New Jersey Transit - Random Thoughts Thread

[R10 2952]

Yeah, that whole area of Monmouth County (especially around Freehold proper) has always struck me as a transit desert.  No southbound service on the rush-hour routes along US 9 in the AM, spotty service between Freehold and the shore (at best), and no westbound service at all.  One would think a case could be made for bus service to Princeton Junction or Trenton, but considering the local politicians around there can't even agree on reactivating that rail line that goes through the town center, I think things will stay as-is for the foreseeable future.

Edited December 11, 2021 by R10 2952

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

There's a NABI on the 160 right now. Interesting since I've only seen MCIs on it.

[B35 via Church]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:58 AM, Lawrence St said:

I've taken the 748 as part of a redesign thing I'm doing and every 748 trip I've ridden out of Pompton Lakes has had 0 people. 

Then again, New Jersey Transit is short on bus operators so there are suppose to be 3 trips in total but only one runs each day.

The 748 also is just a weird route in general. Idk why the thing dosent short turn in Haledon instead of going all the way down to City Hall during late nights.

Whether it's the Pompton Lakes trips or the Willowbrook Mall trips, IDK why the thing continues to function as is, period.... I would break the thing up into several routes, but that's besides the point....

On 12/2/2021 at 12:58 PM, Lawrence St said:

This was part of the redesign plan I was doing, but I'll take a section out for the 772. @B35 via Church let me know your thoughts:

Quote

The new 772 has been split into 3 separate branches:

772: American Dream to Hackensack Bus Terminal (6:20 AM to 10:30 PM, 7 days a week). Weekend service operates bi-hourly.

772G: Carlstadt-Gotham Pkwy to Hackensack Bus Terminal (Rush Hours Only)

772M: American Dream to New Milford-Madison Av (Two trips each weekday only).

This reduces the duplication of bus service along Teaneck Road since almost no one rides the 772 along that stretch, and most people go for the 780 or the 182.

The 772G can be interlined with the 703 since they both end in the same place. 

The 772M keeps rush hour service to New Milford for people going to the college.

I generally like what you're doing here, but I think more can be done with the differing portions of the thing (772)....

- I detest the current #772 trips that run back & forth b/w American Dream & Hackensack, so I wouldn't leave that as is.... As Hackensack gets that much closer to being fully gentrified, there'll be a notable increase in patronage to/from the mall... Until then, it's not going to come close to seeing the ridership explosion that the #85 got when it was extended to the mall (which is what I believe NJT was banking on)..... Otherwise, the thing sees a little better than straggler level in Little Ferry & Moonachie..... You've expressed a certain gripe with its (772) weekday stint via Gotham Pkwy. outside of peak hrs (I'm not implicating that you don't have a case in saying that), but for the amt. of those short turn #772's I've been on, I've been the only person getting on AND off at the mall itself much more often than not.... I say that to say, I have way more of a gripe with its poor usage at American Dream....... Regardless (and speaking of which), I would try my hand at tapping into some of that ridership explosion the #85 got, and then some...

- I can concur with the general idea of your #772G, but I wouldn't end it at Gotham Pkwy.... I would have an industrial route of sorts serve more of industrial Carlstadt while connecting it to a nearby rail station...

- I'd take the portion of the #772 b/w Hackensack - Paramus & turn it into a branch of the #762... I wouldn't relegate the #772 north of Hackensack to only rush hour service, large in part for the college.... I'd have a select amt. of trips running to Bergen CC throughout the day, with the remaining trips ending at Paramus Park Mall (which is another area that's going to see a ridership spike in the upcoming years).... While GSP mall is the superior mall up there in Paramus, there has been a certain/noticeable migration/influx of ppl. heading out to Paramus Park Mall to avoid the chaos at GSP mall..... I remember when Paramus Park Mall was dead as shit, well before they started renovating it..... In certain spots, there were weeds growing up from the asphalt in parts of the parking lot - some parts more than others....

==============

 

FWIW, I drew a map to illustrate those 3 bullet points... For the sake of discussion, I broke up the real #772 into the [#762] & the [#772] - with the former split running north of Hackensack & the latter running south of Hackensack....

