Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Mysterious2train]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/avenue-subway-line-set-open-new-year-eve-article-1.2911156 

 

 

Second Avenue subway line set to open on New Year’s Eve

 

MTA CEO Tom Prendergast said the MTA was able to compress the testing schedule in order to get it done by Dec. 31.

 (ANGUS MORDANT/FOR NEW YORK DAILY NEWS)

   Before the ball drops, riders can ring in the New Year with a MetroCard swipe at the Second Ave. subway.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chair and CEO Tom Prendergast — still “cautiously optimistic” on finishing the project before 2017 — said Wednesday that the agency is committing to a New Year's Eve opening of a subway project a century in the making, after months of potentially blowing the end-of-year deadline.

Prendergast said the MTA was able to compress the testing schedule, which had been falling behind most of the year, in order to get it done by Dec. 31, at the behest of Gov. Cuomo.

“Maybe I was a little bit of a doubting Thomas for a while, but then I started to see that that change got made and then that's where we started to change our language in terms of saying 'cautiously optimistic,’” Prendergast told reporters after the final MTA board meeting of the year. "We saw a path to an end, a date certain, and an ability to make it."

MTA insists Second Ave. subway on track for completion

Prendergast also said that there will be no partial opening of the Second Ave. subway line, which will bring the Q train from 63rd St. to 96th St. Riders should be able to access all stations, entrances and elevators, Prendergast said.

Gov. Cuomo tours the Second Avenue subway station at 72nd Street on Friday.  (KEVIN P. COUGHLIN/OFFICE OF GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO/OFFICE OF GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUO)

“Track’s done, signals are done, we’ve run trains, we’ve exercised the signal system,” Prendergast said. “We’re talking about finish and escalators, elevators — things of that nature in the station.”

Meanwhile, the big opening day may momentarily thaw the icy relationship between Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio. De Blasio on Tuesday said he’d “love to be there” for the “great moment for New York City.” Cuomo aide Melissa DeRosa on Twitter Wednesday said that “of course the mayor will be invited.”

An official invitation has yet to be sent, a spokesman for the mayor said.

 

Daily News seems awfully optimistic about an opening this month.

 

BTW, here are the two presentations from this weeks' committee meeting. The independent engineer noted how the pace of testing more than doubled recently and was actually optimistic that everything could be completed in time. All testing is supposed to be done by the 23rd (next Friday).

Edited December 15, 2016 by Mysterious2train

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I heard Cuomo is getting involved in this, so I'm pretty sure at this point the 2nd Avenue line will open in 2016.

 

The magically becomes a very efficient and swift agency once Cuomo forces them do something, so this should be good news.

Exactly... I just hope the construction isn't as shoddy as what I saw at Fulton Street... Just a few months after the station opened, I was down there coming from a meeting Downtown, and the doors could barely open.  Station was filthy and looked like it would need a rehab soon.

[Around the Horn]

That Daily News article apparently got taken down...

[rbrome]

I'm surprised that they will actually try to have all elevators and escalators working, at all stations. That seems ambitious. I expected one or two stations to open one entrance short, at first. Huh. 

 

And of course, there will certainly still be plenty of cosmetic work to do, just as they're still installing marble at the WTC Transit Hub. 

[Cone E Island]

My god, they are really going back and forth with the dates. 

[Around the Horn]

This is ridiculous:

 

AMNY: Second Avenue subway should get federal support before Obama leaves office, officials say

In what would be a “last-quarter, three-point shot” for the Obama administration, elected officials are rushing to secure federal support to expand the Second Avenue subway before President-elect Donald Trump takes office.

The new subway line’s first phase is anticipated to open by Dec. 31, with subway stations at 72nd, 86th and 96th streets. A planned Phase II will add three new stations further uptown — to 125th Street in East Harlem — at the tune of $6 billion.

About a third of that cost, $2 billion, will need to come from the federal government, according to Rep. Caroline Maloney (D-N.Y.).

$6 billion dollars?!

