Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:55 PM, engineerboy6561 said:

My argument about that is that with subway service extended beyond Flushing and Jamaica we can look at deemphasizing Jamaica and Flushing in the Queens bus network. As an example, Hillside Av coming into Jamaica carries the Q1, Q2, Q3, Q17, Q36, Q43, Q76 and Q77. There's no need to have all of these buses come all the way into Jamaica once there's subway service out to Hillside/Springfield and Merrick/233 St. You can leave the Q43 as the Hillside Av bus, but you could eliminate the Q2 and have the Q17 take over the Q2 route south of Hillside Av, and you could do the same thing with the Q76 and Q77 (eliminate the Q77 and extend the Q76 down to 147 Av) with no actual change to Q76 runtime. The Q36 could just run full time from Little Neck Parkway to 212 St/Hillside Av and the Q1 Springfield and Braddock segments could be replaced by the Q88. On Merrick, the Q4 could continue west on Linden to Rockaway Blvd and end at Rockaway Blvd train station, and most people wouldn't mind as much because they'd still be connecting to the trains.

Expanding the reach of the subway network won't deemphasize Jamaica & Flushing as hubs in the bus network...... Something quite drastic would have to happen to those two neighborhoods that is completely separate of anything public transportation related for that to happen....

21 hours ago, Lex said:

Because no one rides to Jamaica/Flushing for the sake of reaching Jamaica/Flushing...

I see no shortage of people taking Bx4's in/out of the Hub (area), B25's in/out of Downtown Brooklyn, or Bx1/2's along the Concourse either.....

Edited April 27, 2020 by B35 via Church

[shiznit1987]

Here's another Queens Blvd plus Broadway De-interlining idea coming at ya:

 96st-2nd Ave to Coney Island via Broadway Express

 Parsons-Archer to Coney Island via QB Express, 63rd St, Broadway Express

 Astoria-Ditmars to Bay Ridge via Broadway Local

 Unchanged

 QB Local to Forest Hills via 53rd St, 8th Ave Local

 Unchanged

So you have zero merges on Broadway, No merge at 36th st, and No merge at Queens Plaza. You do however add a merge at 63rd-Lex. 

 

 

 

[Collin]

I don't think removing every merge is necessary.  Swapping the and  tunnels would remove the Queens Plaza merge, but the 36th Street merge would be with the less frequent local services.  The locals can also hold at 36th Street which is less disruptive than the express trains stopping in the middle of the local station.

Keep in mind how QB was originally designed to operate.  All express service was to go via 53rd to either 6th or 8th.  Local service was to go via Crosstown.  Later a connection to Broadway was added to allow local station customers a one seat ride to Manhattan.  Prior to the 63rd Street Connector in 2001, it continued to operate like this.  While it was more efficient because the express and local services never interacted, it meant that less trains went into Manhattan than are able to now.  The plan discussed in the other thread would fully separate the local and express, except when the  and  run together in Manhattan.  All express trains would go via 53rd, and all local trains would go via 60th or 63rd.  It might even be possible to bring back  service to QB with CBTC operational.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Expanding the reach of the subway network won't deemphasize Jamaica & Flushing as hubs in the bus network...... Something quite drastic would have to happen to those two neighborhoods that is completely separate of anything public transportation related for that to happen....

I see no shortage of people taking Bx4's in/out of the Hub (area), B25's in/out of Downtown Brooklyn, or Bx1/2's along the Concourse either.....

No doubt Jamaica and Flushing will continue to be hubs in the bus network even with expanding the subways further into eastern Queens. But by sending the , ,  or  further east, fewer bus routes would need to be converging onto the main streets leading into and out of central Jamaica and Flushing. For example, there wouldn’t be a need to have up to eight local bus routes on Hillside Avenue past 179th St (not including the NICE routes since those operate “sealed” until they get to the Nassau county line. Certainly some routes would be cut back to the nearest  station if it were to be extended past 179th. But I don’t think it would be anything dramatic that would diminish Jamaica or Flushing for bus riders.

1 hour ago, shiznit1987 said:

Here's another Queens Blvd plus Broadway De-interlining idea coming at ya:

 96st-2nd Ave to Coney Island via Broadway Express

 Parsons-Archer to Coney Island via QB Express, 63rd St, Broadway Express

 Astoria-Ditmars to Bay Ridge via Broadway Local

 Unchanged

 QB Local to Forest Hills via 53rd St, 8th Ave Local

 Unchanged

So you have zero merges on Broadway, No merge at 36th st, and No merge at Queens Plaza. You do however add a merge at 63rd-Lex. 

