Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
RtrainBlues

Have "battery runs" decreased in the past year or two?

Recommended Posts

It sure seems like there are fewer & fewer battery runs.  When there are one or more trains immediately behind a severely late train, it seems a smart decision to give a battery run - speeds things up for everyone involved. And it prevents severe delays from cascading in the opposite direction, if there are no trains at the terminal station to "send back into service."

 

A couple of months ago, there was a G.O. where #4 and #6 trains were running local Grand Central to Brooklyn Bridge.  After a 13 minute wait on a busy weekend afternoon, a severely overcrowded #4 local pulls into Astor Place, even though the digital displays showed a #6 right behind it, followed by another #4 right behind it, and another #6 right behind that.  What was the purpose of running that severely late/overcrowded #4 local all the way to Crown Heights?  It could have made a battery run on the local track, skipping all local stops.

 

Today was a real winner during the afternoon rush.  Due to some incident on the N, Q and R lines, there was a 30-35 minute wait (or more) for a Bay Ridge R train in Brooklyn.  Meanwhile D trains are running regularly, and then three N trains come within a couple of minutes of each other.  One of those D or N trains could have been rerouted down the R line.  Or instead, the R could have made a battery run, such as Atlantic, 9th St, 36th , 59th, 86th, and 95th.  But it made every single local stop, even though there was (at least) one R train immediately behind it.  This caused a 35 minute wait for Bay Ridge passengers, thousands of passengers at 59th St (7 or 8 deep on the platform), and many passengers left behind at 59th since there was simply no more room on the R.  Furthermore, it caused a severe delay in 71 Ave/Queens-bound service since there were no trains to be sent out of 95th.  It is utterly beyond comprehension why a battery run would not apply in this case.  There was (at least) one train directly behind the severely delayed R that could accommodate all passengers whose stop would be skipped.  I honestly think the MTA wants Bay Ridge riders to plead for the weekday shuttle to come sooner than August, so that they can get more reliable service, rather than current delay-prone service that must go all the way from 71st Av/Queens Blvd to Bay Ridge.

 

As an aside, I see the MTA has learned its lessons on catastrophic weekend delays when N, Q and R trains all go thru the tunnel:  R goes via the D & M between DeKalb & Queens Plaza, Jul 13-14 and Jul 20-21.  They are actually doing the right thing here - I'm impressed!

Edited by RtrainBlues
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A "battery run" can only be given from a terminal or yard, and is a series of trains being sent lite to a certain stop in order to restore normal service after a delay (i.e. sending the first (D) train straight to 145, and then sending a second (D) train straight to Tremont right behind it, and then having.a third (D) go in service normally right behind the other two). What you are referring to is a "skip-stop run". This is yet another vocabulary term that has shown up on TA tests, and MANY employees seem to get it wrong too.....

 

Anyway, skips are going being given as a last resort lately, and without going into work politics, it's something that has been a lot more frowned upon lately by the powers that be. But for the record, yesterday I did hear an (R) being given a skip from 77 to 59 to 36 to 9 to Pacific yesterday afternoon after it left the terminal late.

Edited by Snowblock
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(6) trains running express on the local tracks 14th to 42nd still happens, and 59th to 86th is common enough to hear people mumble "not this [explicative]ing [explicative] again..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a skip-stop it on the (6) a few times in the last few months. Used to have it relatively often on the (R) in the mornings, but rarely anymore. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two years ago, a Jamaica Center-bound R42 (J) was late. It stop at Alabama, then skipped to Crescent, then Woodhaven and then Sutphin. All this was to get to its Jamaica Center terminal on time to get back on schedule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MTA has admitted that such runs have decreased, in the name of improving wait assessment and placing less of a concern on OTP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my purely anecdotal experience, definitely. Honesty, service for my morning commute (6 train at 7:30 am) has been better over the last six months than I can ever remember before. Part of that's just random luck, but I do notice that I see a lot more trains running late staying late than I used to. 2010 or so, if the 6 was two or more minutes late you'd see a skip-stop run without a doubt. These days trains just run a little late, but I'd say 9 days out of 10 my train comes at the exact same minute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, there is a lot less skipping than in the past on the (1) in Upper Manhattan.  The only problem is that the trains still get delayed northbound in the PM rush, so basically the 'powers that be' removed the remedy without really fixing the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure seems like there are fewer & fewer battery runs. When there are one or more trains immediately behind a severely late train, it seems a smart decision to give a battery run - speeds things up for everyone involved. And it prevents severe delays from cascading in the opposite direction, if there are no trains at the terminal station to "send back into service."

 

A couple of months ago, there was a G.O. where #4 and #6 trains were running local Grand Central to Brooklyn Bridge. After a 13 minute wait on a busy weekend afternoon, a severely overcrowded #4 local pulls into Astor Place, even though the digital displays showed a #6 right behind it, followed by another #4 right behind it, and another #6 right behind that. What was the purpose of running that severely late/overcrowded #4 local all the way to Crown Heights? It could have made a battery run on the local track, skipping all local stops.