The [#762] is branched to run b/w Hackensack Term. & Bergen CC via [the current #762 to Paramus Park Mall, with an extension to Bergen CC] or via [the current #772 to New Bridge Medical Center, then via the #762 to Paramus Park Mall, then down From Rd. to do the current #772 "from" that point, towards Bergen CC]... Things of note here is that buses would terminate at the Student Center, instead of at Ender Hall (like the #751/#755 does on Saturdays)..... Also, nothing would short turn in New Milford; the trips that would do so, would do so at Paramus Park Mall instead....

The [#772] would be a service running b/w Hackensack Term. & Secaucus Wal-mart via American Dream.... Something else I would do, is to have it serve Plaza Center (Secaucus) & Teterboro Landing.... The difference b/w the #85 & this rendition of a [#772] b/w the Wal-mart & American Dream is that the [#772] would locally serve Secaucus (as in, serving actual residents)... The #85 OTOH goes straight to American Dream after Mill Creek, which suffices for that route, coming up from Hoboken & Union City...... My problem with the current #772 b/w American Dream & Hackensack is that its in dire need of more riderbases.... As for the Gotham Pkwy. portion, while I still think there should be *some* semblance of off peak service in that area, for the most part, I'd have this special variant run during peak times b/w Hackensack Term. & Rutherford RR.... These trips would be dubbed [#772GR]... Some of those trips would serve Commerce Blvd. & some wouldn't...

For the [#772] & the [#772GR], I drew each direction (NB, SB) in separate layers.... The [#762] branches I only drew the NB directions for, in separate layers.... For reference purposes, I also drew the real #85 snippet b/w the Secaucus Wal-Mart & American Dream... All layers are not active on the map (clarity reasons), so you'll have to select/deselect whichever layers you want to view....

>> Map here <<

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There's a NABI on the 160 right now. Interesting since I've only seen MCIs on it.

Not surprised.... Not only have I've seen the local fleet being used on the #160 (via MyBusNow) a couple times. but I've actually been on one out of PABT.... Didn't bother me much, since I've done the #107 (a route that you're not catching an MCI on) numerous times....  

On 12/7/2021 at 2:01 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

Can someone review my proposals in the proposal thread please 

https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/35392-njt-proposalsideas-thread-2012-2013/?do=findComment&comment=1110494

https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/35392-njt-proposalsideas-thread-2012-2013/?do=findComment&comment=1110518

https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/35392-njt-proposalsideas-thread-2012-2013/?do=findComment&comment=1111141

- I've commented on your #113 idea around the time you originally presented it on here, however many years ago it was....

- I don't quite get your argument for splitting off the Stanley Terrace branch of the #94.... Are you trying to say that it deserves more service & that splitting it off into its own route would aid in a service increase?

- FYI. the garage in Paterson is Market street (garage)..... In any event, you can't claim geographical accuracy when literally none of your Central Division garages are in the central part of the state

[Lawrence St]

30 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Not surprised.... Not only have I've seen the local fleet being used on the #160 (via MyBusNow) a couple times. but I've actually been on one out of PABT.... Didn't bother me much, since I've done the #107 (a route that you're not catching an MCI on) numerous times....  

- I've commented on your #113 idea around the time you originally presented it on here, however many years ago it was....

- I don't quite get your argument for splitting off the Stanley Terrace branch of the #94.... Are you trying to say that it deserves more service & that splitting it off into its own route would aid in a service increase?

- FYI. the garage in Paterson is Market street (garage)..... In any event, you can't claim geographical accuracy when literally none of your Central Division garages are in the central part of the state

Anyone who chooses to drive a bus in Downtown Paterson is a hero in my book, I wouldn't go anywhere near there with a 10 foot pole, let alone a 45 foot MCI. It's a ****** madhouse overthere!

[Lawrence St]

@B35 via Church I agree with the 748. It's a mess of a route that also travels through roads with no lights and tight clearance spaces. I still don't know who's bright idea it was to have bus stops along a highway. Imagine driving behind a bus at 45 mph and all of a sudden the bus brakes to enter a bus stop, that's an accident waiting to happen.

Regarding the 772, the reason for ending the 772G in Carlsdat is for the same reason the 703 does, no one is riding the route from Carlsdat to American Dream.

