC and leased to the (MTA).  NYC pays ZERO property taxes on what is now prime waterfront real estate. lol Yonkers wants the land, but the (MTA) won't give it up unless they get a brand new depot out the deal at a minimum. 

With this situation, it looks like Metro-North leased the Port Jervis line from Norfolk Southern Railway, with the option to buy it outright almost twenty years ago.  Assuming they exercised that option, I'm sure it's worth a lot more now since they've been making upgrades to the line.  

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sometimes sweetheart deals are involved where the (MTA) takes over or is given things for very cheap. One example is  Yonkers Depot.  The land the depot sits on is owned by NYC and leased to the (MTA).  NYC pays ZERO property taxes on what is now prime waterfront real estate. lol Yonkers wants the land, but the (MTA) won't give it up unless they get a brand new depot out the deal at a minimum. 

With this situation, it looks like Metro-North leased the Port Jervis line from Norfolk Southern Railway, with the option to buy it outright almost twenty years ago.  Assuming they exercised that option, I'm sure it's worth a lot more now since they've been making upgrades to the line.  

Interesting, thanks!

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sometimes sweetheart deals are involved where the (MTA) takes over or is given things for very cheap. One example is  Yonkers Depot.  The land the depot sits on is owned by NYC and leased to the (MTA).  NYC pays ZERO property taxes on what is now prime waterfront real estate. lol Yonkers wants the land, but the (MTA) won't give it up unless they get a brand new depot out the deal at a minimum. 

With this situation, it looks like Metro-North leased the Port Jervis line from Norfolk Southern Railway, with the option to buy it outright almost twenty years ago.  Assuming they exercised that option, I'm sure it's worth a lot more now since they've been making upgrades to the line.  

How does that make sense? Yonkers Depot sits on Yonkers territory but NYC owns it??? Unless you mean that NYC actually owns it as a landlord and not that it’s a part of NYC itself.

Edited by Lawrence St
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19 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

How does that make sense? Yonkers Depot sits on Yonkers territory but NYC owns it??? Unless you mean that NYC actually owns it as a landlord and not that it’s a part of NYC itself.

It makes perfect sense.  You seem to forget that sometimes things change hands many times.  Some of the private bus companies were struggling to make it.  The easiest solution was to consolidate them and take over the bus lines, which is exactly what happened. It was cheaper for NYC (yes NYC) from a cost standpoint.  With the exception of one bus line, all of the other buses out of Yonkers Depot serve only NYC.  We're now in 2023.  The consolidation happened over ten years ago when the city of Yonkers wasn't as interested as they have been lately in revitalizing the waterfront.  Now that they have lured a number of new businesses in and invested to revitalize the area, that land has become quite expensive and they want it, as it would generate tax revenue, jobs, etc. for Yonkers.  The (MTA) will sit on it until they get exactly what they want.  Yonkers at the moment does not want to provide funding to a new depot, as they know that would not be cheap. It is in the interest of the (MTA) and NYC to continue the agreement in place, esp. since NYC pays no property taxes.

Looking at the railroads, many of them failed due to declining ridership and we've seen a ton of consolidation over the years as a result.  None of what has happened should be a surprise to you.  Some of these private operators were heavily subsidized to keep afloat, but the subsidies don't last forever and when they run out, many have been unable to continue.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sometimes sweetheart deals are involved where the (MTA) takes over or is given things for very cheap. One example is  Yonkers Depot.  The land the depot sits on is owned by NYC and leased to the (MTA).  NYC pays ZERO property taxes on what is now prime waterfront real estate. lol Yonkers wants the land, but the (MTA) won't give it up unless they get a brand new depot out the deal at a minimum. 

With this situation, it looks like Metro-North leased the Port Jervis line from Norfolk Southern Railway, with the option to buy it outright almost twenty years ago.  Assuming they exercised that option, I'm sure it's worth a lot more now since they've been making upgrades to the line.  

Metro North doesn't lease Port Jervis. They co-own it with Norfolk Southern.

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SUBDIVPORT JERVIS LINE

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1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

Metro North doesn't lease Port Jervis. They co-own it with Norfolk Southern.

Re-read what I wrote...

Quote

It looks like Metro-North leased the Port Jervis line from Norfolk Southern Railway, with the option to buy it outright almost twenty years ago. 