 

 

 

That merge at 63rd-Lex could become a potential bottleneck given how frequently the  runs and how potentially more frequently the  would have to run if you run it by itself up 2nd. The potential to run more  service would be gone as well.

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, shiznit1987 said:

Here's another Queens Blvd plus Broadway De-interlining idea coming at ya:

 96st-2nd Ave to Coney Island via Broadway Express

 Parsons-Archer to Coney Island via QB Express, 63rd St, Broadway Express

 Astoria-Ditmars to Bay Ridge via Broadway Local

 Unchanged

 QB Local to Forest Hills via 53rd St, 8th Ave Local

 Unchanged

So you have zero merges on Broadway, No merge at 36th st, and No merge at Queens Plaza. You do however add a merge at 63rd-Lex. 

Mind if I ask, how many TPH is each line getting under this proposal, I'm a bit curious. 

9 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

No doubt Jamaica and Flushing will continue to be hubs in the bus network even with expanding the subways further into eastern Queens. But by sending the , ,  or  further east, fewer bus routes would need to be converging onto the main streets leading into and out of central Jamaica and Flushing. For example, there wouldn’t be a need to have up to eight local bus routes on Hillside Avenue past 179th St (not including the NICE routes since those operate “sealed” until they get to the Nassau county line. Certainly some routes would be cut back to the nearest  station if it were to be extended past 179th. But I don’t think it would be anything dramatic that would diminish Jamaica or Flushing for bus riders.

In response to this, if the , , and  were extended beyond Jamaica/Flushing, there are already a few route changes that I'd be able to picture off the top of my head such as the Q65, which could be rerouted to run straight up Parsons. The  I'm not so sure, given that you could either extend it one stop to 168th or swing it to terminate beneath the 165th Bus Terminal. 

That merge at 63rd-Lex could become a potential bottleneck given how frequently the  runs and how potentially more frequently the  would have to run if you run it by itself up 2nd. The potential to run more  service would be gone as well.

Not necessarily since you could do 18  and 12  under @shiznit1987's proposal. 

[bobtehpanda]

17 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Expanding the reach of the subway network won't deemphasize Jamaica & Flushing as hubs in the bus network...... Something quite drastic would have to happen to those two neighborhoods that is completely separate of anything public transportation related for that to happen....

I see no shortage of people taking Bx4's in/out of the Hub (area), B25's in/out of Downtown Brooklyn, or Bx1/2's along the Concourse either.....

I disagree. Some bus routes will always head to Flushing, but I don't necessarily see, say, a 164th or 188th route going to Flushing the way they do now, at least not before intersecting the new subway lines. Same with a route on Farmers or Francis Lewis diverting to Jamaica. This is particularly apt for Flushing though, given how much of a crazy timesink the Kissena slog can be.

I'd imagine a scenario similar to Jackson Heights or Woodhaven Blvd  , where it's still a plenty busy hub, but routes are not necessarily going out of their way to serve those stops specifically.

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

Here's another Queens Blvd plus Broadway De-interlining idea coming at ya:

 96st-2nd Ave to Coney Island via Broadway Express

 Parsons-Archer to Coney Island via QB Express, 63rd St, Broadway Express

 Astoria-Ditmars to Bay Ridge via Broadway Local

 Unchanged

 QB Local to Forest Hills via 53rd St, 8th Ave Local

 Unchanged

So you have zero merges on Broadway, No merge at 36th st, and No merge at Queens Plaza. You do however add a merge at 63rd-Lex. 

The problem is the has no yard in this setup.  That's why it and the were swapped in 1987.  

I would myself do it like this:

moves to the Nassau Line and runs essentially the old "Bankers Special" route between Essex and Bay Ridge 24/7 with yard runs ending and beginning at Broadway Junction on the  and such noted in the schedules. 

also becomes full-time and runs 9th Avenue on the to Astoria as a Broadway Local with yard runs (and also some rush-hour trains) ending and beginning at Bay Parkway or 25th Avenue and during peak-hours, some trains ending and beginning at Whitehall Street.

Like the idea for the and  on this. 

and as you noted don't need to be changed on this. 

[B35 via Church]

9 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I disagree. Some bus routes will always head to Flushing, but I don't necessarily see, say, a 164th or 188th route going to Flushing the way they do now, at least not before intersecting the new subway lines. Same with a route on Farmers or Francis Lewis diverting to Jamaica. This is particularly apt for Flushing though, given how much of a crazy timesink the Kissena slog can be.

