BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[QM1to6Ave]

49 minutes ago, SoSpectacular said:

The reduced weekday schedules for certain holidays (and Black Friday) for NYCT aside from Staten Island and MTA Bus are the same each time. Nothing really changes between them.

One thing I've always thought would be a good idea would be to use e-ink displays on the bus stops that can be easily updated on a whim, very much like those e-ink displays stores like Best Buy uses for their price tags. I thought that was pretty damn neat the first time I noticed them.

The problem is that you need a competent person to actually update them. Between the Link NYC tablets, electronic screens on buses, digital ads in some bus stops, email/text alerts, etc, I am sure that the MTA could be very creative in getting up-to-date info out to the customers, but no one seems to be able to have accurate information consistently. It's crazy!

[Lawrence St]

25 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

The problem is that you need a competent person to actually update them. Between the Link NYC tablets, electronic screens on buses, digital ads in some bus stops, email/text alerts, etc, I am sure that the MTA could be very creative in getting up-to-date info out to the customers, but no one seems to be able to have accurate information consistently. It's crazy!

Because they don't have a dedicated team to run it. The Social Media team is busy enough with the rants from passengers, and that leaves no one else to update them.

[paulrivera]

39 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

The problem is that you need a competent person to actually update them. Between the Link NYC tablets, electronic screens on buses, digital ads in some bus stops, email/text alerts, etc, I am sure that the MTA could be very creative in getting up-to-date info out to the customers, but no one seems to be able to have accurate information consistently. It's crazy!

The Link NYC tablets and the electronic screens on buses do display real-time transit info every once in a while.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, SoSpectacular said:

The reduced weekday schedules for certain holidays (and Black Friday) for NYCT aside from Staten Island and MTA Bus are the same each time. Nothing really changes between them.

Except that those reduced schedules aren't included in the general schedule, so people don't know in advance what time the bus is supposed to come on those reduced service days, which is especially important when the bus runs once per hour.

And on Staten Island, they don't run limited-stop service on Good Friday & MLK Day (aside from the S89, S90, and S93), and they don't publish the schedules for the local/limited routes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

The problem is that you need a competent person to actually update them. Between the Link NYC tablets, electronic screens on buses, digital ads in some bus stops, email/text alerts, etc, I am sure that the MTA could be very creative in getting up-to-date info out to the customers, but no one seems to be able to have accurate information consistently. It's crazy!

Well keep in mind that things like the Live Subway Map was done pro bono, so they got that for free, which leads me to believe that they don't have a budget for such things. The live screens you see in the subway stations, that has to be negotiated with the vendors. "X" amount of time for ad revenue and "X" amount of time to actually display real-time info, and they greatly depend on that ad revenue. The City I believe decided to start displaying more real-time transit info. Of course they're in a different situation financially versus the  in terms of their budget on how monies is allocated.

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Because they don't have a dedicated team to run it. The Social Media team is busy enough with the rants from passengers, and that leaves no one else to update them.

Customer Service Team I don't think is massive. I think three of four people were a part of a small meeting I was in. They were very nice. Smart people yes. Transit knowledgeable? I don't know. That's probably one of the problems, so as a result, you are going to get a lot of errors. Someone posting info for a line they don't know about will now catch certain errors.

48 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

The Link NYC tablets and the electronic screens on buses do display real-time transit info every once in a while.

Yes, that was a concerted effort by the City to make them more useful.

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I don’t know how you don’t just give up on fixing these errors…it is a Sisyphean task, and an unpaid one at that. It makes you wonder how anything functions at the MTA when the communication is so bad. 

I don't because I've come to realize that accurate info is something that is probably the main frustration of commuters, so from my own experiences, I've tried to make that a focal point. Believe it or not, there have been some improvements, especially in service on some lines, even with the driver shortages, so that's been the plus. I admit, I wasn't expecting this whole driver shortage thing. I thought we'd get improvements overall and then I could just focus on a handful of lines.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 10/10/2021 at 8:13 PM, JAzumah said:

The mayor has no real interest in bus lanes or anything bus-related. Look at the level of investment in bike lanes versus bus lanes. You do not need a study to put in a bus lane.  Did they do a full environmental study on the first Fifth Avenue bus lane? No, they put it in and it filled up, so they did a small study and put in the second lane. However, the cyclists represent a class that does not include the folks on Merrick Boulevard. We got four busways in the same time we got how many ferries? We've had tons of discussions about how the rail system is Manhattan centric, so faster non-Manhattan regional services are needed.

