Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

20 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

After Terminal C, Q70 SBS should get onto Grand Central Parkway West exit instead of exiting at airport at 102nd St, 23rd Av, 94th St, etc.

Always saw that as some temporary measure.... If that's not the case, I agree 100%.

[Lil 57]

I wonder, why isn't there a bus route that connects Astoria with Sunnyside? You have to go out of the way in order to go between the two neighborhoods. It can be faster to walk between Sunnyside and Astoria than by using public transit because of this. Why not have the Q101 (or a variant of it) run down 39th Street like this? Yes I do know about the Q104, but that doesn't help the western and southern parts of Sunnyside.

Q101A: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pvqWVwbnJ4Xiy0qRm8K5ZaHn1_RKZP2l&usp=sharing

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Lil 57

[Orion6025]

2 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

It can be faster to walk between Sunnyside and Astoria than by using public transit because of this. Why not have the Q101 (or a variant of it) run down 39th Street like this?

The meat of Sunnyside's residential area north of Queens Boulevard is concentrated between 43-48 Streets so the Q104 already does an okay job handling that. Furthermore, from my observations riding the Q104 very few people use the bus in Sunnyside anyway. The majority of the people on board are just folks riding through Sunnyside to get to Astoria from the 7 train or the q32/60. Ultimately though if north-of-Queens Blvd Sunnyside is of enough importance, sending a theoretical Q101A up 43 Street would be more useful (then routing it via 35th Avenue or Northern Boulevard or whatever to Steinway Street)..

As for south of Queens Boulevard, you'll probably want to take the Q101A off of 50th Avenue, 48th Avenue is much more alive with businesses and foot traffic, and it's more centrally located in south-of-Queens Blvd Sunnyside.

Anyway the way I went about this was by splitting the B24. Just terminate Greenpoint half by the 46 Street station. Run the Williamsburg half up to 47/45 Streets, run down Queens Boulevard, up 43rd, then over to Steinway on 35th, run it up to Broadway and terminate. If you're going to run the 101a all the way up to Ditmars, it definitely does not need to further supplement the Q101 north of Ditmars; I'd just turn it around there or send it over to 31 Street (But perhaps 31 Street would just end up being empty mileage?).

Edited July 15, 2019 by Orion6025

[NewFlyer 230]

I’ve been thinking about the Q31 and how outdated it is and how it underperforms. I consider the Q31 a glorified school shuttle because outside of rush hour when school is not in session, the route tends to carry lightly especially when it’s in Auburndale and Bayside. Most of the people along Utopia Parkway utilize the Q30 which is not surprising at all due to how much more frequent it is compared to the Q31.
However the  definitely has not studied its routes and try to modify them over the years to help them better serve neighborhoods and shifting demographics. I believe the Q31 would perform better if actually served Flushing rather than Bayside. Flushing has a high Asian population and so do the areas along the Q31 route above Union Turnpike, so I believe it can help boost ridership on the line and it would allow Utopia Parkway to have direct access to Flushing, which I think is a more desirable destination for those residents than Jamaica.

So I would basically eliminate the route to the right of Utopia & 46th Ave towards Bayside in favor of having it turn right and taking the Q26 route towards Flushing. As far as the routing in Jamaica, I’m leaning more towards having it terminate at Hillside & 169th street because the Q30 would continue to serve the Jamaica LIRR. I don’t have a problem with it going to Jamaica LIRR to supplement the Q30, but I do feel that a problem with a lot of Queens routes is that they do too much in terms of what the routes are trying to accomplish.

A question I have is didn’t the MTA want to completely eliminate the Q26 back in 2010? I feel with the upcoming Queens Bus redesign they may try to eliminate the Q26 again, because it’s only a rush hour only route and most of its route is already covered by the Q27 and Q65. It doesn’t even have weekend service and it doesn’t seems like there is much fight to even get weekend service on the route.
I personally would get rid of it. I don’t think the MTA has any intentions of making it a Queensborough Community College branch, and they would probably be in favor of just short turning Q27 buses at the college instead.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I’ve been thinking about the Q31 and how outdated it is and how it underperforms. I consider the Q31 a glorified school shuttle because outside of rush hour when school is not in session, the route tends to carry lightly especially when it’s in Auburndale and Bayside. Most of the people along Utopia Parkway utilize the Q30 which is not surprising at all due to how much more frequent it is compared to the Q31.
However the  definitely has not studied its routes and try to modify them over the years to help them better serve neighborhoods and shifting demographics. I believe the Q31 would perform better if actually served Flushing rather than Bayside. Flushing has a high Asian population and so do the areas along the Q31 route above Union Turnpike, so I believe it can help boost ridership on the line and it would allow Utopia Parkway to have direct access to Flushing, which I think is a more desirable destination for those residents than Jamaica.

So I would basically eliminate the route to the right of Utopia & 46th Ave towards Bayside in favor of having it turn right and taking the Q26 route towards Flushing. As far as the routing in Jamaica, I’m leaning more towards having it terminate at Hillside & 169th street because the Q30 would continue to serve the Jamaica LIRR. I don’t have a problem with it going to Jamaica LIRR to supplement the Q30, but I do feel that a problem with a lot of Queens routes is that they do too much in terms of what the routes are trying to accomplish.

