Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[IAlam]

21 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

Damn.... And I was rooting for the Q44 to Fordham. Oh well, guess it wasn't much of a demand anyways.

There is demand it's just that it shouldn't be the job of the Q44. Had it been a Flushing to Fordham route that would be one thing but Jamaica to Fordham, is just too much. Jamaica to Fordham would honestly benefit from a regional express bus, but we don't do that here in MTA land.

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

There is demand it's just that it shouldn't be the job of the Q44. Had it been a Flushing to Fordham route that would be one thing but Jamaica to Fordham, is just too much. Jamaica to Fordham would honestly benefit from a regional express bus, but we don't do that here in MTA land.

At one point in time before the 2010 cuts, the MTA had concepts of a few "new" routes that could have been a reality. The Q94, a "super-limited" type of route that would supplement the Q44. It would've went from Flushing to 205th Street during school days(one trip) with all other trips ending at Fordham Plaza with the intent of replacing the x32 with that one tripper, and the Bx50 from Fordham to LaGuardia. The B62 was also going to be a route that went from Williamsburg to Manhattan in a weird roundabout routing via Greenpoint and Long Island City. The Q75 pre-2010 cuts was also proposed to be extended to Queensborough Community College, which would have done wonders at the time.

Edited January 2 by Cait Sith

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

2 hours ago, IAlam said:

There is demand it's just that it shouldn't be the job of the Q44. Had it been a Flushing to Fordham route that would be one thing but Jamaica to Fordham, is just too much. Jamaica to Fordham would honestly benefit from a regional express bus, but we don't do that here in MTA land.

I personally didn’t see how they were going to cram in the Q44 buses with the Bx15 and 17 occupying the limited space at Fordham Plaza.

[Fire Mountain]

Ima just state my opinion based on the Q75 Rush Route and then something else that could’ve worked also 
1. Idk why they so desperate to have a damn bus terminate at Briarwood. Yes, it connects to the E and the F, but I’ve been over there a lot, and I don’t really see how they can have a bus terminate there. What, will it sit on queens Blvd or some shit? It’s literally a small block between QB and Manton St where the current Q20 And 44 SBS already have a stop at, so how tf is that gonna work?

2. Is there really a need for 3 rush routes along Union Turnpike?! Like they already have the Q46 and 48 as rush routes planned. I fail to believe they need a third rush route there. It’s just pointless imo

I personally feel this is a throwaway route pretty much, cause when you look at the 45,46, & 48 route profiles, the 75 isn’t even mentioned along Union Turnpike when said “Union Tpke as a whole will see an increase in combined service” so why is the 75 even needed? And on top of that, they should switch that route with the Q30 And leave THAT route heading to Little Neck and the 75 to QCC. At least then it’ll have a better purpose…

 

Hell, it would even do better at Kew Gardens with the 46 and 48! And while we at it, if anything, I feel they should’ve just had the 10 head to Fresh Meadows so it’ll serve Union and Lefferts instead of bringing the 45 due to that route only being a bit over 3 and a half miles. I feel the 10 may do some good along Union but that’s my opinion. Better than the previous plan along QB that’s for sure 

Edited January 3 by Fire Mountain

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

At one point in time before the 2010 cuts, the MTA had concepts of a few "new" routes that could have been a reality. The Q94, a "super-limited" type of route that would supplement the Q44. It would've went from Flushing to 205th Street during school days(one trip) with all other trips ending at Fordham Plaza with the intent of replacing the x32 with that one tripper, and the Bx50 from Fordham to LaGuardia. The B62 was also going to be a route that went from Williamsburg to Manhattan in a weird roundabout routing via Greenpoint and Long Island City. The Q75 pre-2010 cuts was also proposed to be extended to Queensborough Community College, which would have done wonders at the time.

There was also the Q12 to Great Neck (using Great Neck Road instead of Middle Neck Road).

 

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

The Q75 pre-2010 cuts was also proposed to be extended to Queensborough Community College, which would have done wonders at the time.

