Fixing the M60 Route from Delays?

[Concourse Express]

 

 

You do have some advocates in Harlem, as well as elected official in East Harlem Councilwoman Melissa Mark-Viverito. However, those from Central Harlem, such as Councilwoman Inez Dickens, would oppose it on the grounds of curbing their "car=upward mobility" mindset.

 

 

Ah, I see. Somehow I think the +SBS advocates will win, but we'll see how it plays out...

[WorkerX]

On this issue, I agree with placing a bus-only lane at 125th Street. But if it comes to losing parking space, expect opposition from Harlem residents and pols, who have the mentality of "having a car equals moving up to the middle class." If they opposed safety improvements on part of accident-plagued Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Blvd, don't be surprised to see them fight against this.

 

 

The issue with 7th ave was that people love to drive guns blazing (a lot of the gypsy cabs and it goes thur a part of harlem has a lot of churches and projects where cars will either doube park or stylin'. 7th Ave isn't as dangerous as Queens Bvld or Grand Concourse. Just a lot of dumb people up there.

 

BTW: Also as I am both a car owner and Harlem resident, I do oppose what they did but understand it. The 145th St turn signal was needed.however.

[Mysterious2train]

Well not SBS just yet but effective august 13 they are about 10 stops that have been eliminated from the route

so here goes eastbound towards Airport...........................................

 

 

In regards to cut M60 stops it's just as prgordo says:

 

From the MTA's site.

 

First off, what's the point of "merging" the two stops at Amsterdam into a La Selle St stop? The La Selle St is literally no more than 150 ft from the old 125th St/Amsterdam stop. Now, instead of sharing a stop with the other 125th St routes, it stops with the M11 on the other side of the corner. What's gained from this? I'm assuming it's to have less people get on the M60 at that busy intersection so it'll move quicker overall, but I think that's kinda silly. Might as well just cut the 123rd St stop. One thing that amused me was that the cut Queens stops at least had a poster explaining the M60 no longer stop, but Morningside Av didn't get one, the M60 sign was just removed. Of course, the MTA could get away with it since the number of people getting on there needing the M60 must be really low. And it's pretty close to St. Nicholas Av.

 

Nice of the MTA to try and save time (or maybe it's only to save money, I dunno) but I don't think it matters all that much, as long as the the only Upper Manhattan link to LaGuardia has to double as a local crosstown and providing service on Astoria Blvd, it's just going to be sub-par, as far as bus service goes. I don't think there shouldn't be a service, just that it shouldn't be the only one available.

 

tl;dr - The MTA should just make an express version of the M60 and be done with it.

 

I made a post about it in the other thread.

[prgordo]

@ Mysterious2train

 

Dont worry im certain the 123 st stop will return I get alot of seniors who use that stop

as for Lasalle I like it cause it doesnt clog up the other stop plus the look on the faces when I pass amsterdam

then morningside

there were posters on all the stops but some got taken down I guess

[Mysterious2train]

So if someone wants to see how the route with less stops compares to before:

 

Before

 

 

 

Now

 

 

 

Not much has really changed.

[East Broadway]

I'd like, but this should really be more of a Airport Shuttle, and use the express buses, but lower end indoors, and dual level.

[youngblaze]

I'd like, but this should really be more of a Airport Shuttle, and use the express buses, but lower end indoors, and dual level.

 

 

Sure, as soon as you write the check for these new buses we can roll them right out LOL

[MHV9218]

Took the M60 for the first time with the new setup, maybe it was just me but that felt a whole lot faster than it used to be and the increased crowding at the other stops barely held us up. The op with 1287 was hauling too, started overtaking other cars on the RFK, going faster than the left lane was moving.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

IMO the M60 should use MCI buses, something that would NEVER happen

[Gorgor]

IMO the M60 should use MCI buses, something that would NEVER happen

 

 

Yes, because having only one door and forcing people headed to the airport to carry their luggage up a bunch of narrow steps, and then possibly taking up room in the aisle with it, is much better.

[FamousNYLover]

I agree.

When I had 7-Day Express Plus, I went to greet my Japanese friends at JFK Airport, which they were staying at Hilton Hotel.

We decided to take QM15 bus at Rockaway Blvd and we boarded MCI with two suitcases.

It was very diffucult.

 

I agree unlike Hampton Jitney B/Os, MTA B/O will not leave their seat to take their suitcase into luggage rack.

[SouthernRailway]

I usually take (and dislike) the M60 from Astoria Blvd. to LGA, but for the first time, I rode it along 125th Street between Columbia U. and Lexington Ave. last night. I was really surprised by how many people just jumped on the bus through the back doors and not paying for their rides. I live in Midtown and almost never see that happen on local bus routes that I take, and I rarely see it on the M60 once it's between Lexington Avenue and LGA.

 

A SBS-type service would at least help reduce theft like that, to the extent that there is enough police supervision (which I hope there will be).

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yes, because having only one door and forcing people headed to the airport to carry their luggage up a bunch of narrow steps, and then possibly taking up room in the aisle with it, is much better.

 

Umm you can put the baggage in the bottom, where most interstate bus companies use.

[Gorgor]

Umm you can put the baggage in the bottom, where most interstate bus companies use.

 

 

... and severely slow up the route and force the driver to come out at every stop to assist people in storing their luggage.