A question I have is didn’t the MTA want to completely eliminate the Q26 back in 2010? I feel with the upcoming Queens Bus redesign they may try to eliminate the Q26 again, because it’s only a rush hour only route and most of its route is already covered by the Q27 and Q65. It doesn’t even have weekend service and it doesn’t seems like there is much fight to even get weekend service on the route.
I personally would get rid of it. I don’t think the MTA has any intentions of making it a Queensborough Community College branch, and they would probably be in favor of just short turning Q27 buses at the college instead.  

I cannot agree with this, because I believe there does need to be some north-south link in that area for connectivity purposes. The Q76 is too far east (even at 46th Avenue), and doesn't even serve some of the current ridership generators on the Q31. I believe that the turn off of Utopia onto 47th Avenue does hinder some ridership. For starters, it misses commercial Northern Boulevard to serve mainly residential areas enroute to the more commercial section of Bayside. IMO, the Q31 should remain running on Utopia until Northern, then go up Northen Boulevard to Bell Boulevard. I would also sent it to Bay Terrace shopping center (after serving Bayside HS) in order to provide service to/from Bay Terrace to points south of Northern Boulevard. Whatever trips are needed for schoolkids going to/from 29th Avenue can continue running, but I would have that as a part-time branch.

I don't expect to see loads of ridership on many of the easternmost NE Queens routes going north-south (since most of the travel is towards Flushing or some nearby subway station). The further east you go, the more people are using their cars, so routing buses to Flushing because of demographics and because it is a major destination is not going to cut it. The only exception to that is the Q27 along Springfield Boulevard, but that's because Springfield Boulevard has a mix of commercial and (dense) residential zones, along with with multiple schools located near the throughfare. The other areas near Utopia Parkway and Francis Lewis Boulevard are mainly single family homes. The Q31 spends way too much time trying serve those residential areas which clearly are taking Q26 and Q27 buses without hesitation. If it served a mix of commercial and residential areas in that section of NE Queens, you might see more ridership. I would also consider having the route serve 188 Street & HHE so people from the north can get to that area as well, but IDK how I feel about routing buses off of Utopia Parkway between 46th and HHE.

Edited August 6, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NewFlyer 230]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I cannot agree with this, because I believe there does need to be some north-south link in that area for connectivity purposes. The Q76 is too far east (even at 46th Avenue), and doesn't even serve some of the current ridership generators on the Q31. I believe that the turn off of Utopia onto 47th Avenue does hinder some ridership. For starters, it misses commercial Northern Boulevard to serve mainly residential areas enroute to the more commercial section of Bayside. IMO, the Q31 should remain running on Utopia until Northern, then go up Northen Boulevard to Bell Boulevard. I would also sent it to Bay Terrace shopping center (after serving Bayside HS) in order to provide service to/from Bay Terrace to points south of Northern Boulevard. Whatever trips are needed for schoolkids going to/from 29th Avenue can continue running, but I would have that as a part-time branch.

I don't expect to see loads of ridership on many of the easternmost NE Queens routes going north-south (since most of the travel is towards Flushing or some nearby subway station). The further east you go, the more people are using their cars, so routing buses to Flushing because of demographics and because it is a major destination is not going to cut it. The only exception to that is the Q27 along Springfield Boulevard, but that's because Springfield Boulevard has a mix of commercial and (dense) residential zones, along with with multiple schools located near the throughfare. The other areas near Utopia Parkway and Francis Lewis Boulevard are mainly single family homes. The Q31 spends way too much time trying serve those residential areas which clearly are taking Q26 and Q27 buses without hesitation. If it served a mix of commercial and residential areas in that section of NE Queens, you might see more ridership. I would also consider having the route serve 188 Street & HHE so people from the north can get to that area as well, but IDK how I feel about routing buses off of Utopia Parkway between 46th and HHE.

I was also thinking about North and South connection and how that needs to improve in that part of Queens. I think what also hinders ridership in that part of Queens is the fact that the MTA doesn’t offer an additional transfer on top of the one you already get. That’s why the Q31, Q76 tend to suffer and feel more like school shuttles. It doesn’t help that these routes also have high headway’s too, which is expected from routes that are not as appealing than a Q27 is. According to the NE Queens bus study done a few years ago, the Q27 has the most people transferring to and from it out of any route in that section of Queens. I think what actually helps is it’s frequency and the fact that it does a lot as a route, that functions as a subway feeder and a north and south route. 

The  should try to experiment with allowing 2 transfers on routes like the Q27, Q31, Q36, Q76 and Q77. These routes might actually see a boost. 

[B35 via Church]

13 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I’ve been thinking about the Q31 and how outdated it is and how it underperforms. I consider the Q31 a glorified school shuttle because outside of rush hour when school is not in session, the route tends to carry lightly especially when it’s in Auburndale and Bayside. Most of the people along Utopia Parkway utilize the Q30 which is not surprising at all due to how much more frequent it is compared to the Q31.
However the  definitely has not studied its routes and try to modify them over the years to help them better serve neighborhoods and shifting demographics. I believe the Q31 would perform better if actually served Flushing rather than Bayside. Flushing has a high Asian population and so do the areas along the Q31 route above Union Turnpike, so I believe it can help boost ridership on the line and it would allow Utopia Parkway to have direct access to Flushing, which I think is a more desirable destination for those residents than Jamaica.

