Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Q77 is a much needed route, ridership statistics back that up. The MTA even realized that service on the Q77 needed to be improved on Sundays, since the Q77 had no Sunday Service before the service improvements package came along.

[bobtehpanda]

Q101viaSteinway eastern Queens ideas

 

Q12: Create limited stop route which would run between Flushing and Great Neck LIRR. Q12 limited stop route would be extend to Great Neck LIRR via the new n20G route. Q12 local route would continue to run same route as today exept overnight when Q12 local would extend to Great Neck LIRR. 

 

Q26: Extend route to Springfield Blvd and 119 Avenue via Francis Lewis Blvd. Route would run 7 days a week with Q77 service hours.

 

Q27: Extend route to Springfield Blvd and 145 Road. 

 

Q34: Make Flushing to Jamaica part of route a Q25 short route. Flushing to Whitestone portion would then be extended to 7 Avenue and Clintonville Street via old Q14 route between 7 Avenue and Clintonville Street and Willets Point Blvd and 149 Street. Q15A would no longer exist and all Q15A trip become Q15 trip. This will address community concern about Q15A routing on 10 Avenue and Q34 layover on Willets Point Blvd and 149 Street. 

 

Q46: Eliminate Q46 Glen Oak branch and create new Q45 bus which will run via Q46 route between Kew Gardens and Union Tpke and 188 Street, then run via QM5 regular rush hour route between Union Tpke and 188 Street and Union Tpke and 260 Street. This Q45 would run 7 day a week and supplement other bus route in area. All current Q46 Glen Oak bus will run regular Q46 route to LIJ. I would also have another new route Q51 which would run via Q46 route between Kew Gardens and Union Turnpike and 188 Street, then run via 188 Street to 64 Avenue and would be short turn version of Q46 and supplement other bus route in area. 

 

Q77: Elminiate. Q77 seems like not very useful route to me which function can be done by other route. 

 

So, "screw Q46 and Q77 riders", and turn the Q26 into the same kind of clusterf*** the Q27 currently is.

[B35 via Church]

Q50 LTD to LGA would attract more riders than the Q48 would. It would eliminate a double fare for many in the East Bronx to get to LGA, plus serve Queens riders who currently use the Q48. The Bx50 SBS would also cut down on LGA double fares, but it is unfunded at the moment.

Any service coming from the Bronx needing to serve LGA should not be serving Flushing... The Q48 is an example as to why (not).... That's how it should be looked at.... Stating that an extension of the Q50 would attract more riders than the Q48 (to LGA) isn't saying much, since Q48 usage in & out of LGA is sorely lacking.... It would be a complete waste of time for any Bronxite to have to sit through the vehicle & pedestrian traffic nightmare that is downtown Flushing, before eventually reaching LGA.....

 

To be crystal clear, I'm not knocking a Bronx-LGA route in general.... I'm knocking one serving Flushing in the interim.

 

iAlam is spot on, Corona patrons (the ones that [iMO] are keeping the Q48 alive) would not be too fond of waiting for a bus that is coming from as far as Co-op, esp. having the passenger activity that it does b/w Pelham Bay & Co-op City (inclusive), and runs as erratic as, the Q50, getting to Corona from Flushing.... That is the one negative that came from splitting up the old QBx1 - Bx23's are running (more) like clockwork & Q50's run more erraticly than the QBx1 did..... Only thing that doesn't come w/ the Q50 is the abrupt terminating @ PBP that the QBx1 had occurring on it.....

 

Intra-Queens usage is increasing on the Q50 because (let's be honest), some riders have gotten tired of fighting for a seat on (or to even be able to board) the Q25/34.... Similar phenomenon that has the Q19 seeing increases in usage out of Flushing, taking some riders off the hands of the Q66.....

 

I say why not just replace the Q48 Roosevelt and Corona routing via the Q19. The Q19 would turn onto 108th street and then Roosevelt Ave. most of the riders do get on and get off on 108th anyway so you are not effecting many.

I would also try to straighten the Q23 out past Northern. I don't know why buses still continue to run down those narrow streets and make those tight turns. I would also reroute it to run onto Astoria blvd to Ditmas and then from there it will continue to its current last stop until

- Q19 thing I've mentioned many times on here, and as recently as 2 or 3 posts above this very post of yours here.... Yeah, the Q48 can easily be done away with that way.... You have this Q70 here & it is being promoted a little more than the old Q33 was, and yet & still the Q48 is still running.... Way I see it, the Q48 is almost as bad as the old Q10a was (for purposes for going to/from their respective airports), and we envisioned what the fate of that route was.....

