B46 +SelectBusService+

[Threxx]

As someone who actually uses the B46 every single day I think it's worth commenting here...

 

As far as I can tell, the route's busiest portion is by far between Eastern Parkway and Avenue H. You could probably extend that up to Fulton Street a bit if you want to be generous, but the transfer between the   @ the Utica Avenue station is definitely the most used transfer on the route. I am still skeptical whether SBS will help alleviate things here, especially if the LFSA's are not going to be heavily used or used at all. The main issue I've found is not boarding time (which SBS can help) but overcrowding on the buses themselves. The bus lanes have already improved travel times but they need to be enforced better, especially between Linden Blvd and Snyder Avenue and between Eastern Parkway and Empire Blvd.

From my own experience, I really doubt that the Broadway section of the route is used enough to really necessitate SBS heading up there, so I think the solution makes sense. (To be 100% frank, I think the B46 itself should probably be cut back from WBP entirely considering the and are right there... but crowding on those lines is already an issue in itself.)

I've seen some people float the idea of just having a Broadway-dedicated line of sorts... sure, if you want another route to suffer all the problems of the B1 in Bensonhurst, go for it. There's no real perfect solution to the B46 issue, what the MTA has done by sending the locals to WBP is probably the best you'll get.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

Would it make sense to split the wrapped LFSAs and XD40s between both routes?

[Threxx]

Would it make sense to split the wrapped LFSAs and XD40s between both routes?

 

I would argue the B46 needs them more than the B44, but that's somewhat biased since I use the B46 daily and not the B44... but especially on the weekends, I used to see many an empty LFSA on the 44 SBS... the 46 can still pull a crowd, at least on Saturdays.

[S78 via Hylan]

I'm not so sure about putting artics on the B46 as Utica becomes very narrow north of Empire Blvd. And let me tell you that not many B44 trips are empty.

[Threxx]

I'm not so sure about putting artics on the B46 as Utica becomes very narrow north of Empire Blvd. And let me tell you that not many B44 trips are empty.

 

I'm definitely not doubting either of those things. I'm assuming the street width issue is why the B46 is getting 40 FT buses for SBS in the first place, but consider that Nostrand Avenue can get very narrow in places and the B44 still manages with artics. Nostrand Avenue is a one way street so the comparison isn't perfect, but it is still there.

 

Traffic on Utica tends to thin out north of Eastern Parkway as well, so I don't think that would be as much of an issue. It would be tight but not impossible.

[IAlam]

To be fair IIRC the MTA released a report on SBS usage a while back and I remember seeing that B44 local had more riders than the B44SBS especially on weekends but its far beyond the archives I'm willing to search for.

[Future ENY OP]

I'm not so sure about putting artics on the B46 as Utica becomes very narrow north of Empire Blvd. And let me tell you that not many B44 trips are empty.

You definitely need artics on the 46. However, they should be on selected trips and have a mixture of XD's and LFS on the 44

[Threxx]

The B46 could probably get by with only having the artics at peak periods, perhaps only on the Eastern Parkway - Avenue H shortturn (if that is retained in the move to SBS at all), since that would avoid most of the more problematic sections of the route.

[Express Bus Operator]

I believe the SBS will continue running passing Avenue H, since the BUS lane is still marked continued all the way till filmore

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The main reason the B46 will use 40 footers is because there are not enough artics at FB to go around for both the B44 and 46 and it will be close to a year before NYC Bus can get more artics. That being said given the B46 SBS we'll have SBS service for each of the three busiest routes with the Bx12 and M15 having had it for as long as they've had. It would be interesting if a case study was done comparing the three routes to see what differences are found in traffic levels, ridership patterns and the whole nine. Such a study would also show the challenges of operating such high ridership lines in comparison to the rest of the network and can inform better dispatching practices along with a host of network wide changes. 

[checkmatechamp13]

From my own experience, I really doubt that the Broadway section of the route is used enough to really necessitate SBS heading up there, so I think the solution makes sense. (To be 100% frank, I think the B46 itself should probably be cut back from WBP entirely considering the and are right there... but crowding on those lines is already an issue in itself.)

