BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

All the MTA needs to do is get like 50 plain clothes transit cops and have them ride the buses with the drivers throughout the route. One cop per bus. Anyone that gets on and doesn't pay, just kick them off and keep the bus moving. Then when it's time for the cop to finish their shift they'll ticket the next person that doesn't pay. Once people see that and its CONSISTENT enforcement, I betcha the farebeating will significantly decrease. 

The key word is consistent enforcement. It seems like the NYPD will often do a round and then disappear. In 2019 I think they were stationed at St George Ferry to catch fare evaders. Yet now they are gone again. You are absolutely right, once people see that there is consequences for just strolling in, many will choose to pay (or not ride). There is no reason why the fare beating on SI is so bad, worse than any other boro, except maybe the Bronx.

I think cops should give as many ticket as they can. Only if they are in the process of giving a ticket should they kick all the other fare evader off. They could even do it one route at a time S46 Sept, S74 in Oct etc...

Let me tell you those police will be busy... Like I said before, NYPD could literally go ANYWHERE in the island and they could catch somebody not paying, A couple of relatively well off teenagers got on the S79 today without paying and they took it ONE STOP. This is not even an issue of poverty anymore, its everywhere, every race, every age group. 

Something needs to be done about this.... and this is just the bus front, don't even get me started with the subway

[checkmatechamp13]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:35 PM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Idk but something needs to skip Narrows and something needs to terminate Downtown. 

Or just run the SIM34 in place of the SIM3C (with a branch to Port Richmond). Have a SIM32C to Travis (also covering the SIM2 off-peak riders who lost service there). Divide the SIM1C into the SIM1 (extended to 14th Street off-peak), and the SIM10. 

On 12/18/2021 at 4:30 PM, NBTA said:

3C is probably well equipped for that.

Terminate at Union Square, skip Narrows entirely.

Then it wouldn't really be a derivative of the SIM3...or warrant a C, since that implies Downtown/Midtown combination.

On 12/18/2021 at 6:41 PM, JAzumah said:

Downtown only is the kiss of death outside of rush hours.

That's not true. All things considered, the SIM2 didn't perform that poorly on the weekends. The reason they cut it was because they wanted to find resources to create the SIM33C.

On 12/18/2021 at 8:40 PM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Yeah i was chatting when I said that. But seriously the SIM33C needs to skip Narrows. Have the 3C serve so it can gain additional riders. Gannon and Richmond are already heavy enough for the 33C off peak. It'll help balance the loads.

Its funny because the 33C sign isn't even programmed to say "via Narrows Rd". Only the SIM3C has that. 

As I said, new off-peak routes should absolutely be Downtown-only or Midtown-only. If someone feels that strongly about transferring, then they can likely drive to a route that serves the part of Manhattan they are interested in. But Staten Island coverage is more important considering we have fewer options on this end of the commute.

That being said, the original plan for the SIM33C when it was first proposed (and even the SIM3C for that matter) was to have it bypass Narrows Road.

[NBTA]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Or just run the SIM34 in place of the SIM3C (with a branch to Port Richmond). Have a SIM32C to Travis (also covering the SIM2 off-peak riders who lost service there). Divide the SIM1C into the SIM1 (extended to 14th Street off-peak), and the SIM10. 

Then it wouldn't really be a derivative of the SIM3...or warrant a C, since that implies Downtown/Midtown combination.

That's not true. All things considered, the SIM2 didn't perform that poorly on the weekends. The reason they cut it was because they wanted to find resources to create the SIM33C.

As I said, new off-peak routes should absolutely be Downtown-only or Midtown-only. If someone feels that strongly about transferring, then they can likely drive to a route that serves the part of Manhattan they are interested in. But Staten Island coverage is more important considering we have fewer options on this end of the commute.

That being said, the original plan for the SIM33C when it was first proposed (and even the SIM3C for that matter) was to have it bypass Narrows Road.

Didn’t it initially bypass Narrows Road anyway? (I had a couple of 33Cs just straight up skip Narrows in the beginning of the Route creation).

[Lawrence St]

The problem with off peak service in Staten Island with the C variants is they have one route doing way to much.

[JAzumah]

8 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's not true. All things considered, the SIM2 didn't perform that poorly on the weekends. The reason they cut it was because they wanted to find resources to create the SIM33C.