 

To boot, I have never seen or heard of anyone riding the to Flushing - Main, to take the Q48 to LGA as a commute.... For one, that's a backtrack, and two, with as infrequent as the route is, you're likely losing overall commuting time anyway.....

 

- Q23 thing, forget it... Corona Plaza (and the street layout in the immediate vicinity) is the reason for that... Heavily commercial, and Q23 usage is only growing up there.... If you straighten it to run on 108th, you'd lose a ton of ridership on the route past (north of) Corona av/108th st....... As far as the street layout aspect, southbound buses turn off 102th to run down 104th b/c 102nd st from the north does not connect to Roosevelt av.... This is why buses make that turn onto 37th to run down 104th, instead of just staying on 102nd....

 

a problem with the Q50 going to LGA is the frequency of service is much diffrent and riders in Corona wouldn't like that  

Agreed... I'll hone the point by saying, it would be more of a detriment to Corona riders waiting for a late Q50 than it would be for them to wait for a late Q48....

[B35 via Church]

So, "screw Q46 and Q77 riders", and turn the Q26 into the same kind of clusterf*** the Q27 currently is.

Yup.

 

I was going to comment on his ideas, but decided to omit my comments & make the above post as you see it..... The Q12 (especially), 26, and 34 ideas I've seen mentioned a couple times before anyway (which is another reason for my omission).... At least he admits his ignorance of the Q77 & how it is used; the last thing SE Queens riders will be apt to doing is xferring at Hillside to get to Jamaica proper... Also, two routes running along that (virtually) nonstop portion along Francis Lewis that the Q76 currently runs along is just wasteful.... It's enough the Q76 does it, but the route is needed for coverage, which is why it exists...

 

I didn't even get a chance to read his Q46 plan before I omitted my reply to him.... Now that I see it, it looks like he's trying to "B103", the Q46... By that I mean, in the sense that the B103 mirrors parallels the BM2 east of Kensington....

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 

Q46: Eliminate Q46 Glen Oak branch and create new Q45 bus which will run via Q46 route between Kew Gardens and Union Tpke and 188 Street, then run via QM5 regular rush hour route between Union Tpke and 188 Street and Union Tpke and 260 Street. This Q45 would run 7 day a week and supplement other bus route in area. All current Q46 Glen Oak bus will run regular Q46 route to LIJ. I would also have another new route Q51 which would run via Q46 route between Kew Gardens and Union Turnpike and 188 Street, then run via 188 Street to 64 Avenue and would be short turn version of Q46 and supplement other bus route in area. 

 

I agree with renumbering the Glen Oaks branch to Q45. Beyond that, I would do one of the following:

 

leave it alone (easiest and most likely);

extend it into North Shore Towers (which NST management would never allow);

extend it via Marcus Avenue to L.I.J. with a stop outside NST property (probably not worth the added cost);

reroute it via 74th Avenue through the L.I.J. campus to the parking deck bus stop (also probably not worth the added cost);

 

 

The only other thing I can think of is to combine the two branches into a single service. Eastbound would use Union Turnpike, left Little Neck Parkway, right 260th, left Union Turnpike, left Lakeville, to LIJ. Westbound in reverse. Maybe shorten the Glen Oaks detour by using 74th Avenue between Little Neck Parkway and 260th. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Q34: Make Flushing to Jamaica part of route a Q25 short route. Flushing to Whitestone portion would then be extended to 7 Avenue and Clintonville Street via old Q14 route between 7 Avenue and Clintonville Street and Willets Point Blvd and 149 Street. Q15A would no longer exist and all Q15A trip become Q15 trip. This will address community concern about Q15A routing on 10 Avenue and Q34 layover on Willets Point Blvd and 149 Street. 

 

The community's larger concern was the service gap along Willets Point Blvd west of Francis Lewis.

 

At least he admits his ignorance of the Q77 & how it is used; the last thing SE Queens riders will be apt to doing is xferring at Hillside to get to Jamaica proper... 

 

That, and you basically eliminate crosstown service along those portions of Springfield & Francis Lewis Blvd (for "intra-SE Queens" riders for lack of a better term)

Edited January 1, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[B35 via Church]

The community's larger concern was the service gap along Willets Point Blvd west of Francis Lewis.

Looks as if he's talking about Whitestone specifically.... While he is right about their gripe w/ the Q15a routing up there, they also didn't want Q14's terminating how they did...

 

To sum it up, they wanted the Q14 service along 149th- they just didn't want buses terminating in that immediate part of Whitestone, is what it really boiled down to....

---------------

 

Last post of the year.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Q26: Extend route to Springfield Blvd and 119 Avenue via Francis Lewis Blvd. Route would run 7 days a week with Q77 service hours.