The 772 also shouldn't be going to Bergen Comm College, it's a waste of resources that can be applied elsewhere. Hell, it shouldn't even be going along Madison Avenue to New Milford, but since there's nowhere else to turn it, that's the only viable option.

And what's with every bus route in Hackensack going towards Cedar Lane making a big detour via Route 4 instead of just going across the Cedar Lane Bridge?

[553 Bridgeton]

5 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There's a NABI on the 160 right now. Interesting since I've only seen MCIs on it.

Nabis run on the 160 every weekend. Been so for the last couple years. 

[BreeddekalbL]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

 I've commented on your #113 idea around the time you originally presented it on here, however many years ago it was....

- I don't quite get your argument for splitting off the Stanley Terrace branch of the #94.... Are you trying to say that it deserves more service & that splitting it off into its own route would aid in a service increase?

- FYI. the garage in Paterson is Market street (garage)..... In any event, you can't claim geographical accuracy when literally none of your Central Division garages are in the central part of the state

Regarding Stanley terrace yeah cause it's like the 94 is Saturated to linden and Union Center then there is a drop to Stanley terrace the balance of the service is 95/5 

Yeah cause Howell belongs in the south

Also what do you say for another proposal that I tucked in there regarding adding trips each way?

Edited December 12, 2021 by BreeddekalbL

[553 Bridgeton]

The only garage that’s technically in central jersey is Hamilton Garage, and even that’s a hairline into central. NJ is literally a north and south. People that say central want to feel important that they don’t live in north or south. The south-north split is on a weird angle around Long Branch going through freehold and back west just under Hamilton but north of Trenton. 

[FlxMtroD]

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

@B35 via Church I agree with the 748. It's a mess of a route that also travels through roads with no lights and tight clearance spaces. I still don't know who's bright idea it was to have bus stops along a highway. Imagine driving behind a bus at 45 mph and all of a sudden the bus brakes to enter a bus stop, that's an accident waiting to happen.

Regarding the 772, the reason for ending the 772G in Carlsdat is for the same reason the 703 does, no one is riding the route from Carlsdat to American Dream.

The 772 also shouldn't be going to Bergen Comm College, it's a waste of resources that can be applied elsewhere. Hell, it shouldn't even be going along Madison Avenue to New Milford, but since there's nowhere else to turn it, that's the only viable option.

And what's with every bus route in Hackensack going towards Cedar Lane making a big detour via Route 4 instead of just going across the Cedar Lane Bridge?

As far as certain bus routes and "out of service" buses going on Route 4 instead of just crossing Cedar Lane Bridge I believe has something to do with weight restrictions. 

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, FlxMtroD said:

As far as certain bus routes and "out of service" buses going on Route 4 instead of just crossing Cedar Lane Bridge I believe has something to do with weight restrictions. 

Weight restrictions? I’m lost, in 2015 all these buses used to cross the bridge so why was there a need to change the routing?

[B35 via Church]

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

@B35 via Church I agree with the 748. It's a mess of a route that also travels through roads with no lights and tight clearance spaces. I still don't know who's bright idea it was to have bus stops along a highway. Imagine driving behind a bus at 45 mph and all of a sudden the bus brakes to enter a bus stop, that's an accident waiting to happen.

Regarding the 772, the reason for ending the 772G in Carlsdat is for the same reason the 703 does, no one is riding the route from Carlsdat to American Dream.

The 772 also shouldn't be going to Bergen Comm College, it's a waste of resources that can be applied elsewhere. Hell, it shouldn't even be going along Madison Avenue to New Milford, but since there's nowhere else to turn it, that's the only viable option.

And what's with every bus route in Hackensack going towards Cedar Lane making a big detour via Route 4 instead of just going across the Cedar Lane Bridge?

If you think the #748 is bad in that category (stops along a highway), then you'll adore the #171 & #175...