We won't get that and new bus lanes until we hold up the CBD Tolling District over it. They will put in all of those facilities to get that new toll revenue passed. This is how the city plans to pull themselves out of funding the MTA entirely. Once the tolling district exists, expect them to give the MTA the city owned bridges in exchange for washing their hands of MTA subsidies. They learned from the last time (in 2008) to break up what they want into smaller pieces.

Yes you do need to undertake studies because there are stakeholders involved and the DOT tries to hear all perspectives. I have participated in a few of these DOT bus lane projects. Some meetings have been small, and some big in terms of the stakeholders, but there are always passionate people on both sides, with strong opinions. Not undertaking a study would be poor planning. You need to weigh the pros and cons of every project, understand the environmental impact (will such and such change lead to more congestion, poorer air quality, etc.)? An EIS is basically a must. The latest 5th Av busway project has been under massive scrutiny by the real estate and business industry, which has a massive influence on projects around the City, and they have been lobbying hard to stop this project.

I also disagree with your comments on the Mayor and bus lanes. There have been a number of instances where the DOT has pushed for bus lanes, only to receive major pushback from the communities where they would be implemented because no one wants to give up street parking and the businesses always lament the idea of any loss of business because everyone shops by driving to stores, which is total BS. Despite being in NYC, supposedly no one shopping walks or uses public transit. That's been the main argument along 5th Av, when most of the people shopping clearly WALK to do so, or use mass transit, so the real issue is all of the people that want to drive everywhere, finding every excuse to do so. I've heard the oh, but I need to drive to the doctor, but they only go to the doctor once a month or less, so they don't need the car 24/7. 

Regarding your last point, why should the City have to provide subsidies when the  would stand to receive $1 billion annually of ongoing funding from this tolling program? That increase would substantially increase revenues received from the City. The  already collects congestion pricing fees from sources such as for-hire vehicles that provide trips south of 96th St. I recently was invited to take some trips with Revel. The prices are insane. I can't imagine what they would be with this new tolling program.

[Mtatransit]

Out fanning Staten Island Buses today, those buses really fly.  In some ways it reminds me of riding NICE bus both the surrounding and the 3Gs. Some parts of SI looks like Nassau or even Suffolk County, yet buses runs every 15-30 minutes

Lots of fare beating on the Island in general, from every type of demographics. Still amazed me that the drivers on SI seems to give up on enforcing the fares and just press F5, yet in Queens they will still yell at you if you don't pay. I would say on some routes 60% of the people just walk on (looking at you S46). 

In Nassau, people don't put enough money in the farebox, In the Bronx, people enter through the back door to evade the fair, people in SI just walk through the driver! Now I know why the buses move so slow in Queens, too many people pay!

I wonder if its the same on the express routes.

 

There is a remarkable difference in ridership north of SIE and south of SIE. It seems like thats the dividing line on SI

Also, the S59 is remarkably underutilized. I feel like if they extended the S44 to Eltingville. the S59 doesn't really need to exist

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mtatransit

[paulrivera]

20 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

Lots of fare beating on the Island in general, from every type of demographics. Still amazed me that the drivers on SI seems to give up on enforcing the fares and just press F5, yet in Queens they will still yell at you if you don't pay. I would say on some routes 60% of the people just walk on (looking at you S46). 

In Nassau, people don't put enough money in the farebox, In the Bronx, people enter through the back door to evade the fair, people in SI just walk through the driver! Now I know why the buses move so slow in Queens, too many people pay!

I wonder if its the same on the express routes.

Staten Island's been a farebeater haven for literally decades. Back in the day, people would get on and off  in Tompkinsville instead of St. George to avoid the fare gates. It got to a point where the MTA caught on (basically, a lot of people were walking from Tottenville to the ferry) and put in turnstiles at Tompkinsville in (I wanna say) around 2010.

