Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

Based on the Bronx implementation schedule. They released the Final Plan in 1Q22 and implemented it at the end of 2Q22.

Makes sense...

[BrooklynBus]

They are not ready for a final draft yet. There are too many problems with the current draft. 

[limitednyc]

They are saying the final proposal  will be out after new-years. Ps first draft of Brooklyn due in Dec. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

7 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Sounds like a Summer 2023 implementation.

If the Q44 is expected be modified, implementation would most likely occur when OMNY is fully implemented (end of 2023)

Edited September 20, 2022 by MysteriousBtrain

[Future ENY OP]

44 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

If the Q44 is expected be modified, implementation would most likely occur when  OKNY is fully implemented (end of 2023)

OMNY..

Also, my guess is they are waiting for the results of the Brooklyn Re-design plan (draft version) to make any additional changes..

[limitednyc]

Makes sense do to the integration with bk in North Brooklyn and South western queens.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

They are not ready for a final draft yet. There are too many problems with the current draft. 

Well they've got a good four months to work out the issues. Quite frankly, the last draft isn't terrible, at least on the express side anyway. They just need to add back more service and make some tweaks and keep lines like the QM3, QM4, QM10 & QM40 in tact.  The local bus lines definitely have some issues though. I spoke at a few events out in Northeast Queens over the summer and there were a litany of complaints about local bus service. They're going to have to actually INVEST money in this plan, which they refuse to do.  

[BrooklynBus]

One issue is Astoria losing direct bus service to Manhattan which will also result in extra fares which the MTA has said nothing about. Another is the loss of 1600 bus stops despite 2500 signing a petition against this. So how can they claim to be addressing rider concerns? 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

12 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

One issue is Astoria losing direct bus service to Manhattan which will also result in extra fares which the MTA has said nothing about.

I'd like to see this addressed through creative fare-capping (e.g. one fare in a 3-or-4-hour period and two fares in 24 hours).

 

 

12 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

 Another is the loss of 1600 bus stops despite 2500 signing a petition against this.

All of us knew that they would have to revisit the bus stop reductions.

[BrooklynBus]

But there is no indication they are revisiting the bus stop situation.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

But there is no indication they are revisiting the bus stop situation.

True, but at the same time, they have had months of feedback and I know that at quite a few community meetings I spoke at in Queens, this was a concern for a number of residents and there were elected officials present at them, so I'm sure this got back to the  given my discussions with various people. Now, I have no idea what they may do. We'll have to wait and see. What I can say is that they are not under any time crunch as they were under Byford who wanted redesigns done with hard deadlines.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Krocyoin]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:58 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Alright, so here's my thoughts on routes in Flushing, Fresh Meadows, and NE Queens (here's the first part of my comments of routes in Central Queens)

Q12, Q13 - Not exactly sure how this is helpful, and on top of that, would push more people east of 165th Street on the Q13 if anything. Also, sucks if you're anywhere on Sanford and want to head further out east (but not to Nassau). I would keep them as they currently are, I don't see that much complaining with the existing pattern anyways, since the Q13 covers a lot of Northern Boulevard anyways. 

Q16, Q61, Q62 fiasco - The rationale behind this specific routing is kinda dumb, honestly. They say they're sending the Q16 down College Point Blvd it's for space, but they're kicking the Q16 out of its place to have both the Q61 and Q62 routes take its place, the former which is a peak hour route, and the latter which isn't much better with its atrocious off-peak headways. That's a very inefficient use of existing space. On top of that, the Q62 doesn't even have to exist as a route, it's not necessary. Literally have the Q16 begin where it current does in Flushing (39th Ave between 138th & Union Streets), and keep it going to Fort Totten, with all trips via Utopia Parkway. That's roughly the same it'll take to have Q16 buses operate as proposed in this draft plan, give or take a few minutes. 

All those resources that would be freed up from the Q62, I would use to boost the Q61, which if anything, should have been the one route receiving the full time service on the basis of providing coverage (they're already gutting QM20 off-peak service on that corridor with the same plan, you would think they would compensate with SOME service in that area). In any case, I also think that the Q61 should not be a "rush route", I don't think it has the ridership to warrant it. 

Q17 - I'm perfectly fine with wanting to retain the section between Flushing and Fresh Meadows separate from the Fresh Meadows - Jamaica portion, and I understand that. Personally though, I think Union Turnpike is a weird location to end it. Anyways, what I would do is extend it instead to 230th Street & 69th Avenue in Oakland Gardens (replacing the Q26 and Q27 on their respective portions; see my Q26/Q27 comments below for more of an explanation). 