Request an on-off count by stop from Operations Planning for the SIM1C, SIM3C, and SIM33C on Saturdays and Sundays only by stop and let's see what it says.

If they don't have one for those routes yet, a Saturday and Sunday on-off count by stop for the X1, X10, and X17 will suffice. We can answer this question with hard data.

If the MTA implements an Adjusted Weekday express bus schedule (and publish it), they should be able to trim enough service to operate the SIM2 from the savings.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

11 hours ago, Calvin said:

The new Prevosts that are in the process of delivery are placed on hold. This is because of cramping in the seating area for passengers, finding a way to have more space on the bus. 

https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/12/19/22840484/new-mta-express-bus-rollout-stalled-by-leg-room-complaints

These new Prevosts man. From the shitty rattling, to the crammed seats. Literally just lipstick on a pig. I'm disappointed because the 2015s are much better, and the 2012s are even better (I just don't like that ugly rear design on the 2012s). 

Its really hilarious how in 2021 we gotta delay buses because passenger comfort has completely went out of the window. Prevost, WTF were yall thinking? MTA, as hard as yall go to inspect and get these buses approved...how did legroom just completely go over yall heads? 

VanHool would NEVER...(I hope hope hope this can open the door to VanHool for future orders)

So I'm curious now if they are willing to sacrifice 4 seats? That's really the only legit feasible solution to actually have a change. The first two is chained off so the total has been 53 for quite some time. The average bus only gets filled to about 35-45 seats per bus. It only makes sense to then take the existing fleet and have them modified as more buses come in with the modifications. 

 

Peep the article though...

"Cipriano said the buses are the same size as the ones they are replacing but added that a previous redesign resulted in less room for seats to make more room for riders using wheelchairs" (manipulative) 

"Cipriano said the space issues are limited to the first seven to eight rows on the driver’s side of the bus." (FALSE)

"Cipriano declined to comment specifically on what changes could be considered for the buses, saying the MTA and Prevost engineers will “try and get this rectified.”" (there's literally only one solution Cipriano...)

(MTA Rider) said a “tweak” of a “few more inches” would be enough to make her more comfortable on the new buses. “Now when I’m waiting for the buses, I’m just crossing my fingers,” she said. “And I’m thinking, ‘Please, let this be an old bus.’” (NOW people prefer the old buses...just a year ago they were crying to get them replaced)

[paulrivera]

15 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

All the MTA needs to do is get like 50 plain clothes transit cops and have them ride the buses with the drivers throughout the route. One cop per bus. Anyone that gets on and doesn't pay, just kick them off and keep the bus moving.

Like the security guy that kicked someone off the R32 retirement trip for not wearing a mask? (2nd tweet in thread)

 

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

VanHool would NEVER...(I hope hope hope this can open the door to VanHool for future orders)

Don't hold your breath. Vanhool doesn't make transit spec 45ft coaches in the US. You won't see them entering that market any time soon. I don't think they even make their A-series buses in the states anymore.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Cait Sith

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

 

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

 

I don't think a non paying rider would be resistant if a cop caught them not paying. They would much rather prefer to get off the bus rather than receive a $100 ticket. 

8 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Don't hold your breath. Vanhool doesn't make transit spec 45ft coaches in the US. You won't see them entering that market any time soon. I don't think they even make their A-series buses in the states anymore.

I always wondered, what's the difference between a "transit" spec and a "charter" spec? Academy, North Fork, Coach USA, Bolt Bus, Megabus all use these buses. These buses don't seem to be any different from the current express bus spec wise other than the front door not being split and the addition of a bathroom. 

[checkmatechamp13]

7 hours ago, NBTA said:

Didn’t it initially bypass Narrows Road anyway? (I had a couple of 33Cs just straight up skip Narrows in the beginning of the Route creation).

Inbound or outbound? Outbound it's happened frequently, but inbound they always stop (the schedule was changed to add those Narrows Road timepoints a couple of weeks before implementation, so who knows maybe they trained the B/O with that route)

[Cait Sith]

4 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

 

I don't think a non paying rider would be resistant if a cop caught them not paying. They would much rather prefer to get off the bus rather than receive a $100 ticket. 

I always wondered, what's the difference between a "transit" spec and a "charter" spec? Academy, North Fork, Coach USA, Bolt Bus, Megabus all use these buses. These buses don't seem to be any different from the current express bus spec wise other than the front door not being split and the addition of a bathroom. 