The Bronx is indeed mostly back door fare beating with others just asking the driver for a ride. I don't normally ride Brooklyn or Queens buses but I can say just based on the times I've ridden the Q10 (who hasn't taken the Q10 to JFK?), Queens seems to have its own culture on boarding buses altogether. IDK about Nassau either, but the Westchester buses people usually pay, but there are some between the Bronx and Yonkers that do try to pull a fast one.

Express buses don't have all that riff raff normally, and if they do it's on Staten Island. I've only ridden the BxM's tho, but I'm sure the QM's and BM's/X's don't play around either.

[Future ENY OP]

4621 (FB). Accident yesterday in the vicinity of Sheepshead Bay. Having a hard time uploading the picture since the picture uploading that I use is not available in the App Store no more. SMH.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Out fanning Staten Island Buses today, those buses really fly.  In some ways it reminds me of riding NICE bus both the surrounding and the 3Gs. Some parts of SI looks like Nassau or even Suffolk County, yet buses runs every 15-30 minutes

Lots of fare beating on the Island in general, from every type of demographics. Still amazed me that the drivers on SI seems to give up on enforcing the fares and just press F5, yet in Queens they will still yell at you if you don't pay. I would say on some routes 60% of the people just walk on (looking at you S46). 

In Nassau, people don't put enough money in the farebox, In the Bronx, people enter through the back door to evade the fair, people in SI just walk through the driver! Now I know why the buses move so slow in Queens, too many people pay!

I wonder if its the same on the express routes.

 

There is a remarkable difference in ridership north of SIE and south of SIE. It seems like thats the dividing line on SI

Also, the S59 is remarkably underutilized. I feel like if they extended the S44 to Eltingville. the S59 doesn't really need to exist

Bus drivers on Staten Island have been literally jumped for confronting fare beaters. I recall years ago, a driver confronted some fare beaters one day. They paid the next time, took the bus to the end of the line and attacked the driver. Not worth it.

[JAzumah]

17 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

5 years later after CBD tolling, the  will cry broke again, and we have to find a new source of revenue from the people again

It will come from China in exchange for Chinese buses and trains assembled in the United States because no one else who has it will do it.

I am only half joking. Look at metro construction in Southeast Asia. Both China and Japan use capital financing in order to construct metro projects and a main caveat is the export of that country's technology for that project. The Chinese are not as good as the Japanese in terms of railcar construction, but they have gotten so much better that the MTA would have to take the offer if they got it. Since they have standardize metro car types in China, whatever car makes it here would be mature technology.

[trainfan22]

This morning I walk to the B42 stop, see a whole bunch of people waiting there I think good, the bus is about to come. Still, had to wait a bit and when a bus does show up, it's fairly empty with no standees and its signed up as Next Bus Please and flags us! 

 

 

Made me late SMH, this is why I hate commuting on buses, don't mind riding them for fanning purposes but in NYC it's a garbage mode of transport full of issues. 

 

 

The subway line closest to my house is the best subway line in the system (the line ) makes the bus seem even worse in comparison.

 

 

[Future ENY OP]

13 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

This morning I walk to the B42 stop, see a whole bunch of people waiting there I think good, the bus is about to come. Still, had to wait a bit and when a bus does show up, it's fairly empty with no standees and its signed up as Next Bus Please and flags us! 

 

 

Made me late SMH, this is why I hate commuting on buses, don't mind riding them for fanning purposes but in NYC it's a garbage mode of transport full of issues. 

 

 

The subway line closest to my house is the best subway line in the system (the line ) makes the bus seem even worse in comparison.

 

 

Wait till those XDE’s pull up on the B42. Additional fanning in Canarsie. 

[Lawrence St]

8 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Out fanning Staten Island Buses today, those buses really fly.  In some ways it reminds me of riding NICE bus both the surrounding and the 3Gs. Some parts of SI looks like Nassau or even Suffolk County, yet buses runs every 15-30 minutes

Lots of fare beating on the Island in general, from every type of demographics. Still amazed me that the drivers on SI seems to give up on enforcing the fares and just press F5, yet in Queens they will still yell at you if you don't pay. I would say on some routes 60% of the people just walk on (looking at you S46). 