I'd imagine a scenario similar to Jackson Heights or Woodhaven Blvd  , where it's still a plenty busy hub, but routes are not necessarily going out of their way to serve those stops specifically.

That's fine, but my argument isn't one of complete preservation, it's one of quantification of deemphasization; this notion that Flushing & Jamaica is going be somehow less important (or have less of a focus being had, if it came down to altering/redrawing) for the bus network with a subway expansion..... To me, it's taking away from how much of a destination the two areas are for a lot of people (regardless of how overrated some deem Downtown Flushing or Jamaica proper as being)....

Relegating Flushing to being akin to Moore terminal IMO, is an overstatement....

13 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

No doubt Jamaica and Flushing will continue to be hubs in the bus network even with expanding the subways further into eastern Queens. But by sending the , ,  or  further east, fewer bus routes would need to be converging onto the main streets leading into and out of central Jamaica and Flushing. For example, there wouldn’t be a need to have up to eight local bus routes on Hillside Avenue past 179th St (not including the NICE routes since those operate “sealed” until they get to the Nassau county line. Certainly some routes would be cut back to the nearest  station if it were to be extended past 179th. But I don’t think it would be anything dramatic that would diminish Jamaica or Flushing for bus riders.

.....is all I'm driving at.

[Jova42R]

Here is my final BRT/LRT proposal for NYC:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18-vHk67dBXap48Nkyv03fmx5u4eYboZ9&usp=sharing

• The rationale behind the routes
  • North Queens LRT
    • to provide service to LGA Airport and along Northern Blvd, relief for the
  • Queensboro Trolley
    • to replace the Q60 and Q101 across the Queensboro Bridge after the Queens Bus Redesign
  • East Queens BRT
    • cheaper alternative to LRT or an  or  extension, but still serves East Queens well
  • Crosstown LRT
    • to provide relief for the Q52+, Q53+, Q11, and Q21 buses. This could also provide a provision for LIRR service.
  • Park Av BRT
    • to provide relief for the , one of the most crowded lines in the country.
  • Cross-Brooklyn BRT
    • to provide rapid bus service to the underserved Central Brooklyn Area
  • Staten Island LRT
    • to provide better transit on the West and North Shores, and to provide a rail link between SI and NJ.
  • Lower Montauk LRT
    • to provide light rail service to the underserved areas of Central Queens and North Brooklyn
• Fleet
  • North Queens LRT
    • CAF Urbos 3
      • no catenary in LGA
  • Queensboro Trolley
    • CAF Urbos 3
      • no catenary on bridge approaches
  • East Queens BRT
    • New Flyer XE60
  • Crosstown LRT
    • CAF Urbos 3
      • no catenary when on LIRR Mainline
  • Park Av BRT
    • New Flyer XE60
  • Cross-Brooklyn BRT
    • New Flyer XE60
  • Staten Island LRT
    • CAF Urbos 3 and Kinki Sharyo LRV (KSLRV shared with HBLR)
  • Lower Montauk LRT
    • CAF Urbos 3
• TPH
  • North Queens LRT
    • LIC-94th: 20TPH
    • LGA Branch: 8TPH
    • Flushing Branch: 12TPH
  • Queensboro Trolley
    • 15TPH
  • East Queens BRT
    • 12BPH
  • Crosstown LRT
    • 12TPH
  • Park Av BRT
    • 15BPH
  • Cross-Brooklyn BRT
    • 15BPH
  • Staten Island LRT
    • St George-Howland Hook: 5TPH
    • St George-Outerbridge: 10TPH
    • Hoboken (via HBLR)-Outerbridge: 5TPH
    • Hoboken (via HBLR)-St George: 7TPH
    • Outerbridge-Howland Hook: 1TPH
  • Lower Montauk LRT
    • Jamaica-Fresh Pond Jct: 18TPH
    • Fresh Pond Jct-E Williamsburg: 8TPH
    • Fresh Pond Jct-LIC: 10TPH

Thoughts @BM5 via Woodhaven@Train92 @GojiMet86 @LaGuardia Link N Tra @OrionVIIonM79 @T to Dyre Avenue @RailBus63?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Jova42R

[T to Dyre Avenue]

18 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The problem is the has no yard in this setup.  That's why it and the were swapped in 1987.  