Transit spec = made to specifications for transit agencies.

For Vanhool's case, they'd have to redesign the front for the destination sign(you already know MTA nor NJT will take that small side sign) much like how Prevost did, and redesign the door side for split doors. They'll then have to submit said bus to Altoona's test center in Pennsylvania to see if it'll past the tests.

The C-series buses have been showcased at various agencies(most notably, MTA, AC Transit, NJT) but not accepted or ordered because they(Vanhool) do not spec them to transit specifications.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

4 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Transit spec = made to specifications for transit agencies.

For Vanhool's case, they'd have to redesign the front for the destination sign(you already know MTA nor NJT will take that small side sign) much like how Prevost did, and redesign the door side for split doors. They'll then have to submit said bus to Altoona's test center in Pennsylvania to see if it'll past the tests.

The C-series buses have been showcased at various agencies(most notably, MTA, AC Transit, NJT) but not accepted or ordered because they(Vanhool) do not spec them to transit specifications.

Oh so basically VanHool doesn't make customized buses, got it. They literally only pump out one type of bus and that's what you're gonna use. 

 

You said they won't enter that market any time soon...why is that? They have so much potential. Literally Prevost is getting by because they're lowballing their orders to everyone and giving everyone rushed garbage. 

[Cait Sith]

1 minute ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Oh so basically VanHool doesn't make customized buses, got it. They literally only pump out one type of bus and that's what you're gonna use. 

 

You said they won't enter that market any time soon...why is that? They have so much potential. Literally Prevost is getting by because they're lowballing their orders to everyone and giving everyone rushed garbage. 

They make customized buses, they just don't make transit spec'd buses.

Vanhool has been in the coach market for years and years. They've dipped their toes into the waters of transit agencies years ago, but they won't comply with the specs requested, hence why they won't enter the market. The only agency that gave them a chance was AC Transit, with a bus that basically killed any chance of them making an impact in the transit scene, the C3045.



Vanhool has been killing it in the OTR/charter market. I'm almost certain that they don't need the transit market to stay afloat, especially since Vanhool is a worldwide company.

[NBTA]

28 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Inbound or outbound? Outbound it's happened frequently, but inbound they always stop (the schedule was changed to add those Narrows Road timepoints a couple of weeks before implementation, so who knows maybe they trained the B/O with that route)

Outbound.

[trainfan22]

Today for the first time in a while I fanned the B41 from Downtown to Flatbush (use to do this on fridays all the time during my high school years) was a pretty decent ride, had an Orion NG. 

 

 

Today for the first time ever I seen an B41 short turn to Atlantic Ave. Also short turns at Empire Blvd seem a lot more popular than they was back then. Was two FLA buses on layover at Empire Blvd, never seen that before.

 

 

Parkside to Church Ave is still as congested as it was back then lol

Edited December 20, 2021 by trainfan22

[Railfanner Mario]

6 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

These new Prevosts man. From the shitty rattling, to the crammed seats. Literally just lipstick on a pig. I'm disappointed because the 2015s are much better, and the 2012s are even better (I just don't like that ugly rear design on the 2012s). 

Its really hilarious how in 2021 we gotta delay buses because passenger comfort has completely went out of the window. Prevost, WTF were yall thinking? MTA, as hard as yall go to inspect and get these buses approved...how did legroom just completely go over yall heads? 

VanHool would NEVER...(I hope hope hope this can open the door to VanHool for future orders)

So I'm curious now if they are willing to sacrifice 4 seats? That's really the only legit feasible solution to actually have a change. The first two is chained off so the total has been 53 for quite some time. The average bus only gets filled to about 35-45 seats per bus. It only makes sense to then take the existing fleet and have them modified as more buses come in with the modifications. 

 

Peep the article though...

"Cipriano said the buses are the same size as the ones they are replacing but added that a previous redesign resulted in less room for seats to make more room for riders using wheelchairs" (manipulative) 

"Cipriano said the space issues are limited to the first seven to eight rows on the driver’s side of the bus." (FALSE)

"Cipriano declined to comment specifically on what changes could be considered for the buses, saying the MTA and Prevost engineers will “try and get this rectified.”" (there's literally only one solution Cipriano...)

