R262 (R62/R62A Replacement) - Information & Discussion

[Maxwell179]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Interestingly, the R188 cars sound just like the R142As and R143s and though they went into service 15-16 years later. So you never know.

That’s because they all have Bombardier propulsion systems right ?

[MysteriousBtrain]

16 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I meant the newly built R188s, not the R188s that were formerly R142As. 

In that case, the newer R188 had to be compatible with the older ones so yeah they had to be nearly identical.

[Around the Horn]

On May 24, 2019 at 5:21 PM, BMTKateMeltonLine said:

Is the R262s are get the same sound like R142A & 143 on the L line?

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Bombardier MITRAC 1508C was discontinued...

I believe the only MITRAC systems Bombardier offers at the moment are the MITRAC TM1301SP IGBT-VVVF AC on the R179 and the MITRAC DR1000 on the London Underground 2009 stock and I believe also the S stock plus the version on the Aventras (which I don't know the model number for) 

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Interestingly, the R188 cars sound just like the R142As and R143s and though they went into service 15-16 years later. So you never know.

Yeah they brought it back for the R188s rather than install a brand new propulsion system on the converts.

[HenryB]

It would be a maintenance nightmare to have R188s with two very different propulsions  (decades apart....)

Not the case for R262 vs R188/R142

[BMTKateMeltonLine]

If the 262's can get on the   line, yu gonna b shocked.

[Lawrence St]

Since the remaining R142A's are going to get converted to CBTC, does that mean a new overhaul order will be awarded to Kawasaki or is it going to be done in house?

[Lance]

That's not known yet. They haven't finalized the design yet, so it's a bit premature to determine how the conversion process will be completed.

[bulk88]

On 5/31/2019 at 9:55 AM, Lance said:

That's not known yet. They haven't finalized the design yet, so it's a bit premature to determine how the conversion process will be completed.

7 line is Thales CBTC wont be used ever again AFAIK by NYCT. L train's Siemens equipment supposedly will be used for rest of Div B and A so what a mainline IRT CBTC R142A is parts wise, is yet unknown. Thrown in LCD ad screens too. If the MTA is very adventurous (not), CCTV too.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Which will be the first line to get the new trains?  Which was the first to get the R142/A's?  and which were the last to give up the redbirds, (other than the  ) ?

[Around the Horn]

15 minutes ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

Which will be the first line to get the new trains? 

This is entirely speculation on my part but I say the since Lex is the first mainline trunk for CBTC and the have NTTs already.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

1 minute ago, Around the Horn said:

This is entirely speculation on my part but I say the since Lex is the first mainline trunk for CBTC and the have NTTs already.

sounds reasonable. The  always operated on its own in a way and not tied together with the  in terms of fleet and TPH

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If so, hopefully Westchester Yard forces will treat their shiny new toys nicely this time. They didn’t seem to do that when they had the R142As.

[Bosco]

On 5/30/2019 at 2:18 PM, BMTKateMeltonLine said:

If the 262's can get on the   line, yu gonna b shocked.

No reason for that, considering the R188s are more than enough and run fine on there.
 

On 5/30/2019 at 4:26 PM, Lawrence St said:

Since the remaining R142A's are going to get converted to CBTC, does that mean a new overhaul order will be awarded to Kawasaki or is it going to be done in house?

Not confirmed, but having the remaining R142As upgraded to R188 in a similar manner would make sense.  One of the reasons the conversion for R142/R142A was done at Kawasaki was because the conversion work was more extensive than originally thought.  Remember, the R142s and R142As don't have the space for CBTC (only one TOD screen, and no CBTC locker).  The R160s (and eventually R179s) can be converted in house by NYCT because the space and wiring for the equipment are already there.

A bigger question (which is still unknown) is who will convert the R142s?  Kawasaki won't have the resources to convert all those trains in the same time frame (with R211 and other projects at the same time), and are not familiar with the R142s at all, so that leaves Bombardier or CRRC as two possibilities.

[JeremiahC99]

37 minutes ago, BayParkwayW said:

So basically there’s a net gain of two cars? I wonder if two extra cars are already stored in the yard. Regarding the R262, I think the order should be a combination of both 6-car and 5-car sets with open thruways, that way they can run on the shuttle and the 7. It would work well to improve capacity without the extra half cabs and distance between cars. But that’s for the R262 thread.

The 6-car sets are planned to solely run on the  42nd Street Shuttle. There is no need for them to run on the  as the R188s are more than adequate to supply all needs on the  line and it’s 2015 extension to Hudson Yards (which is why 6 extra 11-car trains were ordered). However, in  land, anything can happen.