I would myself do it like this:

moves to the Nassau Line and runs essentially the old "Bankers Special" route between Essex and Bay Ridge 24/7 with yard runs ending and beginning at Broadway Junction on the  and such noted in the schedules. 

also becomes full-time and runs 9th Avenue on the to Astoria as a Broadway Local with yard runs (and also some rush-hour trains) ending and beginning at Bay Parkway or 25th Avenue and during peak-hours, some trains ending and beginning at Whitehall Street.

Like the idea for the and  on this. 

and as you noted don't need to be changed on this. 

You just answered the question to your own problem with the  going to Astoria. Because the Astoria  can do yard runs to/from CI via the  line during off hours just as the  could. And the MTA could - eventually - get on with adapting 38th St Yard (adjacent to 9th Avenue) as a storage yard for  trains, while doing maintenance at CI. 9th Avenue is not a high-ridership station (see the MTA’s own station statistics about this), so there really is no reason to terminate a full-time service there. Not to mention that we don’t really need  express and  local trains fouling up the 4th Avenue Line with a merge at 36th St.

Edited April 28, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Jova42R]

18 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The problem is the has no yard in this setup.  That's why it and the were swapped in 1987.  

I would myself do it like this:

moves to the Nassau Line and runs essentially the old "Bankers Special" route between Essex and Bay Ridge 24/7 with yard runs ending and beginning at Broadway Junction on the  and such noted in the schedules. 

also becomes full-time and runs 9th Avenue on the to Astoria as a Broadway Local with yard runs (and also some rush-hour trains) ending and beginning at Bay Parkway or 25th Avenue and during peak-hours, some trains ending and beginning at Whitehall Street.

Like the idea for the and  on this. 

and as you noted don't need to be changed on this. 

3 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

You just answered the question to your own problem with the  going to Astoria. Because the Astoria  can do yard runs to/from CI via the  line during off hours just as the  could. And the MTA could - eventually - get on with adapting 38th St Yard (adjacent to 9th Avenue) as a storage yard for  trains, while doing maintenance at CI. 9th Avenue is not a high-ridership station (see the MTA’s own station statistics about this), so there really is no reason to terminate a full-time service there. 

why not run the  from an upgraded 36-38 Yard with a connection to 4 av lcl?

[shiznit1987]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:18 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Mind if I ask, how many TPH is each line getting under this proposal, I'm a bit curious. 

First, upon further review, I am going to have the  continue to 96st-2nd Ave and the  run to Jamaica Center. Right now I'm thinking this would be the breakdown: 

 12tph Coney Island to Parsons Archer (Bway Exp, 63rd, QB Exp)

 18tph Coney Island to 96th st-2nd Ave (Bway Exp)

 20tph (Bway Local Astoria-Bay Ridge)

 18tph (Route Unchanged)

 12tph (Route Unchanged)

 18tph (QB Local to Forest Hills)

BTW, this allows for the possibility of maybe ~6tph Cluver Express on the  in Brooklyn

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by shiznit1987
Oops!

[Theli11]

3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

First, upon further review, I am going to have the  continue to 96st-2nd Ave and the  run to Jamaica Center. Right now I'm thinking this would be the breakdown: 

 12tph Coney Island to Parsons Archer (Bway Exp, 63rd, QB Exp)

 18tph Coney Island to 96th st-2nd Ave (Bway Exp)

 20tph (Bway Local Astoria-Bay Ridge)

 18tph (Route Unchanged)

 12tph (Route Unchanged)

 18tph (QB Local to Forest Hills)

BTW, this allows for the possibility of maybe ~6tph Cluver Express on the  in Brooklyn

 

Probably the plan that I like the most, but what are the constraints of making the run local to Parsons Archer, and the run on Hillside on the express track (where the trains run sometimes)?

[MeeP15-9112]

2 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Probably the plan that I like the most, but what are the constraints of making the run local to Parsons Archer, and the run on Hillside on the express track (where the trains run sometimes)?

The hell known as 75 Ave Interlocking. The way the  put it into service was horrible.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

10 hours ago, Jova42R said:

why not run the  from an upgraded 36-38 Yard with a connection to 4 av lcl?

I was thinking something like this. 