 

Q27: Extend route to Springfield Blvd and 145 Road. 

 

Q77: Elminiate. Q77 seems like not very useful route to me which function can be done by other route. 

 

Q26:  It used to go all the way to Queens Village, way back when Hollis Court Blvd ran through to Jamaica Avenue (i.e. before the Clearview Expressway was built).

 

Q27:  I agree with the idea of a "Springfield Crosstown" but it should be a separate route. My own idea...

- Q27 between Flushing and either QCC or the old Q75 terminal at 230th Street & 69th Avenue;

- Q57 between Rochdale and QCC.

 

Q77:  No, no, no, leave it alone. Maybe, if the were extended along Hillside, then you could combine Q77 and Q76 to form a "Franny Lew Crosstown" (Q78?). 

[Q101viaSteinway]

My opinion of Q77 is formed based off of learning that most of Q77 usefulness is with schoolkids and that there are other routes such as Q2, Q4, Q83, Q110 that intersect with Q77 and provide service to Jamaica at much more frequent level. 

 

My opinion of Q34 proposal was that Whitestone resident in the news were looking for alternative to Q15A routing and wanted Q14 restored as that was better for them then the Q15A route. In the beginning there were also article out there complaining about Q34 layover in whitestone before extension of Q34 was proposed in the news.

 

No intention of being qjtransitmaster 2.0 here with my ideas.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Q101viaSteinway

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Q77 is used more than just a schookid route. There several routes like the Q77, where schoolkids form a significant portion of daily ridership (Q17, Q31, Q54, Q76, Q88 are a few still within Queens that operate daily). However, just because schoolkids form part of the total ridership doesn't mean that schoolkids are making up all ridership on that route. I'm pretty sure there are more regular commuters than students heading to school as part of daily ridership. The Q17 and Q88 hit major commercial areas and other smaller commercial areas along the route, the Q54's route for the most part is along Commercial areas (since Metropolitan Avenue is a commercial corridor). The Q77 still serves Hillside, and Jamaica, where a lot of people head to, for either work, shopping, recreational activities, or to catch the subway to either parts of the borough or within city limits. 

 

The Q17 and Q88 both carry 5,668,570 and 3,215,533 annual riders in 2014, and they have a good amount of students riding. The average ridership for all the daily NYCT routes is about 3,331,812 riders. The Q17 surpasses it, while the Q88 is a little under bit almost at that mark. The Q77 has 1,743, 470 boardings, which is lower than average in Queens. However, if you look at other NYCT routes, the Q77 stills has higher ridership than the Bx34, M9, M20, Q1, S40/90, S51/81, S52, S59. Its ridership count is comparable with the Q2. All those routes listed though are useful because they provide connectivity within their respective borough, and they do not carry a significant amount of students. Without them, there would be huge connectivity problems (with the exception of the Q1). The Q77 is needed as a north-south link in that portion of Southeast Queens. It would be tedious to attempt such a trip by bus if it wasn't there. I'd say you might as well use a car to make that trip if the Q77 wasn't there.

[bobtehpanda]

I agree with renumbering the Glen Oaks branch to Q45. Beyond that, I would do one of the following:

 

leave it alone (easiest and most likely);

extend it into North Shore Towers (which NST management would never allow);

extend it via Marcus Avenue to L.I.J. with a stop outside NST property (probably not worth the added cost);

reroute it via 74th Avenue through the L.I.J. campus to the parking deck bus stop (also probably not worth the added cost);

 

 

The only other thing I can think of is to combine the two branches into a single service. Eastbound would use Union Turnpike, left Little Neck Parkway, right 260th, left Union Turnpike, left Lakeville, to LIJ. Westbound in reverse. Maybe shorten the Glen Oaks detour by using 74th Avenue between Little Neck Parkway and 260th. 

 

Honestly, Glen Oaks is so quiet that the current setup is really fine; you don't need to make a huge diversion for it in the Q46 and increase travel time to LIJ. Getting to Eastern Queens takes long enough as it is.

[B35 via Church]

Q77: Elminiate. Q77 seems like not very useful route to me which function can be done by other route. 

My opinion of Q77 is formed based off of learning that most of Q77 usefulness is with schoolkids and that there are other routes such as Q2, Q4, Q83, Q110 that intersect with Q77 and provide service to Jamaica at much more frequent level.

 

So let me get this right..... You learn (from this forum, let's just disclose that) that the Q77's usage is mainly schoolkids & that there are other Jamaica feeder routes that are more frequent, garnering more commuters than it - But it seems like it's not a very useful route whose functions can be done by some other route?