At one point they did lease it.

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23 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Gotcha. Seems like a big headache for MNRR to need to manage all of this, but what do I know lol 

My guess is it's probably some state law saying that because it's an operation that primarily serves NY residents, Metro-North needs to be involved. 

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How does that make sense? Yonkers Depot sits on Yonkers territory but NYC owns it??? Unless you mean that NYC actually owns it as a landlord and not that it’s a part of NYC itself.

Apparently the NYC Sewage Department has a building out in Port Jervis: https://goo.gl/maps/VmvfDoDTLb9dByDU7

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Since there's no proposal threads, here's an idea I've head floating in my head:

Harlem Line Extension:

Restore Harlem Line service to Chatnam Square with all previous stops. Convert the section between Southeast & Wassaic into doubletrack territory with 3rd rail electrification. The section between Wassaic & Union Station would be single tracked with diesel trains now operating on that branch. This would provide future expansion into Albany Station. 

 

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On 1/19/2023 at 5:46 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

The station is solidly on the NY side of the border, pretty much in the middle of the town. I think it has more to do with the yard being used for NJT operations, combined with the fact that the majority of trains serving that station are non-contracted (to Metro-North) NJT trains.

Some coincidence that the subject matter in this thread is regarding Suffern, and I just came from Suffern yesterday... I thought about taking MNRR straight there to start my trip. but I went with the #165 to Westwood (to the MNRR from there to Spring Valley) instead.... Anyway, yeah, while part of the state line is the southern border of the town, the actual station itself is well north of it.... Same with Pearl River....

Many moons ago, I used to get confused that the trackage that runs along/past where that first stop of the TOR buses pick you up at, led to the MNRR station.... The walk from the actual MNRR station/platform to that bus stop in question (by that other track in question) I find to be a PITA....

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31 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

They finally scrapped 6 M7 cars that were damaged in various accidents over the years. 

Credits to Marc Glucksman - River Rail Photo.

 

Does anyone know what happened to car 7054? Can't find anything online about it.

Do you know if the Hudson Line is finally getting new rail cars? I heard something a few years ago about some coming, but no idea when. 

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15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Do you know if the Hudson Line is finally getting new rail cars? I heard something a few years ago about some coming, but no idea when. 

Yea, there's an order of M9 railcars that were bought with federal funding for both the Metro-North and LIRR and these will be dubbed the M9A which I think will also have some additional features such as powered bathroom doors, stainless steel urinals and Gorilla Glass windows that don't haze, fade or crystallize. 

As for when they're coming, I'm not sure because the current LIRR M9 order is wrapping up soon. Not sure when the M9A's will arrive. At first in 2014, MNR said they would order 188 cars, and then backtracked in Jun 2018 and said they would just overhaul the M3A's and then in Nov 2018, they said they would purchase 170 M9A cars. 

Edited by danielhg121
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6 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Yea, there's an order of M9 railcars that were bought with federal funding for both the Metro-North and LIRR and these will be dubbed the M9A which I think will also have some additional features such as powered bathroom doors, stainless steel urinals and Gorilla Glass windows that don't haze, fade or crystallize. 

As for when they're coming, I'm not sure because the current LIRR M9 order is wrapping up soon. Not sure when the M9A's will arrive. At first in 2014, MNR said they would order 188 cars, and then backtracked in Jun 2018 and said they would just overhaul the M3A's and then in Nov 2018, they said they would purchase 170 M9A cars. 

Yeah I must've had an overhauled train because I normally get one of the old ones that jerk and was surprised to get a newer one today, as it was a semi-express train from Croton Harmon.

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I'm glad to hear that it's opening, but definitely quite disappointed that it's happening while I'm away in London for three months! Hopefully the LIRR concourse doesn't turn into a homeless colony by April.

I guess my surprise run-in with a certain famous London transport personality earlier this month was my consolation prize after all...

Edited by 67thAve
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On 1/23/2023 at 8:46 PM, mine248 said:

Grand central Madison opening Wednesday 

 

I was just wondering about the status for Grand Central yesterday. Glad to see it’s finally being opened in some type of capacity. For now Woodside & Jamaica will be the transfer points for anyone traveling deeper into Queens & Long Island. 

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