I've seen some people float the idea of just having a Broadway-dedicated line of sorts... sure, if you want another route to suffer all the problems of the B1 in Bensonhurst, go for it. There's no real perfect solution to the B46 issue, what the MTA has done by sending the locals to WBP is probably the best you'll get.

 

What's your opinion on extending the B47 over to WBP? As it is, it looks like Broadway riders are going to get the unreliability problems of dealing with a busy corridor like Uitca, without the frequent service that comes with it, if they continue the practice of terminating alternate buses at DeKalb.

 

I'm not so sure about putting artics on the B46 as Utica becomes very narrow north of Empire Blvd. And let me tell you that not many B44 trips are empty.

 

The Bx36 runs artics and some of those streets are really narrow.

[Threxx]

What's your opinion on extending the B47 over to WBP? As it is, it looks like Broadway riders are going to get the unreliability problems of dealing with a busy corridor like Uitca, without the frequent service that comes with it, if they continue the practice of terminating alternate buses at DeKalb.

 

Then you're screwing over riders on Ralph Avenue... unless you kept some kind of shortturn at Woodhull or at Ralph/Gates. Even still, I'm apprehensive to extending any route to cover the B46 on Broadway since you're going to create the issues the B46 has right now for another route, solving nothing.

 

Also, I feel like Utica riders are far more screwed over by Broadway than Broadway riders are screwed over by Utica. Utica has bus lanes for most of its length now and the B46 is the only option on that corridor. Broadway has an elevated over it, and the and run on that elevated as an alternative.

[Cait Sith]

So I came across this photo on Facebook...

 

It begins...

 

 

Photo credit: David C.

 

Thank god they went back to the darker blues.....the lighter blues they've been using especially on the M86 and Q44 SBS is an eyesore.

[B35 via Church]

Also, I feel like Utica riders are far more screwed over by Broadway than Broadway riders are screwed over by Utica. Utica has bus lanes for most of its length now and the B46 is the only option on that corridor. Broadway has an elevated over it, and the and run on that elevated as an alternative.

I suppose, but at the same time, there are more far more riders on Broadway seeking points along Utica av, then there are simply those that are embarking & disembarking along Broadway..... In general, I believe the B46 usage on Broadway is underlooked...

 

The MTA started short turning an increasing amt. of buses at Dekalb well before plans of SBS coming to the route ever became public, and for the life of me, I could not figure out why.... Well now I know.... 

 

I just hope they don't use that same logic they did w/ the Bx41 (as far as extending one route to cover the rest of the former route - which in this case would be extending 47's to WBP).....

 

...which leads me to say that I'm in agreement that extending the B47 to WBP would cause more problems than it would solve (the 47 has enough of them as it is; unreliability is a huge problem on that route).... Even if you boarded the 47 west of Utica (well Malcolm X), you'd still have to get off the 47 & walk that block and a half or w/e to catch the 46 SBS.....

[Future ENY OP]

I suppose, but at the same time, there are more far more riders on Broadway seeking points along Utica av, then there are simply those that are embarking & disembarking along Broadway..... In general, I believe the B46 usage on Broadway is underlooked...

 

The MTA started short turning an increasing amt. of buses at Dekalb well before plans of SBS coming to the route ever became public, and for the life of me, I could not figure out why.... Well now I know.... 

 

I just hope they don't use that same logic they did w/ the Bx41 (as far as extending one route to cover the rest of the former route - which in this case would be extending 47's to WBP).....

 

...which leads me to say that I'm in agreement that extending the B47 to WBP would cause more problems than it would solve (the 47 has enough of them as it is; unreliability is a huge problem on that route).... Even if you boarded the 47 west of Utica (well Malcolm X), you'd still have to get off the 47 & walk that block and a half or w/e to catch the 46 SBS.....

 

Look at the depot that's running the current B47 (GA).

Extending to WBP would be hell. Only way I see an extension is you MUST short turn at Sutter and reinstate the B78- KP to Rutland and have that serviced by FB, and let GA cover the back end of the route and extend to WBP, and move that terminal to Ralph and St Johns..