[Around the Horn]

The only scenario where you'd see 262s on the is if a New Jersey extension actually goes through which is highly unlikely

[SuperDonut]

On 6/4/2019 at 1:51 AM, bulk88 said:

7 line is Thales CBTC wont be used ever again AFAIK by NYCT. L train's Siemens equipment supposedly will be used for rest of Div B and A so what a mainline IRT CBTC R142A is parts wise, is yet unknown. Thrown in LCD ad screens too. If the MTA is very adventurous (not), CCTV too.

Where is this coming from? I keep hearing people say it, yet in today’s CPOC meeting Pete Tomlin not only mentioned using Thales CBTC on the Queens Blvd line but also finally bringing Mitsubishi on board and potentially a fourth supplier (I’m assuming Bombardier since they’re probably the second biggest CBTC supplier) since the system is so large and apparently none of the companies can provide that much equipment and support in a reasonable timeframe, implying all 3 or 4 suppliers will be used. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by SuperDonut

[Late Clear]

CBTC is a nice thought but the length of the execution is completely unrealistic.  

10 years plus per line.  There's got to be a better way.  They should of never abandoned cab signals in the 70s.  

 

[SuperDonut]

18 hours ago, Late Clear said:

CBTC is a nice thought but the length of the execution is completely unrealistic.  

10 years plus per line.  There's got to be a better way.  They should of never abandoned cab signals in the 70s.  

 

Fast forward would (try to) do the majority of the system in 10 years, not just a single line in 10 years. As with all public works projects, it will face delays of course, but we shouldn't use that as an excuse to not do anything. People would rather have a continuously shitty system forever instead of being inconvenienced for a few years and getting a massively better system for decades to come unfortunately.

 

To bring this thread back to topic: with Kawasaki having issues with getting the M9 out on time, and with how relatively large the R211 order is, I'm assuming the chance of Kawasaki getting the R262 order is pretty low? With Bombardier (and potentially Kawasaki) out, what does that leave us with? Alstom and CRCC? Has Siemens ever bid on a NYCT rolling stock order?

[Around the Horn]

44 minutes ago, SuperDonut said:

To bring this thread back to topic: with Kawasaki having issues with getting the M9 out on time, and with how relatively large the R211 order is, I'm assuming the chance of Kawasaki getting the R262 order is pretty low? With Bombardier (and potentially Kawasaki) out, what does that leave us with? Alstom and CRCC? Has Siemens ever bid on a NYCT rolling stock order?

Kawasaki was already pretty much guaranteed to be out from the jump because of the size of the R211 order.

Bombardier was only banned from the R211 order in particular and in theory could be in the running for the R262 but that would be unlikely.

Siemens right now is in the same position Alstom was prior to the R160 order: they had only supplied propulsion for the R142 at that point (some R160Bs have Siemens propulsion)

Alstom, CRRC and Hitachi are other manufacturers that would theoretically available.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I suppose they are. But would Transit really want to take a chance on a car maker that’s never built a subway car for New York (other than Alstom)?

[Late Clear]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:57 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I suppose they are. But would Transit really want to take a chance on a car maker that’s never built a subway car for New York (other than Alstom)?

All I see is that the R62 and R68s have at least a minimum of 20 years left to go at this rate. 

[trainfan22]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:09 AM, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

Which will be the first line to get the new trains?  Which was the first to get the R142/A's?  and which were the last to give up the redbirds, (other than the  ) ?

First to get R142: The  line 

 

First to get R142A: The  line

 

The  was the last mainline IRT route to use Redbirds. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by trainfan22

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, Late Clear said:

All I see is that the R62 and R68s have at least a minimum of 20 years left to go at this rate. 

A minimum of 10 years is more accurate, since they would all be 40 years old by 2029.

[Late Clear]

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

A minimum of 10 years is more accurate, since they would all be 40 years old by 2029.

R32's are still on the road, anything is possible.  

They don't need new equipment without new signals.  

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/4/2019 at 11:39 AM, Late Clear said:

All I see is that the R62 and R68s have at least a minimum of 20 years left to go at this rate. 

I doubt the R62s and R68s will still be in service in 2039. Yes, the R32s and R42s are still in service after 50 (R42s) and 55 (R32s) years, but that’s because the MTA had no choice but to keep them in service. But don’t forget, it’s only a small portion of both fleets that are still in service. Most of them were sent to their watery graves well before they hit 50. Had the R44s not developed major structural problems and the State didn’t implement funding cuts to the MTA in 2010, they’d still be in service and all of the 32s and 42s would have been retired. 

Also worth noting is that the 62s and 68s are of the same technology as the 32s and 42s. And in this day and age, that technology is getting more difficult to maintain by the day.

You mentioned signals in your last post. Signals would probably be a major factor in Transit withdrawing the 62s and 68s sooner rather than later. They already decided it was more cost-effective to retrofit the newer R142As with CBTC technology and move them to the  (as the R188s) vs retrofitting the old-school tech R62s and keeping them on the .

Edited July 5, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue