New South Ferry station to reopen in June

[Wallyhorse]

So what would happen to City Hall loop?

City Hall loop would still be used weekdays 5:30 AM-8:00 PM in my version as there is no room then for the to run to SF.

 

 

 

Do you know what the real use of the loop should be? It has 2 tracks. So in case of a small jam, the second loop could be used as a buffer zone to hold a train in order to relieve Brooklyn-bound trains north of Bowling Green. The trend nowadays is to remove short platforms from service as well as gap fillers.

 

Also as noted before, the southern exit of Bowling Green is a mere 4 blocks from the southern exit of South Ferry–Whitehall Street. That is a 3~4-minute walk. It is not going to be patronized enough to be worth paying for maintenance of a train and a crew to operate such a train.

And there are people (especially at night and even more so with women based on my experiences) who likely at night for instance prefer to stay on the train to old SF than walk from BG to SF.  As said, the shuttle is a necessary evil in order to have mainly the (and when in Manhattan but not running to Brooklyn) run to old SF in the off-hours, giving lower Manhattan between BG and BB additional service nights and weekends to an area that has seen sharp residential growth, especially in recent years.  

[Mtatransit]

City Hall loop would still be used weekdays 5:30 AM-8:00 PM in my version as there is no room then for the to run to SF.

 

 

 

And there are people (especially at night and even more so with women based on my experiences) who likely at night for instance prefer to stay on the train to old SF than walk from BG to SF.  As said, the shuttle is a necessary evil in order to have mainly the (and when in Manhattan but not running to Brooklyn) run to old SF in the off-hours, giving lower Manhattan between BG and BB additional service nights and weekends to an area that has seen sharp residential growth, especially in recent years.  

People want to get off at SF instead of BG no problem! Transfer at Canal Street

[CenSin]

People want to get off at SF instead of BG no problem! Transfer at Canal Street

That’s a terrible suggestion. The walking distance between the platform and the platform is equal to the walk from Bowling Green to South Ferry. The trains aren’t even scheduled to connect (and won’t be due to the distance) so the amount of walking and average time waiting for the train makes it a worse option than getting off at Bowling Green.

 

 

And there are people (especially at night and even more so with women based on my experiences) who likely at night for instance prefer to stay on the train to old SF than walk from BG to SF.  As said, the shuttle is a necessary evil in order to have mainly the (and when in Manhattan but not running to Brooklyn) run to old SF in the off-hours, giving lower Manhattan between BG and BB additional service nights and weekends to an area that has seen sharp residential growth, especially in recent years.  

If they cannot handle 4 blocks around Bowling Green, then they shouldn’t be traveling since they will likely be walking more than 4 blocks at the other end of their trip. Pretty much any other location in central Manhattan will be 5 Manhattan-blocks from another station on average. South Ferry does not merit such special treatment. Times Square and Grand Central gets a dedicated shuttle just because of the high volume of traffic. Bowling Green and South Ferry will not get the the amount of use proportional to the cost of running it. Even if a public transit agency is supposed to operate at a loss, the cost inefficiency is absurd.

 

Taking all other comments about the downsides into account, how do you argue your proposal’s value?

[Trainmaster5]

I don't think that Wallyhorse realizes that the Bowling Green Shuttle was a two car train with modified doorways. We don't use those types of trainsets any more. Two car platform and a two car train at Bowling Green. The shuttle operation was basically a daytime thing. Late evenings the followed by the used the outside loop with the train. The lack of ridership from the East Side, as well as late/ overnight G.O.s on the East and West sides rendered East Side service problematic as well as the use of newer car equipment. I'm sure that many posters are aware of the track work that has either the or the using the loop overnights. That's why that service was eliminated in the first place. Carry on.

[Mtatransit]

That’s a terrible suggestion. The walking distance between the platform and the platform is equal to the walk from Bowling Green to South Ferry. The trains aren’t even scheduled to connect (and won’t be due to the distance) so the amount of walking and average time waiting for the train makes it a worse option than getting off at Bowling Green.

 

Wallyhorse was talking about operating a train between BG and SF and how some may want to get off at SF (for safety). I argue that if they want  "safety" they could transfer at Canal

[Wallyhorse]

I don't think that Wallyhorse realizes that the Bowling Green Shuttle was a two car train with modified doorways. We don't use those types of trainsets any more. Two car platform and a two car train at Bowling Green.

I know the shuttle was a two-car train with modified doorways that used the inner loop station (that actually I believe was built as a full-length station).  This version of the shuttle would be two cars, but it would switch tracks and use the outer loop station at old SF, then head back to Bowling Green.  Otherwise, the (when running there) and during off-hours would use the outer track as well as they did in the '70s. 

 

Wallyhorse was talking about operating a train between BG and SF and how some may want to get off at SF (for safety). I argue that if they want  "safety" they could transfer at Canal

What I was referring to in those instances was mainly off-hours, when you would have mostly the operate to old SF in this format, NOT the shuttle.   

[Mtatransit]

Alright go to the area around there, and judge how close the stations are... BG is 4 min from Ferry Term. Wall St is 8 min Fulton St is no more than 15. THERE IS NO NEED, I repeat NO NEED for the BG-SF shuttle. There is No need to maintain 2 SF Station. If walking 4 min during off peak was really a issue, transfer at Grand Central or canal St or Fulton St for the train to South Ferry.