In Nassau, people don't put enough money in the farebox, In the Bronx, people enter through the back door to evade the fair, people in SI just walk through the driver! Now I know why the buses move so slow in Queens, too many people pay!

I wonder if its the same on the express routes.

 

There is a remarkable difference in ridership north of SIE and south of SIE. It seems like thats the dividing line on SI

Also, the S59 is remarkably underutilized. I feel like if they extended the S44 to Eltingville. the S59 doesn't really need to exist

That's what happens when people yell at the  and encourage others to fare beat. Why should I pay $127 for my monthly metrocard when I see the same people hopping the turnstyle, entering through the emergency door or just walk on the bus?

There's this one operator on the B35 who does not let ANYONE who didn't pay their fare get on the bus, and he has my full respect.

[Future ENY OP]

Question regarding Bronx operations.  Bx8, Bx31 and Bx39. Are those 3 routes better off at West Farms or Gun Hill.  Only reason i say  this is the proximity of Gun Hill is a lot closer for the 3 routes than West Farms.  
 

Hopefully, something like this gets addressed during the BX bus re-design. 

[JAzumah]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes you do need to undertake studies because there are stakeholders involved and the DOT tries to hear all perspectives. I have participated in a few of these DOT bus lane projects. Some meetings have been small, and some big in terms of the stakeholders, but there are always passionate people on both sides, with strong opinions. Not undertaking a study would be poor planning. You need to weigh the pros and cons of every project, understand the environmental impact (will such and such change lead to more congestion, poorer air quality, etc.)? An EIS is basically a must. The latest 5th Av busway project has been under massive scrutiny by the real estate and business industry, which has a massive influence on projects around the City, and they have been lobbying hard to stop this project.

The dual bus lanes on Madison Avenue and Fifth Avenue are there because of bus volume. There is no need for Fifth Avenue to become a busway. Some studies are designed to make projects happen, some are designed to kill projects, and some are actually influenced by community feedback. For example, the LGA AirTrain's study was designed to legitimize a marginal solution from Willets Point. If you always need studies for bus lanes, then you would also need studies to restripe streets and take away lanes/put in turn lanes. Some of these things are basic traffic management and offset bus lanes are part of basic traffic management.

 

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I also disagree with your comments on the Mayor and bus lanes. There have been a number of instances where the DOT has pushed for bus lanes, only to receive major pushback from the communities where they would be implemented because no one wants to give up street parking and the businesses always lament the idea of any loss of business because everyone shops by driving to stores, which is total BS. Despite being in NYC, supposedly no one shopping walks or uses public transit. That's been the main argument along 5th Av, when most of the people shopping clearly WALK to do so, or use mass transit, so the real issue is all of the people that want to drive everywhere, finding every excuse to do so. I've heard the oh, but I need to drive to the doctor, but they only go to the doctor once a month or less, so they don't need the car 24/7. 

An offset bus lane preserves most of the parking on a street. In addition, short-term street parking is extremely important to the health of businesses. A lot of businesses support people who do all kinds of work using their vehicles. You can't tell the delivery drivers, tradesmen, taxis, and other people who patronize businesses and need short-term parking to go screw themselves. A lot of people who shop on Fifth Avenue use car services as well. You are going to kill Fifth Avenue if yellow cabs and Ubers can't stop in front of high-end stores. Tourists do most of the walking on Fifth Avenue.
 

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Regarding your last point, why should the City have to provide subsidies when the  would stand to receive $1 billion annually of ongoing funding from this tolling program? That increase would substantially increase revenues received from the City. The  already collects congestion pricing fees from sources such as for-hire vehicles that provide trips south of 96th St. I recently was invited to take some trips with Revel. The prices are insane. I can't imagine what they would be with this new tolling program.