So I would basically eliminate the route to the right of Utopia & 46th Ave towards Bayside in favor of having it turn right and taking the Q26 route towards Flushing. As far as the routing in Jamaica, I’m leaning more towards having it terminate at Hillside & 169th street because the Q30 would continue to serve the Jamaica LIRR. I don’t have a problem with it going to Jamaica LIRR to supplement the Q30, but I do feel that a problem with a lot of Queens routes is that they do too much in terms of what the routes are trying to accomplish.

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I cannot agree with this, because I believe there does need to be some north-south link in that area for connectivity purposes. The Q76 is too far east (even at 46th Avenue), and doesn't even serve some of the current ridership generators on the Q31. I believe that the turn off of Utopia onto 47th Avenue does hinder some ridership. For starters, it misses commercial Northern Boulevard to serve mainly residential areas enroute to the more commercial section of Bayside. IMO, the Q31 should remain running on Utopia until Northern, then go up Northen Boulevard to Bell Boulevard. I would also sent it to Bay Terrace shopping center (after serving Bayside HS) in order to provide service to/from Bay Terrace to points south of Northern Boulevard. Whatever trips are needed for schoolkids going to/from 29th Avenue can continue running, but I would have that as a part-time branch.

I don't expect to see loads of ridership on many of the easternmost NE Queens routes going north-south (since most of the travel is towards Flushing or some nearby subway station). The further east you go, the more people are using their cars, so routing buses to Flushing because of demographics and because it is a major destination is not going to cut it. The only exception to that is the Q27 along Springfield Boulevard, but that's because Springfield Boulevard has a mix of commercial and (dense) residential zones, along with with multiple schools located near the throughfare. The other areas near Utopia Parkway and Francis Lewis Boulevard are mainly single family homes. The Q31 spends way too much time trying serve those residential areas which clearly are taking Q26 and Q27 buses without hesitation. If it served a mix of commercial and residential areas in that section of NE Queens, you might see more ridership. I would also consider having the route serve 188 Street & HHE so people from the north can get to that area as well, but IDK how I feel about routing buses off of Utopia Parkway between 46th and HHE.

I don't have a problem w/ the Q31 running to Bayside, I have an issue with how it does it (and quote frankly, where it terminates on that end of the route) & the fact that it (for whatever the reason) "has" to be coupled with the Q30.....

I don't see the point in having the Q17 and the Q31 both being Jamaica-Flushing routes.... Matter fact, I believe neither of them should be as such.... Personally, I would turn the thing (Q17) into a Flushing - Fresh Meadows route (current short turn routing) & be done with it.....

If I were to rearrange the thing (Q31), it would run the current course to SJU (from Jamaica), then go Union Tpke > 188th > HHE > Francis Lewis > Northern > Bell > current Q31 routing to Corp. Ken/32nd av (which would be the last dropoff stop, it's a current Q31 NB stop).... Turn it into somewhat of a coverage route with a bit more purpose, instead of a glorified school bus....

So basically, my stance on this matter is somewhere between you two's......

 

4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I was also thinking about North and South connection and how that needs to improve in that part of Queens. I think what also hinders ridership in that part of Queens is the fact that the MTA doesn’t offer an additional transfer on top of the one you already get. That’s why the Q31, Q76 tend to suffer and feel more like school shuttles. It doesn’t help that these routes also have high headway’s too, which is expected from routes that are not as appealing than a Q27 is. According to the NE Queens bus study done a few years ago, the Q27 has the most people transferring to and from it out of any route in that section of Queens. I think what actually helps is it’s frequency and the fact that it does a lot as a route, that functions as a subway feeder and a north and south route. 

The  should try to experiment with allowing 2 transfers on routes like the Q27, Q31, Q36, Q76 and Q77. These routes might actually see a boost. 

This is going to be the unpopular opinion, but the Q76 is more or less a school bus because it spends so much time on Francis Lewis (a road that situates, or is in the immediate vicinity of, a bunch of schools) & the fact that it serves way too much territory from start to finish, without a real ridership gen' it heavily benefits from..... Saying that another way, I find that the Q76 out of Jamaica tends to be taken out of mere convenience, moreso than it being heavily necessary by a lot of people.....

I mean, yes, it serves the mall in College Point, but way more people take Q20a's to/from there along 20th, for obvious reasons..... I find that stragglers take the Q76 to/from the mall & the catchment area it serves/has, has a lot to do with that.....

Edited August 6, 2019 by B35 via Church
combination of replies....

[Gotham Bus Co.]

8 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The  should try to experiment with allowing 2 transfers on routes like the Q27, Q31, Q36, Q76 and Q77. These routes might actually see a boost. 

 

Or maybe scrap transfers in favor of a time-based pass.  Just dip/swipe/tap once and get your run of the whole "base" system for a set amount of time. 

[Lil 57]

37 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Or maybe scrap transfers in favor of a time-based pass.  Just dip/swipe/tap once and get your run of the whole "base" system for a set amount of time. 

100% Agree.

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Or maybe scrap transfers in favor of a time-based pass.  Just dip/swipe/tap once and get your run of the whole "base" system for a set amount of time. 

And the point of that would be?

[NewFlyer 230]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't have a problem w/ the Q31 running to Bayside, I have an issue with how it does it (and quote frankly, where it terminates on that end of the route) & the fact that it (for whatever the reason) "has" to be coupled with the Q30.....