[Threxx]

Look at the depot that's running the current B47 (GA).

Extending to WBP would be hell. Only way I see an extension is you MUST short turn at Sutter and reinstate the B78- KP to Rutland and have that serviced by FB, and let GA cover the back end of the route and extend to WBP, and move that terminal to Ralph and St Johns..

 

...or just split the B47 between GA and Flatbush...

 

I do agree that it would immediately create issues for everything involved. There's been no official talk of them considering it so until further notice we have to work on the assumption that only the B46 local buses will serve that sectionedrdr of Broadway.

[B35 via Church]

Look at the depot that's running the current B47 (GA).

 

Extending to WBP would be hell. Only way I see an extension is you MUST short turn at Sutter and reinstate the B78- KP to Rutland and have that serviced by FB, and let GA cover the back end of the route and extend to WBP, and move that terminal to Ralph and St Johns..

Lol @ the first quip....

 

Secondly, I want that to happen anyway/regardless (revived B78)..... As for what to do w/ the northern portion of the B47, for all I care, they can run em to WBP or Graham av (where the B18 used to end)...... But not bring back the old B40!

[Future ENY OP]

Lol @ the first quip....

 

Secondly, I want that to happen anyway/regardless (revived B78)..... As for what to do w/ the northern portion of the B47, for all I care, they can run em to WBP or Graham av (where the B18 used to end)...... But not bring back the old B40!

Please not that dreaded B40 that ran via Broadway and ended at the depot. If there's any indication with that and the Q24 which I feel needs to be a Broadway Junction to Jamaica and not Dekalb to Jamaica.

 

Yes. The B78 needs to be revived like WAY long time ago. Just too many delays with the current B47. The only thing I'm not in agreement is splitting ops between GA and FB on the current B47.

[B35 via Church]

Please not that dreaded B40 that ran via Broadway and ended at the depot. If there's any indication with that and the Q24 which I feel needs to be a Broadway Junction to Jamaica and not Dekalb to Jamaica.

 

Yes. The B78 needs to be revived like WAY long time ago. Just too many delays with the current B47. The only thing I'm not in agreement is splitting ops between GA and FB on the current B47.

Never said anything about splitting depot operations w/ the B47... That was Threxx.

[checkmatechamp13]

Then you're screwing over riders on Ralph Avenue... unless you kept some kind of shortturn at Woodhull or at Ralph/Gates. Even still, I'm apprehensive to extending any route to cover the B46 on Broadway since you're going to create the issues the B46 has right now for another route, solving nothing.

 

That might not be a bad idea.

 

What would you say most of the B47's reliability issues stem from? Is it Broadway, or just poor management in general?

 

Look at the depot that's running the current B47 (GA).

Extending to WBP would be hell. Only way I see an extension is you MUST short turn at Sutter and reinstate the B78- KP to Rutland and have that serviced by FB, and let GA cover the back end of the route and extend to WBP, and move that terminal to Ralph and St Johns..

 

So you're saying that there's very little demand for through travel between the two portions of Ralph Avenue? (Since Ralph & St. Johns isn't near Sutter & Rutland, those 2 routes wouldn't connect)

 

Lol @ the first quip....

 

Secondly, I want that to happen anyway/regardless (revived B78)..... As for what to do w/ the northern portion of the B47, for all I care, they can run em to WBP or Graham av (where the B18 used to end)...... But not bring back the old B40!

 

Where would you terminate the northern portion of the B47 on the southern end? (In other words, WBP or Graham Avenue to where?)

[Threxx]

That might not be a bad idea.

 

What would you say most of the B47's reliability issues stem from? Is it Broadway, or just poor management in general?

 

 

So you're saying that there's very little demand for through travel between the two portions of Ralph Avenue? (Since Ralph & St. Johns isn't near Sutter & Rutland, those 2 routes wouldn't connect)

 

 

Where would you terminate the northern portion of the B47 on the southern end? (In other words, WBP or Graham Avenue to where?)