 

If that were true, then you would have never regurgitated the idea of running Q26's between Flushing & Cambria Heights... How could the route not be useful when a large chunk of its (weekday, anyway) riderbase consists of schoolkids keeping the route alive? Running Q26's along Francis Lewis "south" does NOTHING for the schoolkids that are directly taking Q77's along Hillside after having came from some point along Francis Lewis....

 

I also like the remark about not being a QJT 2.0 or whatever.... When it was him that stated:

wanna give Q77 purpose right yeah good luck with that I will say it till I am blue in the face let Q26 eat Q77 via frances lewis crosstown. Q77 run it school season only at rush Q26 all other times if Q27 can do it and be very useful then guess what Q26 can do the same thing and it will actually be faster than Q27 anyway even if it eats the whole line it will still be shorter and more reliable than Q27!!

actually my Q26 extension allows the Q77 to get axed completely.

 

Analogously speaking, you are trying to build from a structure concocted by a complete & supreme idiot.... That's not someone anyone should want to base ideas off of..... Running Q26's to the Q27 terminal & running Q27's to the Q77's terminal.....

 

But back to your rather conflicting (or disingenuous) 2 quoted posts.... It's not that the Q77 isn't useful - it's that other routes the Q77 intersects does the function of transporting SE Queens patrons to Jamaica proper, better...... At that point, its either leave the Q77 alone or find some other way the route can be enhanced within the entire network....

------

 

 

With that said.... (my) First post of the new year....

Happy New Year, NYCTF....

[NewFlyer 230]

My opinion of Q77 is formed based off of learning that most of Q77 usefulness is with schoolkids and that there are other routes such as Q2, Q4, Q83, Q110 that intersect with Q77 and provide service to Jamaica at much more frequent level.

 

My opinion of Q34 proposal was that Whitestone resident in the news were looking for alternative to Q15A routing and wanted Q14 restored as that was better for them then the Q15A route. In the beginning there were also article out there complaining about Q34 layover in whitestone before extension of Q34 was proposed in the news.

 

No intention of being qjtransitmaster 2.0 here with my ideas.

Ha I forgot about that guy.

I don't see why people want the Q14 back so badly service between Flushing and Willets Point Blvd is covered by the Q20 and Q44. If you need Willets Point Blvd you take the Q34. Anything above that you take the Q15A. The Q34 had more service added back in 2011 to make up for the loss of the Q14.

The Q25 SBS is suppose to be coming later on this year and the Q34 might see more use below Roosevelt Ave.

I was thinking that the Q25SBS may run all day and everyday. Service would stay at every 6-8 minutes during rush hour, while all Q34 service including those short turns will go to Jamaica to make up for local service. I wonder if the Q25 local will stay.

[B35 via Church]

The Q77 is used more than just a schookid route. There several routes like the Q77, where schoolkids form a significant portion of daily ridership (Q17, Q31, Q54, Q76, Q88 are a few still within Queens that operate daily). However, just because schoolkids form part of the total ridership doesn't mean that schoolkids are making up all ridership on that route. I'm pretty sure there are more regular commuters than students heading to school as part of daily ridership. The Q17 and Q88 hit major commercial areas and other smaller commercial areas along the route, the Q54's route for the most part is along Commercial areas (since Metropolitan Avenue is a commercial corridor). The Q77 still serves Hillside, and Jamaica, where a lot of people head to, for either work, shopping, recreational activities, or to catch the subway to either parts of the borough or within city limits. 

 

The Q17 and Q88 both carry 5,668,570 and 3,215,533 annual riders in 2014, and they have a good amount of students riding. The average ridership for all the daily NYCT routes is about 3,331,812 riders. The Q17 surpasses it, while the Q88 is a little under bit almost at that mark. The Q77 has 1,743, 470 boardings, which is lower than average in Queens. However, if you look at other NYCT routes, the Q77 stills has higher ridership than the Bx34, M9, M20, Q1, S40/90, S51/81, S52, S59. Its ridership count is comparable with the Q2. All those routes listed though are useful because they provide connectivity within their respective borough, and they do not carry a significant amount of students. Without them, there would be huge connectivity problems (with the exception of the Q1). The Q77 is needed as a north-south link in that portion of Southeast Queens. It would be tedious to attempt such a trip by bus if it wasn't there. I'd say you might as well use a car to make that trip if the Q77 wasn't there.