Q19 - There's no reason why such a routing survived the first route. There's no purpose besides attempting to reduce layover space. They love to throw the reliability argument when it suits a specific proposal, when it comes to others (especially with the proposed Q25 and Q44), *crickets*. What I would do is split the route as follows:

• Q19 - Astoria Projects to Main Street  Station, as proposed in the draft plan between both points
• Q15 - Main Street  Station to 150th Street & 7th Avenue

Q20 - Overall not a bad route except for the southern portion of the route. I don't know why they would think Briarwood is a better terminal than Union Turnpike subway. However I do share the same concern that College Point Retail Center is left with only the Q76. The Q17 on 130th Street is not that close from most parts of the place, it's pretty huge. I would extend the Q25 there instead (see below for more specifics).

Q23 - Those peak frequencies may be sufficient for Union Turnpike, but that's gonna overserve 108th Street, even though I think 108th Street should use more service than it currently gets. Problem is short-turning service may provide less bus service than it currently gets on 108th Street, but that's what you get when combining two routes like this. What I would do is the following:

• Q23 - Ditmars Blvd & 23rd Avenue to either Crescent Apartments or Glendale Atlas Park Mall, via Yellowstone Blvd south of Austin Blvd, with a boost to rush hour service.
• Q29 - Union Turnpike  to 188th Street & 64th Avenue

Q25 - Wow, they have this route really doing the most with it being the local for both Merrick Boulevards and Kissena Boulevards. I would have those segments separated from each other for the sake of reliability. Also, whatever happensI would also extend the route on its northern end, operating via Whitestone Expressway and 20th Avenue to serve College Point Center to replace the Q20A. It would still serve the beloved NY Times processing plant, lol. I would have it end with the Q76. Also, regardless what ends up happening (split or not), you don't need the Q5, Q85, and Q25 on Merrick during overnight hours. 

Q26, Q27, Q78 - I don't really have that much of an objection to most of what's being proposed here, with the Q26 and Q27. However, I think that the stint on 73rd Avenue makes the route less appealing than when it used the LIE, since it misses that commercial area around HHE. I don't know if that route change from the first draft was done to solidify the ridership on the Q78 route, but I would have the Q26 operate via HHE between Francis Lewis & Springfield Blvds. If the goal is to want a route along 73rd Avenue serving Flushing, what I would do instead is have the Q17 serve 73rd Avenue, and that part of Oakland Gardens that they have the Q27 doing as well. This way the Q26 stays on Horace Harding, and the Q27 can terminate at HHE (which would compensate for the Q17 extension). In addition to serving Flushing, the Q17 serves various other trip generators (or passes near them), including the Fresh Meadows commercial area, various public schools (FLHS, Ryan, P.S. 173), and Queens College, not to mention commercial Kissena Boulevard, and that would loom more useful for more people than the intermediate area along 46th Avenue / Hollis Court Blvd. I would potentially have the Q27 replace the Q88 out to Little Neck instead (see Q73, Q88 for more comments on this part). 

Q28 - Since I would have the Q13 "rush" route operate on Northern Blvd instead of Sanford Ave, I would have the Q28 operate as a local route. It's not that long of a route anyways, so it's not the end of the world.

Q31 - I have no problem with the route south of the LIE at all, and I'm fine with the route operating as it is up to Northern Boulevard. I'm not really into that portion north of Northern. I would probably have it serve more of Francis Lewis Boulevard instead, and maybe perhaps also serve Auburndale LIRR directly in the process. I was thinking of perhaps operating via Utopia Parkway, Station Road, 192nd Street, Francis Lewis Boulevard to/from Cross Island Parkway. 

Q65 - Don't know how I feel about having buses rerouted onto Sanford Avenue, because although there's a bit of a commercial area that's hard to get with north-south service in that area around Broadway LIRR, I don't know how much demand is there for such a service (my guess is not a lot). Also you're not gonna get people walk to the bus from Sanford Ave to Broadway LIRR, lol. Honestly, I would be more inclined to support such a change, if it serve a little more of Northern Blvd. So have the Q65 operate via 162nd Street, Northern Blvd, and Roosevelt Avenue between Main Street  station and 46th Avenue. That way it hits more of the shops and businesses along 162nd Street and Northern Blvd, and in Murray Hill, plus  you also directly serve Broadway LIRR Station. 

As far as that whole bit south/east of Jamaica Center, completely unnecessary. If there's anything I would do to the Q65, is perhaps extend the route south of Jamaica LIRR to replace the Q60. That's roughly the same mileage & runtime they give for this draft Q65, and it lessen the blow of deleting the Q60 south of Archer Ave (from my comments in my first sequence of posts). 

Q73 - They can relabel this route however they want, this route I personally see not working out very well, except south/west of Queens Boulevard (because it happens to replace part of a route, lol). So they're not having the route go out to Little Neck (they apparently swapped the Q73 and the Q88 past Springfield), but again, who exactly does this serve? This is not an adequate replacement for the Q88 in any way shape or form, and having straight routes like this isn't for the better if it doesn't serve much of anything but exclusively residential areas. It misses most of the Fresh Meadows apartment complexes (and the commercial area too), and looks more like a route dependent on taking away from existing ridership bases more than anything. 

What I would do this route, is have it take Horace Harding between either Utopia Parkway or 188th Street (I'm leaning more Utopia Parkway) to Springfield Blvd. If it does take Utopia Parkway, perhaps it may be better suited to operate out to Little Neck instead of the Q88, IDK. But I don't have too many problems with operating this route up to Springfield Blvd. In addition with the Q23 proposal, I would have the Q73 operate along Metropolitan Avenue and terminate at Woodhaven Boulevard (service to Crescent Apartments would be served by the Q23 branch to Crescent Apartments, see my comments above).

Q88 -  Okay, so they have this route operate 24/7, which btw is amazing. However what I'm not really too much of a fan of several things. First off, I personally wish this route still connected to/from NICE routes (at least went out to Hillside Ave) so that I don't have to rely on the f**king train, to then connect to the  train, to then connect to a NICE bus on weekends with how goddamn atrocious both subway lines are on weekends, but whatever. Regardless of that, I don't agree with straightening it out on Horace Harding completely. It should still serve 73rd Avenue between 188th Street and Springfield Boulevard.

I also don't know if it's necessary to have the Q88 serve Little Neck. I'm not familiar with Q30 ridership patterns in that area out east, but I think if there's any destination which I think potential riders would be more inclined to use or, it's a bus to Flushing instead of the Q30 to Jamaica. This means I would have the Q27 replace the Q88 east of Springfield, while having the Q88 terminating at QCC. 

 

I'll probably comment on SE Queens, the Rockaways, and Western Queens later on. 

I think the Q12/Q13 routings west of should be left alone and I agree that the Q31 should directly serve the Auburndale LIRR Station, but the problem is that 192nd Street and Station Road are very tight for bus traffic, both roads would have to be widen, the height clearance for the underpass along 192nd Street is high enough for buses to pass through at 12'10". I also think that the Q31 should stop at Utopia Parkway/45th Avenue, and for the Q12/Q13, it should stop at Northern Boulevard/193rd Street instead of Northern Boulevard/194th Street.




These are my proposals for the neighborhoods of Auburndale and Bayside: 



I forgot to add a bus stop for Utopia Parkway/45th Avenue and Corporal Kennedy Street/34th Avenue.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Krocyoin

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, Krocyoin said:

...I agree that the Q31 should directly serve the Auburndale LIRR Station, but the problem is that 192nd Street and Station Road are very tight for bus traffic, both roads would have to be widen, the height clearance for the underpass along 192nd Street is high enough for buses to pass through at 12'10". I also think that the Q31 should stop at Utopia Parkway/45th Avenue, and for the Q12/Q13, it should stop at Northern Boulevard/193rd Street instead of Northern Boulevard/194th Street.




These are my proposals for the neighborhoods of Auburndale and Bayside: 



I forgot to add a bus stop for Utopia Parkway/45th Avenue and Corporal Kennedy Street/34th Avenue.

 

The community would probably prefer to have the Q31 use Utopia, Crocheron, Francis Lewis. The stop for Auburndale LIRR would be either Utopia & Station Road or Crocheron & 192nd.

[Krocyoin]

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The community would probably prefer to have the Q31 use Utopia, Crocheron, Francis Lewis. The stop for Auburndale LIRR would be either Utopia & Station Road or Crocheron & 192nd.

In that case the Q31 would just stay on Utopia, no point in going on Crocheron, then on Francis Lewis, and then back on Utopia.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

3 hours ago, Krocyoin said:

In that case the Q31 would just stay on Utopia, no point in going on Crocheron, then on Francis Lewis, and then back on Utopia.