It would have approached QCC using East Hampton Blvd and 56th Avenue, but the whole concept was NIMBYed away.

[NBTA]

I’m currently compiling the route changes I made in the simulator. Some are purely fantasy, some are sorta realistic, and some were explored or were routes already proposed and liked. The only depot/routes I have to do left is LaGuardia, and Fresh Pond/Grand Avenue. 

[Fire Mountain]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

There was also the Q12 to Great Neck (using Great Neck Road instead of Middle Neck Road).

Say what now? 👀 They actually planned the 12 to head to great neck at one point??? Bro I was thinking that could work with this plan but apparently they don’t wanna do that (mostly cause of the N20G I’m assuming)

[Ex696]

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

At this point, I would only have the B13 running in & out of there, with absolutely nothing terminating in there anymore

Then what happens to the B20?

[checkmatechamp13]

6 hours ago, IAlam said:

There is demand it's just that it shouldn't be the job of the Q44. Had it been a Flushing to Fordham route that would be one thing but Jamaica to Fordham, is just too much. Jamaica to Fordham would honestly benefit from a regional express bus, but we don't do that here in MTA land.

What stops would you have such a route make, how often would you run it, and would you charge the full $7, or something lower (say, $5)?

One of my friends recommended a Sunset Park - Elmhurst - Flushing route (there's vans that run that route that charge $5 and seem to get decent ridership). 

3 hours ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

I personally didn’t see how they were going to cram in the Q44 buses with the Bx15 and 17 occupying the limited space at Fordham Plaza.

I'm sure some could've taken their layover on East 189th Street if necessary.

In any case, continuing from my previous post

Q7: To add on, I do agree with the routing west of Cross Bay Blvd

Q15: At this point, I'd rather just have the current Q15/15A setup, and the current Q20A/B setup than what they have proposed for the area. The Q62 isn't even going to be running that frequently for the extra diversion they're subjecting Beechurst riders to.

Q16: I would've had it ending by College Point Blvd & 59th Avenue, to supplement the Q98 as a local in that area. On the northern end, I'm alright with them consolidating all of the service to Utopia Parkway (but I do think the Q61 needs to run full-time for those along Willets Point Blvd, including the stretch east of Francis Lewis Blvd).

Q17: I would've preferred it running up to College Point, and being truncated on the southern end as originally planned. The Q76 already provides the connection to Jamaica (albeit not to the LIRR station)

Q18: I agree with this change.

Q19: I don't mind them leaving the route as-is, but they really need to run that route later than 9pm.

Q20: As mentioned, at this point, I'd just leave the Q15/15A and Q20A/20B setups instead of the setup they have planned for the College Point Shopping Center.

Q21: As mentioned, I'd leave this as the Howard Beach route instead of the Q41.

Q22: We all saw the truncation on the western end coming from a mile away...on the eastern end, I think the Lawrence extension might've actually worked out...I think part of the issue was that the Q113 itself wouldn't have stopped at that shopping plaza (instead running straight up Nassau Expressway). Maybe if all three routes (Q7, Q22, and Q113) actually stopped there, it would've been a more convenient transfer point.

Q23: At first glance, I thought it was absolute nonsense that they truncated it to Roosevelt from the south, but on second glance, it might not be the worst idea in the world(still don't agree with it, though)...riders from points north still have the Q14 which connects to the Queens Blvd Line at Woodhaven Blvd...still think it would be better off going to East Elmhurst via 108th Street as originally planned.

Q24: I'd agree with the truncation if it weren't for what they're replacing it with on Broadway

Q25: As mentioned, I would've preferred the Q17 be the one to serve the residential section of College Point as proposed in the New Draft Plan...actually for that matter, instead of ending it by the Ulmer Park Depot, maybe this could be the route to connect the College Point Shopping Center to Flushing...the Q76 covers anybody needing to head east (including for transfers to the Q44/50 heading northbound) and the Q25 brings people to Flushing and points south...

Q26/Q27: Honestly, I preferred the New Draft Plan setup...Q26 from Flushing to Cambria Heights, and Q27 from College Point to Oakland Gardens...the only issue I had with that plan is that Oakland Gardens ends up getting overserved...honestly, it might not be the worst idea to have branch it, and have half the buses run down the HHE to Little Neck, and half the buses end in Oakland Gardens...

Q28: I agree with basically leaving it as is

Q29: I would've liked it if they had the Q80 from the New Draft Plan combined with the Q63 (rather than having it backtrack to the Queens Center Mall and leave those riders in Glendale/Middle Village without a connection to Jackson Heights). That was really the main issue with that segment of the plan...

Q30: Agree with everybody that it has no business ending at Briarwood of all places...I think a boost in service on the Q31 for Utopia Parkway riders (who are now completely screwed frequency/span-wise) and having the Q75 run along 188th Street/HHE would've been a good way to serve the area

Q31: As mentioned, the frequency/span is completely inadequate for that corridor. The reroute on the northern end is good, though (although I'd also be open to sending it to College Point as proposed in the New Draft Plan).

Q32: Not much to say here...I guess good that they're tweaking the route in the QBP area

Q33: Not really sure what to say regarding the Q33/47 terminal swap

Q35: No comment...the whole Newport vs. Rockaway Beach Blvd vs. covering both thing has been going back and forth since the beginning of the redesign process.

Q36: Definitely doesn't need to run down to Jamaica Avenue and back up...I'd also consider if something else can cover the northern end of Little Neck Parkway, and if the Q36 could run to North Shore University Hospital as was proposed in the original draft plan (QT34). 

Q37: Wasn't really expecting an extension on the southern end to JFK, but whatever...

Q38: Looking at the previous draft, I think they might've been able to get away with running along Juniper Valley Road if they actually added stops in that area (after 69th Lane, the next stop was all the way over by 80th Street).

Q39: I guess I could agree with leaving it as-is

Q40: I think it should've taken 143rd Street - Linden Blvd - Sutphin Blvd and left 109th Avenue/Lakewood Avenue covered with the Q41

Q41: I think Howard Beach should've been covered by a Woodhaven Blvd route, but in any case, if the Q41 is covering it, it should serve 84th Street in both directions.

Q42: This route should just run across 110th Avenue/Brinkerhoff Avenue to either Brewer Blvd or Sutphin Blvd (depending on if it is desired to serve Jamaica Center vs. Jamaica LIRR station).

Q43: They should've went through with the extension to LIJ

Q44: They should've kept the Fordham Plaza extension. The Belmont area having limited east-west connections was brought up during the Bronx redesign, and they figured they'd address it with a Queens route...now at the last minute they throw up their hands and decide not to address it at all...not cool (and even for those heading to Fordham Plaza itself, it would've been quicker than the Bx9 even before the transfer is factored in)

Q45/46/48: I suppose the setup is alright during daytime hours, but definitely all routes should be running local during overnight hours. Also, the Glen Oaks route  should be a full-time route.

Q47: I definitely would've liked the idea of a through-69th Street route as proposed in the New Draft Plan. If they're doing all these studies to potentially build a light rail line (or whatever the Triboro RX/Interborough Express is supposed to be), they could at least start off with a simple bus route for some of these connections.

Q49: Not much to say, basically being left as is...

Q50: The Co-Op City segment needs to run similar to the BxM7 and not make a full loop around the whole neighborhood...as for the combination going to LaGaurdia....yeah that's definitely not what most people had in mind when they referred to a Bronx-LaGuardia route.

Q51: Well definitely better than not having anything along the western segment of Linden Blvd....I personally would've left the extension to Gateway (allows better connectivity to the Woodhaven Blvd routes and anything terminating at Rockaway Blvd station).

Q52: I'd try my hand at extending it to Far Rockaway via Bayswater...

Q53: Not much to say here

Q54: Not much to say here

Q55: I would've preferred the Jamaica extension

Q56: Not much to say here

Q58: Definitely should be traveling via Roosevelt Avenue into Flushing, and not backtracking when there's already the Q98

Q59: I would've tried my hand at an extension to the Q38 terminal in Rego Park

Q60: I'm surprised they left it as-is, with the extension to South Jamaica and all....

Q61: This should be a full-time route

Q62: See Q15/15A and Q20A/20B comments

Q63/66: I guess this is one way of splitting the ridership between 35th Avenue and those heading straight to LIC

Q64: I'd give it a shot extending some trips along Jewel Avenue - Utopia Parkway - 73rd Avenue (To my understanding, most of the NIMBYs were west of Utopia Parkway...there's a chance it might be able to go through along Jewel).

Q65: I think this route is good as planned

Q67: Definitely happy to see more frequent weekend service. I would prefer to run it down Hunterspoint Avenue, Greenpoint Avenue, 48th Avenue, and 48th Street, to avoid the traffic down by the LIE (especially around Van Dam Street). I'd probably have the B53 run from WBP to Astoria via Greenpoint Avenue and 39th Street/Steinway Street (there definitely needs to be something connecting Sunnyside to Astoria using 39th Street). I'll think of the exact details sometime soon.

To be continued....

[Lex]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Q25: As mentioned, I would've preferred the Q17 be the one to serve the residential section of College Point as proposed in the New Draft Plan...actually for that matter, instead of ending it by the Ulmer Park Depot, maybe this could be the route to connect the College Point Shopping Center to Flushing...the Q76 covers anybody needing to head east (including for transfers to the Q44/50 heading northbound) and the Q25 brings people to Flushing and points south...

I'm guessing that's supposed to say College Point...

[NBTA]

These are currently the changes I have done. I’m still tweaking some of the routes that are already finished, and I will be taking suggestions as well. 

Disclaimer: if a route isn’t listed, there’s no changes or it hasn’t been done yet.

Q4: Extension into Elmont/Jamaica LIRR

Q5: Extension to Jamaica LIRR

Q6: to JFK Plaza

Q7: to JFK Cargo

Q9: Runs via 135th Avenue to Lefferts Airtrain

Q10: SBS.

Q11: Runs a shuttle between Howard Beach and Spring Creek Park, via Rockaway Blvd Station.

Q12: extended to Great Neck Plaza

Q13: More rush stops.

Q14: Extended to Ridgewood Terminal via Linden Hill Cementary.

Q15: Extended to Beechhurst via 10th Avenue/Powell Cove Blvd

Q17: SBS. 

Q21: stays alive, absorbs the Q29 route north of Woodhaven Blvd. 

Q22: Exploring extension options, will most likely be extended to Five Towns via Inwood.

Q25: SBS, local replaced by Q95. 

Q27: only local sections are between Francis Lewis-HHE, and Murdock Av-120th Av

Q28: more rush stops, extended to Fort Totten Park. 

Q29: May be abolished or changed. 

Q30: runs overnight to QCC, all week, rerouted via 188th Street as the Q17 local.

Q31: Extended all the way up Utopia Parkway, terminates at Fort Totten.

Q32: Rush stops in Manhattan and Queens Boulevard. 

Q34: replaces the Q25 in college point, and the Q23 to LaGuardia Hotels.

Q37: replaces the entire Q10 local branch south of Rockaway Blvd.

Q40: extended to JFK Plaza.

Q41: replaces Q11 Hamilton beach branch.

Q42: extended to Jamaica Hospital, and Francis Lewis/Linden.

Q43: original second proposal, extended to LIJ.

Q45: Extended into Kissena Park.

Q50: SBS, full time to Co-Op City. 

Q51: Original proposal, but no SBS.

Q52/53: Both to Woodside.

Q57: original proposal, combination of Q110/112, but a rush version. 

Q60: extended to Columbus circle, Q90 is Rush version.

Q63/66: 66 extended to ferry, and more rush stops. 

Q64: extended to 188th Street via HHE.

Q65: via Hillside in Jamaica.

Q73: new route, via 73rd Avenue starting at Kew Gardens. Runs fully via 73rd Avenue to Springfield Blvd, then to UBS Arena.