I'd argue not by much, the Q77 isn't.... The routes you list for comparative purposes in the 1st paragraph, the only ones I'll give you are the Q31 & the Q76.... The Q54 is the worst one you could have listed in the category of being a schoolkid route, as it's dubbed..... Q88 & Q17, I'd say borderline (although I'm still reluctant to say that, when I can notice the lines for the Q88 @ QCM & notice the Q17's usage b/w Downtown Flushing & Kissena/HHE & immediately conclude that neither of those 2 routes are being kept alive predominantly b/c of schoolkids)..... The Q17 b/w Kissena/HHE & Jamaica, yeah, I'd say is largely schoolkids over other commuters - fitting, because that part of the Q17 for Jamaica travel is as indirect as hell.... Which is why south of HHE, routes like the Q25/34 & the Q65 (for travel to Jamaica) dominate.....

 

The Q77 isn't as vital to a non-schoolkid in SE Queens as you're making it seem.... Any large amt. of the 1,743,470 of those that aren't schoolkids aren't gonna resort to taking, or might as well take cars (of those that have them) if the Q77 got axed - That's more of an exaggeration than the claim of the route being largely utilized by schoolkids...... It seems as if you're picking & choosing your arguments in that 2nd paragraph with your comparisons - The Q17 & the Q88 have a good amt. of students riding, so the Q77 isn't a heavy schoolkid route (because those 2 routes have higher overall ridership than it).... But the Q77 has higher ridership than the Bx34, M9, M20, etc., so - that makes the Q77 less of a heavy schoolkid route?.... That's how that 2nd paragraph comes off to me....

 

If you're gonna resort to numbers, you should first want to analyze what percent of that 1,743,470 aren't schoolkids.... And compare whatever that percentage is, to every single other route you've decided to enlist in both paragraphs of your post.....

[B35 via Church]

Ha I forgot about that guy.

I don't see why people want the Q14 back so badly service between Flushing and Willets Point Blvd is covered by the Q20 and Q44. If you need Willets Point Blvd you take the Q34. Anything above that you take the Q15A. The Q34 had more service added back in 2011 to make up for the loss of the Q14.

The Q25 SBS is suppose to be coming later on this year and the Q34 might see more use below Roosevelt Ave.

I was thinking that the Q25SBS may run all day and everyday. Service would stay at every 6-8 minutes during rush hour, while all Q34 service including those short turns will go to Jamaica to make up for local service. I wonder if the Q25 local will stay.

Good point.... Will they keep the Q25 local & the Q34 when SBS starts rolling, or will they bastardize local service along Kissena the same way it was along Woodhaven......

 

The Q14 as it was, I would not want back over the current Q15/a setup... The Q15/a has only grown in popularity & patronage since that change was made - including north of the CIP..... Q14 terminated in the middle of residential Whitestone & ran via Parsons to get to/from Flushing.... I say let the Q15/a be the sole route serving the general area (Whitestone/Beechhurst)

[checkmatechamp13]

The Q77 is used more than just a schookid route. There several routes like the Q77, where schoolkids form a significant portion of daily ridership (Q17, Q31, Q54, Q76, Q88 are a few still within Queens that operate daily). However, just because schoolkids form part of the total ridership doesn't mean that schoolkids are making up all ridership on that route. I'm pretty sure there are more regular commuters than students heading to school as part of daily ridership. The Q17 and Q88 hit major commercial areas and other smaller commercial areas along the route, the Q54's route for the most part is along Commercial areas (since Metropolitan Avenue is a commercial corridor). The Q77 still serves Hillside, and Jamaica, where a lot of people head to, for either work, shopping, recreational activities, or to catch the subway to either parts of the borough or within city limits. 

 

The Q17 and Q88 both carry 5,668,570 and 3,215,533 annual riders in 2014, and they have a good amount of students riding. The average ridership for all the daily NYCT routes is about 3,331,812 riders. The Q17 surpasses it, while the Q88 is a little under bit almost at that mark. The Q77 has 1,743, 470 boardings, which is lower than average in Queens. However, if you look at other NYCT routes, the Q77 stills has higher ridership than the Bx34, M9, M20, Q1, S40/90, S51/81, S52, S59. Its ridership count is comparable with the Q2. All those routes listed though are useful because they provide connectivity within their respective borough, and they do not carry a significant amount of students. Without them, there would be huge connectivity problems (with the exception of the Q1). The Q77 is needed as a north-south link in that portion of Southeast Queens. It would be tedious to attempt such a trip by bus if it wasn't there. I'd say you might as well use a car to make that trip if the Q77 wasn't there.

 

Here's an official link that shows student ridership on the NE Queens routes (pages 28-29)

 

Also, the S59 actually is a route that has high student ridership. The MTA even listed it as such in their document booklet, and I can speak from experience having been one of those schoolkids.