(MTA Rider) said a “tweak” of a “few more inches” would be enough to make her more comfortable on the new buses. “Now when I’m waiting for the buses, I’m just crossing my fingers,” she said. “And I’m thinking, ‘Please, let this be an old bus.’” (NOW people prefer the old buses...just a year ago they were crying to get them replaced)

“Please let this be an old bus.” Man some people….Also to hold off deliveries because of a few seats?!?!? Since when did “seats” stop the  from bringing buses into the city?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, Railfanner Mario said:

“Please let this be an old bus.” Man some people….Also to hold off deliveries because of a few seats?!?!? Since when did “seats” stop the  from bringing buses into the city?

Your ignorance about the situation is evident. It's not just a few seats. It is several rows, and yes, I asked that they halt the order because of the amount of complaints from actual commuters that use these buses and have no legroom. The  should've dealt with the seat spacing situation BEFORE ordering these buses. The interior space is MUCH smaller than the old buses and thus there is a lot less legroom, even for people that are 5'0", 5'2", 5'7", etc. This rider in my group is 5'7" and there is barely any legroom, so the order will remain halted until they fix this mess. Simple as that. We have people that are elderly or disabled and they cannot sit with their legs crushed for hours just because the  couldn't bother to address something as basic as legroom. They also changed the seats themselves, which are terrible.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[biGC323232]

57 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Your ignorance about the situation is evident. It's not just a few seats. It is several rows, and yes, I asked that they halt the order because of the amount of complaints from actual commuters that use these buses and have no legroom. The  should've dealt with the seat spacing situation BEFORE ordering these buses. The interior space is MUCH smaller than the old buses and thus there is a lot less legroom, even for people that are 5'0", 5'2", 5'7", etc. This rider in my group is 5'7" and there is barely any legroom, so the order will remain halted until they fix this mess. Simple as that. We have people that are elderly or disabled and they cannot sit with their legs crushed for hours just because the  couldn't bother to address something as basic as legroom. They also changed the seats themselves, which are terrible.

And to me thats also dangerous to have that lack of legroom...God forbid one of those buses get into an accident...Even a minor accident will result into something serious for a passenger....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, biGC323232 said:

And to me thats also dangerous to have that lack of legroom...God forbid one of those buses get into an accident...Even a minor accident will result into something serious for a passenger....

It is. Even the wheelchair areas have less space, so someone in a wheelchair can barely get in and out in the event of an emergency. They've mentioned the need for more space for the wheelchair areas twice in our discussions over the last few weeks and I get that because they need to be able to get in and out, but we have plenty of people that take these buses that are technically disabled, but may not look it and don't use a wheelchair. I have people in the group that have arthritis, leg issues, knee issues and so on, and the lack of legroom leaves them in constant pain for the entire trip. Even able bodied people complain about how bad their back feels after riding.

When I sit on these buses, if I don't sit in the wheelchair area, the only way I can sit is if I am sitting "perfectly", and that means having my legs partially into the aisle just to sit, and that's without anyone actually reclining. If someone sat in front of me to recline, I could not sit in the seat. It's one thing to fan these buses for a trip and another to use them daily, and as I said to José during our phone call for this story, we're stuck with these buses for the next 13, 14, 15 years and they need to get this right. They are not good from a functional standpoint in any way shape or form when we're talking about sitting for the long trips that we endure.  If you can get around the leg issue, you've got the seatbelts digging into your back.

There are also lots of complaints about people tripping and falling just boarding these buses because of the poor design with the steps, which I also mentioned. You have the OMNY reader right there and then the narrow aisle. The MCIs are narrow too don't get me wrong, but these buses are a hazard and if someone seriously hurts themselves, they will definitely be looking to sue the  and rightfully so. It's clear that no one actually checked these buses out before having them go into service.

The operators that I know also complain about them. They are constantly having to pull these buses from service for one thing or another, and not just ordinary things that occur with new fleet either. 

The only solution I see is to eliminate a few rows, which I have suggested twice now and they've thanked me for the suggestion, but there is no other way this is going to work.

 

[biGC323232]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It is. Even the wheelchair areas have less space, so someone in a wheelchair can barely get in and out in the event of an emergency. They've mentioned the need for more space for the wheelchair areas twice in our discussions over the last few weeks and I get that because they need to be able to get in and out, but we have plenty of people that take these buses that are technically disabled, but may not look it and don't use a wheelchair. I have people in the group that have arthritis, leg issues, knee issues and so on, and the lack of legroom leaves them in constant pain for the entire trip. Even able bodied people complain about how bad their back feels after riding.

