R179 Discussion Thread

[Railfan 007]

15 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

<4 youtube videos embedded, check post for them>

R160s from the fits very well on the and Lines despite the Car Length, also R179s fits very well on the and Train. I've seen Videos of R160s on the and as well mostly during Women's March Movement.

As you claim that gets r68s is highly unlikely, will still kept its R160s while and will get r68s from the and trains. r68s look horrible in SAS Stations.

Keep in mind that majority of R68s are on the Concourse yard.

10-car R160s ran on the  due to a General Order, where the F couldn't make its way down to Coney Island, and the  did instead, and borrowed sets from the  for service. For regular, daily service, once the R211s come, it will be 8-car trains. Its up to the MTA if they will be 8-car R160s or R179s.

The / ran R160s due to the reasons you explained. They needed extra service due to the march, and the cars had to come from somewhere lol. The Fast Forward plan (whenever it starts) doesn't bother the / for 10 years, so the R68s aren't going anywhere until it time to retire them. They may have some age to them, but they run just fine. Quit hating on them, its starting to get old.

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This map shows that the Bronx is the most neglected borough by the MTA. Not enough subway lines, crappy bus service and no CTBC. Sad.

Also, just to be clear @subwayfan1998, there are only 13 10 car r179's. The C needs at least 18 10 car trains. Unfortunately, the 8 car r179's cannot be converted into 10 car trains. That is why there is a surplus of 8 car trains. As a result, the G will not get any r160's from the F. The F runs 10 car trains. If the F, N/W lose their r160's they will most likely go to the C, B/D, while the N/W gets the r68's. The G will get 8 car trains (r160's or r179's), since the C, which currently has 8 car trains, will become full length with 10 car trains and the G is the only line outside ENY that can accommodate 8 car trains. 

Let's see what happens. There is still strong chance that the A will keep some if not all 10 car r179's once all r211's are in service.

Why would the / lose R160s? Unless the swap between CI/Jamaica happens, its unlikely anything is moving out of Coney. One thing I have yet to understand is why everyone shuffles cars all over the place to yards that don't currently use them. What is wrong with a fleet sitting in its current yard till it retires, unless its for a line planned to have CBTC? 

[SubwayFan3000]

2 minutes ago, Railfan 007 said:

10-car R160s ran on the  due to a General Order, where the F couldn't make its way down to Coney Island, and the  did instead, and borrowed sets from the  for service. For regular, daily service, once the R211s come, it will be 8-car trains. Its up to the MTA if they will be 8-car R160s or R179s.

The / ran R160s due to the reasons you explained. They needed extra service due to the march, and the cars had to come from somewhere lol. The Fast Forward plan (whenever it starts) doesn't bother the / for 10 years, so the R68s aren't going anywhere until it time to retire them. They may have some age to them, but they run just fine. Quit hating on them, its starting to get old.

Why would the / lose R160s? Unless the swap between CI/Jamaica happens, its unlikely anything is moving out of Coney. One thing I have yet to understand is why everyone shuffles cars all over the place to yards that don't currently use them. What is wrong with a fleet sitting in its current yard till it retires, unless its for a line planned to have CBTC? 

I Understand and Agree, Why would and lose R160s?

[Jemorie]

27 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

r68s look horrible in SAS Stations.

I honestly find this to be a pretty ignorant statement. SAS is only three stops and doesn't really alleviate the Lexington Avenue Line much anyway so. And even if it does, it will not stop transit from running R68s on the . If they can run on the  and , then they can run on the  too.

[SubwayFan3000]

Just now, Jemorie said:

I honestly find this to be a pretty ignorant statement. SAS is only three stops and doesn't really alleviate the Lexington Avenue Line much anyway so. And even if it does, it will not stop transit from running R68s on the . If they can run on the  and , then they can run on the  too.

I Never seen a R68 since 2016 when the returns, I Recently See more r68s on and than i see on the also BTW i take and Trains Everyday. R68s look old and dirty as F**k! why would the and lose R160s just like what @Railfan 007 Said

[W4ST]

5 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

I Never seen a R68 since 2016 when the returns, I Recently See more r68s on and than i see on the also BTW i take and Trains Everyday. R68s look old and dirty as F**k! why would the and lose R160s just like what @Railfan 007 Said

When Queens Blvd gets CBTC, the  train will have to get NTT cars (probably R160s). This means it will have to exchange cars with another line, which will likely be the . They could get R46s this way. If the R211s come in, this exchange might not need to happen, but another change could push R68s onto the . When 8th Avenue gets CBTC, R68s will still be running, because the R211s won't retire them. The  often run on 8th Avenue for service changes (at least the  does, but the  might in an emergency), so the , and probably the , will need NTT cars too. They will have to exchange cars with another line. They would probably exchange with the  and give R68s to those lines, because the  never have a reason to run on any of the lines that are getting CBTC in the next 5 years (8th Ave, Queens Blvd, Crosstown, Culver). 