Q75: extended to Great Neck Plaza.

Q76: extended further north into College Point.

Q78: new route via Bell/Springfield Boulevard into Fort Totten, and into JFK Plaza.

Q90: Rush version of the Q60.

Q95: Local version of the Q25.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

I'm sure some could've taken their layover on East 189th Street if necessary.

If they did, the 44 would of had to turn onto Webster and Fordham Rd a la Bx55 to go back down. Or the routing would of had to be adjusted to go via Bathgate so they can take over the layover spot of the bee-line buses.

Side note, it would of been better if the proposal opinion bit was made a separate post instead of cramming it with the reply to my post.

[checkmatechamp13]

6 hours ago, Lex said:

I'm guessing that's supposed to say College Point...

Yeah I mixed Ulmer Street with College Point and ended up saying Ulmer Park

4 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

If they did, the 44 would of had to turn onto Webster and Fordham Rd a la Bx55 to go back down. Or the routing would of had to be adjusted to go via Bathgate so they can take over the layover spot of the bee-line buses.

Side note, it would of been better if the proposal opinion bit was made a separate post instead of cramming it with the reply to my post.

Yeah those two would be options if there wasn't enough layover space at Fordham Plaza itself. And good point...I just wanted to get my thoughts out without double-posting.

[Lawrence St]

11 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

If they did, the 44 would of had to turn onto Webster and Fordham Rd a la Bx55 to go back down. Or the routing would of had to be adjusted to go via Bathgate so they can take over the layover spot of the bee-line buses.

Side note, it would of been better if the proposal opinion bit was made a separate post instead of cramming it with the reply to my post.

Then where would you put the Bee-Line buses?

[NBTA]

39 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Then where would you put the Bee-Line buses?

Probably behind the 17.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

If they did, the 44 would of had to turn onto Webster and Fordham Rd a la Bx55 to go back down.

Of it could drop off on 3rd Avenue with the Bx17, then right Fordham, right Washington to lay over, then right 189th to pick up with Bee-Line, then left 3rd Avenue.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:10 PM, B35 via Church said:

Q14:  You're not wrong here, but I just don't care for this Q14 in general because it's an obvious mish-mash (and a poor attempt at one at that) of current routes that I don't see doing much for the network - even if they continued it along Fresh Pond to connect with the (which of course, would do a hell of a lot more for Eliot riders, than just stubbing it at Metropolitan)....

Way I see it (which I have mentioned in the past too), the Q14 doesn't need to run north of Roosevelt Avenue. Although I wouldn't personally terminate anything at Corona Plaza, it would be less of a hassle with the Q14 based off of frequency. That way the Q23 would continue operating up to East Elmhurst and dealing with those folks. 

Q31:  I'd much rather increase Q50 service (the current rendition, not this impending Q50 to LGA BS) & send some Q50's over to Bronx State, HMC, and Jacobi (well, Eastchester/Pelham Pkwy South) via Jarvis-Middletown-Waters, etc....

I'm not necessarily opposed to that either, although at that point I think it can be it's own standalone route (with a slight variation to operate via Zerega Ave & Westchester Square) enroute to/from the medical centers. 

Q36: The question I have is, why bother continuing to cover all of LNP with one route at this point? I honestly don't think LNP area patrons would even wince if they have kept the previously proposed Q45 (the Hillside-LNP route)... I have less of an issue with the Springfield-Jamaica-LNP aspect of this impending Q36, and more of an issue with this having the Q36 continuing to uphold the entire serving of LNP like the old Q79 did.... I don't think there should be any type of route (rush, or whatever) running along Jamaica av, for the sake of retaining service along all of LNP..... I see it as nothing short of odd to be more decisive about having a Jamaica av - LNP route, than having a Hillside route turn down Springfield.... That's how that part of this take of yours comes off to me.

