Experts say plans to extend 7 line subway to New Jersey are a dead end, feds won't fund it

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Eastern Queens is not gunna go for a extension. They have the LIRR Port Washington branch for commuters and trips to the city, and plenty of bus routes to Flushing. Besides, most of those neighborhoods in Northeast Queens are rich neighborhoods where everyone drives a car, I dont see them giving up their cars or welcoming an extension of the Flushing EL in their neighborhoods.

That may have been true 30+ years ago when the City was in shambles and the population of Bayside was much more homogenous. But that is certainly not true today. The fact is, Eastern Queens is expanding in population, yet we have the same transportation infrastructure we had 30 years ago. It is not coping well with a larger commuting population. As for the people who rely on cars, you don't really think that's by choice, do you? Most of those who drive do so because they have reverse commutes and mass transit between Queens and Nassau & Suffolk Counties leaves a lot to be desired for the reverse commuter. They're not driving those cars to Manhattan with its exorbitant parking rates (well, most aren't). There are plenty of people here who would welcome the 7 extension that was proposed long ago, especially on a day like today when the Port Washington LIRR line got suspended due to a person being hit by a train this morning at Auburndale.

[metsfan]

........

 

 

Orrrrr, we could just leave things as they are and be just fine.

 

You might be just fine, but there are tens of thousands of people who are affected more and more each day by the capacity constraints of the north river tunnels and the portal bridge. Portal bridge is going to be replaced, that isn't in question they all ready started site prep and other foundational work to allow equipment to access the area, clearing spots by the river for staging etc.

 

But because of the tunnels part being delayed for who knows how long, they will need to take steps to ensure it won't be felt hard till years down the line vs right away. Even with the fare increase, even with the economy struggling to recover, both NT and amtrak are seeing absolute record ridership, and that isn't going to stop, in fact as the recovery really takes hold more and more people will be riding.

 

7 train extension is not going to help as much as combining all of the things i listed, because it isn't relying on one thing or even 2 things. what i'm suggesting is re-arranging how people get around in the affected areas to allow time till new tunnels are built.

 

Also i think there needs to be a reminder that the east river has 2 sets of tunnels, if it didn't LIRR would be facing the same crisis as NJT.

 

- A

[T to Dyre Avenue]

........

 

 

Orrrrr, we could just leave things as they are and be just fine.

 

Sure, if you want to wave bye-bye to old businesses, potential new businesses and hardworking, middle-class taxpayers and say hello to new and higher taxes. Just like the clowns up in Albany seem content to do.

 

CTA doesn't go to Indiana and the Tube doesn't go to France.

So what? Both systems leave their city limits. Didn't some sort of administrative agreements have to be worked out for those systems to cross municipal boundaries? And who in their right minds would extend the Tube under the English Channel to France, anyway? Don't compare apples to oranges here.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Nova RTS 9147]

The Chicago Transit Authority doesn't serve Chicago only. The London Underground doesn't serve London only. Why can't the New York City Subway leave New York City for a few stops?

 

Because the CTA and The Tube doesn't serve the surrounding municipalities for political sh*ts and giggles. If you're going to expand subway service into New Jersey, then do it with a real benefit to commuters. Not as a political ploy to bilk money out of the FTA with no real benefit.

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

So how come New York City Buses leaves city limits (the Q5/Q85/Q111/Q113) and state limits (the S89)?

 

You forgot X17J X17c Qm NST/ Glen Oaks

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Because the CTA and The Tube doesn't serve the surrounding municipalities for political sh*ts and giggles. If you're going to expand subway service into New Jersey, then do it with a real benefit to commuters. Not as a political ploy to bilk money out of the FTA with no real benefit.

What makes you so sure there would be no real benefit in doing this extension? What makes you think it's just a political ploy? If there are stops in densely-populated Union City and Weehawken, do you think no one will use them and continue to deal with NJ Transit buses that are at the mercy of Lincoln Tunnel traffic?

[Alargule]

Turns out we're talking old news here. 84 years old, to be precise.

[NX Express]

Turns out we're talking old news here. 84 years old, to be precise.

 

The SAS is just as old. And it's obviously desperately needed.

 

Also, all of this talk about "OMG, it's called NYC Transit, so it can't go to NJ" is pure nonsense. Things like that have happened before, and they can and will happen again.

[IRT Bronx Express]

 

The SAS is just as old. And it's obviously desperately needed.

The Lexington Avenue Line will get more worse as the years progress. Ignore the extension to NJ for now and worry about it later. SAS is more important and overdue.