Edited May 2, 2019 by W4ST

[SubwayFan3000]

2 minutes ago, W4ST said:

When Queens Blvd gets CBTC, the  train will have to get NTT cars (probably R160s). This means it will have to exchange cars with another line, which will likely be the . They could get R46s this way. If the R211s come in, this exchange might not need to happen, but another change could push R68s onto the . When 8th Avenue gets CBTC, R68s will still be running, because the R211s won't retire them. The  often run on 8th Avenue for service changes (at least the  does, but the  might in an emergency), so the , and probably the , will need NTT cars too. They will have to exchange cars with another line. They would probably exchange with the  and give R68s to those lines, because the  never have a reason to run on any of the lines that are getting CBTC in the next 5 years (8th Ave, Queens Blvd, Crosstown, Culver). 

Just like what @Railfan 007 said Why would the and lose R160s? Unless the swap between CI/Jamaica happens, its unlikely anything is moving out of Coney. One thing I have yet to understand is why everyone shuffles cars all over the place to yards that don't currently use them. What is wrong with a fleet sitting in its current yard till it retires, unless its for a line planned to have CBTC? The big idea floating around is the and will lose their R160s to Jamaica Yard and receive R46s that are currently running on the because of Queens Blvd CBTC. However, my opinion is the R46s currently in Jamaica yard will stay there till the base order of R211s shows up, so nothing needs to be shuffled around. Why send R46s to CI to fill Jamaica with R160s, then move some R160s back after the base order arrives? That seems a bit excessive. In time between now and a little more than a year when the production R211s start showing up, we will all figure out the answer for this. Till then, its a guessing game.  

doesn't actually run on 8th Avenue Lines, and Runs on 6th Avenue Lines. and will get R160s from the than they will get

[subwaycommuter1983]

15 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

I honestly find this to be a pretty ignorant statement. SAS is only three stops and doesn't really alleviate the Lexington Avenue Line much anyway so. And even if it does, it will not stop transit from running R68s on the . If they can run on the  and , then they can run on the  too.

Exactly. The r68's have operated in SAS whenever the W gets rerouted due to track work. If I'm not mistaken, the Q occasionally borrows r68's, or r46's during rush hour. 

[SubwayFan3000]

1 minute ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Just like what @Railfan 007 said Why would the and lose R160s? Unless the swap between CI/Jamaica happens, its unlikely anything is moving out of Coney. One thing I have yet to understand is why everyone shuffles cars all over the place to yards that don't currently use them. What is wrong with a fleet sitting in its current yard till it retires, unless its for a line planned to have CBTC? The big idea floating around is the and will lose their R160s to Jamaica Yard and receive R46s that are currently running on the because of Queens Blvd CBTC. However, my opinion is the R46s currently in Jamaica yard will stay there till the base order of R211s shows up, so nothing needs to be shuffled around. Why send R46s to CI to fill Jamaica with R160s, then move some R160s back after the base order arrives? That seems a bit excessive. In time between now and a little more than a year when the production R211s start showing up, we will all figure out the answer for this. Till then, its a guessing game.  

doesn't actually run on 8th Avenue Lines, and Runs on 6th Avenue Lines. and will get R160s from the than they will get

Than they will get it from the and

[subwaycommuter1983]

44 minutes ago, Railfan 007 said:

10-car R160s ran on the  due to a General Order, where the F couldn't make its way down to Coney Island, and the  did instead, and borrowed sets from the  for service. For regular, daily service, once the R211s come, it will be 8-car trains. Its up to the MTA if they will be 8-car R160s or R179s.

The / ran R160s due to the reasons you explained. They needed extra service due to the march, and the cars had to come from somewhere lol. The Fast Forward plan (whenever it starts) doesn't bother the / for 10 years, so the R68s aren't going anywhere until it time to retire them. They may have some age to them, but they run just fine. Quit hating on them, its starting to get old.

Why would the / lose R160s? Unless the swap between CI/Jamaica happens, its unlikely anything is moving out of Coney. One thing I have yet to understand is why everyone shuffles cars all over the place to yards that don't currently use them. What is wrong with a fleet sitting in its current yard till it retires, unless its for a line planned to have CBTC? 