Cool, but American Dream has nothing to do with my sentiment of why a #772G of sorts (your #772G) should terminate in industrial Carlstadt.... You're going to need more of a base; it's the same problem with the current #772 short turns, south of Hackensack.... Whether if it's your intent or not, your #772G is essentially an industrial shuttle.... That is why I would have something like that running out to Rutherford RR, partially supplementing the #76M (which only swings as far east within industrial Carlstadt as Gotham Pkwy. itself).... As far as service to Bergen CC, to be perfectly honest, public bus service usage to/from colleges in general have seen a significant decline, due to the push towards getting students to engage in online classes....

The Cedar Lane Bridge has serious structural issues (that's worsened over time), to the point where been a weight restriction put in place (as was stated earlier)... Happened sometime around 2010 IIRC.... Trucks, buses, and other large/heavy vehicles are banned... Last I've read a good while back, there's (supposedly) plans to rebuild the thing in the future.....

13 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Regarding Stanley terrace yeah cause it's like the 94 is Saturated to linden and Union Center then there is a drop to Stanley terrace the balance of the service is 95/5 

Yeah cause Howell belongs in the south

Also what do you say for another proposal that I tucked in there regarding adding trips each way?

- That imbalance exists because it reflects demand south of Irvington on the #94; the Linden branch (including the short turns to Union Center) is far more sought after than the Union - rt. 22 branch... I'm still not sure what level of service you think the Union - rt. 22 branch deserves....

- Howell belonging in the south or whatever doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in your "central division" is in the central part of the state.... I mean, there's simply more bus routes in the northern part of the state, compared to the central & the southern part of the state... It is what it is..... There is no need to try to balance the actual count/number of bus garages per region, if the lion's share of the state's bus routes run within the northern part of the state....

- It's enough that the service spans of the express variants of each of those routes (#113, #114) are what they currently are.....

[B35 via Church]

30 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Weight restrictions? I’m lost, in 2015 all these buses used to cross the bridge so why was there a need to change the routing?

The thing went from two lanes of traffic in each direction with a myriad of bus routes utilizing it, to one lane of traffic in each direction with only cars & vans running on the thing.... They got concrete barriers blocking off the other lane of traffic in each direction... Those folks in the area are lucky that bridge isn't closed altogether.... Now that I'm reading this webpage, the weight limit is 15 tons, so NJT had no choice to reroute all those routes.... An empty 40 footer is around that weight....

[Lawrence St]

46 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The thing went from two lanes of traffic in each direction with a myriad of bus routes utilizing it, to one lane of traffic in each direction with only cars & vans running on the thing.... They got concrete barriers blocking off the other lane of traffic in each direction... Those folks in the area are lucky that bridge isn't closed altogether.... Now that I'm reading this webpage, the weight limit is 15 tons, so NJT had no choice to reroute all those routes.... An empty 40 footer is around that weight....

Ohhhh, now I see why.

I still find it odd how deadheads are also banned from the bridge, but I guess Hackensack County wanted to be safe.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

23 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

Nabis run on the 160 every weekend. Been so for the last couple years. 

Good to know, I wasn't aware of that. I've only used the 160 on weekends a couple times a few years ago, so I presumed it only used MCIs as well. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[46Dover]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:58 AM, Lawrence St said:

I've taken the 748 as part of a redesign thing I'm doing and every 748 trip I've ridden out of Pompton Lakes has had 0 people. 

Then again, New Jersey Transit is short on bus operators so there are suppose to be 3 trips in total but only one runs each day.

The 748 also is just a weird route in general. Idk why the thing dosent short turn in Haledon instead of going all the way down to City Hall during late nights.

The 748 is actually a contract operation by Community Coach.  To your point the ridership is so light I used to drive the 30 ft Novabus RTSs on them.  

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, 46Dover said:

The 748 is actually a contract operation by Community Coach.  To your point the ridership is so light I used to drive the 30 ft Novabus RTSs on them.  

I thought it was reverted back to NJT after Saddle River botched it?

[Lawrence St]

16 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

If you think the #748 is bad in that category (stops along a highway), then you'll adore the #171 & #175...

Cool, but American Dream has nothing to do with my sentiment of why a #772G of sorts (your #772G) should terminate in industrial Carlstadt.... You're going to need more of a base; it's the same problem with the current #772 short turns, south of Hackensack.... Whether if it's your intent or not, your #772G is essentially an industrial shuttle.... That is why I would have something like that running out to Rutherford RR, partially supplementing the #76M (which only swings as far east within industrial Carlstadt as Gotham Pkwy. itself).... As far as service to Bergen CC, to be perfectly honest, public bus service usage to/from colleges in general have seen a significant decline, due to the push towards getting students to engage in online classes....

