Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Metro CSW]

Sweet music to my ears. Who didn't see this coming? Lol.

[LOQV]

I wonder what train cars the mta will assign to the W. Too bad the R40 slants are gone.

[S78 via Hylan]

I wonder what train cars the mta will assign to the W. Too bad the R40 slants are gone.

What it had before it was discontinued-R160's.

[NewFlyer 230]

I wonder what train cars the mta will assign to the W. Too bad the R40 slants are gone.

The same fleet it had before retire. R160s and possibly the occasional R68.

[Wallyhorse]

From the New York Daily News: 

MTA needs $66 Million to get Second Avenue Subway open on time.

Not really a surprise given how much work there still is to be done.

[RTS9000]

I just wish they would adjust service north of 49th St and do something about the and train crowding south of Rector St.

[Eric B]

From the New York Daily News: 

 

MTA needs $66 Million to get Second Avenue Subway open on time.

 

Not really a surprise given how much work there still is to be done.

And that the new service pattern (with the ) would begin with the going to 57th, meaning its already past the start of the pick.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eric B

[Mysterious2train]

From the New York Daily News: 

 

MTA needs $66 Million to get Second Avenue Subway open on time.

 

Not really a surprise given how much work there still is to be done.

 

Board materials (page 128)

 

The MTA is also modifying the 63rd St station renovation contract to add more fire dampers and do maintenance work in the tunnels between Lex Av-63rd St and 57th St-7th Ave. 

 

Discussion: These retroactive modifications are for the furnishing and installation of 36 additional fire dampers and 6 motorized dampers in the duct work of the 63rd St./Lexington Avenue Station and the grouting/leak mitigation of the tunnel south of the 63rd St./Lexington Avenue Station to north of 57th Street and 7th Avenue Station. The contract calls for station reconstruction, as well as rehabilitation and reconstruction of new entrances to allow access from 3rd Avenue; connect new entrances to platforms; utility installation and relocation; and installation of elevators and escalators in the station and entrances.

 

Modification 165: NY State Building Code requires that fire dampers be installed in duct work passing through all fire-rated walls and floors in order to create fire separation. However, the contract documents do not indicate fire dampers at 36 such locations. Additionally, upon review of the station’s HVAC system, it was determined that 6 additional motorized dampers are necessary in order to properly control air flow throughout the station. This modification addresses the furnishing and installation of 36 fire dampers and 6 motorized dampers, each with access doors for maintenance purposes. Work includes demolition of cement block walls in order to enlarge openings, conduit relocation for access, removal and reinstallation of duct work and insulation, additional conduit, wire and associated electrical work to power the motorized dampers, sealing all openings around the modified duct work, furnishing and installation of two ceiling access panels where dampers are located above a finished ceiling and all associated surveying and shop drawing modifications. This modification is the result of an error in design.

 

It was necessary for this work to start immediately in order not to delay the turnover of the affected rooms to the Systems contractor. Approval to process this modification on a retroactive basis was obtained from the MTACC President on March 24, 2015. The Contractor’s proposal was $1,157,247; MTACC’s revised estimate is $985,884. Negotiations resulted in a lump sum price of $927,000, which is considered fair and reasonable. Savings of $230,247 were achieved.

 

Modification 262: The tracks in the tunnel south of the 63rd St./Lexington Avenue Station to north of 57th Street and 7th Avenue Station were built in the late 1970s as part of the "New Routes" 63rd St. Line. These tracks never had regular train service, and have been rarely used, except for occasional re-routes. Currently there is no scheduled revenue service over them however, this will change once SAS service begins with the ‘Q' train scheduled to operate along these tracks and continuing to the new 2nd Avenue Subway. Given the significant water ingress that has been constantly present in this area since its construction, the northbound and southbound tracks in this section have experienced severe degradation.

 

NYC Transit has determined that this tunnel section must be addressed immediately including the replacement of track, tunnel lighting, antenna cable, emergency alarms, emergency telephones, etc. The above track replacement and associated signal equipment work will be addressed through a third-party contract and NYC Transit in-house forces will address the remaining work, all of which must be completed in time for SAS Revenue Service. However, in order to perform this work, the water condition must be addressed first. NYC Transit has directed that the specialized chemical grout (NOH2O) and methods that were successfully employed on other MTACC and NYC Transit projects, be utilized in this tunnel section. Considering the proximity of the 63rd Street Station to this tunnel section, the fact that the grouting subcontractor and Judlau have collaborated on the previously successful NYC Transit applications and are currently performing grouting work in the station, it has been determined that the most expeditious way to address this leak mitigation work is by modification under Contract C-26006.

 

This modification addresses the development of grouting procedures, leak/crack inspections, preparation of concrete surfaces, drilling of grout holes, performance of pre-grouting water injection tests, injection of chemical grouting, patching all drill holes and providing safety, quality and administrative support. Funding for this modification will be provided by NYC Transit. In order to complete the work prior to the start of track work, it was necessary to start immediately.

 

The Contractor was directed to start the work on January 8, 2016. Approval to process this modification on a retroactive basis was subsequently obtained from the MTACC President on February 2, 2016. Additionally, the VP Materiel previously authorized partial payment to the contractor for work performed up to $650,000. The Contractor’s proposal was $6,310,113; MTACC’s revised estimate is $3,532,564. Negotiations resulted in a lump sum price of $3,750,000, which is considered fair and reasonable. Savings of $2,560,113 were achieved. The schedule impact of these modifications is still under review and any schedule adjustments will be addressed in a subsequent modification.

