Plan To Restructure The NYC Bus System

[Orion6025]

2 hours ago, Dan1 said:

The SI express bus study is complete and is at the Public Hearing stage. I think the express buses are more important to Staten Islander than the local buses. The Staten Island local bus network will always be constrained by SI's spread out population, the lack of a borough-wide street grid, and limited arterial road network. The original SI Bus Study goes back to 2016 so I'm assuming that at least a start was made on a study of the local routes. Nothing official on what's being considered but speculation is that that MTA was looking at employment/activity centers like the SI mall, the planned malls on the south shore, the colleges, and the hospitals. But beyond that it's anybody's guess as to what Byford's team will do on S.I.

I think you underestimated the power of the st. George Ferry terminal. That boat feeds thousands onto buses everyday, not to mention any potential bus-bus or SIRT-bus transfers further south and/or west in the island.

[FLX9304]

On 5/5/2018 at 2:05 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Says who? Are the patients and workers at the Brooklyn Development Center incapable of using any other station on the line besides New Lots Avenue? They can't use Van Siclen Avenue or Pennsylvania Avenue?

And Starrett City residents heading over to the or the Broadway Junction subway lines are supposed to continue taking a circuitous route down Van Siclen Avenue instead of a straight route down Pennsylvania Avenue? (Even if somebody got off at Van Siclen/New Lots and walked a block up for the (3), that's still backtracking one subway stop.

And sure, the Q7 might gain ridership, but as far as overnight service goes, that means you would need 2 buses instead of 1. And considering that malls generally don't open overnight (and even if they're open, the overnight workers generally start their shifts before bus service finishes for the night, and finish after bus service has already started), that means you would essentially have two groups: Those riding from Euclid Avenue or New Lots Avenue into the residential sections of ENY, and those heading east from Rockaway Blvd.

In any case, I think the B83 should be routed straight down Pennsylvania Avenue, and the B20 should take over the Van Siclen portion of the B83 and continue east on Flatlands, Elton, and Vandalia to end at the Brooklyn Development Center.

The B84 can be folded into the Pennsylvania Avenue services, and run from Broadway Junction to the Lefferts Blvd AirTrain station to supplement the B15 (so it would run via Pennsylvania, New Lots, Ashford, and Linden)

The numbering of the routes on Pennsylvania Avenue doesn't matter (so with my plan, you'd have a route Broadway Junction to Gateway via Pennsylvania, a route from Broadway Junction to the Brooklyn Development Center via Van Siclen, and a route from Broadway Junction to JFK via Ashford/Linden. Whichever routes they decide to call B20/83/84 are immaterial. And the B20's Bushwick/Ridgewood portion can be attached to either the Van Siclen route or the Pennsylvania Avenue route, instead of the longer JFK route)

And that's without even merging one route to another. I agree with you 100%

[Lil 57]

My routes:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

[Lil 57]

On 5/8/2018 at 4:30 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There are times when I've used the express bus within Staten Island to get from one place to another because it was faster than the local bus, and many people do this on Staten Island.

I thought Express buses were closed door.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I thought Express buses were closed door.

Well yes and no. There are several official and unofficial drop-off points where you can make transfers, and plenty of people will use the express bus within Staten Island, either because they don't want to ride the local bus, or the express bus puts them closer to where they need to be quicker.

[Dan1]

18 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

My routes:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

Your S77 uses 10th Street in New Dorp which while wide enough to handle a bus route, is a 100% residential street of 1 and 2 family homes. Residents would object to a bus route, and especially wouldn't want bus stops in front of their homes.

[Lil 57]

Just now, Dan1 said:

Your S77 uses 10th Street in New Dorp which while wide enough to handle a bus route, is a 100% residential street of 1 and 2 family homes.

It also serves SI Tech high school. A lot of routes on SI go through residential streets, like the S57 on Decker Ave.

[Deucey]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:49 PM, Lil 57 said:

My routes:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

I'm impressed by the fact you put so much thought into this.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:49 PM, Lil 57 said:

My routes:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

i'm impressed overall. am rush hour limited service on the s81/84/86 toward the ferry should already be a thing imo. regarding the s74/84: i believe the line empties out at ETC (yes, i'm fully aware the line does attract passengers boarding to the mall at ETC), if i'm not mistaken. so, i ask, wouldn't be more beneficial to have limited trips & alternate local trips short turn at ETC as opposed traveling to Charleston Depot/Bricktown Mall?

[Lil 57]

38 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i'm impressed overall. am rush hour limited service on the s81/84/86 toward the ferry should already be a thing imo. regarding the s74/84: i believe the line empties out at ETC (yes, i'm fully aware the line does attract passengers boarding to the mall at ETC), if i'm not mistaken. so, i ask, wouldn't be more beneficial to have limited trips & alternate local trips short turn at ETC as opposed traveling to Charleston Depot/Bricktown Mall?

Weekend S74 trips have alternative short turns at the ETC already.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

8 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Weekend S74 trips have alternative short turns at the ETC already.

fully aware. most of my s74 interaction is on weekends most recently. i was asking about during the weekdays, if short turning s74's/84's (the purpose would be to get buses returning to the ferry in service or DHD's) would make any sense in your or anyone else's eyes who know more about staten island (i've never operated bus lines on staten island or lived... just visiting alot recently)

[Lil 57]

8 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

fully aware. most of my s74 interaction is on weekends most recently. i was asking about during the weekdays, if short turning s74's/84's (the purpose would be to get buses returning to the ferry in service or DHD's) would make any sense in your or anyone else's eyes who know more about staten island (i've never operated bus lines on staten island or lived... just visiting alot recently)

When the s84 runs the S74 ends at the ETC.

[Lil 57]

4 hours ago, Deucey said:

I'm impressed by the fact you put so much thought into this.

Thanks👍 these would make SI have better bus service and more connections to NJT and to EWR

[checkmatechamp13]

6 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

fully aware. most of my s74 interaction is on weekends most recently. i was asking about during the weekdays, if short turning s74's/84's (the purpose would be to get buses returning to the ferry in service or DHD's) would make any sense in your or anyone else's eyes who know more about staten island (i've never operated bus lines on staten island or lived... just visiting alot recently)

From experience, the S74/84 have a lot of turnover at the ETC. Coming from the ferry, a whole crowd dumps out and a new crowd comes in, and the same heading eastbound. But service west of the ETC is already pretty much at the minimum level, so I wouldn't cut it further. I would just split the route at the ETC and give each half the appropriate service level. (I'm also of the belief that the Arthur Kill Road corridor could use better connectivity to the SIR, so any passengers heading to the ferry should be able to take a bus to the SIR instead of sitting on the S74 the whole way. The S84 is primarily used as a shuttle from the ferry and Tompkinsville to reach the Stapleton Houses (Broad & Gordon), and buses virtually empty out by Narrows Road South. 

So I would restructure the routes as follows:

S74/84: ETC - St. George. Limited-stop zone only runs between the Staten Island Expressway and St. George (So the S84 runs local south of the Staten Island Expressway and limited-stop north of it, and the S74 only runs north of the Staten Island Expressway)

S55: SI Mall - Perth Amboy via Arden Avenue, Amboy Road, Luten Avenue, Englewood Avenue, and Bricktown Mall.

S56: SI Mall - Luten/Eylandt via Rossville Avenue/Seguine Avenue (Just so you know, Tottenville High School is at Luten/Eylandt)

S72: ETC - Tottenville (Main/Amboy) via Arthur Kill Road

S73: ETC - Tottenville SIR station via Woodrow Road, Bloomingdale Road, Englewood Avenue, Bricktown Mall, Page Avenue, Amboy Road, and terminate with the S78 routing up to Arthur Kill Road. 

I would have some type of route running down Huguenot Avenue (At first I was thinking of having the S59 run to Tottenville, and have the S78 split at New Dorp to run from New Dorp to St. George via Hylan and New Dorp to Arden Heights via Hylan Blvd/Huguenot Avenue).

In any case, the point is to have a direct route to the SIR from Rossville & Arden Heights (via Rossville/Seguine, Huguenot, and Arden respectively). Very few people take the S74 all the way from the South Shore to St. George, but for the few that do, they would have an easy option (and of course, the fact that it's easier means that more people will make the trip). The S56/S72 would just be for coverage so I'm not expecting them to get tons of ridership. (For the S56 I was thinking of perhaps having the S55 alternate on the weekends. So you would have Perth Amboy - SI Mall via Arden and Perth Amboy-SI Mall via Rossville once per hour). The S72 would be necessary to cover the industrial part of Arthur Kill Road (including where the Charleston Depot is) even though it wouldn't get much ridership.

Overnight, I would combine the S73 & S74, since traffic/crowding isn't an issue, and the speed of the bus is comparable to the SIR (Also, out of the routes I mentioned, those would be the only overnight routes. Obviously there would still be something down on Hylan, but I'm referring to the areas by Arthur Kill Road)

Also, I would restructure the S74/84 & S78 in Stapleton. I would have northbound buses run straight up Targee to Van Duzer and have southbound buses take St. Pauls to Van Duzer). The S78 would be structured to run down Bay Street, and Water/Canal Street to get to Tompkins Avenue. The S74's route through Stapleton drags it down with the long traffic lights. From the Gordon Street side of the Stapleton Houses, riders can either catch the S74 slightly uphill on Targee/Van Duzer, or catch the S78 on level ground on Tompkins (the distance is no worse than from the Henderson Avenue side of the West Brighton Houses). Since the S78 basically runs nonstop along St. Pauls, what can be done so riders in the Stapleton Houses maintain their limited-stop service is have the S78 run nonstop between Victory & Bay and Canal/Wright. 

[S78 via Hylan]

18 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I would restructure the S74/84 & S78 in Stapleton. I would have northbound buses run straight up Targee to Van Duzer and have southbound buses take St. Pauls to Van Duzer). The S78 would be structured to run down Bay Street, and Water/Canal Street to get to Tompkins Avenue. The S74's route through Stapleton drags it down with the long traffic lights. From the Gordon Street side of the Stapleton Houses, riders can either catch the S74 slightly uphill on Targee/Van Duzer, or catch the S78 on level ground on Tompkins (the distance is no worse than from the Henderson Avenue side of the West Brighton Houses). Since the S78 basically runs nonstop along St. Pauls, what can be done so riders in the Stapleton Houses maintain their limited-stop service is have the S78 run nonstop between Victory & Bay and Canal/Wright. 

I like this idea. It’s annoying how slow those routes are when passing through Stapleton.

[Lil 57]

19 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

I would restructure the S74/84 & S78 in Stapleton.

 

20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Also, I would restructure the S74/84 & S78 in Stapleton.

I'm working on restructuring the routes in Stapleton in my new routes proposal, ill tell you guys when it's done.

[paulrivera]

There's some logistics involved that people would have to sort out, but I think it would be more efficient for the riders to send the Bx3 to Fordham Plaza. A LOT of people transfer between the Bx12 to/from Fordham and the Bx3 to/from Morris Heights, and this would accommodate to an extent a lot of the transferring riders.

To compensate for Bx3 riders north of Fordham, I would reroute the Bx32 from Mott Haven to West 238th Street and the local Bx12 from Pelham Bay to the VA Hospital.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 minute ago, paulrivera said:

There's some logistics involved that people would have to sort out, but I think it would be more efficient for the riders to send the Bx3 to Fordham Plaza. A LOT of people transfer between the Bx12 to/from Fordham and the Bx3 to/from Morris Heights, and this would accommodate to an extent a lot of the transferring riders.

To compensate for Bx3 riders north of Fordham, I would reroute the Bx32 from Mott Haven to West 238th Street and the local Bx12 from Pelham Bay to the VA Hospital.

 

Should there be a dedicated route for every possible origin-destination pair?

[Lil 57]

I've reconstructed the routes in Stapleton (Last few pages)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

[Dan1]

10 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I've reconstructed the routes in Stapleton (Last few pages)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

You put a of of work into your proposals. Very nice. But you're a little late with your S41. Unfortunately St. Joseph Hill is closing at the end of this school year.

[Lil 57]

1 minute ago, Dan1 said:

You put a of of work into your proposals. Very nice. But you're a little late with your S41. Unfortunately St. Joseph Hill is closing at the end of this school year.

SJH is not closing, Villa is closing though.

[N6 Limited]

According to the Committee meeting today, they plan to restructure the Bronx Bus network after Staten Island.

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

According to the Committee meeting today, they plan to restructure the Bronx Bus network after Staten Island.

Well I guess we go back to 1984 sooner that expected. Anything details spilled yet?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Well I guess we go back to 1984 sooner that expected. Anything details spilled yet?

What exactly do you mean by that?

No real details, but this was stated:

Quote

April 2018 Highlights:

Buses Last month we unveiled our customer-centric Bus Plan, which challenges the status quo and calls for the kind of bold changes that will yield the most benefits for our 2.3 million average weekday customers.

A key part of this plan is to continue to enhance our world-class bus fleet by evaluating new bus designs. This month we began testing a double decker bus in service on the X17J express bus route in Staten Island. The bus provides 42% more capacity than our regular express buses, reducing pollution and road congestion. A dual-screen monitor at the bottom of the stairs allows passengers to check for empty seats before walking up the stairs to the upper deck. The bus driver also has the same view allowing him or her to monitor any activity upstairs. This bus model is built to accommodate customers travelling with disabilities and has a wheelchair ramp as opposed to a lift for easy boarding.

While we continue to collect and evaluate feedback from our customers, initial indications reveal that the majority feel that the seat and ride comfort is comparable or better than our current express buses. Next month we will be testing another new model express bus. One that provides curb level entry and a wheelchair ramp rather than a lift for our wheelchair customers.

One of the most important tenets of our bus plan is the redesign of our network. Achieving our goal of a complete citywide redesign by 2021 will take a lot of work. We expect the redesign to be transformative. Starting from a blank slate, we will use customer input to design a new system from the ground up. Because the city is so large, we will roll out the redesign borough by borough. The Staten Island Express redesign is complete and will be implemented in August. Building on the work in Staten Island, today I am happy to announce that the Bronx will be up next.

We have already met with some of the Bronx community stakeholders, and look forward to continuing to coordinate with all stakeholders throughout this process. But the real first step is public engagement. To build a network centered on our riders, we need to know what people want from their bus system— their preferences, priorities, and needs. To get this community input we will put together a series of public workshops in the Bronx this fall. The feedback we receive will establish the goals and priorities that will guide the rest of the redesign process. Engaging all of our stakeholders will be critical to the success of the network redesign, and we are committed to doing this from day one.

Darryl C. Irick President, MTA Bus Company

Senior Vice President, NYCT Department of Buses 

Source: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/180521_1030_Transit.pdf

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What exactly do you mean by that?

1984 was the year they reconfigured the bus network in The Bronx.....