Have you traveled along that part of Utopia? The residents there will NIMBY away any proposal that puts buses there.

[Krocyoin]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:56 AM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Have you traveled along that part of Utopia? The residents there will NIMBY away any proposal that puts buses there.

Yes I have a lot and I could care less about those residents. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 9/27/2022 at 1:50 AM, Krocyoin said:

Yes I have a lot and I could care less about those residents. 

Yeah, of course you don't since it won't impact you. lol  

  

On 9/21/2022 at 8:22 AM, BrooklynBus said:

But there is no indication they are revisiting the bus stop situation.

And don't expect that to change... The goal is the same... Reduce run times by:

a. straightening lines

b. eliminating stops

See a pattern?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Krocyoin]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:04 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, of course you don't since it won't impact you. lol  

  

And don't expect that to change... The goal is the same... Reduce run times by:

a. straightening lines

b. eliminating stops

See a pattern?

It won't, you're right, but Q31 should have been rerouted a long time ago, it's current routing is super wonky, it should stay on Utopia Parkway, and this way it can replace Q16 Utopia Parkway service, which has low ridership, and go to College Point or maybe even Fort Totten which would make it the first Fort Totten - Jamaica route, I feel like it would garner more riders, and the frequencies would get better also. 

[N6 Limited]

After reviewing the Brooklyn Redesign, I noticed a discrepancy with the Q51 “XT”.

In both the Brooklyn and Queens redesigns, the Route profile maps indicate the eastern terminal is Francis Lewis Blvd.  However,

On the Brooklyn Remix Map, the eastern terminal is Linden and Francis Lewis Blvds.

On the Queens Remix Map and route profile stop listing, the eastern terminal is Linden Blvd and 235th Street.

[limitednyc]

I noticed that to.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

After reviewing the Brooklyn Redesign, I noticed a discrepancy with the Q51 “XT”.

In both the Brooklyn and Queens redesigns, the Route profile maps indicate the eastern terminal is Francis Lewis Blvd.  However,

On the Brooklyn Remix Map, the eastern terminal is Linden and Francis Lewis Blvds.

On the Queens Remix Map and route profile stop listing, the eastern terminal is Linden Blvd and 235th Street.

They tend to have a lot of continuity errors because of the different progress's in the redesign.

[IAlam]

I also noticed on the Brooklyn redesign it said the Q59 will stay on Queens Bl but also still has the stop on 56th Av. Which doesn't make sense to me because there is no way for the bus to make the left turn on Grand Av unless the bus stop will be located on the main road. 

Also going back to that discussion about the Q98 going via Elliot over Grand looking at the map now if the purpose of the Q98 is to get to Ridgewood as fast as possible I feel like it'd be better off just getting back on the expressway after serving QCM/Woodhaven Bl. The service road between Grand Av and Queen Bl/Woodhaven isn't typically that busy for most hours of the day.

[Q43LTD]

Why do I get the feeling that the proposed ,   and 63 are possible stubs?

[Cait Sith]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:40 PM, Q43LTD said:

Why do I get the feeling that the proposed ,   and 63 are possible stubs?

I wouldn't consider the 7(although, that 75th Street terminal raises some questions) and 22 to be stubs, that 63 is though on the eastern end. It should've ended at Queens Place instead of being right at Grand/Queens Blvd(I kinda get why they did it, but its still looks random as hell on a map). The Q63 is basically a result of a years-long battle for an alternative service for the ADA and elderly for stations between Queens Plaza and Jackson Heights, with Grand Avenue for some odd reason being the stub terminal. But I suppose it makes for an easier turnaround.

[Q43LTD]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:41 AM, Cait Sith said:

I wouldn't consider the 7(although, that 75th Street terminal raises some questions) and 22 to be stubs, that 63 is though on the eastern end. It should've ended at Queens Place instead of being right at Grand/Queens Blvd(I kinda get why they did it, but its still looks random as hell on a map). The Q63 is basically a result of a years-long battle for an alternative service for the ADA and elderly for stations between Queens Plaza and Jackson Heights, with Grand Avenue for some odd reason being the stub terminal. But I suppose it makes for an easier turnaround.

In the original yet botched redesign, the Broadway route ended at Queens Center. As far as the goes, I would have ended it a Cypress Hills  near the old B18 terminal. The , where would it turn around in Five towns?