 

If that were true, then you would have never regurgitated the idea of running Q26's between Flushing & Cambria Heights... How could the route not be useful when a large chunk of its (weekday, anyway) riderbase consists of schoolkids keeping the route alive? Running Q26's along Francis Lewis "south" does NOTHING for the schoolkids that are directly taking Q77's along Hillside after having came from some point along Francis Lewis....

 

I know this isn't directed at me, but the way I see it, students and the seniors/disabled are the "basic" ridership. Both of them get reduced/free fares, and usually don't have access to a personal vehicle. A route has to be pretty bad if you can't even get students/seniors to ride it.

 

But in any case, I wouldn't necessarily say that a route that has a large chunk of student riders is necessarily a "useless" one. Like you said, the Q77 is the most indirect of the SE Queens routes for travel to Jamaica, so most Jamaica-bound riders take those routes, and then the students/seniors use the route for local travel. And the overall ridership and efficiency of the Q77 is fairly reasonable.

 

Analogously speaking, you are trying to build from a structure concocted by a complete & supreme idiot....

 

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. 

 

With that said.... (my) First post of the new year....

Happy New Year, NYCTF....

 

Happy New Year, bro! 

[B35 via Church]

I know this isn't directed at me, but the way I see it, students and the seniors/disabled are the "basic" ridership. Both of them get reduced/free fares, and usually don't have access to a personal vehicle. A route has to be pretty bad if you can't even get students/seniors to ride it.

 

 

But in any case, I wouldn't necessarily say that a route that has a large chunk of student riders is necessarily a "useless" one. Like you said, the Q77 is the most indirect of the SE Queens routes for travel to Jamaica, so most Jamaica-bound riders take those routes, and then the students/seniors use the route for local travel. And the overall ridership and efficiency of the Q77 is fairly reasonable.

Example: The little old ladies going to church on sundays.... I've seen a lot of that over the years on the Q77 (which is still the case), on top of the very high schoolkid (compared to other commuters) usage on the route....

 

What made me come out with that latest reply to him, was the fact that he stated that he learned what the Q77 was - but beforehand, goes & says that it seems like a useless route...... Like, wait... What?

 

Don't just say that the Q77 seems useless because you want to use the Q26 to replace the Francis Lewis portion (as if that would make those that use the Q77 use it, more!).... I really don't see where some think it's a good idea anyway to have a route running clear along Francis Lewis through Hillside.... The Q76 & the Q77 turning off at Hillside to serve Jamaica, the MTA has right ([conceptually] & [as far as the accurate & realistic reflection of ridership patterns are concerned])..... It's not like the Q27 where you have far more SE Queens patrons seeking areas north of Hillside....

 

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. 

 

 

&

 

Happy New Year, bro! 

Between almost choking & spitting out drinks, I tend to have that effect on some people with what I say... It's never intentional... Lol.

It goes back to what you said a long time ago about displaying my (typed) message as if I was talking to them in person (I never forgot that comment btw)..... That's the intentional part

 

And thanks, bro!

Edited January 1, 2016 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'd argue not by much, the Q77 isn't.... The routes you list for comparative purposes in the 1st paragraph, the only ones I'll give you are the Q31 & the Q76.... The Q54 is the worst one you could have listed in the category of being a schoolkid route, as it's dubbed..... Q88 & Q17, I'd say borderline (although I'm still reluctant to say that, when I can notice the lines for the Q88 @ QCM & notice the Q17's usage b/w Downtown Flushing & Kissena/HHE & immediately conclude that neither of those 2 routes are being kept alive predominantly b/c of schoolkids)..... The Q17 b/w Kissena/HHE & Jamaica, yeah, I'd say is largely schoolkids over other commuters - fitting, because that part of the Q17 for Jamaica travel is as indirect as hell.... Which is why south of HHE, routes like the Q25/34 & the Q65 (for travel to Jamaica) dominate.....

 

The Q77 isn't as vital to a non-schoolkid in SE Queens as you're making it seem.... Any large amt. of the 1,743,470 of those that aren't schoolkids aren't gonna resort to taking, or might as well take cars (of those that have them) if the Q77 got axed - That's more of an exaggeration than the claim of the route being largely utilized by schoolkids...... It seems as if you're picking & choosing your arguments in that 2nd paragraph with your comparisons - The Q17 & the Q88 have a good amt. of students riding, so the Q77 isn't a heavy schoolkid route (because those 2 routes have higher overall ridership than it).... But the Q77 has higher ridership than the Bx34, M9, M20, etc., so - that makes the Q77 less of a heavy schoolkid route?.... That's how that 2nd paragraph comes off to me....

 

If you're gonna resort to numbers, you should first want to analyze what percent of that 1,743,470 aren't schoolkids.... And compare whatever that percentage is, to every single other route you've decided to enlist in both paragraphs of your post.....