[Around the Horn]

I know the shuttle was a two-car train with modified doorways that used the inner loop station (that actually I believe was built as a full-length station).  This version of the shuttle would be two cars, but it would switch tracks and use the outer loop station at old SF, then head back to Bowling Green.  Otherwise, the (when running there) and during off-hours would use the outer track as well as they did in the '70s. 

 

What I was referring to in those instances was mainly off-hours, when you would have mostly the operate to old SF in this format, NOT the shuttle.   

 

May I ask where you are going to get the appropriate rolling stock from?

[P3F]

Actually, that is a bit funky. The closed inner loop at South Ferry is a full 10 cars long, while the open outer loop is only half a train long... What's with that?

[Around the Horn]

Actually, that is a bit funky. The closed inner loop at South Ferry is a full 10 cars long, while the open outer loop is only half a train long... What's with that?

 

I think the inner loop platform was built later.

[Lance]

I think the inner loop platform was built later.

That is correct. The outer loop opened in 1905 when the subway was extended south from Wall St. The inner loop opened when the lower portion of 7th Avenue did back in 1918.

[LongLiveRock]

Wallyhorse was talking about operating a train between BG and SF and how some may want to get off at SF (for safety). I argue that if they want  "safety" they could transfer at Canal

 

Well, Canal Street isn't known for being the safest station

[Wallyhorse]

May I ask where you are going to get the appropriate rolling stock from?

For the BG-SF Shuttle, you likely are looking at maybe 4-5 sets of two-car trains tops (and more likely three since only one would actually be in use at any one time).  This could be done at first with the R62/A,  

 

It's not like the shuttle would need that many cars.  

[Around the Horn]

For the BG-SF Shuttle, you likely are looking at maybe 4-5 sets of two-car trains tops (and more likely three since only one would actually be in use at any one time). This could be done at first with the R62/A,

 

It's not like the shuttle would need that many cars.

My point was that all single R62A cars are currently accounted for.

[CenSin]

Or repurpose the tunnel. Strip the tracks clean off and run a series of moving walkways (like at the airports) to South Ferry from Bowling Green. Of course, you also lose the flexibility from the track connection.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Or repurpose the tunnel. Strip the tracks clean off and run a series of moving walkways (like at the airports) to South Ferry from Bowling Green. Of course, you also lose the flexibility from the track connection.

lol... And we still go back to the idea of it being a walkable distance. from Bowling Green to South Ferry...

[agar io]

Wouldn't trains using the loop platform block trains from entering the island platform due to switch overlap? Or is that incorrect?

[Lawrence St]

Didn't they remove the gap fillers when SF closed back in 2012 and use them at Union Square?

[Around the Horn]

Didn't they remove the gap fillers when SF closed back in 2012 and use them at Union Square?

Yes and no.

They did remove South Ferry's gap fillers however the ones at Union Square are a different design.

[Wallyhorse]

My point was that all single R62A cars are currently accounted for.

That's now.  You don't think they can do a handful of two-car sets?  It's something that ought to be considered anyway so you can for instance run some seven-car trains during hours where 10-car sets are not really necessary (which goes well beyond the shuttle).  

[checkmatechamp13]

That's now.  You don't think they can do a handful of two-car sets?  It's something that ought to be considered anyway so you can for instance run some seven-car trains during hours where 10-car sets are not really necessary (which goes well beyond the shuttle).  

 

So you want to take the time and labor to bring the train back to the yard, decouple it, and then recouple it just because ridership doesn't warrant 10 car trains all the time (which saves you what, maybe a little wear-and-tear and some electricity, some of which is used when heading to/from the yard to perform the operation)?

[Wallyhorse]

So you want to take the time and labor to bring the train back to the yard, decouple it, and then recouple it just because ridership doesn't warrant 10 car trains all the time (which saves you what, maybe a little wear-and-tear and some electricity, some of which is used when heading to/from the yard to perform the operation)?

The idea is you have the flexibility to do that when warranted.

 

Real purpose would be to have such two-car sets for a BG-SF shuttle.  

[CenSin]

Real purpose would be to have such two-car sets for a BG-SF shuttle.  

Which as noted before, is unwarranted.

[Union Tpke]

The idea is you have the flexibility to do that when warranted.

 

Real purpose would be to have such two-car sets for a BG-SF shuttle.  

 

You can just walk the distance. How many times do you have to be told this?

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bowling+Green+Subway+Station,+New+York,+NY/South+Ferry,+New+York,+NY/@40.703188,-74.0147474,18z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c25a13dc297429:0xc7e7f0959c2605ea!2m2!1d-74.0135441!2d40.7046358!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c25a136869b67f:0x4f890c0da00785ae!2m2!1d-74.0129779!2d40.7017448!3e0

[Around the Horn]

That's now.  You don't think they can do a handful of two-car sets?  It's something that ought to be considered anyway so you can for instance run some seven-car trains during hours where 10-car sets are not really necessary (which goes well beyond the shuttle).  

The only single cars nowadays are on the Times Square shuttle. Are you seriously suggesting taking train sets from that shuttle to run another one that wont get a tenth of the ridership?