The city has agreements to fund the MTA. The city can only function with a reliable MTA. The MTA can only function with reliable funding. The MTA is not going to receive $1B if all of its other funding partners start walking off with their own money. That is what killed congestion pricing in 2008. The city was going to walk away from funding the MTA, so all of the other downstate counties asked for that same pot of money to fund their bus systems "as a matter of fairness". By the time the final math was done, congestion pricing was going to break-even at best. The city is supposedly broke, but they wanted to build a $2.5B light rail system in a corridor with decent transit? Low capacity ferries with little integration into the existing network? The MTA is not the model of efficiency, but they would lose less money if they had coordinated with the MTA on these projects.

This is not operating money. This is CAPITAL MONEY. They are using this CBD tolling money to bond for the next capital program. If the lockbox can be raided, the amount they can bond is going to be discounted heavily and the mission will not be achieved. They are trying to use this money to bond $15B so that the MTA can modernize the system. Governments are better designed to take on this debt than the MTA and they can do it at lower cost. The MTA is forced to do all of this extra work because the city and state keep taking money back from them. I am very against the government (who depends on a functional MTA system for tax revenue) stealing their existing funds so that the MTA is back to square one.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Staten Island's been a farebeater haven for literally decades. Back in the day, people would get on and off  in Tompkinsville instead of St. George to avoid the fare gates. It got to a point where the MTA caught on (basically, a lot of people were walking from Tottenville to the ferry) and put in turnstiles at Tompkinsville in (I wanna say) around 2010.

The Bronx is indeed mostly back door fare beating with others just asking the driver for a ride. I don't normally ride Brooklyn or Queens buses but I can say just based on the times I've ridden the Q10 (who hasn't taken the Q10 to JFK?), Queens seems to have its own culture on boarding buses altogether. IDK about Nassau either, but the Westchester buses people usually pay, but there are some between the Bronx and Yonkers that do try to pull a fast one.

Express buses don't have all that riff raff normally, and if they do it's on Staten Island. I've only ridden the BxM's tho, but I'm sure the QM's and BM's/X's don't play around either.

Most of the farebeating on Staten Island is on the local buses.  Express buses have some, but remember that there are no subways on Staten Island. The other boroughs far less riff raff because the express bus is more of an alternative.

[Mtatransit]

10 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Staten Island's been a farebeater haven for literally decades. Back in the day, people would get on and off  in Tompkinsville instead of St. George to avoid the fare gates. It got to a point where the MTA caught on (basically, a lot of people were walking from Tottenville to the ferry) and put in turnstiles at Tompkinsville in (I wanna say) around 2010.

The Bronx is indeed mostly back door fare beating with others just asking the driver for a ride. I don't normally ride Brooklyn or Queens buses but I can say just based on the times I've ridden the Q10 (who hasn't taken the Q10 to JFK?), Queens seems to have its own culture on boarding buses altogether. IDK about Nassau either, but the Westchester buses people usually pay, but there are some between the Bronx and Yonkers that do try to pull a fast one.

B/O in Nassau seems to be stricter regarding rules on the buses than in the city. I mean I saw a driver and a passenger get into a fight because the passenger didn't have a mask.

Before the installation of turnstiles at Tompkinsville there were a couple of locals that skip both Stapleton and Tompkinsville during rush hours to discourage people from getting off there to save the fare. The tradeoff for not paying that fare at St George is that they catch a later ferry, fair enough... Ironically the people getting on the bus at St George usually pay, but as soon as you get onto Victory Blvd, nobody does anymore

The thing that doesn't sit right with me, was just how "bold" the people are in SI when it comes to fare beating. Probably the boldest out of all five boroughs. Just walk right on in through the front door and take a seat. Families, young, old, everyone. 

Those fare beaters on SI just don't sit right with me. People who obviously can pay but don't pay. You are telling me, that you are out there wearing AirPods pros, and you can't afford the $2.75? At this point, it's like they expected free service.

At least in the other boros, people either ask the driver, sneak in through the back door, etc, but no it is blatant here on SI. 

 
Regarding Queens, never noticed a different culture (I'm from here so I may carry a bias). Lines are definitely enforced here in Queens, however (by the passenger). Drivers also seem more inclined to hold the bus when they see someone not pay.

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Bus drivers on Staten Island have been literally jumped for confronting fare beaters. I recall years ago, a driver confronted some fare beaters one day. They paid the next time, took the bus to the end of the line and attacked the driver. Not worth it.