As long as *something* covers the 212's (which the Q82 does, which I get you don't care for), I'm straight.... The impending Q36 going Hillside - Springfield - Jamaica, I have zero issue with whatsoever (as I see it garnering more patronage, compared to the current Q36)..... I just don't see this need to cover all of LNP... I would even question having buses run north of Northern at this point also....

My gripe here isn't with Little Neck Parkway at all, it's about the setup with the Q2/Q36/Q82/Q110 in that area. The Q36 could have been that route to cover the far east end of Jamaica Avenue in Queens to the  at Jamaica Center for those who asked/needed it, while also connecting to the  at Parsons Boulevard. The overlap between the Q36 and the Q110 would have then been a local/limited setup (the Q110 local, Q36 limited hence why I mentioned that it could have remained being a rush route). 

Q38: I simply find this attempt at breaking up the current Q38 to be very underwhelming.... There's been better proposals for doing so on this forum alone, over the years.... Even with that truncation from the  with the impending Q14, you're still higher on it than I am.... In any case, funny that the same sentiment you convey regarding the existing Q38 in the first half of that first paragraph, is the exact same sentiment I have for this impending Q14.... As much as IDC for anything ending at either of the current Q38 terminals (being that they're keeping the impending Q38 ending at the Apex apartments), I'd do more with the route on the western end - sending it to terminate at/around Lorimer/Metropolitan 

For me with the Q14 more favorably for two reasons:

1. It goes to Corona Plaza which I frequent [no more walking to the Q58 to get home and walking even more after getting off, or doing the stupid ass backtrack to Willets Point when the Manhattan-bound  skips 103rd (which lately has been almost every f**king weekend) to just miss the Q47 and wait 30 minutes ].
2. Its frequencies and service span (off peak in particular) not only rivals the existing Q38, but the current Q47.

Overall I agree they didn't give it too much thought with the Q38 split, the proposed Q14 managed come out better than the proposed Q38 section. As far as the Q38 portion goes, what would it do to get to Metropolitan/Lorimer, just straight across Metropolitan or what? I have no idea personally what to do with that segment, so anything that will juice ridership up I'm on with. I'm with you on the sentiment regarding it's Rego Park/Forest Hills terminal (feels a bit north to be called Forest Hills, but on the Q38 timetable they has flipped notations between the two in the past).  I still think that if the Q38 isn't going anywhere east of Flushing Meadows Park, that it should end at Queens Blvd/63rd Drive. Has no business running north/east of it. 

Q50: Enough can't be said about this particular impending route.... Guess I'll come up with another crafty way of conveying a disapproval of this thing..... So, let's bear witness to the 21st century version of the Qbx1 - instead of the problem being at Pelham Bay Park, it'll be at Flushing.... I fully expect within months of this abomination coming to fruition that they'll start scaling trips back to Flushing from The Bronx.....

..and if their reasoning for such an extension is in fact to reduce layover space in Flushing, it would end up being for nothing, SMH. They should have left the Q48 more or less alone at this rate. Not necessarily suggesting it, but if one had to choose a route to merge the proposed Q50's segment west of Flushing with, I would have gone with either the Q12 or Q26. It's gonna absolutely suck for 108th Street riders that they'll have buses coming all the way from f**king Co-Op City and dealing a bunch of traffic on the way to Flushing. Reliability would go out the door, perhaps that may lead to an uptick in ridership on the Q19 and Q63/Q66 too.

Q67: I'll take a truncation from Queensboro Plaza to Court Square given the 30 minute weekend and evening headways. The only connection you're outta luck for is to/from the Broadway lines. However, the stop removal on this route is insane, it closer to a limited-stop service than even some of the so-called "limited" services in this plan. In most case you're not saving much of any time because the stops are not used like that, so it's not even that big of an issue to keep the stop around. 

So would virtually everyone else... The industrial Maspeth workers mostly disembark at Hunters Point  & essentially everyone else on the bus is off the bus at Court Square.... This truncation is a no-brainer to me.... As for the sentiment regarding the impending route being closer to LTD service, I can't complain, because that's exactly what I think the route should be.... Kind of like a Queens version of the B103.... I've always thought it should serve a little more of Queens, due east...