Edited December 16, 2016 by Around the Horn

[Union Tpke]

This is ridiculous:

 

AMNY: Second Avenue subway should get federal support before Obama leaves office, officials say

$6 billion dollars?!

 

It shouldn't cost that much! Part of it is already built!

[CenSin]

It shouldn't cost that much! Part of it is already built!

I guess that’s very telling of the costs involved in building just a station.

[RR503]

Or paying consultants. 

 

Honestly, the is THE most inefficient organization I know of. 

[bobtehpanda]

Unless, of course, they're not reusing the tunnel segments, which begs the question about what happened between now and 2004 that the old tunnel segments are a bad idea now? In fact, doesn't Phase I use the old tunnels for overrun tracks?

Edited December 16, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[MTA Bus]

So they're put up the platform signs at Lexington Av - 63rd Street for the Q.http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5853c28bdb9e6/20161215_231148.jpg?

 

 

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[Mysterious2train]

Unless, of course, they're not reusing the tunnel segments, which begs the question about what happened between now and 2004 that the old tunnel segments are a bad idea now? In fact, doesn't Phase I use the old tunnels for overrun tracks?

 

Yes, Phase 1 uses the old tunnel from 99th St to 105th St.

 

The MTA has stated that they also plan on using the old tunnel from 110th St to 120th St for Phase 2. Since the two tunnel segments are only a few blocks apart, I don't even see how they could use one but not the other. 

[NewFlyer 230]

So they're put up the platform signs at Lexington Av - 63rd Street for the Q.http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5853c28bdb9e6/20161215_231148.jpg?

 

 

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

They also have the signs covered up in the mezzanine area too. I saw it when it said "Eastside and Queens" but for now it only has to Queens.

[Porter]

So they're put up the platform signs at Lexington Av - 63rd Street for the Q.http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5853c28bdb9e6/20161215_231148.jpg?

 

 

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

Isn't the supposed to go up there during rush periods? Will any sign mention that?

[Fresh Pond]

Unless, of course, they're not reusing the tunnel segments, which begs the question about what happened between now and 2004 that the old tunnel segments are a bad idea now? In fact, doesn't Phase I use the old tunnels for overrun tracks?

Yes, Phase 1 uses the old tunnel from 99th St to 105th St.

 

The MTA has stated that they also plan on using the old tunnel from 110th St to 120th St for Phase 2. Since the two tunnel segments are only a few blocks apart, I don't even see how they could use one but not the other.

Those tunnels are from the 70s and are still in relatively new condition. It'll be a waste not to use them lol

[Lance]

Isn't the supposed to go up there during rush periods? Will any sign mention that?

Doubt it. There may be something mentioned in the timetable, similar to the and runs to New Lots Av and Utica Av respectively.

[Mysterious2train]

Isn't the supposed to go up there during rush periods? Will any sign mention that?

 

No. We've already seen the signs at the new stations and they don't mention the anywhere.

 

Doubt it. There may be something mentioned in the timetable, similar to the and runs to New Lots Av and Utica Av respectively.

 

The MTA's treatment of limited rush hour only services is awfully inconsistent.

to Nereid Av: openly displayed 

to Utica Av: hidden

to Rockaway Park: openly displayed

to New Lots: hidden

to 179th: not displayed on the map, but is listed on the platforms at Parsons-Hillside and 179th St

 

All of these are displayed in the service guide at least, the to 86th doesn't even get that. Since the service guide seems to be an afterthought now that it's no longer attached to the map, it wouldn't surprise me if they neglected to add the trips to 96th St.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Mysterious2train

[bstar1]

Because those are basically hidden services.