No one is hating on the r68's. Honestly, the r68's are my favorite subway cars. But let's be realistic, the r68's won't be compatible with 8th Avenue CTBC.

Lets say the B/D trains keep the r68's until retirement. Lets pretend it's 2023, 8th Avenue CTBC is already completed. The B/D still has still r68's. What would happen if God forbid someone gets hit by a train at 42nd Street - Bryant Park (6th Avenue)?? Where would B/D trains be rerouted?? 8th Avenue?? Nope. Why?? Because only r160's, r211's, and r179's can run on 8th Avenue. Again this is a possible scenario 5 years from now.

Think about it guys.

Edited May 2, 2019 by subwaycommuter1983

[subwaycommuter1983]

47 minutes ago, W4ST said:

When Queens Blvd gets CBTC, the  train will have to get NTT cars (probably R160s). This means it will have to exchange cars with another line, which will likely be the . They could get R46s this way. If the R211s come in, this exchange might not need to happen, but another change could push R68s onto the . When 8th Avenue gets CBTC, R68s will still be running, because the R211s won't retire them. The  often run on 8th Avenue for service changes (at least the  does, but the  might in an emergency), so the , and probably the , will need NTT cars too. They will have to exchange cars with another line. They would probably exchange with the  and give R68s to those lines, because the  never have a reason to run on any of the lines that are getting CBTC in the next 5 years (8th Ave, Queens Blvd, Crosstown, Culver). 

QBL CTBC and 8th Avenue CTBC will be completed within the same time frame and a good amount of r211's will be in service by that time. The R will most likely be 100% r 211's. The A will get a good chunk of the r211's, possibly displacing the 10 car r179's to the C. 

Kawasaki has been doing a better job with the r211's than Bombardier did with the r179's.

[Railfan 007]

2 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

No one is hating on the r68's.

Did you read what I quoted? Seems like you missed what I quoted here is the piece I was referring to:

1 hour ago, subwayfan1998 said:

r68s look horrible in SAS Stations.

This isn't the first time subwayfan1998 has said this, so please read the quotes to understand why I said what I said my post.

5 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

But let's be realistic, the r68's won't be compatible with 8th Avenue CTBC.

Lets say the B/D trains keep the r68's until retirement. Lets pretend it's 2023, 8th Avenue CTBC is already completed. The B/D still has still r68's. What would happen if God forbid someone gets hit by a train at 42nd Street - Bryant Park?? Where would B/D trains be rerouted?? 8th Avenue?? Nope. Why?? Because only r160's, r211's, and r179's can run on 8th Avenue. Again this is a possible scenario 5 years from now.

Obviously. It's a SMEE, not an NTT train that can be equipped with CBTC equipment.

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running. R179s have already visited Canarsie Yard for a wash, hell even 32/42s were a common sight to see heading to/from Canarsie Yard during off-peak for a wash, and they are not CBTC-equipped for the . The garbage train on the ? A set of 62As, and the entire  line has CBTC active. So yes, 68/As should be able to run on 8th Avenue after CBTC has been installed and activated, especially during emergencies. Trains not equipped with CBTC still have to use the track anyways, whether they are revenue service trains or maintenance trains.

Lastly, what is CTBC? For someone who quotes Communications-Based Train Control over and over again, and uses it as their evidence to support their point constantly, you would think you can spell the acronym correctly by now. 

[SubwayFan3000]

1 minute ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Exactly. The r68's have operated in SAS whenever the W gets rerouted due to track work. If I'm not mistaken, the Q occasionally borrows r68's, or r46's during rush hour. 

 

1 minute ago, Railfan 007 said:

Did you read what I quoted? Seems like you missed what I quoted here is the piece I was referring to:

This isn't the first time subwayfan1998 has said this, so please read the quotes to understand why I said what I said my post.

Obviously. It's a SMEE, not an NTT train that can be equipped with CBTC equipment.

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running. R179s have already visited Canarsie Yard for a wash, hell even 32/42s were a common sight to see heading to/from Canarsie Yard during off-peak for a wash, and they are not CBTC-equipped for the . The garbage train on the ? A set of 62As, and the entire  line has CBTC active. So yes, 68/As should be able to run on 8th Avenue after CBTC has been installed and activated, especially during emergencies. Trains not equipped with CBTC still have to use the track anyways, whether they are revenue service trains or maintenance trains.

Lastly, what is CTBC? For someone who quotes Communications-Based Train Control over and over again, and uses it as their evidence to support their point constantly, you would think you can spell the acronym correctly by now. 

You're Right, 100%! You know better than me and @subwaycommuter1983 many those on the Forum.