What would you have done with the Q67 on it's eastern end? That former QT77 in the first draft would have been interesting to see in reality. While it would have provided some benefit, it screwed by too many people by having nothing serving the  from residential portions of Middle Village unless you were close to the Q54 (which cut off a vast majority of the neighborhood). 

Q68: Shocked in what sense?

As in the negative reaction from some due to the seemingly random and absurd route east of 48th Street. It's not as random as it looks, but it is kinda absurd given how they designed it. That eastern segment of the Q68 along Roosevelt & Woodside Avenues should be part of a route not the Q68, and nothing should be terminating like that around Elmhurst Hospital out of all places. 

Q82: They're underserving this route IMO because the Q2 will still serve Hempstead av.... I see the Q82 slowly taking pax. away from the Q2 along Hempstead av.... While the Q2 will be busy picking up pax along Hollis av (dwell times at stops increasing), this thing'll be flying along Hillside...

The Q82 would be faster than the Q2 without a doubt, although given that the Q2 will be up to twice as frequent as the Q82 I don't know whether there will be any consistent gains. 

Your last statement is a part of the issue I have with this route: aside from the Q2 being more frequent, the Q43 (and Q1) along Hillside would operate much more frequently, and the n1/n6 stops by UBS Arena which already likely attracts some of those people plus those in Queens very close to the city line. They're even adding n6 trips between Jamaica and UBS Arena. Put them altogether, and I see a route that outside of the 212s, would largely get its ridership on the basis that it was the first one to show up. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. For all we know they'll water it down or throw some new curveball when the final plan actually comes out.

Q83: I'm of the belief they believe that the current Q42 is majorically used as an Q83 supplement... So in order to change what they likely see as duplicative service (pattern), they're making the Q83 a rush route, as to not continue having 2 local routes along that part of Liberty.... In any case, it makes no sense whatsoever....

Agreed, especially since that overlap is not as grand as they make it seem. 

Q86/Q87: I'm not sure if this is in opposition to, or in concurrence with those 2 sentiments of yours above, but I'll say this.... I do not like what they're doing with the Q86 on three fronts:

1. Running it down to residential Rosedale as a means to replace the current Rosedale branch of the current Q85.... No Rosedale resident worth their salt (especially in large numbers) is going to choose that Q86 over the Q111 for getting to/from Jamaica - especially given how many god damn stops they have the Q111 skipping along Brewer...
2. Apparently pitting the current Q5 usage to/from Green Acres & current Q85 usage to/from Green Acres against each other - and using THAT as a barometer to determine service levels of the Q86 & Q87 past Merrick/Laurelton Pkwy.
3. Giving the Q86 that much more service than the Q87 in & of itself....

To sum it up, even given those BS headways, I bet anything there'll still be more demand for Green Acres along Merrick, compared to demand for getting deep into Rosedale from Merrick.

I think we generally are in agreeance here for the most part. We're definitely in agreement with point 3. If the Q87 had better headways (which I would take away from the Q86 to boost the Q87) then yeah I would see it being a worthwhile route, since not only would it have more purpose along the trunk and isn't just "another bus that shows up".

In terms of subway access, without a doubt the Q111 would dominate in Rosedale. Especially since it also connects with the  which the Q86 doesn't do. Don't know if the Q86 was intended for "crosstown" access in that area or what. However because it has more service it'll be the rush route with more ridership (despite the Q87's sole segment having an actual ridership generator), which is why I say that I see the Q86 slightly beating out the Q87.  

Q111/Q115: Better than the previous proposal, but I'm still not at all satisfied with what they're doing with Brewer... Like, why is the short turn a] a LTD, and b] being used as a basis for determining how service should run along the rest of Brewer (as in, south of Farmers)..... I personally miss when it was just the Q111 & the Q113 along Brewer, but that's neither here nor there.... To parrot what I said in my assessment, if they're going to have this Q115 be a thing, then the Q111 may as well be the rush route, the Q114 may as well be the LTD, and the Q115 should most definitely be a local.....

I wasn't as concerned when I saw it was a LTD, because their new "LIMITED" routes are essentially local routes with slightly further spacing. For reference, the elimination of Q66 stops on Northern was more drastic than the amount of existing local stops removed on Brewer under this proposal. Most of the current Q111's stops along Brewer will be served by the Q115. Seems like a branding/marketing type of thing that's going on, but it's really not all that, it's a local with slightly less stops. There are some notable gaps south of Baisley though, which I'm not on board with. 

What I wouldn't have a problem with is if the Q114 at least make existing LTD stops north of Linden. Since that route's going to 5 Towns and Far Rockaway, there's more intermediate ridership that's being skipped vs. the Q111 whose ridership base is largely concentrated to/from Jamaica, whether for Jamaica itself or the subway. 

 

Replies in dark blue.

[Q43LTD]

On 12/31/2023 at 1:22 AM, Nova Fly Guy said:

Once they extend to Williams it became non exclusive as many didn’t know it existed. Didn’t live far from command one of the best privates outside of Queens Surface. The last stop was E 92nd and Flatlands Av the B103 was really for working class people in the PH.

This is a similar setup when the was Triboro

[limitednyc]

What do u mean by the ph.

[NBTA]

1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

What do u mean by the ph.

Huh?

[limitednyc]

2 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Huh?

Referring to the connected post about  the b103

[Nova Fly Guy]

4 hours ago, NBTA said:

Huh?

Private Houses 

[limitednyc]

26 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Private Houses 

Thanks it was designed for Padgett basin and Seaview  to be a downtown  bk version of the bm2.

[checkmatechamp13]

Continuing from this post:

Q68: The B57 already provides a general link from Williamsburg to Jackson Heights...this definitely seems like a rush job (and again, they forgot about the Sunnyside - Astoria connection via 39th Street that was requested in the original draft).

Q69: I would've preferred it run down to Hunters Point as originally proposed.

Q70: Not much to say here...they left it as-is

Q72: There's definitely latent demand for increased frequency along Junction Blvd if the MTA were willing to tap into it.

Q75: Yeah, no way should this be ending in Briarwood...it would've been much better taking over the southern section of 188th Street from the Q17

Q76: I agree with running it down 20th Avenue instead of 14th Avenue, and running it a bit deeper into College Point.

Q77: Definitely not an adequate substitute for the Q78 down Springfield Blvd. I definitely preferred how they had service divided up along Springfield/Bell under the New Draft Plan as opposed to the Proposed Final Plan.

Q78: See above

Q82: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q83: The "rush service" along Liberty isn't going to work. It would be better to route the Q42 out of that area and leave the Q83 as-is along Liberty. 

Q84: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q85: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q86: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q87: As mentioned before, I think this could be good as a Merrick Blvd local route.

Q88: I'm alright with leaving it as-is, but it definitely needs a longer service span on the weekends.

Q98: The route itself is great, but the Q58 needs to complement it better by going up Roosevelt Avenue

Q101: I'd prefer the Steinway route to head into Sunnyside

Q103: I'm alright with how it's proposed

Q104: I would've preferred a through-Broadway route as previously proposed

Q105: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q110: I would've actually liked to see it run through Jamaica to Ozone Park, but I'm good with how it's proposed

Q111: I'm good with how it's proposed

Q112: Definitely shouldn't be backdooring its way into Jamaica

Q114: See Q7/22 comments

Q115: Not much to say here...just a Q111 short-turn

[Cait Sith]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Q112: Definitely shouldn't be backdooring its way into Jamaica

I used to say that until I took rides on it from Jamaica and from Lefferts Blvd. The ridership along Tuskegee Airmen Way is definitely there from both ends, and the MTA tried to maintain that with the Q109, which I didn't like, but didn't hate. I too would have personally preferred a more straighter approach to Jamaica, but, something would have to fill that gap with Tuskegee Airmen Way.

In any event, I'll take the current day Q112 over that god awful Q57 any day of the week.