 

When it comes to the tunnels, you really can't help but wonder why the MTA didn't start this repair work until last month. It's not like this is an issue that just appeared out of nowhere one day, right?

Edited February 23, 2016 by Mysterious2train

[Lance]

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say they didn't want to take those tracks out of service and remove that redundancy until absolutely necessary. Of course, that has become a moot point as of late. And I'm probably wrong anyhow.

[Javier]

What I was wondering is if the MTA is still going to have drop-out (Q)'s at 72 St.

[Lance]

Unlikely because they'd have to relay at 96 Street to avoid backing up the line anyway.

[trainfanrod]

I just want to see the go to harlem or bronx in my lifetime or while i can afford to live here

[BDNQ2345]

Yeah it will first BMT headed toward uptown Manhattan and The Bronx

[LTA1992]

Yeah it will first BMT headed toward uptown Manhattan and The Bronx

I think you missed the point he was making.

 

What he means is that he's like to see Phase II complete before he's cadaverriffic or is too poor to live here.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LTA1992

[Javier]

Hopefully it will be while we are all still alive, but if they want to make that connection to the bronx with a under water tunnel, they better do it sooner then later because the cost of those things are going up.

[Wallyhorse]

Bringing over from train discussion:
 

I think that in the long term, stations at 125th St and 138th St / 149th St all need to be built to fully take advantage of the 2nd Avenue capacity. 125th St is probably being built first because it's the cheaper option, it is a universal transfer point, and it can enable the upper Lexington Ave line to be shut down for Fastrak. Plus, the 125th St subway will have to be built to improve crosstown travel in Uptown.

That will be needed for sure as well as the 125th Street crosstown that I would do that includes station stops at Lenox ( / ) and St. Nichols Avenue ( / / / ) before going to a terminal at Broadway-12th Avenue (transfer to ) that I've said many times is needed, especially with by the time such is completed Columbia University's expansion likely complete. 

 

[LTA1992]

 

Bringing over from train discussion:

 

That will be needed for sure as well as the 125th Street crosstown that I would do that includes station stops at Lenox ( / ) and St. Nichols Avenue ( / / / ) before going to a terminal at Broadway-12th Avenue (transfer to ) that I've said many times is needed, especially with by the time such is completed Columbia University's expansion likely complete. 

 

A 125th Street Cross town is nowhere near as important as replacing long gone service along Third Avenue, and providing long promised service to the East Bronx via Lafayette Avenue.

[Wallyhorse]

A 125th Street Cross town is nowhere near as important as replacing long gone service along Third Avenue, and providing long promised service to the East Bronx via Lafayette Avenue.

That is true and I had noted my view in the thread that the SAS Phase 2 should go to 149th/3rd Avenue in the Bronx with 138th Street (transfer to the and 149th Street (transfer to / ), as I would do that with provisions to then run via the former 3rd Avenue El route (either as subway OR elevated, and if elevated with provisions to later if needed have such allow for a rebuild of the Manhattan 3rd Avenue El, even if that is unlikely to ever actually happen) to Gun Hill Road (and another transfer to the / ).  

[LTA1992]

That is true and I had noted my view in the thread that the SAS Phase 2 should go to 149th/3rd Avenue in the Bronx with 138th Street (transfer to the and 149th Street (transfer to / ), as I would do that with provisions to then run via the former 3rd Avenue El route (either as subway OR elevated, and if elevated with provisions to later if needed have such allow for a rebuild of the Manhattan 3rd Avenue El, even if that is unlikely to ever actually happen) to Gun Hill Road (and another transfer to the / ).  

Why replace the old service with the same service when we could expand on that and send the line east via Webster and Allerton Avenues to Co-Op City? Also, unless a design that is quiet and beautiful that blends in with the cityscape is made, elevated lines will not make a return.

[bstar1]

125 St already has crosstown buses.

[MysteriousBtrain]

125 St already has crosstown buses.

So does the and . 125th should be looked into, even if it doesn't reach us in time. It would make upper Manhattan easier to travel and take some crowding off the street.

[bobtehpanda]

Minor tidbits.

 

A 125th Street Cross town is nowhere near as important as replacing long gone service along Third Avenue, and providing long promised service to the East Bronx via Lafayette Avenue.

 

Realistically speaking, because of right-of-way, it would probably be cheaper to route an east Bronx rail line either along the Amtrak corridor or along the Bruckner.

 

Why replace the old service with the same service when we could expand on that and send the line east via Webster and Allerton Avenues to Co-Op City? Also, unless a design that is quiet and beautiful that blends in with the cityscape is made, elevated lines will not make a return.

 

Why as far north as Allerton? Pelham Pkwy is currently a far busier corridor that has lots of room for a right-of-way.

[Union Tpke]

Minor tidbits.

 

 

Realistically speaking, because of right-of-way, it would probably be cheaper to route an east Bronx rail line either along the Amtrak corridor or along the Bruckner.

 

 

Why as far north as Allerton? Pelham Pkwy is currently a far busier corridor that has lots of room for a right-of-way.

 

I would also have a Pelham Parkway route. Also, would the line be useful if it was on the Bruckner instead of on Lafayette Avenue?

[trainfanrod]

I womder if its possible to end the train at or have ir go to 149 grand central then on 3rd ave

[trainfanrod]

i mean grand concourse 149th st then 3rd ave