[Porter]

Those tunnels are from the 70s and are still in relatively new condition. It'll be a waste not to use them lol

 

How would the even have an option to not use those tunnels from the '70s? They're directly ahead and in their way. What would they do? Demolish and fill the tunnels and then re-excavate them? Somehow dig around them even though there isn't reasonable space to do so? Mark my words: the only way that the wouldn't use the dormant tunnels north of 96th Street would be if Christopher Nolan's Joker were running it.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Skipper

[Lance]

The MTA's treatment of limited rush hour only services is awfully inconsistent.

to Nereid Av: openly displayed 

to Utica Av: hidden

to Rockaway Park: openly displayed

to New Lots: hidden

to 179th: not displayed on the map, but is listed on the platforms at Parsons-Hillside and 179th St

 

All of these are displayed in the service guide at least, the to 86th doesn't even get that. Since the service guide seems to be an afterthought now that it's no longer attached to the map, it wouldn't surprise me if they neglected to add the trips to 96th St.

It isn't inconsistent. The runs of the to/from Nereid Av and the to/from Rockaway Park are legitimate services, based on ridership patterns and demands. The other ones listed are solely due to capacity constraints. For example, some trains run to/from 179 Street because Jamaica Center cannot turn all 15 trains at the height of the rush hours. While these reroutes do help some riders, that is not their intended purpose. These runs are made to ensure the trains can make a return trip without getting severely delayed due to the track layout.

 

How would the even have an option to not use those tunnels from the '70s? They're directly ahead and in their way. What would they do? Demolish and fill the tunnels and then re-excavate them? Somehow dig around them even though there isn't reasonable space to do so? Mark my words: the only way that the wouldn't use the dormant tunnels north of 96th Street would be if Christopher Nolan's Joker were running it.

They could always dig underneath the original tunnels. Of course, that's extremely wasteful and I'm sure whoever's running the show when planning and construction actually begins on phase 2 will balk at any option that does not include using those pre-built tunnels.

[Porter]

They could always dig underneath the original tunnels.

 

Which, as we know, would require a big dip and resurfacing, without any benefit whatsoever. Wasteful is the right word indeed: of time, money, and labor. It's only a shame that they don't plan on using the Chinatown tunnels (at least not for trains), but apparently it's a routing issue in that particular case. What was the original destination that called for those tunnels?

[Mysterious2train]

Which, as we know, would require a big dip and resurfacing, without any benefit whatsoever. Wasteful is the right word indeed: of time, money, and labor. It's only a shame that they don't plan on using the Chinatown tunnels (at least not for trains), but apparently it's a routing issue in that particular case. What was the original destination that called for those tunnels?

 

It's not a routing issue, the routing will be the same either way; it's a construction issue. Chrystie Street itself is not wide enough to fit all 4 tracks ( and Second Avenue tracks) and 2 platforms at Grand Street on one level without encroaching under the buildings on the sidewalk and Sara D. Roosevelt Park. So to lessen the impact of construction on the neighborhood, the MTA chose to have the tracks below the 6th Av tracks. Building deeper underground would also allow the use of a tunnel boring machine and reduce the amount of cut-and-cover construction needed. As a side effect of this, Chatham Square and Houston Street stations will be deeper than they would have been originally (original plans called for the tracks to be above the tracks at Houston St, but the current plan has it running below instead.) Although the MTA said that the Chinatown tunnel could still be used to store ventilation equipment, so it might not go totally to waste.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Mysterious2train

[Union Tpke]

I still don't know how it costs $6 billion. If this will really cost this much. After perhaps Phase 3, there won't be subway construction for 60 years.

[RailRunRob]

I still don't know how it costs $6 billion. If this will really cost this much. After perhaps Phase 3, there won't be subway construction for 60 years.

6 Billion? Is the 125th street segment where all cost concentrated?

Edited December 16, 2016 by RailRunRob

[Caelestor]

I still don't know how it costs $6 billion. If this will really cost this much. After perhaps Phase 3, there won't be subway construction for 60 years.

 

Contractors running up the costs.

 

 

6 Billion? Is the 125th street segment where all cost concentrated?

 

The 125 St station will probably be as expensive as 34 St - Hudson Yards due to its deep-level location and complexity of the area (transfers to MNR and Lex Ave).

Edited December 16, 2016 by Caelestor