The Cedar Lane Bridge has serious structural issues (that's worsened over time), to the point where been a weight restriction put in place (as was stated earlier)... Happened sometime around 2010 IIRC.... Trucks, buses, and other large/heavy vehicles are banned... Last I've read a good while back, there's (supposedly) plans to rebuild the thing in the future.....

- That imbalance exists because it reflects demand south of Irvington on the #94; the Linden branch (including the short turns to Union Center) is far more sought after than the Union - rt. 22 branch... I'm still not sure what level of service you think the Union - rt. 22 branch deserves....

- Howell belonging in the south or whatever doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in your "central division" is in the central part of the state.... I mean, there's simply more bus routes in the northern part of the state, compared to the central & the southern part of the state... It is what it is..... There is no need to try to balance the actual count/number of bus garages per region, if the lion's share of the state's bus routes run within the northern part of the state....

- It's enough that the service spans of the express variants of each of those routes (#113, #114) are what they currently are.....

Actually, I was looking through the old 772 schedules and found out that the 772 towards Hackensack were the only buses to actually serve the Hackensack terminal. Anything going towards New Milford or Paramus would skip it. Why it was changed is beyond me.

[biGC323232]

16 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Good to know, I wasn't aware of that. I've only used the 160 on weekends a couple times a few years ago, so I presumed it only used MCIs as well. 

Market street does that with most of there routes....2 weeks ago i decided to take the 171 to GWB and it was an MCI....Last week i did the same thing and  it was a Nabi 6246....LoL

[BreeddekalbL]

19 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

- That imbalance exists because it reflects demand south of Irvington on the #94; the Linden branch (including the short turns to Union Center) is far more sought after than the Union - rt. 22 branch... I'm still not sure what level of service you think the Union - rt. 22 branch deserves....

- Howell belonging in the south or whatever doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in your "central division" is in the central part of the state.... I mean, there's simply more bus routes in the northern part of the state, compared to the central & the southern part of the state... It is what it is..... There is no need to try to balance the actual count/number of bus garages per region, if the lion's share of the state's bus routes run within the northern part of the state....

- It's enough that the service spans of the express variants of each of those routes (#113, #114) are what they currently are.....

1/2 hour or  to an hour service on the stanley terrace/rt 22 branch so they are not at the mercy  of linden to union center saturation

yeah thats a hard one maybe i was being to obsessed about "geographical accuracy"

I understand 

 

[46Dover]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:45 PM, Lawrence St said:

I thought it was reverted back to NJT after Saddle River botched it?

Actually it was the Bergen County lines 751-759 (except the 758-Passaic County) that was under Saddle River control, but NJT gave those lines back to Community.

[Lawrence St]

How bad did Saddle River mess up 17065 that it has to remain at Blackwood for 2 years?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:19 PM, biGC323232 said:

Market street does that with most of there routes....2 weeks ago i decided to take the 171 to GWB and it was an MCI....Last week i did the same thing and  it was a Nabi 6246....LoL

Yeah, I was aware of that with the GWB routes. They put anything on it (NABI or MCI). News to me that they did stuff with the 160. 

 

BTW, does anyone know if Market Street is slated to get any new coach buses? From what I remember I haven't seen Market Street in the list of garages getting new D4500CTs (although that could change). 

Edited December 19, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[553 Bridgeton]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How bad did Saddle River mess up 17065 that it has to remain at Blackwood for 2 years?

When they put those steel rims it f**ked up the suspension. Njt buses are not designed to run with steel rims. A bus with steel rims has to be built from factory; also it adds weight. 18118-119 run like crap. The other 17000s they are still in bad shape.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

When they put those steel rims it f**ked up the suspension. Njt buses are not designed to run with steel rims. A bus with steel rims has to be built from factory; also it adds weight. 18118-119 run like crap. The other 17000s they are still in bad shape.

Yikes…

I wonder if it will ever return in service with that many problems.