It haven't been this rampant or bold in other boroughs though. The Bronx has fare beating, but most people entering through the front door pays. No other borough do people just walk on in and take a seat. 

So SI'ers must be especially hostile or something

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Made me late SMH, this is why I hate commuting on buses, don't mind riding them for fanning purposes but in NYC it's a garbage mode of transport full of issues. 

B42 IMO is one of the better ones. Its relatively frequent and because its short, its semi reliable. 

I agree with you in general though, buses in this city is slow, and worse of all unreliable. 

Routes like Q38 have bunching issues despite having 15-20 minutes headways, which is unbelievable

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That's what happens when people yell at the  and encourage others to fare beat. Why should I pay $127 for my monthly metrocard when I see the same people hopping the turnstyle, entering through the emergency door or just walk on the bus?

There's this one operator on the B35 who does not let ANYONE who didn't pay their fare get on the bus, and he has my full respect.

I think the riders in generals need to support the B/O more when they do hold the buses because someone didn't pay. 

Once you let someone in for free, that mentality starts to spread with the exact thinking you mentioned (and I mentioned) of "why should I pay, when nobody else does", and riders who would normally pay, stops doing so

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mtatransit

[paulrivera]

10 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

Routes like Q38 have bunching issues despite having 15-20 minutes headways, which is unbelievable

I’ve heard horror stories about the BM1 bunching on the weekends… and that bus runs once an hour!
 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

B/O in Nassau seems to be more stricter regarding rules on the buses than in the city. I mean I saw a driver and a passenger get into a fight because the passenger didn't have a mask.

Before the installation of turnstiles at Tompkinsville  there were a couple of locals that skip both Stapleton and Tompkinsville during rush hours to discourage people from getting off there to save the fare. The tradeoff for not paying that fare at St George is that they catch a later ferry, fair enough... Ironically the people getting on the bus at St George usually pay, but as soon as you get onto Victory Blvd, nobody does anymore

The thing that doesn't sit right with me, was just how "bold" the people are in SI when it comes to fare beating. Probably the boldest out of all five boroughs. Just walk right on in through the front door and take a seat. Families, young, old, everyone. 

Those fare beaters on SI just doesn't sit right with me. People who obviously have the capacity to pay don't pay. You are telling me, that you are out there wearing airpod pros, and you can't afford the $2.75? At this point its like they expected free service.

Atleast in the other boros, people either ask the driver, sneak in through the back door, etc, but no it is blatant here on SI. 

Regarding Queens, never noticed a different culture (I'm from here so I may carry a bias). Lines are definitely enforced here in Queens however (by the passenger). Drivers also seems more inclined to hold the bus when they see someone not pay.

It haven't been this rampant or bold in other boroughs though. The Bronx has fare beating, but most people entering through the front door pays. No other borough do people just walk on in and take a seat. 

So SI'ers must be especially hostile or something

I would say that farebeating is definitely higher on the Staten Island local buses, and it is scattered about, but at the same time, you generally have more lower income people riding the local buses, though not always.  The clientele from my experience living on the island tends to be better on the express buses, which is higher income (middle class to upper middle class).  I found most of the farebeating was on the weekend express buses vs the weekday, at least on my regular lines anyway.

Farebeating is also high on the local buses in the Bronx, and there are definitely people that just walk on. Don't be fooled... Staten Island isn't exclusive in that. When I've had to spend time in the South Bronx or had jury duty at the court houses, I have used them here and there if I didn't feel like walking. I would sometimes be the only one that would pay out of everyone that boarded.  Meanwhile, I don't notice this problem in Riverdale where I live.  Farebeating is low, be it the express bus, or local buses... Upper income area though.  However, once you cross Broadway & W 231st, the farebeating increases substantially, so it's clear that some of it is linked to income levels, at least with regards to the Bronx, but that doesn't mean that all of those people can't pay.  Plenty of people can, but don't think they should or simply don't want to. 

Similar situation when I lived in Brooklyn.  In the areas I lived, I didn't see many people farebeating, but it happened on select lines and in select areas. Just a question of how widespread it is.  Every borough has it, Manhattan included. While waiting for the express bus, I often see people boarding at 86th & 3rd for the local buses. Walk in through the back door.