The point I was trying to make in that first paragraph was that just because students make up a significant amount of ridership, doesn't mean that it should be looked on as a weak route. By significant, I don't necessarily mean most or all (in terms of percentage), but a noticeable amount. You have a noticeable amount of students on the Q17 and Q88, the Q54 moreso west of 71 Avenue, etc. They all get good ridership, but looking at percentages (using what checkmatechamp linked, using the Q88 as an example), students only account for 26.3% of ridership on the Q88. It's a big amount when considering it individually, but only makes up a chunk. However, the Q88 has over 3 million annual boardings. The Q76 has an even bigger percentage, but I wouldn't go out to say ridership is weak on the Q76. The Q76 does pretty decent, and the Q76 has similar ridership numbers compared with the Q77, off by several hundred riders at most (the Q77 does better on weekdays than the Q76 anyways).

 

The second paragraph was more or less connected with the first, since the routes I listed (which have less annual boardings than the Q77) do not have the same amount of students riding those buses compared to the Q77, with possibly the exception of the S59, as checkmatechamp mentioned. If he would want to eliminate the Q77, then what about the other routes with lower ridership figures? What about routes with a significant amount of students on it? 

 

Overall, what I'm getting at in those two paragraphs was that as long as a route (in this case, the Q77) has a fairly decent amount of ridership per bus and per day (and that most, if not all are paying the proper fare), it shouldn't be axed. Sure there are some exceptions, such as for connectivity purposes and so, but Q77 does well in terms of ridership, and that's what matters, not individual ridership levels, such as students or seniors, etc.

[Far rockaway]

Jamaica Depot should send some 1999 rts buses to Queens village bus depot. so it can replace the 1997-1998 rts bus over there.

[B35 via Church]

The point I was trying to make in that first paragraph was that just because students make up a significant amount of ridership, doesn't mean that it should be looked on as a weak route.

 

By significant, I don't necessarily mean most or all (in terms of percentage), but a noticeable amount. You have a noticeable amount of students on the Q17 and Q88, the Q54 moreso west of 71 Avenue, etc. They all get good ridership, but looking at percentages (using what checkmatechamp linked, using the Q88 as an example), students only account for 26.3% of ridership on the Q88. It's a big amount when considering it individually, but only makes up a chunk. However, the Q88 has over 3 million annual boardings. The Q76 has an even bigger percentage, but I wouldn't go out to say ridership is weak on the Q76. The Q76 does pretty decent, and the Q76 has similar ridership numbers compared with the Q77, off by several hundred riders at most (the Q77 does better on weekdays than the Q76 anyways).

 

The second paragraph was more or less connected with the first, since the routes I listed (which have less annual boardings than the Q77) do not have the same amount of students riding those buses compared to the Q77, with possibly the exception of the S59, as checkmatechamp mentioned. If he would want to eliminate the Q77, then what about the other routes with lower ridership figures? What about routes with a significant amount of students on it? 

 

Overall, what I'm getting at in those two paragraphs was that as long as a route (in this case, the Q77) has a fairly decent amount of ridership per bus and per day (and that most, if not all are paying the proper fare), it shouldn't be axed. Sure there are some exceptions, such as for connectivity purposes and so, but Q77 does well in terms of ridership, and that's what matters, not individual ridership levels, such as students or seniors, etc.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not seeing the connection to analyzing overall ridership, to overall student ridership on a route... One is a portion of the other & should be analyzed separately if that's the segment of the usage that's being referred to..... If that's the guideline we're going to use, I could have shut down that whole argument by bringing up the high student usage of the old x32, even though overall, it was a morbidly lowly utilized route.... You see how stupid that would have been, as it relates to this discussion that's being had?

 

That part of it (that 2nd paragraph) IMO you could have done without, if the crux of the point (overall post) was to illustrate that the Q77 isn't a weak route.... Guess what I'm saying is, your comparisons made it seem like you were trying to disprove how much of a schoolkid route the Q77 isn't, moreso than the Q77 not being a weak route overall.... That's the only reason I replied to your post.....

 

But regardless, the same end conclusion we're in agreement on.... The route is not useless.

Edited January 1, 2016 by B35 via Church

[Q101viaSteinway]

Example: The little old ladies going to church on sundays.... I've seen a lot of that over the years on the Q77 (which is still the case), on top of the very high schoolkid (compared to other commuters) usage on the route....

 

What made me come out with that latest reply to him, was the fact that he stated that he learned what the Q77 was - but beforehand, goes & says that it seems like a useless route...... Like, wait... What?