[FamousNYLover]

Yes, I have seen in Upper East Side, Hampton Jitney B/O has to exit his bus at bus stop to open luggage compartment for people at every its stop.

 

After 3rd Av/85th St, they go to its pickup on 86th St/3rd Av, open luggage compartment to store luggage, then repeat at every HJT Stop.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Umm you can put the baggage in the bottom, where most interstate bus companies use.

 

 

 

Yes, interstate bus companies usually have a 10 minute layover per stop which makes it easier to load and unload from the cargo hold. When you have to be from end to end in one hour with a bunch of stops in between, that no longer becomes an option for effective service.

 

And lets not even get to the security risks......

[prgordo]

FYI

 

A small change effective immediately

going eastbound towards LGA

after 77 st go all the way left to 23 ave

no more straight till 82 st then left then right on 23 ave

[Mysterious2train]

Makes sense given the stop at 82nd and Astoria Blvd was cut.

[BZGuy]

Yes, interstate bus companies usually have a 10 minute layover per stop which makes it easier to load and unload from the cargo hold. When you have to be from end to end in one hour with a bunch of stops in between, that no longer becomes an option for effective service.

 

And lets not even get to the security risks......

 

 

10 minutes at each stop? hahahaha

 

Look at the Greyhound or Peter Pan schedules.....the locals arrive and depart stops at the same time....we unload and load and keep rolling. Although I agree MCIs on the M60 would be a disaster.

[Nova RTS 9147]

10 minutes at each stop? hahahaha

 

Look at the Greyhound or Peter Pan schedules.....the locals arrive and depart stops at the same time....we unload and load and keep rolling. Although I agree MCIs on the M60 would be a disaster.

 

 

Do you guys also use the bottom storage compartments? And I'm just speaking from experience with Greyhound and their long distance routes.

[BZGuy]

Do you guys also use the bottom storage compartments? And I'm just speaking from experience with Greyhound and their long distance routes.

 

 

Yes we use the baggage bays. But very rarely is time scheduled in for loading and unloading at stops. I do the New York to Williamstown local which is 13 stops. The only stop I have a layover at is Pittsfield and that's just to hold time for the connection from the east. Other than that it's "turn and burn" everywhere else.

 

Greyhound does schedule some layovers on their long distance locals but that's either to:

A:) Give the passengers a rest break

B:) Allow time for a driver swap or coach servicing

C:) Allow for connecting buses

 

10 minutes at every stop may have been the norm 20-30 years ago, not now.

[Mysterious2train]

Latest update on the M60 SBS has a list of tentative stops: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2013-01-23-sbs-125-cac2-slides.pdf

 

For comparison's sake of which stops are being cut:

 

Old pattern [Pre-August 2012]

Current pattern [since August]

Planned SBS stops

 

Also offset bus lanes and bus bulbs on 125th St, that stuff.

[Guest Charles]

Latest update on the M60 SBS has a list of tentative stops: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2013-01-23-sbs-125-cac2-slides.pdf

 

For comparison's sake of which stops are being cut:

 

Old pattern [Pre-August 2012]

Current pattern [since August]

Planned SBS stops

 

Also offset bus lanes and bus bulbs on 125th St, that stuff.

I don't have much of an issue with the Queens stops, honestly the M60 isn't that bad in Queens once it leaves Steinway.

 

Manhattan stops: I'm surprised they got rid of the 120th St stop, they should've kept it. It's a pretty far walk from 116 St to 125/Amsterdam, especially given the hilly terrain of the area.

 

I would also actually consider removing the Park Av stop from the SBS list, as Lexington is actually a block away and that stretch between 5th and Lexington is particularly slow traffic-wise (actually, all of 125 is, who am I kidding). I don't know the exact figures for people transferring from MNRR to the 60 (presumably for a connection to LGA), but the many times I have taken the 60, I don't see the Park Av stop being justified as one for SBS.

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't have much of an issue with the Queens stops, honestly the M60 isn't that bad in Queens once it leaves Steinway.

 

Manhattan stops: I'm surprised they got rid of the 120th St stop, they should've kept it. It's a pretty far walk from 116 St to 125/Amsterdam, especially given the hilly terrain of the area.

 

I would also actually consider removing the Park Av stop from the SBS list, as Lexington is actually a block away and that stretch between 5th and Lexington is particularly slow traffic-wise (actually, all of 125 is, who am I kidding). I don't know the exact figures for people transferring from MNRR to the 60 (presumably for a connection to LGA), but the many times I have taken the 60, I don't see the Park Av stop being justified as one for SBS.

some do use M60 from MNRR not worth cutting.

[Guest Charles]

some do use M60 from MNRR not worth cutting.

yeah, I figured, but then again it's BRT/SBS.

 

You're gonna have to make some sacrifices somewhere. Does the "some," as you point out, represent enough riders to merit keeping the stop? If I were to argue from a proximity point of view, it's pretty obvious that the Park Av stop should be cut, seeing as how Lexington is just down the block, and there is no way in hell Park gets more ridership than Lexington. A stop like 120th, which consistently has at least almost 10 waiting exclusively for the 60 is the kind of stop that deserves SBS. How many people who get on at Park actually need the 60? I've been there often enough to say that the people who need the 60 clearly aren't going to LGA, haven't seen someone with a suitcase board there in weeks (months? hell, years?). Would the walk to Lexington honestly kill you?