MTA vows to scrap all of its old diesel buses by early May

[Brillant93]

6 minutes ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

Oh My GOODNESS!  Finally they're are leaving!.. 🙆‍♂️ Woo hoo for those who doesn't understand or who's depot doesn't carry those buses, they are not some operators favorite due to no space at the operator compartment, and its annoying to load both Wheelchairs and walkers passenger. I salute the RTS for its power and snow weather master, but it was time to move on since now we are on the new buses style. Woo hoo!! 

I’m six foot three and if I were an operator would I have a hard time with driving an RTS? 

[Express Bus Operator]

4 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I’m six foot three and if I were an operator would I have a hard time with driving an RTS? 

Yes and the reason being, there are not enough leg room, the seats doesn't go back as much compared to the recent buses that are out there. Myself when I had to operate on them I would have to try to adjust the seat up high which caused a hazardous issue since the panel on top of the bus would interfered with my view and sometimes by sitting high up because I have long legs, it would take a toll on my knees holding the service brake pedal at traffic light or moving through slow traffic. Some of the RTS seats doesn't even go up or back enough.

But overall if these buses were to have a little drag race, the RTS would out beat the current bus since the speed on those buses are wooohoooo........((Thats all I'm saying)) lol 

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Seen quite a few UP & ENY RTS's out and about today, surreal to think in a little over a month they will all be gone.

 

When the RTS first hit service in the early 80s the R32s & R46 were in service, nearly 40 years later as the RTS era comes to an end the 32s and 46s are still in service! That's pretty cool.

 

2019 is a terrible year from a fan POV..

 

RTS

Bee Line Neoplans

D60HF

Orion VII CNG

 

Possibly the R32s and 42s..

 

ALL wiped out, damn.

You still got NJ ones lmao. Plus the others will still do a fan trip here and there from what I'm hearing.

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You still got NJ ones lmao. Plus the others will still do a fan trip here and there from what I'm hearing.

It's actually very different. All the buses listed above retiring have a form of DD. NJ's non-coach fleet mostly consists of Caterpillar and Cummins. This is basically us fans saying goodbye to the DD and also to the last high floor locals for NYCT.

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's actually very different. All the buses listed above and retiring have a form of DD. NJ's non-coach fleet mostly consists of Caterpillar and Cummins. This is basically us fans saying goodbye to the DD and also to the last high floor locals for NYCT.

Ah I forgot about that.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

1 hour ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

Oh My GOODNESS!  Finally they're are leaving!.. 🙆‍♂️ Woo hoo for those who doesn't understand or who's depot doesn't carry those buses, they are not some operators favorite due to no space at the operator compartment, and its annoying to load both Wheelchairs and walkers passenger. I salute the RTS for its power and snow weather master, but it was time to move on since now we are on the new buses style. Woo hoo!! 

Absolutely spot on! It's time for modernization, if they can remake the RTS for 2019 specifications I'm all for it, but the current batch has GOT TO GO! 

[Coney Island Av]

I heavily doubt that they will be gone in a mere two months for fairly obvious reasons:

First, if they were to do so, we would end up with a MASSIVE bus shortage across all depots without the RTS. 

Secondly, it's a bunch of crap given that they announced this just after Brooklyn hippies complained about old buses, just as how  line riders complained about R32s a few years back. The MTA is probably only saying this just to shut the hippies up. Now granted, while it may look confirmed it's final, it's pretty damn obvious they're hiding something deep down. I mean, why would they just announce this right after they complained? Seems to imply the latter IMO... Hipsters also complained about R32s in like 2011-2012, the MTA promised they would be gone by 2017, but guess what, they're still here two years later. The only thing about the RTS that could most likely be correct is all the RTS out of ENY will be gone by the end of the month, given that they've lost lots of RTS just within the past few weeks. 

Next, it's physically impossible to retire all 160 remaining RTS in just two months considering that the Gen-I Orion VII CNGs for example took a little over a year to retire, as will the 7685-7819 batch once they retire. If it takes a year to retire merely 100 buses, then there's no way that they'll be gone in just two months from now. Even with accelerated XD40 deliveries, I only see them reducing the remaining RTS total to minimum of around 100 by then. In fact, most retiring fleets take more than a year to fully retire. 

Also, both Flatbush and Ulmer Park haven't been receiving any of the new 2018-2019 XD40s. It should be fairly obvious they won't retire these without replacement if they learned from 2009 when they retired the R40Ms, and most of the R42s so quickly. The only thing that has a chance of knocking out the RTS from FB IMO are displaced NGs from the Bronx and Staten Island once the new LFS order goes to the latters, but that's not happening for a few more weeks or months. 

