LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[trainfan22]

33 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

New London has had high level platforms since 2001, when they were added.

Wow, since 2001? I never rode a train though New London so I only seen the station though photos and videos which showed the low level platforms on the curve, but I never noticed the high level platform there.

[QM1to6Ave]

I'm curious, as I read about all the upcoming increases in LIRR service because of ESA (which is now apparently called Grand Central Madison), where is all the extra cash coming from to pay for service increases when ridership is down since the pandemic, and all the express buses are getting cut (excuse me, I mean "right-sized" as part of the redesigns)? This is making me want to buy a house out on LI, since that will apparently be a better commute 2 years from now than trying to get to the city from Queens.

[shiznit1987]

Speaking of "Grand Central Madison", I noticed on OpenRailwayMap that there are tail tracks down to 39th St. How hard would it be to connect those tracks to the existing east river tunnels and create a loop, thereby sending almost all LIRR trains to Grand Central. 

[40MntVrn]

I'm anticipating how 24/7 LIRR service will be impacted. Wondering overnight service will be afforded to GCM and how people will access that concourse during the late hours.

[Cait Sith]

https://new.mta.info/agency/long-island-rail-road/lirr-to-grand-central/schedules

 

Draft schedules for service to Grand Central are out.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Cait Sith

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So on the Far Rockaway Branch, off-peak service operate to/from the following terminals:

• Late Nights (Daily): Penn Station
• Weekday Middays: Grand Central
• Weekday Evenings: Grand Central
• Weekends: Penn Station

They couldn't just pick one?

Also, try to keep up with the service patterns at Elmont Station

• AM Rush Peak Direction: Huntington trains, with some Ronkonkoma Branch and one Oyster Bay Branch train (to Penn and Grand Central)
• AM Rush Reverse Peak Direction: Hempstead Branch trains with one Ronkonkoma Branch train (all from Grand Central)
• Middays & Evenings: Huntington trains (towards Penn Station) inbound, Hempstead Branch trains (from Grand Central) outbound
• PM Rush Peak Direction: Hempstead trains (from Penn Station)
• PM Rush Reverse Peak Direction: Huntington trains (from Penn Station except for one, which goes to Grand Central)
• Late Nights: Huntington trains inbound, Hempstead trains outbound (all service to/from Penn Station)
• Weekends: Ronkonkoma & Hempstead Branch trains (to/from Grand Central), Ronkonkoma & Huntington trains (to/from Penn Station)

Also some Babylon Branch riders are gonna lose it with the new service patterns, LOL.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Lex]

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

https://new.mta.info/agency/long-island-rail-road/lirr-to-grand-central/schedules

 

Draft schedules for service to Grand Central are out.

Thanks, I hate it.

 

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Thanks, I hate it.

 

Care to elaborate ? Even though they claim that it’s a draft I, personally, don’t think they are going to change much in their final planning. I wonder how this compares with their borough bus redesign plans? My take. Carry on.

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Care to elaborate ? Even though they claim that it’s a draft I, personally, don’t think they are going to change much in their final planning. I wonder how this compares with their borough bus redesign plans? My take. Carry on.

Good point. These new timetables look like service increases overall, while the Queens bus redesign is a glorified service cut. I get that some of the LIRR changes are confusing, but overall seems like a win. Its definitely making me consider moving from Queens to LI (this isn't tge only reason, of course, but it sweetens the deal) 

[IAlam]

Well at least PW finally get the peak service bump we've been asking for, and the guy complaining about the stops being skipped gets what he wants too. But I wish the express trains would stop at Flushing too, I'm seeing a lot more people using the train to and from that station in both directions now so I'd make sense to have easier access to that station in the morning for better connections. 

Also the 1hr gap in Manhattan between trains is rough and idk how much faster it would be it I had to transfer via Woodside vs taking a .  Currently the rule I use is if the LIRR that is has to be less than 20 min away to consider it over the .

[Jsunflyguy]

18 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Care to elaborate ? Even though they claim that it’s a draft I, personally, don’t think they are going to change much in their final planning. I wonder how this compares with their borough bus redesign plans? My take. Carry on.

 Well considering that if you guys had a leaked copy of the timetable then it is almost certainly going to print imminently. So, going to be a lot a chaos and changes over the winter.

[bobtehpanda]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:16 PM, QM1to6Ave said:

I'm curious, as I read about all the upcoming increases in LIRR service because of ESA (which is now apparently called Grand Central Madison), where is all the extra cash coming from to pay for service increases when ridership is down since the pandemic, and all the express buses are getting cut (excuse me, I mean "right-sized" as part of the redesigns)? This is making me want to buy a house out on LI, since that will apparently be a better commute 2 years from now than trying to get to the city from Queens.