 

Today was a real winner during the afternoon rush. Due to some incident on the N, Q and R lines, there was a 30-35 minute wait (or more) for a Bay Ridge R train in Brooklyn. Meanwhile D trains are running regularly, and then three N trains come within a couple of minutes of each other. One of those D or N trains could have been rerouted down the R line. Or instead, the R could have made a battery run, such as Atlantic, 9th St, 36th , 59th, 86th, and 95th. But it made every single local stop, even though there was (at least) one R train immediately behind it. This caused a 35 minute wait for Bay Ridge passengers, thousands of passengers at 59th St (7 or 8 deep on the platform), and many passengers left behind at 59th since there was simply no more room on the R. Furthermore, it caused a severe delay in 71 Ave/Queens-bound service since there were no trains to be sent out of 95th. It is utterly beyond comprehension why a battery run would not apply in this case. There was (at least) one train directly behind the severely delayed R that could accommodate all passengers whose stop would be skipped. I honestly think the MTA wants Bay Ridge riders to plead for the weekday shuttle to come sooner than August, so that they can get more reliable service, rather than current delay-prone service that must go all the way from 71st Av/Queens Blvd to Bay Ridge.

 

As an aside, I see the MTA has learned its lessons on catastrophic weekend delays when N, Q and R trains all go thru the tunnel: R goes via the D & M between DeKalb & Queens Plaza, Jul 13-14 and Jul 20-21. They are actually doing the right thing here - I'm impressed!

So that would explain why i saw that (R) train on the bridge yesterday afternoon...on the 6 Av side at that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So that would explain why i saw that (R) train on the bridge yesterday afternoon...on the 6 Av side at that...

and why (D) trains were going to 95th...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure seems like there are fewer & fewer battery runs.  When there are one or more trains immediately behind a severely late train, it seems a smart decision to give a battery run - speeds things up for everyone involved. And it prevents severe delays from cascading in the opposite direction, if there are no trains at the terminal station to "send back into service."

 

A couple of months ago, there was a G.O. where #4 and #6 trains were running local Grand Central to Brooklyn Bridge.  After a 13 minute wait on a busy weekend afternoon, a severely overcrowded #4 local pulls into Astor Place, even though the digital displays showed a #6 right behind it, followed by another #4 right behind it, and another #6 right behind that.  What was the purpose of running that severely late/overcrowded #4 local all the way to Crown Heights?  It could have made a battery run on the local track, skipping all local stops.

 

Today was a real winner during the afternoon rush.  Due to some incident on the N, Q and R lines, there was a 30-35 minute wait (or more) for a Bay Ridge R train in Brooklyn.  Meanwhile D trains are running regularly, and then three N trains come within a couple of minutes of each other.  One of those D or N trains could have been rerouted down the R line.  Or instead, the R could have made a battery run, such as Atlantic, 9th St, 36th , 59th, 86th, and 95th.  But it made every single local stop, even though there was (at least) one R train immediately behind it.  This caused a 35 minute wait for Bay Ridge passengers, thousands of passengers at 59th St (7 or 8 deep on the platform), and many passengers left behind at 59th since there was simply no more room on the R.  Furthermore, it caused a severe delay in 71 Ave/Queens-bound service since there were no trains to be sent out of 95th.  It is utterly beyond comprehension why a battery run would not apply in this case.  There was (at least) one train directly behind the severely delayed R that could accommodate all passengers whose stop would be skipped.  I honestly think the MTA wants Bay Ridge riders to plead for the weekday shuttle to come sooner than August, so that they can get more reliable service, rather than current delay-prone service that must go all the way from 71st Av/Queens Blvd to Bay Ridge.

This just gives them more of an excuse to push for more express bus service and also get the X28 restored on weekends. Service on the (R) has been abysmal for YEARS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So that would explain why i saw that (R) train on the bridge yesterday afternoon...on the 6 Av side at that...

 

Yeah when I was waiting at 47-50 I saw southbound (R) trains on the express tracks - Although not too many of them. The announcement said "select" brooklyn bound R trains were running over the (F) line from 36 st (qns) to 57 st, then via the (D) from 47-50 to Dekalb. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MTA has admitted that such runs have decreased, in the name of improving wait assessment and placing less of a concern on OTP.

 

If there's a severe delay, then they end up delaying the first train (having to pick up more and more passengers), and so the wait times increase at stations further down the line (not to mention in the reverse direction if the trains end up leaving the terminal late).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must of got lucky last year when I boarded an (A) at 207th Street that was running late, so it skipped stops until it got to 168th. Throughout my two months in the city I didn't notice any other skip-stop runs that took place other then that one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am lucky .I took a R62a  6 train today from city hall to union square.There were no stops made between.I took the train on the southbound platform .I was the only person inside the train .Is this a battery run?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One problem I've often seen is that, if a train is given a skip past two or three stations which happen to be typically busy with drop-offs, the train spends so much time at the station prior to the skip, as people on the train have to push their way off (and perhaps an express pulls in and makes a connection during that time, only adding to the confusion), that it would have been faster to just make the regular stops. So perhaps that's why they've become less common.