[Future ENY OP]

5 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I’ve heard horror stories about the BM1 bunching on the weekends… and that bus runs once an hour!
 

 

It’s the same with the BM2 & BM3.  No difference.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

It’s the same with the BM2 & BM3.  No difference.  

 

19 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I’ve heard horror stories about the BM1 bunching on the weekends… and that bus runs once an hour!
 

 

During the week anyway, the late trips are often tied to the amount of deadheading that takes place to and from Brooklyn or Spring Creek Depot. I've had discussions w/the  about having some buses layover in the Manhattan to try to lessen that scenario, but how feasible that is... Who knows. Weekends could be from parades, detours or just them trying to scramble to cover trips.  They are still struggling to cover the trips they have, including on weekends, even though all lines run no more than once or hour or less.

[Mtatransit]

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would say that farebeating is definitely higher on the Staten Island local buses, and it is scattered about, but at the same time, you generally have more lower income people riding the local buses, though not always.  The clientele from my experience living on the island tends to be better on the express buses, which is higher income (middle class to upper middle class).  I found most of the farebeating was on the weekend express buses vs the weekday, at least on my regular lines anyway.

Farebeating is also high on the local buses in the Bronx, and there are definitely people that just walk on. Don't be fooled... Staten Island isn't exclusive in that. When I've had to spend time in the South Bronx or had jury duty at the court houses, I have used them here and there if I didn't feel like walking. I would sometimes be the only one that would pay out of everyone that boarded.  Meanwhile, I don't notice this problem in Riverdale where I live.  Farebeating is low, be it the express bus, or local buses... Upper income area though.  However, once you cross Broadway & W 231st, the farebeating increases substantially, so it's clear that some of it is linked to income levels, at least with regards to the Bronx, but that doesn't mean that all of those people can't pay.  Plenty of people can, but don't think they should or simply don't want to. 

Similar situation when I lived in Brooklyn.  In the areas I lived, I didn't see many people farebeating, but it happened on select lines and in select areas. Just a question of how widespread it is.  Every borough has it, Manhattan included. While waiting for the express bus, I often see people boarding at 86th & 3rd for the local buses. Walk in through the back door.

No other borough is fare beating this systemic and "normal". It almost seems like the whole borough is not paying, ranging from people in Tottenville, to people in New Dorp or the North Shore. Granted its worse on some routes than others (S46 looking at you).

The strangest thing is on some routes almost everyone pays despite it being near others! On Forest Ave, "most" people pay, yet on Castleton, no one does.

Let me guess for the express buses on SI weekends, everyone under 25 just doesn't pay?

In the Bronx, from my experience, there is VERY high level of fare beating. I was on the Bx15 once from The Hub and almost 60% of the passengers entered through the back door. The Bronx is also the only borough I seen people running for the back door before it closes and holding it for other people. The articulated buses are the worst when it comes to fare beating in the Bronx.

 

Can't wait for backdoor boarding to be in effect, so I wouldn't have to see entitled people thinking their dollar is worth more than mines.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

43 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

No other borough is fare beating this systemic and "normal". It almost seems like the whole borough is not paying, ranging from people in Tottenville, to people in New Dorp or the North Shore. Granted its worse on some routes than others (S46 looking at you).

The strangest thing is on some routes almost everyone pays despite it being near others! On Forest Ave, "most" people pay, yet on Castleton, no one does.

Let me guess for the express buses on SI weekends, everyone under 25 just doesn't pay?

In the Bronx, from my experience, there is VERY high level of fare beating. I was on the Bx15 once from The Hub and almost 60% of the passengers entered through the back door. The Bronx is also the only borough I seen people running for the back door before it closes and holding it for other people. The articulated buses are the worst when it comes to fare beating in the Bronx.

 

Can't wait for backdoor boarding to be in effect, so I wouldn't have to see entitled people thinking their dollar is worth more than mines.