[SubwayFan3000]

3 minutes ago, Railfan 007 said:

Did you read what I quoted? Seems like you missed what I quoted here is the piece I was referring to:

This isn't the first time subwayfan1998 has said this, so please read the quotes to understand why I said what I said my post.

Obviously. It's a SMEE, not an NTT train that can be equipped with CBTC equipment.

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running. R179s have already visited Canarsie Yard for a wash, hell even 32/42s were a common sight to see heading to/from Canarsie Yard during off-peak for a wash, and they are not CBTC-equipped for the . The garbage train on the ? A set of 62As, and the entire  line has CBTC active. So yes, 68/As should be able to run on 8th Avenue after CBTC has been installed and activated, especially during emergencies. Trains not equipped with CBTC still have to use the track anyways, whether they are revenue service trains or maintenance trains.

Lastly, what is CTBC? For someone who quotes Communications-Based Train Control over and over again, and uses it as their evidence to support their point constantly, you would think you can spell the acronym correctly by now. 

Only thing i don't like the R68s it is not because works fine, it because it is dirty and being outdated. I've used to like R68s and R46s more than i like R32s, R40s and R42s. Thanks God R40s are not anymore because they look Scary As F**k especially the Slants and the Doors going to another Cars.

[subwaycommuter1983]

20 minutes ago, Railfan 007 said:

Did you read what I quoted? Seems like you missed what I quoted here is the piece I was referring to:

This isn't the first time subwayfan1998 has said this, so please read the quotes to understand why I said what I said my post.

Obviously. It's a SMEE, not an NTT train that can be equipped with CBTC equipment.

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running. R179s have already visited Canarsie Yard for a wash, hell even 32/42s were a common sight to see heading to/from Canarsie Yard during off-peak for a wash, and they are not CBTC-equipped for the . The garbage train on the ? A set of 62As, and the entire  line has CBTC active. So yes, 68/As should be able to run on 8th Avenue after CBTC has been installed and activated, especially during emergencies. Trains not equipped with CBTC still have to use the track anyways, whether they are revenue service trains or maintenance trains.

Lastly, what is CTBC? For someone who quotes Communications-Based Train Control over and over again, and uses it as their evidence to support their point constantly, you would think you can spell the acronym correctly by now. 

Huge misconception!! Lol! I'm glad you clarify that info. As for the acronym typo, it's just saved on my phone. My bad. Lol!! I'll fix that on my phone. 

[Lawrence St]

35 minutes ago, Railfan 007 said:

Did you read what I quoted? Seems like you missed what I quoted here is the piece I was referring to:

This isn't the first time subwayfan1998 has said this, so please read the quotes to understand why I said what I said my post.

Obviously. It's a SMEE, not an NTT train that can be equipped with CBTC equipment.

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running. R179s have already visited Canarsie Yard for a wash, hell even 32/42s were a common sight to see heading to/from Canarsie Yard during off-peak for a wash, and they are not CBTC-equipped for the . The garbage train on the ? A set of 62As, and the entire  line has CBTC active. So yes, 68/As should be able to run on 8th Avenue after CBTC has been installed and activated, especially during emergencies. Trains not equipped with CBTC still have to use the track anyways, whether they are revenue service trains or maintenance trains.

Lastly, what is CTBC? For someone who quotes Communications-Based Train Control over and over again, and uses it as their evidence to support their point constantly, you would think you can spell the acronym correctly by now. 

However you forget that in order for a non-CBTC train to enter CBTC territory, that whole block, for example, has to stop and stay. That means that you hold the whole line up, since IIRC the absolute block is from Bway Jct to Rockaway.

[Railfan 007]

38 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

You're Right, 100%! You know better than me and @subwaycommuter1983 many those on the Forum.

Its not that I know better lol. I have learned a lot through studying system, reading committee meeting pdfs, (I skim them unless something catches my eye that I like. They are wild long lmao) and from touring the system as a hobby. You live, you learn, you grow. There is always more to learn, and we all have to be open minded to it. Not everything will be correct, but we have to learn to differentiate what makes sense and what doesn't, and why such things the MTA does/doesn't do are the way they are, and remember to add a mix of common sense. That's all lol.

35 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Only thing i don't like the R68s it is not because works fine, it because it is dirty and being outdated. I've used to like R68s and R46s more than i like R32s, R40s and R42s. Thanks God R40s are not anymore because they look Scary As F**k especially the Slants and the Doors going to another Cars.