6 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

First, upon further review, I am going to have the  continue to 96st-2nd Ave and the  run to Jamaica Center. Right now I'm thinking this would be the breakdown: 

 12tph Coney Island to Parsons Archer (Bway Exp, 63rd, QB Exp)

 18tph Coney Island to 96th st-2nd Ave (Bway Exp)

 20tph (Bway Local Astoria-Bay Ridge)

 18tph (Route Unchanged)

 12tph (Route Unchanged)

 18tph (QB Local to Forest Hills)

BTW, this allows for the possibility of maybe ~6tph Cluver Express on the  in Brooklyn

 

 

But where will the extra  trains turn? The  has enough trouble turning the existing number of trains. The extra ’s can’t turn at Brighton Beach because the  already turns there, unless you cut service on the  and run a  in tandem with the  on the Brighton express tracks. Or deinterline DeKalb with both  and  service via Brighton. Or turn at Ocean Parkway, as @Around the Horn posted. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Around the Horn]

1 minute ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I was thinking something like this. 

But where will the extra  trains turn? The  has enough trouble turning the existing number of trains. The extra ’s can’t turn at Brighton Beach because the  already turns there. 

I mean the center tracks at Ocean Parkway could work...

[engineerboy6561]

18 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I mean the center tracks at Ocean Parkway could work...

Potentially; you'd just need to add Y interlockings on the end of each of the storage tracks that currently run right up to the platform. They're currently configured to be able to store maybe two trains; if you shorten them to 600', then add a Y interlocking folding them both back into the inner and outer tracks, and then add a double crossover just past it then you could turn  trains at Ocean Pkwy without interfering with following  trains or with  trains at Brighton Beach.

[Collin]

I wonder if there's any benefit having a rush hour peak direction express on the  by running Rockaway trains nonstop from Aqueduct Racetrack to Euclid Avenue.  Trains would use the express track between Rockaway Boulevard and Grant Avenue (with extra crossovers added after 80th Street) and bypass Grant Avenue on the local tracks.  Trains to/from Lefferts would continue to make all stops.  I guess it would depend on how much time is saved, whether Lefferts trains alone can handle the load at Rockaway Boulevard, 88th Street, 80th Street, and Grant Avenue, and if there's a significant number of people who ride the train from the Rockaways, then transfer to the train to Lefferts who wouldn't be able to do that under this service pattern.  It would be better if Rockaway Boulevard were converted to 3 track express, but I don't think the cost of doing so would be worth it.

[mrsman]

6 hours ago, Collin said:

I wonder if there's any benefit having a rush hour peak direction express on the  by running Rockaway trains nonstop from Aqueduct Racetrack to Euclid Avenue.  Trains would use the express track between Rockaway Boulevard and Grant Avenue (with extra crossovers added after 80th Street) and bypass Grant Avenue on the local tracks.  Trains to/from Lefferts would continue to make all stops.  I guess it would depend on how much time is saved, whether Lefferts trains alone can handle the load at Rockaway Boulevard, 88th Street, 80th Street, and Grant Avenue, and if there's a significant number of people who ride the train from the Rockaways, then transfer to the train to Lefferts who wouldn't be able to do that under this service pattern.  It would be better if Rockaway Boulevard were converted to 3 track express, but I don't think the cost of doing so would be worth it.

I envisioned something like this in my own head as an alternative to AirTrain, before that was constructed.  My vision required a bit of construction, but justifiable if paid for by Port Authority and would be heavily used if it provided a direct connection to JFK.

One idea is simply like yours to allow for the trains to utilize the existing express tracks.  Not perfect, but it would still save some time for those long Rockaway commutes.

The other idea is to connect the express tracks via a short tunnel from Euclid to Conduit Ave, and then that would head along on an elevated 2 track line following Conduit Avenue to the Rockaway line.  Essentially, this line would bypass all of the local stations and Aqueduct and link directly to Howard Beach and from there continue into JFK.  All Rockaway   trains would then become JFK  trains.  At Howard Beach, there would be a provision for a cross-platform transfer to trains to both Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway.  North of Howard Beach, middle tracks would be used to terminate the Rockawy Park trains, and the Far Rockaway trains would continue north to hit Aqueduct and eventually to be extended along the ROW to the QBL.

While this would introduce a transfer for Rockaway commuters at Howard Beach, the shorter routing and the skipping of stops would save so much time that it would be utilized.  I envisioned that having the direct connection to JFK would be the only way to get PA money into the project.