So, normally the way these kinds of projects work is that the funding requests to the feds also include a plan of service and how it is going to get paid for. To some degree, this plan has to be followed, otherwise Uncle Sam gets testy that you didn't build and operate what you said you were going to, and they demand their grant money back.

That being said, ESA blew out its budget 3x, so who even knows? But technically these expenses have been known for years and are supposed to be budgeted for in advance. Operations is, thankfully, a place where the budget can't blow out 3x, unless the MTA somehow hired 2x ghosts for every employee they actually hired.

[QM1to6Ave]

22 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

So, normally the way these kinds of projects work is that the funding requests to the feds also include a plan of service and how it is going to get paid for. To some degree, this plan has to be followed, otherwise Uncle Sam gets testy that you didn't build and operate what you said you were going to, and they demand their grant money back.

That being said, ESA blew out its budget 3x, so who even knows? But technically these expenses have been known for years and are supposed to be budgeted for in advance. Operations is, thankfully, a place where the budget can't blow out 3x, unless the MTA somehow hired 2x ghosts for every employee they actually hired.

Ha! Don't give the MTA amy ideas now, especially with the "1 in 3" hiring rule

[Around the Horn]

New M8s 9700/9701 and 9718/9719 are en route to New York on a Union Pacific train.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:15 AM, IAlam said:

Well at least PW finally get the peak service bump we've been asking for, and the guy complaining about the stops being skipped gets what he wants too. But I wish the express trains would stop at Flushing too, I'm seeing a lot more people using the train to and from that station in both directions now so I'd make sense to have easier access to that station in the morning for better connections. 

Also the 1hr gap in Manhattan between trains is rough and idk how much faster it would be it I had to transfer via Woodside vs taking a .  Currently the rule I use is if the LIRR that is has to be less than 20 min away to consider it over the .

The City Terminal Zone map shows where the trains serving the respective Queens stations are going to/from: https://new.mta.info/document/88496

During a typical off-peak period:

The Port Washington-Grand Central train arrives at Woodside on the :16s and the next train to Penn Station is on the :32s (Ronkonkoma train)

The Port Washington-Penn Station train arrives at Woodside on the :44s and the next train to Penn Station is on the :55s (Babylon train)

Outbound, the Penn Station-Port Washington Branch arrives at Woodside on the :28s, so you need to take a Ronkonkoma train from Grand Central that arrives on the :13s (:11s on the weekends)

Outbound, the Grand Central-Port Washington Branch arrives at Woodside on the :56s, so you need to take a Babylon train from Penn Station that arrives on the :49s (:44s on the weekends)

So long story short, it's a 7-16 minute connection (9-21 minute on weekends) depending on the destination and direction you are going.

For those on the branches passing through Jamaica, the longest weekday connections I see inbound are from the BTA-GCT trains at :11 to the RON-NYP trains at :24, the RON-NYP trains at :24 to the HUN-GCT trains at :40, and the RON-GCT trains at :55 to the HUN-NYP trains at :07

For outbound Far Rockaway riders who wish to travel from Penn Station, they are actually better off taking a Port Washington Branch train and making the connection at Woodside (7 minute wait), rather than Jamaica (16 minute wait from a Huntington train, or 10 minute wait from a Babylon train, depending on the exact timeframe). On weekends, the Far Rockaway trains come from Penn Station (arriving at Jamaica on the :45s), so the connections are Babylon trains that arrive 10 minutes prior.

Other than that, the longest weekday connection I see is from the NYP-LBH trains at :13 to the GCT-RON trains at :23.

On weekends, the longest inbound waits I see are from BTA-GCT train at :12 to a RON-NYP train at :24, from a BTA-NYP train at :33 to a HUN-GCT train at :43, and from a RON-GCT train at :57 to a HUN-NYP train at :09

The longest outbound waits I see on the weekends are from a GCT-Babylon local at :35 to the NYP-Babylon semi-express at :54 (in other words, if you want to take the semi-express, just take it straight from Penn Station, or take the subway to Jamaica to catch it). That GCT-Babylon local also connects with the NYP-RON train at :51, and the NYP-FRY train at :45. The other long wait is from a NYP-BTA train at :09 to the GCT-RON train at :21. All of the other connections as far as I see (except those late at night) are 10 minutes or less.

Edited June 5, 2022 by checkmatechamp13

[trainfan22]

Today I planned to fan the Port Jefferson line, only it rode once E/B to do an PJ - Suffolk Transit - KO fantrip which was well over an decade ago. My  train arrived at Sutphin Blvd at 1:30 which would have been in time for the 1:46 Port Jeff departure from Jamaica HOWEVER, I didn't eat lunch yet and was going to Kennedy Fried on Sutphin and by the time they would have prepared the food I could have missed the train so I aborted the fan trip and decided to give it another go tomorrow. 1:46 is the latest train you can take to port jeff for an round trip and get back at an reasonable hour, W/B leaves Port Jeff at around 3:30 - 4PM and the next departure isn't until 11PM at night!