When I sit on these buses, if I don't sit in the wheelchair area, the only way I can sit is if I am sitting "perfectly", and that means having my legs partially into the aisle just to sit, and that's without anyone actually reclining. If someone sat in front of me to recline, I could not sit in the seat. It's one thing to fan these buses for a trip and another to use them daily, and as I said to José during our phone call for this story, we're stuck with these buses for the next 13, 14, 15 years and they need to get this right. They are not good from a functional standpoint in any way shape or form when we're talking about sitting for the long trips that we endure.  If you can get around the leg issue, you've got the seatbelts digging into your back.

There are also lots of complaints about people tripping and falling just boarding these buses because of the poor design with the steps, which I also mentioned. You have the OMNY reader right there and then the narrow aisle. The MCIs are narrow too don't get me wrong, but these buses are a hazard and if someone seriously hurts themselves, they will definitely be looking to sue the  and rightfully so. It's clear that no one actually checked these buses out before having them go into service.

The operators that I know also complain about them. They are constantly having to pull these buses from service for one thing or another, and not just ordinary things that occur with new fleet either. 

The only solution I see is to eliminate a few rows, which I have suggested twice now and they've thanked me for the suggestion, but there is no other way this is going to work.

 

I cant agree with you more...You right....NJT New coaches doesnt have that kind of problem at all...Matter of fact the  should Had learned something from  after the grumman order the  deeemed unfit for service yet NJT Ran them for 15 years after that....It seem like the  have all the wrong ppl making bus and subway order decisions...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

I cant agree with you more...You right....NJT New coaches doesnt have that kind of problem at all...Matter of fact the  should Had learned something from  after the grumman order the  deeemed unfit for service yet NJT Ran them for 15 years after that....It seem like the  have all the wrong ppl making bus and subway order decisions...

I think they just thought Prevost would take care of everything, but the client has to take some responsibility as well.  They have actually made some adjustments that made sense. For example, the automated announcements don't come on now on the new express buses until the pick-up segment is done.

[QM1to6Ave]

I don't know how much if this is due to covid increase vs. Christmas approaching, but traffic has been so much lighter in the mornings (not so much in afternoons), and the express buses are definitely emptier morning and evening 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I don't know how much if this is due to covid increase vs. Christmas approaching, but traffic has been so much lighter in the mornings (not so much in afternoons), and the express buses are definitely emptier morning and evening 

Partially COVID and partially vacation.  My office is closing for basically four day weekends this week and next, even though we're work from home. We just won't be expected to answer e-mails those days. Aside from that, I believe the kiddies are out of school for Winter break, so parents are likely taking off to be home with them. I've been coming in to do shopping and run errands and yesterday and today have been light.  Stopped by my office to check a few things and it seems pretty quiet.  I'll see what my trip is like home. I'm trying to leave now to pick up some wine I ordered and then run to the express bus to beat any crazy traffic. 

P.S. If you are working Friday, they'll be running Saturday service, so no QM1. Just the QM5 and QM6 on a Saturday schedule.  The X63, X64 & X68 also won't have service this Friday.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

29 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Partially COVID and partially vacation.  My office is closing for basically four day weekends this week and next, even though we're work from home. We just won't be expected to answer e-mails those days. Aside from that, I believe the kiddies are out of school for Winter break, so parents are likely taking off to be home with them. I've been coming in to do shopping and run errands and yesterday and today have been light.  Stopped by my office to check a few things and it seems pretty quiet.  I'll see what my trip is like home. I'm trying to leave now to pick up some wine I ordered and then run to the express bus to beat any crazy traffic. 

P.S. If you are working Friday, they'll be running Saturday service, so no QM1. Just the QM5 and QM6 on a Saturday schedule.  The X63, X64 & X68 also won't have service this Friday.

Thanks! I will be working Friday 31st most likely, so I assume it'll be a Saturday schedule again, but I'll likely stick to the subway since the NYE closures around 6th ave make the bus somewhat useless for me

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Thanks! I will be working Friday 31st most likely, so I assume it'll be a Saturday schedule again, but I'll likely stick to the subway since the NYE closures around 6th ave make the bus somewhat useless for me

Not sure as of yet. I'll see what can find out.  You can always go up to 57th & 3rd for the express bus there, but yes, definitely expect detours.