It is not strange at all. My old local bus line was the S48. Forest Avenue is sort of the borderline for the more better, monied neighborhoods on the North Shore.  For example, West Brighton & Westerleigh (I lived on the border of those two neighborhoods) are generally more upper middle class to upper class neighborhoods (my old neighborhood, West Brighton was actually the neighborhood with the wealthiest Census tract not too long ago on the entire island), but you walk 10 minutes from there towards Castleton Av and you're in one of the poorest census tracts on Staten Island, which is still technically part of West Brighton. Crazy I know... lol This is true for most of Forest Avenue, but the further west you go on Forest, that changes. Arlington, Mariners Harbor, Port Richmond... You'll see more farebeating.

Quote

Staten Island's poorest enclave is located only a half-mile from its wealthiest.

The residents of the West Brighton Houses, who had median household earnings of $15,285 in 2014, made less than one-seventh of their neighbors who live just a seven-minute walk south on Broadway, according to 2014 Census data.

Quote

Residents of this area, located south of Forest Avenue between Broadway and Bard Avenue, made $107,869 per household on average in 2014.

The area isn't home to as many of the ultra-wealthy -- households earning $200,000 or more -- as some of the other well-off neighborhoods in the borough, but makes up for it with a higher proportion of households earning in the $100,000 to $199,999 range than anywhere else.

You see where I lived you had far more white collar types (lawyers, doctors, etc.). I used to ride the express bus with a lady who lived in Westerleigh who was a client of mine. She was a General Counsel for an international company.  Now a line like the S46 goes through poorer areas generally speaking, though you do have some monied pockets like Randall Manor.

Source: https://www.silive.com/news/2020/08/staten-islands-household-income-higher-than-nyc-report-says.html

Source: https://www.silive.com/news/2016/01/the_poorest_enclaves_on_staten.html

To answer your question though, yes, farebeating on the local Staten Island buses is pretty much everywhere, no matter how monied the neighborhood, from Tottenville on up, but that's more of an attitude thing than it is about people being able to pay.  Some people just feel entitled.

On the Staten Island express buses, on weekends, yes I would say most of the farebeaters were usually younger types. On the Bronx local bus lines, I would also agree about the farebeating on the articulated lines.  I don't ride the local buses very often in the Bronx, but I remember years ago, I took the Bx9 I think from Fordham to Broadway and transferred to the Bx7 to get home. I couldn't believe how many people boarded and didn't pay, as if it was an everyday occurrence. Meanwhile on the Bx7 and Bx10, I don't see that, and when I do it tends to be kids from other areas outside of Riverdale.  I've seen some drivers refuse to let them ride.  They certainly understand that some areas are more known for farebeating than others.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Mpn4179]

4 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Question regarding Bronx operations.  Bx8, Bx31 and Bx39. Are those 3 routes better off at West Farms or Gun Hill.  Only reason i say  this is the proximity of Gun Hill is a lot closer for the 3 routes than West Farms.  
 

Hopefully, something like this gets addressed during the BX bus re-design. 

I can’t speak from a Bus Operator POV, but from a transit rider POV. The Bx8, Bx31, and Bx39 operates good from both Gun Hill and West Farms, but keep in mind that those three routes are at West Farms for a reason.

For the Bx8 & Bx31 it had to do with the reopening of West Farms Depot. It was supposed to take back Walnut Depot’s former routes but a few of those routes stayed at the depot they were transferred to. (Bx13 at KB, Bx33 at MCH, Bx4 & Bx5 at GH). It also had to do with a couple of routes converted to artics (Bx4 & Bx5) and West Farms was not able to handle artic buses at that time. Gun Hill had to send the Bx8, Bx14, and Bx31 to make up for the routes that could not go there. Artic buses were accepted at WF a couple of months later when the Bx19 went fully artic by January 2004.

For the Bx39 it was Select Bus Service. When the MTA (or whoever) decided to have all the SBS service at one depot for each borough, they decided to send the Bx41 to GH and send the Bx39 to KB. The  swap happened in January 2017, sending some of the 2010 LFSA’s from GH to replace the SBS wrapped LFSA’s from KB. The Bx39 was at KB for three years until January 2020 when it was swapped for the Bx15 full route at WF (They wanted the full route and the short turn route all together at KB).