 

 

 

I could have gotten lunch in Port Jeff but its hard to judge how far the restaurants are from the train station on google maps. The closest restaurants was an Jamaican takeout restaurant and Ihop. Would have been to risky to venture to one of those restaurants and come back to the station in time.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by trainfan22

[checkmatechamp13]

On 6/13/2022 at 8:04 PM, trainfan22 said:

Today I planned to fan the Port Jefferson line, only it rode once E/B to do an PJ - Suffolk Transit - KO fantrip which was well over an decade ago. My  train arrived at Sutphin Blvd at 1:30 which would have been in time for the 1:46 Port Jeff departure from Jamaica HOWEVER, I didn't eat lunch yet and was going to Kennedy Fried on Sutphin and by the time they would have prepared the food I could have missed the train so I aborted the fan trip and decided to give it another go tomorrow. 1:46 is the latest train you can take to port jeff for an round trip and get back at an reasonable hour, W/B leaves Port Jeff at around 3:30 - 4PM and the next departure isn't until 11PM at night!

 

 

 

I could have gotten lunch in Port Jeff but its hard to judge how far the restaurants are from the train station on google maps. The closest restaurants was an Jamaican takeout restaurant and Ihop. Would have been to risky to venture to one of those restaurants and come back to the station in time.

I thought there was a train around 8:11pm from Port Jefferson if I'm not mistaken (and I know there's a 6:42pm or 6:49pm out of Stony Brook that can be reached with SCT if necessary)

[trainfan22]

27 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I thought there was a train around 8:11pm from Port Jefferson if I'm not mistaken (and I know there's a 6:42pm or 6:49pm out of Stony Brook that can be reached with SCT if necessary)

Just checked, theres an 8:34 and an 9:45 departures out of Port Jeff W/B, don't know how I missed those runs when planning my trip a couple days ago lol. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Potentially dumb question, but was there ever a plan with ESA to have MNRR go to Penn Station?

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Potentially dumb question, but was there ever a plan with ESA to have MNRR go to Penn Station?

Yes, service on New Haven Line is planned to NYP, they will also build new Metro North stations in The Bronx on the route between New Rochelle and Penn station.

 

https://new.mta.info/project/penn-station-access

Edited June 17, 2022 by trainfan22

[QM1to6Ave]

6 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Yes, service on New Haven Line is planned to NYP, they will also build new Metro North stations in The Bronx on the route between New Rochelle and Penn station.

 

https://new.mta.info/project/penn-station-access

Thanks!

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Thanks!

There is also a similar plan for the Hudson Line, with two stations (one around 62nd Street and one at 125th Street), but it is not as far in the process to my understanding.

[QM1to6Ave]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

There is also a similar plan for the Hudson Line, with two stations (one around 62nd Street and one at 125th Street), but it is not as far in the process to my understanding.

Cool! It makes sense, since Amtrak already goes to/from Penn Station using the existing Hell Gate tracks. I remember years ago posting on here "why can't MNRR theoretically use Amtrak's track to go to Penn Station?" and one of the MNRR employees on here was like "well, it's impossible because we aren't taught how to operate that track" and I was like "well, why can't they just teach you that and get you all certified?" LOL

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Cool! It makes sense, since Amtrak already goes to/from Penn Station using the existing Hell Gate tracks. I remember years ago posting on here "why can't MNRR theoretically use Amtrak's track to go to Penn Station?" and one of the MNRR employees on here was like "well, it's impossible because we aren't taught how to operate that track" and I was like "well, why can't they just teach you that and get you all certified?" LOL

The issue there is that the West Side Line is a lot trickier to build the stations at.

62 St is in the tunnel. At 125 St the line is right up against the Henry Hudson Parkway. The Bronx stations are a lot less site constrained.

For similar reasons, we're not getting an Astoria station on the Hell Gate line, because they studied it and found that they might maybe be able to squeeze in a 4-car platform but it would be really expensive.

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Cool! It makes sense, since Amtrak already goes to/from Penn Station using the existing Hell Gate tracks. I remember years ago posting on here "why can't MNRR theoretically use Amtrak's track to go to Penn Station?" and one of the MNRR employees on here was like "well, it's impossible because we aren't taught how to operate that track" and I was like "well, why can't they just teach you that and get you all certified?" LOL

Over in Philadelphia, one of the things they are considering for their Regional Rail redesign is having Amtrak trains function as the express trains, and off-peak would be all-local service on the SEPTA end, but you could use your SEPTA ticket on Amtrak if you lived near an express stop. (I think the scheduling would be in a way that makes the Amtrak trains come consistently every hour, compared to now where they run at fairly random times).