 

A skip is less problematic past stations where people mostly get on, but those usually come near the beginning of the line, before the lateness has had a chance to get bad.

 

In the Bay Ridge case, perhaps it would have made sense to send an N down the local track a few minutes ahead of the R. Then the R, which wouldn't have been terribly crowded with people going to the local stops between Atlantic and 59th, could have had a skip without having to worry about large numbers of confused riders holding the doors.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On my way home from school this year (sept2012-june2013) there were a couple days wear the (1) would go from 157-Dyckman, Dyckman-231 and as I got off at 231 I'd hear the C/R say the next & last stop was 242. And I think once or twice I got lucky and the train went from 207 to 168 in the morning. I really do miss the (9) and do think it should be restored... Sometimes the wait for an uptown (1) around 59-86 could be hell!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On my way home from school this year (sept2012-june2013) there were a couple days wear the (1) would go from 157-Dyckman, Dyckman-231 and as I got off at 231 I'd hear the C/R say the next & last stop was 242. And I think once or twice I got lucky and the train went from 207 to 168 in the morning. I really do miss the (9) and do think it should be restored... Sometimes the wait for an uptown (1) around 59-86 could be hell!

 

The reason why (9) service was discontinued was because stations were waiting exceptionally long for trains... restoring it would not make that problem better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The (9) will not work as mentioned above. A better solution would be to increase the amount of (1) trains running, but that is limited due to the fact that (1) trains have to temporarily use the South Ferry loop due to Hurricane Sandy. Loops terminals have less capacity than other types of terminals....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

(6) trains running express on the local tracks 14th to 42nd still happens, and 59th to 86th is common enough to hear people mumble "not this [explicative]ing [explicative] again..."

At least over 10 yrs ago (damn time flies by fast) my s/b 5 train was routed from the express to local track at 42nd st. I don't remember the reason, maybe too much traffic on  the express. So we then run express via the local and switch back at 14th st. Whatever the reason, my train didn't overtake the 4 ahead of it and we didn't really save any time at all. to this day this seemed really odd why they bothered.

 

a couple of years ago a Lefferts bound A I was on was announcing that the train was going to run local all the way from Hoyt. I got off and luckily got an R32 A express to Rockaway Park. While on that train, I didn't see any C trains in front of it and dunno what was going on. 

Edited by Grand Concourse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(6) trains running express on the local tracks 14th to 42nd still happens, and 59th to 86th is common enough to hear people mumble "not this [explicative]ing [explicative] again..."

 

I missed this...definitely true. Nowhere near as bad this year though. Back in, maybe 2011, you'd have the skip from 86th to 125th very frequently and everybody (including me) would go apeshit. That skip is a particularly bad one, as you've got a huge number of riders going to 96th and many more boarding at 103-116. Skipping 23rd or 33rd messes up vastly fewer commutes and saves a decent amount of time. This year they learned their lesson and would go express after 96th, a much better move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had one several days ago, (R) only stopping at Elmhurst Avenue, Woodhaven Blvd, and 71st Avenue after Roosevelt (I was like yes because I was running late, and everyone was looking at me like lol.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there an appropriate term for trains skipping stops due to lateness? Trains that do that from midtown Manhattan towards the end of the line seem to be much more common than a train doing a battery run from the terminal towards midtown Manhattan.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least over 10 yrs ago (damn time flies by fast) my s/b 5 train was routed from the express to local track at 42nd st. I don't remember the reason, maybe too much traffic on  the express. So we then run express via the local and switch back at 14th st. Whatever the reason, my train didn't overtake the 4 ahead of it and we didn't really save any time at all. to this day this seemed really odd why they bothered.

 

a couple of years ago a Lefferts bound A I was on was announcing that the train was going to run local all the way from Hoyt. I got off and luckily got an R32 A express to Rockaway Park. While on that train, I didn't see any C trains in front of it and dunno what was going on. 

 

For your first case, I can't say much since you don't know the details. But let's say that your situation stays the same except that the cause for the service change is due to mechanical problems on that 4 train, or a signal problem somewhere before Union Square and before the double crossover. Would you still find the situation to be strange then?

 

Your second case seems to be the common move of getting express trains to run local when there's a gap in local service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On my way home from school this year (sept2012-june2013) there were a couple days wear the (1) would go from 157-Dyckman, Dyckman-231 and as I got off at 231 I'd hear the C/R say the next & last stop was 242. And I think once or twice I got lucky and the train went from 207 to 168 in the morning. I really do miss the (9) and do think it should be restored... Sometimes the wait for an uptown (1) around 59-86 could be hell!

The (9) will not work as mentioned above. A better solution would be to increase the amount of (1) trains running, but that is limited due to the fact that (1) trains have to temporarily use the South Ferry loop due to Hurricane Sandy. Loops terminals have less capacity than other types of terminals....

Once the (9) was discontinued, those old (9) ruins simply became extra (1) trains so its pretty much at the same level it was before

 

...give or take an added train or 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.