At most by May the only thing I can see is this:

About 100-130 RTS will remain in active service, all the RTS from ENY would be gone or about 5-6 would remain there. For the D60HFs, around 15-30 would remain, with all the D60s out of GH (and possibly Tusk) retired. All of the 2003-2004 Orion VII CNGs would be long gone by then, as they will likely retire by the end of this month since the tanks are close to expiring. 

The 2002-2004 Orion VII OG Hybrids will also likely be in the process of retiring by then given that the new LFS order has seen some progress as of late. 

 

[Interested Rider]

1 hour ago, WestFarms36 said:

I do support having Elected officials speak up about their community, anyone can agree on that. It's just the lack of self investigation, and dependence of unreliable sources to make these claims. I personally would not want to be stuck riding on a 23 year old bus, everyone deserves to ride in a modern fleet, but this has nothing to do with poor communities. Jackie Gleason is an all CNG Depot, they can't house Diesels. They got new XN40's in 2016, and new XN60's in 2018 because their older buses which were also CNG's were reaching their expiration date, and after their tanks expire they can't run. The case with the XN60's had to do with articulation of the B35 which is a heavy capacity route. Right now we are in the middle of an order and we still got hundreds of more buses to yet come in, we can't rid these RTS's without replacements because those depot's will have a shortage, and runs will be slashed due to lack of buses. Another point that the author failed to mention is that these depot's with these old RTS's are currently getting new buses at the moment and there is still more to come. That author has not used a single reliable source, and the  has plans for 251 more diesels and 275 Hybrids, with a plan to fully electrify their fleet by 2042. This isn't rocket science to anyone who does their research. This is taught in grade school, make sure you use reliable resources to state your claim and provide factual evidence to support your claim, this isn't too hard to follow. Journalists are taught this as well as they study, but most likely the Daily News has some biased poorly skilled writer putting out their opinions without evidence, and not using evidence to support their own claim. This writer has dishonored himself, and has affected his newspaper's reputation based on this article without any evidence or background information supporting his claim.. I am not a journalist god damn it, and hell do I know that in order to have reliable information you have to...

1) Research Information from MULTIPLE RELIABLE SOURCES.

2) Make sure those multiple sources POINT OUT A CONSISTENT POV.

3) Make sure to collect evidence necessary to SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.

4) Make sure you INCLUDE DETAILS and BE SPECIFIC about EACH and EVERY EVENT/CATEGORY.

5) Make sure you are using REAL STATISTICS.

...Simply not hard to follow, and this author has failed to do those 5 simple steps that a Journalist/Writer should be applying on their everyday story. Then the Journalists wonder why their credibility is mopped around the floor.

This is the way research should be done but unfortunately when a "journalist" starts off with a conclusion and then presents "facts" that support his conclusion then this is not journalism but is an opinion and the journalist should have stated it in this hit piece. I know I am repeating myself as I posted it in another post but it is important that I post it again.

When I prepare a document that is being sent to a company complaining about something or I speak before a governmental agency, I follow the format that is posted here. This individual did not follow this procedure and what makes this even worse is that he is using a "bully pulpit" to write an article that should have never been written.

Everyone agrees that the RTS had to go and I am concur  with the this statement as going up those steps with packages, it has become nothing but hell but the way the article was written, it was designed to target the East New York garage. Ironically if the so called "journalist" would have taken the time to search the internet and looked at this website, he would have not written the article in the first place as East New York was getting rid of its RTS. Based on the numbers here, the buses would have been gone by the end of April. Again, since this did not fit his conclusion. it is my opinion that he wrote the article anyway as he knew that by writing a "hit piece", it would gain the attention for what the writer wanted it to do in the first place.

What this so called "Journalist" did was the two garages that have the remainder of RTS will have to pray that the bus division will provide them with approximately 50 buses each for Flatbush and Ulmer Park because management has a deadline. In the interim in the rush to scrap RTS's which would have been done by the end of December as new buses were coming in to replace them, runs that have to be filled will not be filled. Will the riders of Ulmer Park and Flatbush have to suffer because he wrote an article that has hurt us not the targeted communities? I went through this when I worked over the years and it is not pretty when you do not know whether the bus will arrive. Staten Island was the worst and I could go back years as it was a regular thing with them out there before and after the Marchi bill which required that 15% of all new buses be sent to Staten Island. The local services suffered as they took the local buses that were supposed to provide that service and used them in express service as they had a shortage of express buses. 

