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JubaionBx12+SBS

April 2018 Schedule Changes

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On page 152, it mentions that there's an appendix that shows the 3-legged bus transfers available, but I don't see that appendix attached.

In any case, it looks like the S93 will be seeing consistent 20 minute headways during middays. Took them long enough to actually realize that (there were/are plenty of buses that were crushloaded or close to it during periods of 30 minute headways. Hopefully they adjust the Brooklyn-bound span a bit (the last bus currently leaves at 9:30PM arrives in Bay Ridge at 10:01PM, and then sits there until the 10:30PM trip. If they moved it 15-20 minutes later, it would accomodate most if not all of the late classes at CSI. Still better than 9:15PM I suppose). A slight decrease in overall weekday service for the S53 (though midday service is seeing a slight boost), which makes sense given the current route structure (i.e. No S83), since the S93 pretty much took all the Brooklyn-bound Concord (especially) and Sunnyside ridership from it.

It mentions that the Bx20 currently operates every 30 minutes in the PM rush, but it appears to operate every 20 minutes according to the schedule.

It looks like they're adding a couple of S66 trips in the morning, which is good since unfortunately, Victory Blvd traffic has gotten worse in recent years, so at least the extra frequency should make up for some of the waits on Grymes Hill. (I would say that it would be a good chance to realign the schedule so that it makes the ferry connections a bit smoother, but that traffic is so unpredictable that no matter how much cushion time you have, it'll always be hit-or-miss). 

There's some cuts to M22 weekend service, but additions to Bx5 rush hour service.

On a side note, I wonder how this will work on Staten Island, since according to the other thread, it's supposed to be a combined winter/spring pick.

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For those on mobile devices or who cannot access the document, here are the changes:

Weekday Additions

AM Peak:

B4: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

Bx5: From every 5 minutes to every 4 minutes

Bx16: From every 6 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

Bx33: From every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes

Bx40/Bx42: From every 7 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

M50: From every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes

M11: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

Q3: From every 7 minutes to every 6 minutes

Q12: From every 4.5 minutes to every 4 minutes

Q13: From every 8 minutes to every 7 minutes

Q24: From every 9 minutes to every 7 minutes

S66: From every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes

Midday:

M103: From every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes

S53: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

S93: From every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes

PM Peak: 

B13: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

Bx5: From every 8 minutes to every 6 minutes

Bx20: From every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes

Q13: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

S74/84: From every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes

S93: From every 10 minutes to every 9 minutes

Evening:

S93: From every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes

 

Weekday Reductions

AM Peak:

B46 Local: From every 2.5 minutes to every 3 minutes

Bx12 Local: From every 8 minutes to every 10 minutes

Bx19: From every 5.5 minutes to every 6 minutes

M104: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Q54: From every 4.5 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

Q77: From every 6 minutes to every 7 minutes

S78: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

Midday:

B15: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

Bx12 Local: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Bx19: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

Bx34: From every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

M104: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Q54: From every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

S76: From every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes

PM Peak:

B41 LTD: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

B46 Local: From every 4.5 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

Bx12 Local: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

Bx1 LTD: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

M50: From every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes

Q12: From every 4.5 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

Q24: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Q30: From every 6 minutes to every 8 minutes

S53: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

S78: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Evening:

B41 LTD: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

Bx19: From every 9 minutes to every 10 minutes

Bx2: From every 9 minutes to every 10 minutes

Bx33: From every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes

M104: From every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes

Q3: From every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes

Q13: From every 9 minutes to every 10 minutes

Q30: From every 9 minutes to every 10 minutes

Q24: From every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

S53: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

 

Saturday Additions

AM Peak:

Bx19: From every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes

Midday:

N/A

PM Peak:

M35: From every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes

Evening:

M35: From every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes

 

Saturday Reductions

AM Peak:

M22: From every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes

Midday:

Bx19: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

M42: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

PM Peak:

Bx17: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

Bx19: From every 6 minutes to every 7 minutes

Bx22: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes

M42: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

Evening:

Bx19: From every 8 minutes to every 9 minutes

M22: From every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes

 

Sunday Additions

PM Peak:

M35: From every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes

 

Sunday Reductions

AM Peak:

M22: From every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes

Evening:

M22: From every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes

M35: From every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

 

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Not surprised about the Bx12 local because other than the 3pm hour when the kiddos are dismissed from school, the buses carry air, especially if the SBS is running decently.

Now when the Select goes to shit OTOH there won’t be as many locals to pick up the slack.

On the plus side, the Bx20 addition was overdue, and it’s nice to see the Bx5 with all that service. If ridership keeps growing I can see the Bx5 getting SBS service (not anytime soon but maybe in 5 years or so.)

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20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

It mentions that the Bx20 currently operates every 30 minutes in the PM rush, but it appears to operate every 20 minutes according to the schedule.

 

You are right, the Bx20 in the pm definitely operates every 20 minutes, so this is strange. But if they do change it to 15, that would be a plus.

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Something else is amiss with the Bx20 as well - it doesn't run every 30 mins during the evenings either.... There are only 3 total trips that leave either terminal after 7pm (which the MTA designates as the beginning of evening service) - 2 towards Inwood & 1 towards Riverdale.... It's the same 20 min. headway between those last 2 trips towards Inwood.... I saw that bit about 30 min headways during the evening hrs & said to myself, when the hell did this happen.....

Also, the Bx33 does not run at every 20 mins during the AM rush, it runs every 15....

I'd like to know up from what ass are they pulling some of these numbers up from....

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On 1/20/2018 at 12:19 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

Weekday Reductions

AM Peak:

B46 Local: From every 2.5 minutes to every 3 minutes

What's with the push back with the local buses?  Bad enough the trip to Williamsburg via Local is hell already. No need to push it to 3 mins.

PM Peak:

 

B41 LTD: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

Traffic from Downtown is already bad as it is.. More bus bunching on the 41. 

B46 Local: From every 4.5 minutes to every 5.5 minutes

Only means more +SBS+ on the 46.

 

Evening:

B41 LTD: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

They may need to utilize the short turn on Empire & Flatbush a bit more on the limited perhaps to put a dent on time.

Responses in red on top!

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22 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Responses in red on top!

They've been methodically screwing over the B41 for years... Since my uncle started at Flatbush in 2005, up until i worked there in 2010, the 41 (run-wise) has been dying a slow, senseless death. All they're doing is pushing customers to the jitney/dollar vans in droves. I'm of a firm belief they will push the 41-Limited to Q113-Limited headways, to justify artics on the line. I'm absolutely convinced. So are several Brooklyn Division bus operators who worked FB, past or presently.

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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On 1/20/2018 at 7:49 PM, B35 via Church said:

Something else is amiss with the Bx20 as well - it doesn't run every 30 mins during the evenings either.... There are only 3 total trips that leave either terminal after 7pm (which the MTA designates as the beginning of evening service) - 2 towards Inwood & 1 towards Riverdale.... It's the same 20 min. headway between those last 2 trips towards Inwood.... I saw that bit about 30 min headways during the evening hrs & said to myself, when the hell did this happen.....

As you know, I don't use the local buses in Riverdale like that, but the times that I have, the Bx20 is useful in the evenings, when the Bx10 is a mess.  They should run more Bx20 service anyway since it ends at 246th.  That takes care of the people down in Spuyten Duyvil and also gives those in Central Riverdale and Fieldston an alternative when the Bx7 and Bx10 runs like crap.  I took the local bus for a bit when the BxM2 was a mess at night since it would mean me getting home faster, and the subway ride was fine, but the Bx7 ran like crap, and the Bx10 would come in bunches, so you had gaps of about 20 minutes between buses once those packed up buses came.  Bus service outside of the rush is horrible, so I can't imagine what happens during the rush down at 231st street.  There are just not enough buses meeting the (1) trains that dump people at that stop.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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27 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

They've been methodically screwing over the B41 for years... Since my uncle started at Flatbush in 2005, up until i worked there in 2010, the 41 (run-wise) has been dying a slow, senseless death. All they're doing is pushing customers to the jitney/dollar vans in droves. I'm of a firm belief they will push the 41-Limited to Q113-Limited headways, to justify artics on the line. I'm absolutely convinced. So are several Brooklyn Division bus operators who worked FB, past or presently.

Here's my issue with the 41. 

1) Not enough police enforcement on Flatbush to regulate the vans. Since they addressed the Kings Plaza issue that took so many years and having vans stopping in front of KP. 

2). It took Flatbush so many years to have artics to NOT have them on the 41 knowing well that artics on the 44 is not the answer. You really need the artics more on the 41/46 vs the 44. Although Flatbush has 3 heavy lines all within the top 10. You would think it's best to have artics running in some sort on all 3 lines. 

3). Within the past year Flatbush has lost a good chunk of buses to CS and Grand Avenue, and I know the TA is not in the business of parking buses on the streets. However, if they made more progress of adding more 41's on the schedule none of those moves to Bushwick and Jamaica would of taken place. 

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1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here's my issue with the 41. 

1) Not enough police enforcement on Flatbush to regulate the vans. Since they addressed the Kings Plaza issue that took so many years and having vans stopping in front of KP. 

2). It took Flatbush so many years to have artics to NOT have them on the 41 knowing well that artics on the 44 is not the answer. You really need the artics more on the 41/46 vs the 44. Although Flatbush has 3 heavy lines all within the top 10. You would think it's best to have artics running in some sort on all 3 lines. 

3). Within the past year Flatbush has lost a good chunk of buses to CS and Grand Avenue, and I know the TA is not in the business of parking buses on the streets. However, if they made more progress of adding more 41's on the schedule none of those moves to Bushwick and Jamaica would of taken place. 

Response to #1: Absolutely. my sentiments exactly. If the NYPD did a significant job on Flatbush (AND Utica, might I add) bus service below Empire Blvd on BOTH the 46 & 41 would be better, as opposed to bus operators battling dollar vans for the right to safely service bus stops (and might I add, those vans are one of the many reasons accidents in Flatbush Depot were high for several years... but, management's response was to bring in ball-buster G.S's (General Superintendents) to "whip" operators into shape)

Response to #2: I agree 100% thru & thru. the 41 should've been one of the first lines in this city to receive artics back in the late 90's. majority of customers from East Flatbush/Flatbush (and to a further extent, Canarsie) relied/rely heavily on the Flatbush corridor (be it the B103, B41, dollar vans, the (2)(5) trains). I am beyond confused by the tactics TA are utilizing on the 41. It's as if TA wants the 41/46 local to become non entities within the next 5-7 year (with this slow death sentence starting in at least 2004). I was of a belief that when they had "terminal interlines" at KP on the 41/46, they instinctively knew that was bad news for both lines... another tactic to screw both lines out of proper service.

Response to #3: TA is so full of it, if that's the case. When Flatbush Depot first received the 58xx-series LFS-A's from MJQ for the (A) super-shuttle, they took away our employee parking at the Avenue N yard (claiming to use it to store buses overnight, to "avoid" parking buses on Utica, Flatbush & Fillmore. They used the yard for a few weeks, then... nothingness. TO THIS DAY, they STILL park buses on Utica, Flatbush & Fillmore (using B100 bus stops). So throwing damn-near every series number RTS at FB (49xx's, 50xx's, 51xx's and now 52xx's) while stripping FB of 45xx-series NG's is criminal, with no basis in validity. All in the sake of "protecting" buses? What a load.

East New York Depot, from my rookie year ('09) had the Havens Lot, Williams Lot, etc. and STILL parked buses on Jamaica Avenue, Broadway, etc... even when the 67/68xx-series old gen hybrids were brand new. IINM, they still park buses on the street, and do their level best to utilize all yards and the mechanics bays upstairs (the pullout facing Bushwick Avenue)

IINM, Jamaica & Ulmer Park still find ways to park buses on the streets... So, where is this newfound give-a-f**k about "protecting" buses coming from? If thats's the case, they should've lent two-six (126 Street Depot) a helping hand, instead of parking D60HF's on 126 & 127... then wondering why those buses were littered with bums, hookers and evidence of lewd acts (used condoms, tampons, bodily fluids, etc.) when the AM pullouts began.

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45 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Response to #1: Absolutely. my sentiments exactly. If the NYPD did a significant job on Flatbush (AND Utica, might I add) bus service below Empire Blvd on BOTH the 46 & 41 would be better, as opposed to bus operators battling dollar vans for the right to safely service bus stops (and might I add, those vans are one of the many reasons accidents in Flatbush Depot were high for several years... but, management's response was to bring in ball-buster G.S's (General Superintendents) to "whip" operators into shape)

Response to #2: I agree 100% thru & thru. the 41 should've been one of the first lines in this city to receive artics back in the late 90's. majority of customers from East Flatbush/Flatbush (and to a further extent, Canarsie) relied/rely heavily on the Flatbush corridor (be it the B103, B41, dollar vans, the (2)(5) trains). I am beyond confused by the tactics TA are utilizing on the 41. It's as if TA wants the 41/46 local to become non entities within the next 5-7 year (with this slow death sentence starting in at least 2004). I was of a belief that when they had "terminal interlines" at KP on the 41/46, they instinctively knew that was bad news for both lines... another tactic to screw both lines out of proper service.

Response to #3: TA is so full of it, if that's the case. When Flatbush Depot first received the 58xx-series LFS-A's from MJQ for the (A) super-shuttle, they took away our employee parking at the Avenue N yard (claiming to use it to store buses overnight, to "avoid" parking buses on Utica, Flatbush & Fillmore. They used the yard for a few weeks, then... nothingness. TO THIS DAY, they STILL park buses on Utica, Flatbush & Fillmore (using B100 bus stops). So throwing damn-near every series number RTS at FB (49xx's, 50xx's, 51xx's and now 52xx's) while stripping FB of 45xx-series NG's is criminal, with no basis in validity. All in the sake of "protecting" buses? What a load.

East New York Depot, from my rookie year ('09) had the Havens Lot, Williams Lot, etc. and STILL parked buses on Jamaica Avenue, Broadway, etc... even when the 67/68xx-series old gen hybrids were brand new. IINM, they still park buses on the street, and do their level best to utilize all yards and the mechanics bays upstairs (the pullout facing Bushwick Avenue)

IINM, Jamaica & Ulmer Park still find ways to park buses on the streets... So, where is this newfound give-a-f**k about "protecting" buses coming from? If thats's the case, they should've lent two-six (126 Street Depot) a helping hand, instead of parking D60HF's on 126 & 127... then wondering why those buses were littered with bums, hookers and evidence of lewd acts (used condoms, tampons, bodily fluids, etc.) when the AM pullouts began.

Talk to the union they have fought artics in Brooklyn since day one.  why do u think UP have not been modified for artics. 

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26 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

Talk to the union they have fought artics in Brooklyn since day one.  why do u think UP have not been modified for artics. 

I don't know why. It's not like service in Brooklyn has improved, especially out of Flatbush. Every route that I think of that comes out of that depot has worsened, even the short ones like the B2 and B31.

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On 1/21/2018 at 2:20 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Responses in red on top!

By the way, they've been setting up the B46 local to fail from day one of the SBS46. There's no way that there should be no other SCHEDULED short-signs on the 46 local aside from eastern parkway. The true termini set-up on the 46 local should be (to the north) Williamsburg, Woodhull, NOT DeKalb Avenue (there's NEVER been enough space for locals & limiteds/SBS's to properly layover) Fulton Street (yes, I said it... there is an official turn around & layover point at Fulton, believe it or not) and Eastern Parkway. To the south, Kings Plaza & Avenue H (to a lesser extent, because that "layover" somewhat interferes with the B6/103)

 

21 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

Talk to the union they have fought artics in Brooklyn since day one.  why do u think UP have not been modified for artics. 

Absolutely moronic. If this was TWU's way of "saving work" (runs) for Brooklyn Division... congrats. all 3 of the "heavy" lines out of Flatbush have lost runs at a steady pace since 2005 (i recall 100-plus runs on the 41/44/46 when I started... and i mean upwards of 110 for the B46 specifically) so, what exactly did they accomplish? and what was the return for all these "lost runs"? a few school runs on the B7,B47, B12 & B83 of all lines? ridiculous. keeping artics out of Brooklyn all these years did nothing for the division, but cause bunching, which rendered some runs useless, because one run would consistently be packed, while others carried air. the same thing happened when my ex-wife & I worked at 100 street... the M101/2/3 run board used to have upwards of 170 runs in total for all 3 lines.. now, it's barely 150 IINM. why? too many bunched runs and too many runs carrying air. I hope ATU726 learns from this, and doesn't suffer the same fate on Staten Island.

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7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't know why. It's not like service in Brooklyn has improved, especially out of Flatbush. Every route that I think of that comes out of that depot has worsened, even the short ones like the B2 and B31.

Thank you, sir. that was going to be my next statement. every route has suffered as a result of this foolishness. 

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4 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Thank you, sir. that was going to be my next statement. every route has suffered as a result of this foolishness. 

Hell I even recall one driver who used to frequent here calling for outright cuts to the B31 saying that there was no ridership overnight, so I'm not sure how they're supposed to be concerned with service there in general.  I personally contacted elected officials who worked to get the B2 restored on weekends, and there was also a push to restore overnight service on the B31.  The B49 has been a disaster. The B41 has worsened considerably.  That leaves the B44 and the B46.  Given the amount of complaints about long waits for local B44 service, I'd say that line hasn't been a success either despite becoming SBS.  The B46 is debatable as well.  If there is a lot of farebeating going on then that means less revenue for the (MTA) and potential cuts for the line, so I think that just about takes care of all of the lines out of Flatbush.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

Talk to the union they have fought artics in Brooklyn since day one.  why do u think UP have not been modified for artics. 