I don't see the point in having the Q17 and the Q31 both being Jamaica-Flushing routes.... Matter fact, I believe neither of them should be as such.... Personally, I would turn the thing (Q17) into a Flushing - Fresh Meadows route (current short turn routing) & be done with it.....

If I were to rearrange the thing (Q31), it would run the current course to SJU (from Jamaica), then go Union Tpke > 188th > HHE > Francis Lewis > Northern > Bell > current Q31 routing to Corp. Ken/32nd av (which would be the last dropoff stop, it's a current Q31 NB stop).... Turn it into somewhat of a coverage route with a bit more purpose, instead of a glorified school bus....

So basically, my stance on this matter is somewhere between you two's......

 

This is going to be the unpopular opinion, but the Q76 is more or less a school bus because it spends so much time on Francis Lewis (a road that situates, or is in the immediate vicinity of, a bunch of schools) & the fact that it serves way too much territory from start to finish, without a real ridership gen' it heavily benefits from..... Saying that another way, I find that the Q76 out of Jamaica tends to be taken out of mere convenience, moreso than it being heavily necessary by a lot of people.....

I mean, yes, it serves the mall in College Point, but way more people take Q20a's to/from there along 20th, for obvious reasons..... I find that stragglers take the Q76 to/from the mall & the catchment area it serves/has, has a lot to do with that.....

I see what you did there with the Q17, and Q31. 

The Q17 will have a more focused role of just bringing people from Fresh Meadows to Flushing even though I can see it losing late night service and losing some of its frequency since it will most likely be consider supplementary to the Q25 and Q88. However I think cutting the route back is good for the route because currently the portion between Union Turnpike and Hillside Ave is more or less nonstop for a lot of buses. Your revised Q31 will be addressing those who are seeking Jamaica on 188th while skipping the lightly used part of 188th street. I always found it odd that the Q17 still continued to terminate at Merrick Blvd & Jamaica Ave of all places but this routing definitely dates back to when the  used to run to 168th street and the El’s been torn down for over 40 years at this point.  

I like your idea of the Q31, because it’s more direct and it breaks away from the Q30 and the Q27 to fulfill a role of its own. And it will skip the long nonstop parts of Francis Lewis and not make that weird “detour” like routing in Bayside.

However I’m curious to know what you’d do with the Q76, because from the look of things, it seems like the Q31 will be covering the important part of Francis Lewis. The part between Northern Blvd & 35th Ave is not too far apart from one another so people can walk to either Northern or 35th Ave to catch the bus. The Q28 and Q16 provide some service along Francis Lewis. All Q16’s could be routed to go via Francis Lewis Blvd while the Utopia branch is eliminated. I would possibly terminate the Q16 at the Cross Island Parkway and Willets Point Blvd because I don’t think service to Fort Totten is necessary. 
 

So that leaves me to think that the Q76 would be eliminated.

Edited August 7, 2019 by NewFlyer 230

[Jova42R]

Maybe there should be a route running from Either Roosevelt Island OR running up Vernon from Vernon Jackson , down 36 Av, then turning on Northern Blvd to 68 St, getting on The BQE to the GCT, and Terminating at LGA.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by New Flyer Xcelsior

[NewFlyer 230]

 

11 minutes ago, New Flyer Xcelsior said:

Maybe there should be a route running from Either Roosevelt Island OR running up Vernon from Vernon Jackson , down 36 Av, then turning on Northern Blvd to 68 St, getting on The BQE to the GCT, and Terminating at LGA.

 

 

 

My question for you is why would you have a route running from Vernon Blvd/ Jackson Ave or Roosevelt Island to LGA when there is already the  or  to Jackson Heights Roosevelt Ave and then the Q70. It could be slightly faster than those mentioned trains to the Q70 but I don’t think there is a strong enough demand for it. 

[Jova42R]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

 

My question for you is why would you have a route running from Vernon Blvd/ Jackson Ave or Roosevelt Island to LGA when there is already the  or  to Jackson Heights Roosevelt Ave and then the Q70. It could be slightly faster than those mentioned trains to the Q70 but I don’t think there is a strong enough demand for it. 

It could also be used as a Northern Blvd-LGA Connector, where there is only one stop on the trains. Also, what about LIC? Will people really take the subway to LGA?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

21 hours ago, Lex said:

And the point of that would be?

 

Increase mobility. Allow for shortening long and unwieldy routes without forcing passengers to pay more. 

[aemoreira81]

In Flushing, the Q27 uses Holly Avenue and is a pretty high frequency route. However, that street isn't really conducive to two-way traffic, and elsewhere, where possible, the MTA has routed buses off of narrow streets onto wider streets (such as the Q10 Local from 131 Street onto 130 Street in Ozone Park). The MTA likely might have considered the same for the Q40, but the wider 143 Street dead-ends before Rockaway Boulevard, and completing it to Rockaway Boulevard would require the DOT to condemn property between 120 Avenue and Rockaway Boulevard.

Likewise, the Q65 uses the ultra-narrow Bowne Street, which is also not really suitable for two-way traffic between Franklin Avenue and 45 Avenue (south of 45 Avenue, Bowne is a one-way street).