My late nephew was a reporter in a small town and in my conversations with him, he would never write something without following the five steps Westfarms posted here as if he did, he would have been run out of town. Yet, here a hit piece like this gets prominence in the media which indicates to me that they do not check their articles either. This is a tragedy as instead of honest reporting, we are being fed this garbage.

As far as the pollution problem, my windows are wide open as even though I live on a major bus street, our management insists on keeping heat on morning, noon and night so all that junk is getting into my lungs.

 

[aemoreira81]

Do the remaining RTS buses have to go? Yes. However, IMO, it should be delayed (last bus retired) until the end of the spring pick.

[BreeddekalbL]

All because some politicians and the daily news we're crying pissing and moaning

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

I heavily doubt that they will be gone in a mere two months for fairly obvious reasons:

First, if they were to do so, we would end up with a MASSIVE bus shortage across all depots without the RTS. 

Secondly, it's a bunch of crap given that they announced this just after Brooklyn hippies complained about old buses, just as how  line riders complained about R32s a few years back. The MTA is probably only saying this just to shut the hippies up. Now granted, while it may look confirmed it's final, it's pretty damn obvious they're hiding something deep down. I mean, why would they just announce this right after they complained? Seems to imply the latter IMO... Hipsters also complained about R32s in like 2011-2012, the MTA promised they would be gone by 2017, but guess what, they're still here two years later. The only thing about the RTS that could most likely be correct is all the RTS out of ENY will be gone by the end of the month, given that they've lost lots of RTS just within the past few weeks. 

Next, it's physically impossible to retire all 160 remaining RTS in just two months considering that the Gen-I Orion VII CNGs for example took a little over a year to retire, as will the 7685-7819 batch once they retire. If it takes a year to retire merely 100 buses, then there's no way that they'll be gone in just two months from now. Even with accelerated XD40 deliveries, I only see them reducing the remaining RTS total to minimum of around 100 by then. In fact, most retiring fleets take more than a year to fully retire. 

Also, both Flatbush and Ulmer Park haven't been receiving any of the new 2018-2019 XD40s. It should be fairly obvious they won't retire these without replacement if they learned from 2009 when they retired the R40Ms, and most of the R42s so quickly. The only thing that has a chance of knocking out the RTS from FB IMO are displaced NGs from the Bronx and Staten Island once the new LFS order goes to the latters, but that's not happening for a few more weeks or months. 

At most by May the only thing I can see is this:

About 100-130 RTS will remain in active service, all the RTS from ENY would be gone or about 5-6 would remain there. For the D60HFs, around 15-30 would remain, with all the D60s out of GH (and possibly Tusk) retired. All of the 2003-2004 Orion VII CNGs would be long gone by then, as they will likely retire by the end of this month since the tanks are close to expiring. 

The 2002-2004 Orion VII OG Hybrids will also likely be in the process of retiring by then given that the new LFS order has seen some progress as of late. 

 

Yes but you forget that nearly every week we get about 5-10 XD40s. Right now we have about 155 RTS in revenue service. We are 7 weeks away from May 10. If things stay at this pace at least 70 XD40s could arrive and replace the RTS, which equals to half of the remaining units. If things with NovaBus picks up in April, the goal of 37 RTS by the end of April can be met. This isn't even including artics that are bound for WF sooner or later since Quill has more than enough artic buses for service (some SBS XD60s have been hitting both M14 routes lately) which displaces more XD40s. 

Some of you guys complain about losing RTS and I am an RTS fan myself, but their age is clearly showing. Its time for them to go. And honestly I feel like this was more or less the final plan anyways save for a couple more months of running (probably summer the latest) and the OGs retiring along with them.  If it wasn't for the shutdown being changed I would argue that they stay, but even for the "Williamsburg Link loops" we don't need a massive fleet. 

The MTA made the last RTS run date "official". Let's see if they hold true to that date.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Although it sucks that they're rushing the RTS to be gone, I'm glad they're leaving. They're really showing their age and they are just not suitable for today's standards. With the new low floor buses, they're are so much better for picking up people especially the elderly and disabled, and fit more people than the dated RTS. Time to go. Hopefully the R32s will be gone soon as well. 