 

Don't just say that the Q77 seems useless because you want to use the Q26 to replace the Francis Lewis portion (as if that would make those that use the Q77 use it, more!).... I really don't see where some think it's a good idea anyway to have a route running clear along Francis Lewis through Hillside.... The Q76 & the Q77 turning off at Hillside to serve Jamaica, the MTA has right ([conceptually] & [as far as the accurate & realistic reflection of ridership patterns are concerned])..... It's not like the Q27 where you have far more SE Queens patrons seeking areas north of Hillside....

 

Between almost choking & spitting out drinks, I tend to have that effect on some people with what I say... It's never intentional... Lol.

It goes back to what you said a long time ago about displaying my (typed) message as if I was talking to them in person (I never forgot that comment btw)..... That's the intentional part

 

And thanks, bro!

My thinking originally was that Q77 is a useless route because it is not useful to actual non schoolkid commuters. I wanted to extend Q26 because I thought that it may actually help Q27 route as Q27 is a very busy route. But being the humble person I am (it was you that point out that in a post years ago), I live and I learn as I go. 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Q101viaSteinway

[B35 via Church]

My thinking originally was that Q77 is a useless route because it is not useful to actual non schoolkid commuters.

I wanted to extend Q26 because I thought that it may actually help Q27 route as Q27 is a very busy route.

 

But being the humble person I am (it was you that point out that in a post years ago), I live and I learn as I go. 

I know you got those talking points about the Q77 (about it being a heavy schoolkid route & it not being all that useful for other SE Queens commuters heading to Jamaica, because there are other routes it connects to that do so more efficiency) from me.... That is not saying the route is useless.... That's the faulty conclusion emanating from you that's being dissented here....

 

My stance on the Q77 is to simply let it remain the grossly indirect route that it is..... It's needed for network coverage...

Extending the Q26 to SE Queens to possibly help out the Q27 is a] more redundant than the Q77 is, and b] does nothing for the Q77 riders that there are - unless your end goal is to force that many xfers for as high a percentage of those that take the Q77 west of Francis Lewis/Hillside......

 

The person you're basing/parroting ideas off of as if he's some messiah (who was really a pariah) is making you look quite bad right now.... Please stop piggybacking ideas spewed from an outright fool.... I hope that would be a lesson learned from someone living & letting go.....

Edited January 2, 2016 by B35 via Church

[Q101viaSteinway]

I know you got those talking points about the Q77 (about it being a heavy schoolkid route & it not being all that useful for other SE Queens commuters heading to Jamaica, because there are other routes it connects to that do so more efficiency) from me.... That is not saying the route is useless.... That's the faulty conclusion emanating from you that's being dissented here....

 

My stance on the Q77 is to simply let it remain the grossly indirect route that it is..... It's needed for network coverage...

Extending the Q26 to SE Queens to possibly help out the Q27 is a] more redundant than the Q77 is, and b] does nothing for the Q77 riders that there are - unless your end goal is to force that many xfers for as high a percentage of those that take the Q77 west of Francis Lewis/Hillside......

 

The person you're basing/parroting ideas off of as if he's some messiah (who was really a pariah) is making you look quite bad right now.... Please stop piggybacking ideas spewed from an outright fool.... I hope that would be a lesson learned from someone living & letting go.....

I have more idea coming up because we need to change every route we can to have more speed on every bus route just like what qjtransitmaster say (just kidding). In any case, MTA likely wouldn't even consider any of our ideas in first place and I did not take my ideas too seriously. 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Q101viaSteinway

[Q43LTD]

Wanna know something funny? I used the Q77 for both school and non-school purposes. This whole combine the 26/27/77 thing will just be the M5 2.0 (Speaking of, when are they gonna separate that route?) I can guarantee, nobody from SE Queens is trying to get to Flushing directly. The Q27 should have never been sent down to 120 and the 26 should have retained off-peak service

[IAlam]

Ha I forgot about that guy.

I don't see why people want the Q14 back so badly service between Flushing and Willets Point Blvd is covered by the Q20 and Q44. If you need Willets Point Blvd you take the Q34. Anything above that you take the Q15A. The Q34 had more service added back in 2011 to make up for the loss of the Q14.

The Q25 SBS is suppose to be coming later on this year and the Q34 might see more use below Roosevelt Ave.

I was thinking that the Q25SBS may run all day and everyday. Service would stay at every 6-8 minutes during rush hour, while all Q34 service including those short turns will go to Jamaica to make up for local service. I wonder if the Q25 local will stay.

Q25 local has to stay because of north of Main st 

 

Anyways ... for the Q77 the only thing that should really be done to it is it should be extended down south to connect to the far rockaway routes.