Thus, I would propose the following changes:

1. A route swap between the Q26 and Q27 through Flushing, given that even without the Q27, Kissena Boulevard is already well-served (north of Holly Avenue) with the Q17, Q25, and (weekdays only) Q34. The Q26 would assume the Q27 segment west of Parsons.

2. The Q65 would not turn off Sanford onto Bowne, instead operating along Sanford to Parsons Boulevard.

3. Service on the Q17 short-turn segments would be increased, and the last stop on short turns shifted downward to 69 Avenue and 188 Street.

4. To facilitate these short turns, the Q17 stop would be moved to the current stops of the Q25/34 and Q65, since some short-turns would be dispatched from Stengel, allowing for a bus starting from Stengel to make a right turn onto Main from Roosevelt. The Q25/34 southbound stop would move to the far side of Main and 39 (current Q27 stop), while the Q65 stop would take the near side of Main and Roosevelt (current Q17 stop). The Q17 would take the stop between Roosevelt and 41, with the Q26 sharing the stop.

5. As for the Q27, it would take the current Q26 stop, with the Q12 stop being moved back and lengthened.

Advantages: the Q65 and Q27 would be sped up by not being bogged down by double-parked cars or contraflow traffic (Q27 on Holly, Q65 on Bowne). The Q26 being sacrificed on Holly is needed because of the Gold City Supermarket at Holly and Kissena, and riders along the western part of the historic Rocky Hill Road (which consists of present-day 46 Avenue to Utopia, Hollis Court Boulevard to 47 Avenue, 47 Avenue to Francis Lewis, that short street still named it, 48 Avenue to Luke Place, all of Luke Place, 56 Avenue from Luke to Springfield, Springfield to Braddock, and all of Braddock) that would shop at Gold City and need that link. Also, Flushing Hospital gets more service.

 

[IAlam]

On 8/6/2019 at 1:08 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I cannot agree with this, because I believe there does need to be some north-south link in that area for connectivity purposes. The Q76 is too far east (even at 46th Avenue), and doesn't even serve some of the current ridership generators on the Q31. I believe that the turn off of Utopia onto 47th Avenue does hinder some ridership. For starters, it misses commercial Northern Boulevard to serve mainly residential areas enroute to the more commercial section of Bayside. IMO, the Q31 should remain running on Utopia until Northern, then go up Northen Boulevard to Bell Boulevard. I would also sent it to Bay Terrace shopping center (after serving Bayside HS) in order to provide service to/from Bay Terrace to points south of Northern Boulevard. Whatever trips are needed for schoolkids going to/from 29th Avenue can continue running, but I would have that as a part-time branch.

I don't expect to see loads of ridership on many of the easternmost NE Queens routes going north-south (since most of the travel is towards Flushing or some nearby subway station). The further east you go, the more people are using their cars, so routing buses to Flushing because of demographics and because it is a major destination is not going to cut it. The only exception to that is the Q27 along Springfield Boulevard, but that's because Springfield Boulevard has a mix of commercial and (dense) residential zones, along with with multiple schools located near the throughfare. The other areas near Utopia Parkway and Francis Lewis Boulevard are mainly single family homes. The Q31 spends way too much time trying serve those residential areas which clearly are taking Q26 and Q27 buses without hesitation. If it served a mix of commercial and residential areas in that section of NE Queens, you might see more ridership. I would also consider having the route serve 188 Street & HHE so people from the north can get to that area as well, but IDK how I feel about routing buses off of Utopia Parkway between 46th and HHE.

 

On 8/6/2019 at 8:47 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I was also thinking about North and South connection and how that needs to improve in that part of Queens. I think what also hinders ridership in that part of Queens is the fact that the MTA doesn’t offer an additional transfer on top of the one you already get. That’s why the Q31, Q76 tend to suffer and feel more like school shuttles. It doesn’t help that these routes also have high headway’s too, which is expected from routes that are not as appealing than a Q27 is. According to the NE Queens bus study done a few years ago, the Q27 has the most people transferring to and from it out of any route in that section of Queens. I think what actually helps is it’s frequency and the fact that it does a lot as a route, that functions as a subway feeder and a north and south route. 

The  should try to experiment with allowing 2 transfers on routes like the Q27, Q31, Q36, Q76 and Q77. These routes might actually see a boost. 

Ideally IMO the Q31 should go via Utopia, right on Northern, left on Corporal Kennedy and then proceed to the Q28 terminal at Bay Terrence. Alternately is can make a left on Bell and then follow the exist route to Bayside High and then follow the Q28 to Bay Terrence.  

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

In Flushing, the Q27 uses Holly Avenue and is a pretty high frequency route. However, that street isn't really conducive to two-way traffic, and elsewhere, where possible, the MTA has routed buses off of narrow streets onto wider streets (such as the Q10 Local from 131 Street onto 130 Street in Ozone Park). The MTA likely might have considered the same for the Q40, but the wider 143 Street dead-ends before Rockaway Boulevard, and completing it to Rockaway Boulevard would require the DOT to condemn property between 120 Avenue and Rockaway Boulevard.

Likewise, the Q65 uses the ultra-narrow Bowne Street, which is also not really suitable for two-way traffic between Franklin Avenue and 45 Avenue (south of 45 Avenue, Bowne is a one-way street).

Thus, I would propose the following changes:

1. A route swap between the Q26 and Q27 through Flushing, given that even without the Q27, Kissena Boulevard is already well-served (north of Holly Avenue) with the Q17, Q25, and (weekdays only) Q34. The Q26 would assume the Q27 segment west of Parsons.

2. The Q65 would not turn off Sanford onto Bowne, instead operating along Sanford to Parsons Boulevard.

3. Service on the Q17 short-turn segments would be increased, and the last stop on short turns shifted downward to 69 Avenue and 188 Street.

4. To facilitate these short turns, the Q17 stop would be moved to the current stops of the Q25/34 and Q65, since some short-turns would be dispatched from Stengel, allowing for a bus starting from Stengel to make a right turn onto Main from Roosevelt. The Q25/34 southbound stop would move to the far side of Main and 39 (current Q27 stop), while the Q65 stop would take the near side of Main and Roosevelt (current Q17 stop). The Q17 would take the stop between Roosevelt and 41, with the Q26 sharing the stop.

5. As for the Q27, it would take the current Q26 stop, with the Q12 stop being moved back and lengthened.

Advantages: the Q65 and Q27 would be sped up by not being bogged down by double-parked cars or contraflow traffic (Q27 on Holly, Q65 on Bowne). The Q26 being sacrificed on Holly is needed because of the Gold City Supermarket at Holly and Kissena, and riders along the western part of the historic Rocky Hill Road (which consists of present-day 46 Avenue to Utopia, Hollis Court Boulevard to 47 Avenue, 47 Avenue to Francis Lewis, that short street still named it, 48 Avenue to Luke Place, all of Luke Place, 56 Avenue from Luke to Springfield, Springfield to Braddock, and all of Braddock) that would shop at Gold City and need that link. Also, Flushing Hospital gets more service.

 

A Q26 and Q27 route swap would be a great idea IMO.

As for the Q17 I'd make convert more of the Jamaica trip into Fresh Meadows trips. only 1 out of 3 buses going to Jamaica and during peak hours only Limited buses going to Jamaica.

AS for the Q65 my recommendation would be Parsons and 46th or Sanford and 162nd.

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

2. The Q65 would not turn off Sanford onto Bowne, instead operating along Sanford to Parsons Boulevard.

That Q65 reroute was actually included in the 2015 Northeast Queens Bus Study as a short term recommendation. I’m surprised they didn’t go through with this yet. 

[B35 via Church]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:18 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I see what you did there with the Q17, and Q31. 

The Q17 will have a more focused role of just bringing people from Fresh Meadows to Flushing even though I can see it losing late night service and losing some of its frequency since it will most likely be consider supplementary to the Q25 and Q88. However I think cutting the route back is good for the route because currently the portion between Union Turnpike and Hillside Ave is more or less nonstop for a lot of buses. Your revised Q31 will be addressing those who are seeking Jamaica on 188th while skipping the lightly used part of 188th street. I always found it odd that the Q17 still continued to terminate at Merrick Blvd & Jamaica Ave of all places but this routing definitely dates back to when the  used to run to 168th street and the El’s been torn down for over 40 years at this point.  

I like your idea of the Q31, because it’s more direct and it breaks away from the Q30 and the Q27 to fulfill a role of its own. And it will skip the long nonstop parts of Francis Lewis and not make that weird “detour” like routing in Bayside.

However I’m curious to know what you’d do with the Q76, because from the look of things, it seems like the Q31 will be covering the important part of Francis Lewis. The part between Northern Blvd & 35th Ave is not too far apart from one another so people can walk to either Northern or 35th Ave to catch the bus. The Q28 and Q16 provide some service along Francis Lewis. All Q16’s could be routed to go via Francis Lewis Blvd while the Utopia branch is eliminated. I would possibly terminate the Q16 at the Cross Island Parkway and Willets Point Blvd because I don’t think service to Fort Totten is necessary. 
 

So that leaves me to think that the Q76 would be eliminated.

I'll try to tie this all together....

The portion of the Q17 south of Fresh Meadows should be part of another route.... I find that too many people that take the Q17 in Jamaica barely ride past HHE/188th & if there are some that are still on past that point, the most of those folks are definitely off at that first stop at Kissena.... I would take said part of the route (south of HHE) & have it serve other parts of Queens (instead of heading to Flushing)....

side note: What you brought up regarding its terminal in Jamaica is a lesser reason why I'd clip the thing.... As much as I believe that there are too many BPH running to/from Jamaica on the Q20 & Q44 anyway, Merrick between Jamaica & Archer should be reserved for layover spots for the Q20/Q44 only....

Back to the main point..... If I were to have the Q31 take on the course I brought up in my last post, you're right, there wouldn't be much of a need for the Q76 running to Jamaica... Hardly anyone north of Northern ride past Fresh Meadows (let alone all the way down to Jamaica) & said Q31 would run along Francis Lewis b/w Northern & HHE..... With that said though, I would not eliminate the Q76.... Francis Lewis from HHE on up, until the end of the road, should still have bus service.... The Q16 & the Q28 doesn't cover enough of Francis Lewis for me to want to do away with the Q76 up there.....

I'm saying all this about a route I always liked to fan, but I have to be honest - once you get past all those schools along Francis Lewis up there, the thing carries a crapton of air.... Unpopular opinion, but at this point, I would take it away from the shopping ctr. in College Point.... Never liked the backtracking nature of the route up there; save for getting to/from the mall (and connecting to the Q44... lol), it's pointless... Heading north, there are more people that are on Q76's that far north on the route that actually xfer for the Q44, than those that ride it out to the shopping center itself.....

So as to your inquiry as to what I'd do to the Q76 (have the Q31 routed the way I would), again, I wouldn't eliminate it entirely, but I would do away with everything west of Clintonville & that (unofficial) nonstop portion of Francis Lewis b/w HHE & Union Tpke..... In other words, I'd split the Q76, have that happen..... The southern split would be a whole new route running b/w 165th terminal & Bay Terrace (basically a kind-of Q75 revival, and then some)... The northern split would be a Kew Gardens - Whitestone route & would exist mainly for coverage reasons (something to help out the Q46 from the subway to SJU, then commence providing coverage along Utopia & Francis Lewis, etc).... For clarity purposes, I'll draw some maps later, but all in all, I hope that answers your question....

[B35 via Church]

17 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

In Flushing, the Q27 uses Holly Avenue and is a pretty high frequency route. However, that street isn't really conducive to two-way traffic, and elsewhere, where possible, the MTA has routed buses off of narrow streets onto wider streets (such as the Q10 Local from 131 Street onto 130 Street in Ozone Park). The MTA likely might have considered the same for the Q40, but the wider 143 Street dead-ends before Rockaway Boulevard, and completing it to Rockaway Boulevard would require the DOT to condemn property between 120 Avenue and Rockaway Boulevard.

Likewise, the Q65 uses the ultra-narrow Bowne Street, which is also not really suitable for two-way traffic between Franklin Avenue and 45 Avenue (south of 45 Avenue, Bowne is a one-way street).

Thus, I would propose the following changes:

1. A route swap between the Q26 and Q27 through Flushing, given that even without the Q27, Kissena Boulevard is already well-served (north of Holly Avenue) with the Q17, Q25, and (weekdays only) Q34. The Q26 would assume the Q27 segment west of Parsons.

2. The Q65 would not turn off Sanford onto Bowne, instead operating along Sanford to Parsons Boulevard.

3. Service on the Q17 short-turn segments would be increased, and the last stop on short turns shifted downward to 69 Avenue and 188 Street.

4. To facilitate these short turns, the Q17 stop would be moved to the current stops of the Q25/34 and Q65, since some short-turns would be dispatched from Stengel, allowing for a bus starting from Stengel to make a right turn onto Main from Roosevelt. The Q25/34 southbound stop would move to the far side of Main and 39 (current Q27 stop), while the Q65 stop would take the near side of Main and Roosevelt (current Q17 stop). The Q17 would take the stop between Roosevelt and 41, with the Q26 sharing the stop.

5. As for the Q27, it would take the current Q26 stop, with the Q12 stop being moved back and lengthened.

Advantages: the Q65 and Q27 would be sped up by not being bogged down by double-parked cars or contraflow traffic (Q27 on Holly, Q65 on Bowne). The Q26 being sacrificed on Holly is needed because of the Gold City Supermarket at Holly and Kissena, and riders along the western part of the historic Rocky Hill Road (which consists of present-day 46 Avenue to Utopia, Hollis Court Boulevard to 47 Avenue, 47 Avenue to Francis Lewis, that short street still named it, 48 Avenue to Luke Place, all of Luke Place, 56 Avenue from Luke to Springfield, Springfield to Braddock, and all of Braddock) that would shop at Gold City and need that link. Also, Flushing Hospital gets more service.

 

Disadvantages: More BPH on Sanford - significantly more.... You can't just omit that, as if it's a non-factor

Anyway, at best, I'd do one or the other, but not both [swapping the Q26 & Q27 routes up there] & [shifting the Q65 off Bowne].... Me, I'd leave the Q65 on Bowne & have both the Q26 & Q27 run along the current Q26 routing up there... In other words, nothing runs on Holly.... In saying that, I do concur that Kissena doesn't really need the Q27.... The turns the Q65 makes onto/off of Bowne I can live with (when riding from Jamaica, I prefer the Q65 over the Q25/34)... The Q27 turning onto/off of Holly I find to be more of a nuisance/detriment.... Yeah, the Q26 has a shorter span of service & a lower frequency during the rush than the Q27 does, but a physical bus operating on the Q26 is no less of a physical bus that operates on the Q27.....

[aemoreira81]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Disadvantages: More BPH on Sanford - significantly more.... You can't just omit that, as if it's a non-factor

Anyway, at best, I'd do one or the other, but not both [swapping the Q26 & Q27 routes up there] & [shifting the Q65 off Bowne].... Me, I'd leave the Q65 on Bowne & have both the Q26 & Q27 run along the current Q26 routing up there... In other words, nothing runs on Holly.... In saying that, I do concur that Kissena doesn't really need the Q27.... The turns the Q65 makes onto/off of Bowne I can live with (when riding from Jamaica, I prefer the Q65 over the Q25/34)... The Q27 turning onto/off of Holly I find to be more of a nuisance/detriment.... Yeah, the Q26 has a shorter span of service & a lower frequency during the rush than the Q27 does, but a physical bus operating on the Q26 is no less of a physical bus that operates on the Q27.....