[Jdog14]

The kneelers seem to be going bad on these buses (seen so many B46 buses that wouldn't leave cause the kneeler was stuck). It's been real 

[Brillant93]

I understand some may be upset about the RTSs. But they are aging or have aged and even though they drive fast or do better in weather you can’t deny they are having issues and they’re not environmentally friendly. I’ve also read across saying how people opt for them because there’s more space? Well any other but would have the same space if people would learn how to walk up the stairs of the newer buses when the operator asks people to. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

2 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I understand some may be upset about the RTSs. But they are aging or have aged and even though they drive fast or do better in weather you can’t deny they are having issues and they’re not environmentally friendly. I’ve also read across saying how people opt for them because there’s more space? Well any other but would have the same space if people would learn how to walk up the stairs of the newer buses when the operator asks people to. 

I always thought that the newer buses have more space and the RTS have less space.

[Brillant93]

4 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

I always thought that the newer buses have more space and the RTS have less space.

The RTSs are just high floors so it’s just one floor going across. The newer buses are low floors but the back has an upstairs and often people crowd themselves into the front part of the buses. It seems smaller or seem like it can’t pack the same amount of people in but in reality a lot of people don’t like standing in the back of the bus. RTSs maybe bigger but if everyone just moved to the back people can pack in. 

[JeremiahC99]

3 hours ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

Oh My GOODNESS!  Finally they're are leaving!.. 🙆‍♂️ Woo hoo for those who doesn't understand or who's depot doesn't carry those buses, they are not some operators favorite due to no space at the operator compartment, and its annoying to load both Wheelchairs and walkers passenger. I salute the RTS for its power and snow weather master, but it was time to move on since now we are on the new buses style. Woo hoo!! 

I'm going to miss these as well, especially since how they have been a big icon to Brooklyn and the rest of NYC in general. I have lived in Brooklyn since 2002, when I was two, and when I have commuted to school or went out with family to Manhattan, and other places, it would be fairly uncommon to see them on Utica Avenue (B46), Flatbush Avenue (B41) and other corridors near my house. Even in subway hubs have I always seen RTS one way or another. Now that I am 19 years old, its going to be a lot different not seeing these buses around anymore when commuting to/from my college classes at CUNY City Tech in Downtown Brooklyn, especially since I have grown up seeing these a lot. In fact, just this evening, I was on bus 4958 on the B41 Limited to Bergen Beach, and decided to take some footage of the bus ride on my way home to my house in Flatlands, two blocks away from the route.

On another note, does anyone know how to upload pictures and videos onto here and into a post from an iPhone?

[ABOGbrooklyn]

13 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

On another note, does anyone know how to upload pictures and videos onto here and into a post from an iPhone?

As annoying as it is, you have to upload it to YouTube or Flickr first...

[Eric B]

9 hours ago, Lex said:

For one, the guy that wrote the original article claimed that Flatbush Depot is in a poor neighborhood. While there are certainly poor people in the neighborhood, Flatlands is not a poor neighborhood, nor is the nearby Mill Basin (an even wealthier one).

He probably meant where the routes run; that's what's important, not where the garage is located. The north-south routes go through poorer sections of Brooklyn.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

1 minute ago, Eric B said:

He probably meant where the routes run; that's what's important, not where the garage is located. The north-south routes go through poorer sections of Brooklyn.

But Ulmer Park has the second highest amount of RTS in Brooklyn after Flatbush, so the argument seems flawed. ENY RTS were decreasing dramatically before the article was posted.

[Q23 via 108]

I don't know why, but every time I think about an RTS I think of Biggie Smalls. (Been in Brooklyn too long) 

[MHV9218]

Terrible misinformed article leads to kneejerk policy. Remove the RTSes in May, wait for the system shortage in June. Foolish stuff here. Some of those Quill and ENY buses have another 2-3 years in them, and the 1996s are proof of how long this fleet can last. I'm going to be shaking my head watching these go.

[SevenEleven]

4 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Terrible misinformed article leads to kneejerk policy. Remove the RTSes in May, wait for the system shortage in June. Foolish stuff here. Some of those Quill and ENY buses have another 2-3 years in them, and the 1996s are proof of how long this fleet can last. I'm going to be shaking my head watching these go.

System shortage in June? Whatever gets the Xcelsiors sent to Castleton. 🤷🏾‍♂️😂

[Q23 via 108]

So is it gonna be like this?

ENY 1st, then MJQ, then Jamaica, then Ulmer Park, then finally Flatbush.

Also, how convenient that RTS will retire at Flatbush, and that's the bus on the Depot sticker.

[Jdog14]

1 minute ago, Q23 via 108 said:

So is it gonna be like this?

ENY 1st, then MJQ, then Jamaica, then Ulmer Park, then finally Flatbush.

Also, how convenient that RTS will retire at Flatbush, and that's the bus on the Depot sticker.

 

OR it can be Ulmer last since Flatbush can take in NGs