 

The section between the two halves of Ralph Avenue really doesn't see that much use afaik... more people use the B15 to get through that area than anything.

 

The route being split is unlikely since I'm sure the MTA is saving management overheads by keeping it as one route... so we should figure out how to work with what we have.

 

I would split the route between GA and Flatbush, or send it entirely to Flatbush if they have the buses for it. They have less routes right now, and even with handling two SBS routes, they'd probably be able to juggle the B47 with it as well. A split would probably be better for both depots...

 

I would also add some short runs (reminicent of the old B40/B78 but not entirely splitting the route...)

 

-Full runs from Woodhull - Kings Plaza

-Short runs from Sutter/Rutland - Kings Plaza

-Short runs from Woodhull - Sutter/Rutland

 

This way, you can retain service for the few who use the B47 as an alternative to the B15 in the Brownsville corridor there, and also make sure that some service reliability is maintained for the more independent sections of the route.

[B35 via Church]

Where would you terminate the northern portion of the B47 on the southern end? (In other words, WBP or Graham Avenue to where?)

Sutter - Rutland ....

(technically, at the current NB B47 stop @ Ralph/E. 98th st)

 

At this point, I'd rather split the 47, than to keep the 47 around & have (at least) every other bus short turning at the .... Too much of the demand is for the portion south of the ; what constituted the old 78 route.....

 

I'm still convinced that the B78 was worsened (service-wise) on purpose, so that it could be merged with the B40.... I got pretty sick & tired of my aunt complaining about the route (78)... I remember when you couldn't catch a dollar van on Utica going to KP south of Church b/c they were already filled up (now you can't catch em because they barely run on Utica anymore.... go figure), and the B46 was, well, the B46 (crushloaded), so folks were taking B35's to the B78 as an alternative...

 

....And it was a quick alternative too.... The route was like my best kept secret amongst friends (I have stories for days about the 78; it was one of my favorite routes to fan in the borough).... Then it felt like out of the blue (I'd say that started up around '97 or '98), buses were coming late/being untimely, buses started arriving back to back - which was around the time my aunt really started up about that "damn 78 bus" (remembering the stories she'd tell, it was like she would always just miss out on catching either of the bunched buses - Which left her with 1/2 hour waits (which never used to happen on that route)).... Back in the late 90's/early 2k's, I wasn't all that privy to the tactics this agency uses to justify route cuts/mergers/detrimental service changes....

 

But yeah, and then it happened, the B78 turned into the B47 (was how it was looked at), and instead of a short(er) route w/ the problems that started plaguing the B78 out of what seemed like nowhere, it was now a long drawn out route with the same problems.....

 

....And that continues on with this route to this very day.... I think I said this before, the portion north of the gets too much service & the portion south of it is underserved.....

 

* btw, the B47 is one of the routes I don't touch with a ten foot pole now....

[Threxx]

(now you can't catch em because they barely run on Utica anymore.... go figure)

 

Off topic, but that isn't true. Being down at Eastern Parkway and Utica everyday and watching all the vans vying for customers says otherwise. They're still out there in full force, and just as annoying.

 

Curtailing their presence will be a difficult task for the Police Dept. in enforcing the bus lanes and new traffic rules.

[B35 via Church]

Off topic, but that isn't true. Being down at Eastern Parkway and Utica everyday and watching all the vans vying for customers says otherwise. They're still out there in full force, and just as annoying.

 

Curtailing their presence will be a difficult task for the Police Dept. in enforcing the bus lanes and new traffic rules.

Yeah you still see them at Eastern Pkwy, but they don't all run to Kings Plaza.... That's the point.

Lot of them now are turning around at Flatlands.....

 

I could go to Kings Plaza on any given saturday afternoon these days, see 10 dollar vans & like 8 of them would be Flatbush vans.... That was never the case back then.....

[Future ENY OP]

Yeah you still see them at Eastern Pkwy, but they don't all run to Kings Plaza....

A lot of those vans are short turning at Flatlands. Most don't go to the mall anymore. I guess the 63rd pct has got the upper hand with the Utica portion to say the least.