Ironically, my post was originally only going to be on the Q27, but then I looked at Google Maps (satellite) to see how wide Bowne Street is (or isn't) between Franklin and 45 and added that to my post.  The Q17 piece was an addendum as I considered traffic in that area...seeing a need to extend the short turns to serve the entirety of the complex...perhaps I should have also titled it as a Q27 issue as well, as I agree that the Q17 south of Fresh Meadows is a bit overserved. The question is how to best serve it.

[NewFlyer 230]

Kissena Blvd doesn't necessarily need to have the Q27 running on it. The Q27 on Kissena for the most part serves as a convenience and a lot of people tend to take it, if a Q17 and Q25 hasn't shown up (mostly the Q25 though since the Q17 is more frequent) . I would have the Q27 and Q65 run up Parsons Blvd. The Q27 would turn down Sanford and then Kissena like the Q65 currently does now, and the Q65 would continue to Roosevelt Ave. It would run down Roosevelt Ave to College Point Blvd where it will then run it current route to its terminal.

Since we are on the topic of Kissena Blvd, I feel that the Q25 needs improvements in service. The Q25 compared to the Q44 and Q65 is slow traveling between Flushing and Jamaica. They should have given it daily limited service to speed service up especially after that NE Queens bus study was done back in 2015. I feel like the Q17 and Q27 has to pick up the slack in Flushing for the subpar Q25 service, when the Q25 should technically be the most frequent of them all. I always wondered how they would implement select bus service on that route, with Kissena Blvd being narrow in Flushing and it traveling down narrow blocks in College Point. 

[NewFlyer 230]

4 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Ironically, my post was originally only going to be on the Q27, but then I looked at Google Maps (satellite) to see how wide Bowne Street is (or isn't) between Franklin and 45 and added that to my post.  The Q17 piece was an addendum as I considered traffic in that area...seeing a need to extend the short turns to serve the entirety of the complex...perhaps I should have also titled it as a Q27 issue as well, as I agree that the Q17 south of Fresh Meadows is a bit overserved. The question is how to best serve it.

I thought the Q17 should terminate at Union Turnpike & 188th street to serve all of Fresh Meadows. The Q17 is pretty much nonstop from Union Turnpike to Hillside Ave so I don't think a bus necessarily needs to run through there.  I like B35's revised Q31 because it deviates from the Q30 to serve a piece of Union Turnpike and the most utilized part of 188th street. People would still have access to Jamaica and plus it would make the Q31 more useful.  

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Since we are on the topic of Kissena Blvd, I feel that the Q25 needs improvements in service. The Q25 compared to the Q44 and Q65 is slow traveling between Flushing and Jamaica. They should have given it daily limited service to speed service up especially after that NE Queens bus study was done back in 2015. I feel like the Q17 and Q27 has to pick up the slack in Flushing for the subpar Q25 service, when the Q25 should technically be the most frequent of them all. I always wondered how they would implement select bus service on that route, with Kissena Blvd being narrow in Flushing and it traveling down narrow blocks in College Point. 

This is going to sound petty, but I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it.....

While you may be right about the (SB) Q17 & Q27 picking up slack for the (SB) 25/34 within Flushing, I'm not so necessarily sure that it has to do with subpar service on the Q25, as much as it is simply having a better chance at getting a seat.... The Q25 (or the Q65) over there at Roosevelt/Main, forget it - folks having came from College Point fill up those buses like it's nothing.... Unless you hop the back of the bus as people are getting off at Flushing (sad that even has to be mentioned & it being an actual thing), chances are you're going to be standing for some time..... As many times as I have been in, and taken buses in & out of Flushing, I don't think I have ever taken the Q25/34/65 from Flushing - and it's mainly for the reason I'm mentioning in this post....

[NewFlyer 230]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is going to sound petty, but I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it.....

While you may be right about the (SB) Q17 & Q27 picking up slack for the (SB) 25/34 within Flushing, I'm not so necessarily sure that it has to do with subpar service on the Q25, as much as it is simply having a better chance at getting a seat.... The Q25 (or the Q65) over there at Roosevelt/Main, forget it - folks having came from College Point fill up those buses like it's nothing.... Unless you hop the back of the bus as people are getting off at Flushing (sad that even has to be mentioned & it being an actual thing), chances are you're going to be standing for some time..... As many times as I have been in, and taken buses in & out of Flushing, I don't think I have ever taken the Q25/34/65 from Flushing - and it's mainly for the reason I'm mentioning in this post....

Usually the buses empty out at Main Street & Roosevelt Ave in both directions, however you’ll still have a few that ride past Roosevelt . In terms of which route has the most usage riding past Roosevelt, I would have to say the Q25 sees the most people staying on, then the Q65 and finally the Q34 which half the buses carry air past Roosevelt going NB. 

I used to be in favor of cutting the Q65 back to Flushing and having the Q34 cover the Q65 route in College Point. The Q65 makes a lot of turns during its route, but that’s not a good reason to cut it back. I also used to favor the idea that perhaps the MTA should swap the Q25 and Q65 routing in College Point if the Q25 ever got SBS. The streets the Q65 travel on in College Point is wider compared to the narrow streets the Q25 goes through. I don’t think too many people would be inconvenienced from such a swap as most get off at Roosevelt Ave anyways. However I’m not too sure if it would be necessary.