A thorough clean can change that. Like anything that needs maintenance to run optimally, over time it needs a bit of TLC. Hopefully the Deep Cleaning Program can encompass the entire fleet, and in the future, it gets rolled into the SMS program for subway cars. Plus, once the R211s come in, the R160s will be outdated lol. Are you going to dislike them then too? When the 68s were built, they were built for the needs of that time in the 1980s. They still serve them well today, just not as well as other cars (dwell times are higher with them compared to 60' cars). Still, they serve there purpose, and will continue to do so for the next 10-15 years.

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

However you forget that in order for a non-CBTC train to enter CBTC territory, that whole block, for example, has to stop and stay. That means that you hold the whole line up, since IIRC the absolute block is from Bway Jct to Rockaway.

With the amount of signals you can see on the L from Broadway Junction to Livonia Av, I doubt its one big block. It also means there would need to be a 10 min gap in service, which I know is untrue, as I remember one day I got off at Canarsie Rockaway Pkwy and a 32 was pulling into Canarsie yard like it was running right behind. It only happened once, so I'm not sure, so someone who has inside knowledge would need to clarify further.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Railfan 007 said:

Does the  run on 8th Avenue between 59th St and Jay St? No they do not.

Do the 68/As need to leave the  then? No they do not, as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC. 

In case an issue happens on 6th Avenue, and s have no choice but to run via 8th Avenue, can they still run via 8th Avenue? Hell yes. A MAJOR misconception of CBTC is MTA is installing it in a way that prevents trains that are not CBTC-compatible from running.

This is assuming that the MTA continues with auxiliary wayside for Fast Forward CBTC installs rather than install CBTC on work vehicles...

Both Andy Byford and Pete Tomlin have done CBTC installs without AWS in Toronto and London and elsewhere and they even wrote a white paper about how to do it.

If they do that here as well, then the and will need NTTs to facilitate reroutes.

[happy283]

3010-3019 back in revenue service

at 42 St headed to Far Rockaway

[trainfan22]

R179 MDBF for Mar 2019: 91,179

 

 

 

[SubwayFan3000]

20 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

This is assuming that the MTA continues with auxiliary wayside for Fast Forward CBTC installs rather than install CBTC on work vehicles...

Both Andy Byford and Pete Tomlin have done CBTC installs without AWS in Toronto and London and elsewhere and they even wrote a white paper about how to do it.

If they do that here as well, then the and will need NTTs to facilitate reroutes.

but still R68s won't leave from the and train as they won't be affected by 8th Avenue CBTC.  if there is a reroute maybe due to signal issues yes, but anyways R68s won't go away from and Train soon until 6th Avenue CBTC is installed around mid to late 2020's.

[Metro CSW]

On 5/1/2019 at 4:14 PM, Lawrence St said:

Wait the and are suppose to be getting CBTC? Never knew that.

One thing I never understood is why they dont test CBTC on the 42nd St .

 

On 5/1/2019 at 4:18 PM, subwayfan1998 said:

from Jay St - Metrotech to Lefferts Boulevard and Far Rockaway and Rockaway will be getting CBTC in next 5 years.

Same bro don't know why they don't test CBTC on the 42nd Street

 

On 5/1/2019 at 4:50 PM, TheNewYorkElevated said:

Both of the yards that 42nd Street Shuttle is a part of is R62As and those aren't getting NTTs anytime soon. The  is likely waiting for the R262s to come in to begin CBTC installation on that line. 

Gentlemen.....

Please give me a fruitless, logical reasoning for why would CBTC hold any obligational demand on a route serving two stations only with it's own tunnels crossing midtown 1/2 mile......???

 

I'm looking at the track map of said tunnels and wondering WHY!?!?

[R68OnBroadway]

Given that it will be reduced to two tracks soon with trains lengthened, I think the MTA should just straight-up automate the 42nd st shuttle once NTTs arrive.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Metro CSW said:

 

 

Gentlemen.....

Please give me a fruitless, logical reasoning for why would CBTC hold any obligational demand on a route serving two stations only with it's own tunnels crossing midtown 1/2 mile......???

 

I'm looking at the track map of said tunnels and wondering WHY!?!?

Because those operators can be better used elsewhere then stay on a line looping back and forth when a computer can do it for them.

[Lawrence St]

Also my apologies I could have sworn this was the CBTC thread...

[subwaycommuter1983]

23 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Also my apologies I could have sworn this was the CBTC thread...

We have been mentioning CBTC in relation to car assignments and possible fleet swap, which directly involves the r179's, since 8th Avenue CBTC will be compatible with the r179's plus other NTT's, and I think the MTA should consider making the r179's compatible with other CBTC's along the B division to allow flexibility.