[bobtehpanda]

13 hours ago, Collin said:

I wonder if there's any benefit having a rush hour peak direction express on the  by running Rockaway trains nonstop from Aqueduct Racetrack to Euclid Avenue.  Trains would use the express track between Rockaway Boulevard and Grant Avenue (with extra crossovers added after 80th Street) and bypass Grant Avenue on the local tracks.  Trains to/from Lefferts would continue to make all stops.  I guess it would depend on how much time is saved, whether Lefferts trains alone can handle the load at Rockaway Boulevard, 88th Street, 80th Street, and Grant Avenue, and if there's a significant number of people who ride the train from the Rockaways, then transfer to the train to Lefferts who wouldn't be able to do that under this service pattern.  It would be better if Rockaway Boulevard were converted to 3 track express, but I don't think the cost of doing so would be worth it.

I can't imagine you'd save more than 1 minutes tops. All trains should really stop at Rockaway Blvd because it's so busy, and then you're skipping three stops total.

Rockaways stations are bottom of the ridership barrel, so I am extremely skeptical of anything that would privilege them at the expense of other riders.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bobtehpanda

[BreeddekalbL]

extension via 21st street 

Would I need to realign the Court Sq station for a potential construction to run it up 21st? 

 Stops on 21st 

21st Queensbridge

35th ave

31st ave

Astoria Blvd

Dimars blvd 

20th ave

Edited May 3, 2020 by BreeddekalbL

[BreeddekalbL]

Queens expansions 

Se queens and western queens extensions / expansion 

Rockaway beach branch gets restored as subway station box for ll 63rd drive built for future junction blvd subway 

proposed E,F,J/Z extensions

Woodhaven proposed for express conversion with provision for HHE service

Junction blvd subway into lga airport (will spar on lga another time)

21st street subway

Proposed   extension  to Rosedale as proposed 

 phased extensions to little neck Pkwy as proposed with extension will be weekday or peak express on hillside 

see above 

/  proposed plans to Hollis

resurrected with Junction Blvd subway to lga 

rerouted down rbb to jfk airport until HHE extension and junction blvd subway comes online 

extended to 179th as local when F gets extended past there 

 

 

 

 

 

[Collin]

The  up Junction Boulevard to LGA is a great idea.  It would link the two airports.  I wonder if it would be better as part of the AirTrain system so it could actually serve the terminals in both airports.

I had some ideas regarding the .  The current service pattern with the  to Euclid,  to Lefferts and Far Rockaway, and  to Rockaway Park makes the most sense based on ridership 95% of the time.  Everyone past Euclid gets express service, and the two higher ridership branches get direct service, while the lowest one gets a shuttle.  

On summer weekends, they run full length  trains from Rockaway Boulevard.  I was thinking that instead of this, it would make sense on summer weekends to have the  serve Lefferts and the  split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park since Rockaway Park ridership is likely higher than Lefferts ridership.  I think this service pattern has been considered for implementation on a full time basis, but I think it works better as an extra service for summer weekends only.  I think what was holding it back from full time implementation was that Lefferts branch customers would lose express service and be stuck with a local, and because the  would need to merge with the  twice.  With less frequent weekend service, and because it wouldn't be a full time service pattern, I don't think these would be issues.

[Deucey]

49 minutes ago, Collin said:

I was thinking that instead of this, it would make sense on summer weekends to have the  serve Lefferts and the  split between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park since Rockaway Park ridership is likely higher than Lefferts ridership.  I think this service pattern has been considered for implementation on a full time basis, but I think it works better as an extra service for summer weekends only.  I think what was holding it back from full time implementation was that Lefferts branch customers would lose express service and be stuck with a local, and because the  would need to merge with the  twice.  With less frequent weekend service, and because it wouldn't be a full time service pattern, I don't think these would be issues.

I have forever thought the “Lefferts would lose express service” rationale to be a weak one. There’s only 5 stops from Euclid to Rockaway that Lefferts riders could wait at to switch to  from  or vice versa, and it’s not like Rockaway  is SRO towards Manhattan at those stations.
 

And if need be, run it as  peak express and do a timed transfer at Euclid for swaps.

 

[mrsman]

6 hours ago, Deucey said:

I have forever thought the “Lefferts would lose express service” rationale to be a weak one. There’s only 5 stops from Euclid to Rockaway that Lefferts riders could wait at to switch to  from  or vice versa, and it’s not like Rockaway  is SRO towards Manhattan at those stations.
 

And if need be, run it as  peak express and do a timed transfer at Euclid for swaps.

 

To me it would seem better to allow more trains down past Euclid.  Maybe not feasible to allow all C trains to go to Lefferts, but more trains would ease some of the crowding on this section (for the Rockaway trains).