...... same for Fresh Pond

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This is my favorite part:

Quote

II. Public Speakers

David Paul Gerber spoke about the MTA Subway Action Plan, complaining of construction related delays along the (E)  , (F) and (R) lines. Mr. Gerber recommended “short turning” the (R) train at Queens Plaza from Manhattan  

:rock: Yes public! Complain about the Queens Blvd Horse and Buggy ride complete with extended rest stops for nature's calls , and continue make suggestions demands to keep that (R) train OUT OF THE WAY!  

And to keep this on topic, the (Q60) has been the relief for savvy riders.

Edited by N6 Limited
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On 1/20/2018 at 12:19 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

Weekday Additions

AM Peak:

Q24: From every 9 minutes to every 7 minutes

There's something that strikes me about the Q24. I don't know what the (MTA) is doing to the Brooklyn Division  with East New York  but the 7 mins don't really amount to nothing when you have traffic on Broadway  

Weekday Reductions

Midday:

B15: From every 7 minutes to every 8 minutes

This could only mean one thing. More buses to Spring Creek vs JFK Airport ✈️. There needs to be an emphasis on establishing more service to the airport vs cutting headways. I'm not see the logic here    

Q24: From every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes. 

Im lost here. Looks like East New York is receiving the same fate as Flatbush. The Q24 to me is really underperforming but you can't abandon those Cypress Hills, Ozone Park and South Richmond Hill customers as some have no way getting into East New York for access to Manhattan  

Respones on top in bold.  

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2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

This is my favorite part:

:rock: Yes public! Complain about the Queens Blvd Horse and Buggy ride complete with extended rest stops for nature's calls , and continue make suggestions demands to keep that (R) train OUT OF THE WAY!  

And to keep this on topic, the (Q60) has been the relief for savvy riders.

Don't forget the Q53. Anytime there is weekend construction involving no trains at local stops, or in any other huge delay, those Q53's will get slammed.

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7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here's my issue with the 41. 

1) Not enough police enforcement on Flatbush to regulate the vans. Since they addressed the Kings Plaza issue that took so many years and having vans stopping in front of KP. 

2). It took Flatbush so many years to have artics to NOT have them on the 41 knowing well that artics on the 44 is not the answer. You really need the artics more on the 41/46 vs the 44. Although Flatbush has 3 heavy lines all within the top 10. You would think it's best to have artics running in some sort on all 3 lines. 

3). Within the past year Flatbush has lost a good chunk of buses to CS and Grand Avenue, and I know the TA is not in the business of parking buses on the streets. However, if they made more progress of adding more 41's on the schedule none of those moves to Bushwick and Jamaica would of taken place. 

Police enforcement on traffic laws are piss poor in nyc, lets be very honest. But lets also keep in mind the retail apocalypse is affecting lines going to malls or shopping centers where people can't get deals. The B46 and B41 are almost empty by the time it reaches KP, but look at the B83 to gateway mall, there are plenty of stores where you can get a bargain and its crowded.  Also lot of people in the flatlands area want a bus that goes there. But a lot of people aren't flocking to the mall like they used to because they can shop online. 

Now with artics on the route I think it would be needed and hopefully when the new flyers come in the ones from the Bronx can be given to Flatbush. But I think the B44 should keep them, the B46 is a frequent bus so I don't think artics are needed but who knows? I feel as if the MTA has neglected brooklyn with bus equipment for so long that a lot of customers has found other ways to get where they needed to go. I mean how much longer in an age where uber and online driving services would a passenger put up with on a crowded bus? Sending dozens of 40 footers causing more congestion isn't helping either. The MTA neglected so much of the outer boroughs that now its biting them in the ass. Even to this day the B41 is a shitty bus and it will continue to be that way until something is done but when that time comes it will continue to lose ridership. 

 

Edited by Brillant93
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5 hours ago, limitednyc said:

Talk to the union they have fought artics in Brooklyn since day one.  why do u think UP have not been modified for artics. 

I seriously believe there needs to be an investigation on the transit union I have heard that they are one of the main reasons why we don't have artics in Brooklyn. You can't always put employees over customers. On top of that I read about the east side access tunnel that it was over staffed and thats why it takes way too long and its expensive because the unions are running the show and management is doing nothing. 

 

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2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Don't forget the Q53. Anytime there is weekend construction involving no trains at local stops, or in any other huge delay, those Q53's will get slammed.

When that happens the Q52 should just be extended to Woodside TBH.

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The traffic on Broadway causes bunching on the Q53, with or without QBL local service changes. It needs better headways (at a minimum pre artic converison for sure), but extending the Q52 would screw up that line too

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