[lilbluefoxie]

That may have been true 30+ years ago when the City was in shambles and the population of Bayside was much more homogenous. But that is certainly not true today. The fact is, Eastern Queens is expanding in population, yet we have the same transportation infrastructure we had 30 years ago. It is not coping well with a larger commuting population. As for the people who rely on cars, you don't really think that's by choice, do you? Most of those who drive do so because they have reverse commutes and mass transit between Queens and Nassau & Suffolk Counties leaves a lot to be desired for the reverse commuter. They're not driving those cars to Manhattan with its exorbitant parking rates (well, most aren't). There are plenty of people here who would welcome the 7 extension that was proposed long ago, especially on a day like today when the Port Washington LIRR line got suspended due to a person being hit by a train this morning at Auburndale.

 

Again, you're dealing with rich middle class neighborhoods with a not in my backyard mentality. They aren't going to welcome a subway extension no matter if its an elevated or underground.

[Roadcruiser1]

[metsfan]

While you're at it, extend the tramway to mineola. Makes about as much sense.

 

- A

[NX Express]

While you're at it, extend the tramway to mineola. Makes about as much sense.

 

- A

 

I thought you were the one who was crying about the lack of cross-Hudson capacity. Face it. Christie killed ARC.

[Nova RTS 9147]

What makes you so sure there would be no real benefit in doing this extension? What makes you think it's just a political ploy? If there are stops in densely-populated Union City and Weehawken, do you think no one will use them and continue to deal with NJ Transit buses that are at the mercy of Lincoln Tunnel traffic?

 

How I know this is a political ploy:

 

1. Timing: Only weeks after the original (and frankly better needed) ARC tunnel is killed, Bloomberg decides to come out with this plan that's eerily similar to the one the penguin killed, but only at a fraction of the price? Now Bloomberg may be smarter (using that term very liberally) than the average politician, but he's still a politician. He knows this will help make him look like a pro transit mayor, even if his track record says otherwize.

 

2. Demand: Where was the demand for this 24 hours before this hit the press (And vanshnookenraggen doesn't count)?

 

3. Location: Secaucus Junction is pretty isolated. I havent heard of any other stops on this 7 extension, so I'm hard press to believe this will benefit others. If stops were added in Elizabeth, then I'd think differently.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I'm very pro transit expansion, but I'm pro transit expansion with a purpose that's not self serving.

 

Also, PATH could use a little expanding also. I'm sure there's no reason why they can't serve Hackensack or Elizabeth. And I'm not saying that MTA cant do it, but our agency doesn't have to be the only one expanding in Jersey!

 

Turns out we're talking old news here. 84 years old, to be precise.

 

I notice there's nothing that goes to where Secaucus Junction is today.

[goten2255]

why are they extending the 7 train to nj if the PATH can expand to areas that are not served very well.

 

the PATH can be expanded to Elisabeth, the port of elisabeth even also to Staten island as well since the PATH also is run like a Railroad as someone mentioned it but also i think the Staten Island Railway is also run like a Railroad as well? can someone fill me on that??

 

anyways i think with the MTA they should worry is NYC because like some other people say there are areas that are very underserved.

 

anyways even though the 7 is the train i grew up with since i used to live in corona when i was younger i think the 7 should be extended more into queens like uppereastern queens and to chelsea piers then to NJ.

 

also about this is that i would have perfered if the tunnels were constructed but that they meet up with the current penn station or can be build below the reglular penn station but one floor down not 15 floories down.

 

i wonder also why is the ESA being build so below grand central terminal if there is alot of underused platforms and tracks that Metro North can share with LIRR.

 

anyways i don't post often but i am goten2255 but my real name is bryant nice to meet all of you even though i live in Miami i am a new yorker was born and raised there.

[lilbluefoxie]

why are they extending the 7 train to nj if the PATH can expand to areas that are not served very well.

 

the PATH can be expanded to Elisabeth, the port of elisabeth even also to Staten island as well since the PATH also is run like a Railroad as someone mentioned it but also i think the Staten Island Railway is also run like a Railroad as well? can someone fill me on that??

 

anyways i think with the MTA they should worry is NYC because like some other people say there are areas that are very underserved.

 

anyways even though the 7 is the train i grew up with since i used to live in corona when i was younger i think the 7 should be extended more into queens like uppereastern queens and to chelsea piers then to NJ.

 

also about this is that i would have perfered if the tunnels were constructed but that they meet up with the current penn station or can be build below the reglular penn station but one floor down not 15 floories down.

 

i wonder also why is the ESA being build so below grand central terminal if there is alot of underused platforms and tracks that Metro North can share with LIRR.

 

anyways i don't post often but i am goten2255 but my real name is bryant nice to meet all of you even though i live in Miami i am a new yorker was born and raised there.

 

The Staten Island Railroad was formerly owned by the B&O Railroad and thus recognized by the government as a railroad rather than a mass transit system, and thus requires special regulations. Same with PATH it was formerly the Hudson and Manhattan railroad.

[Alargule]

The SAS is just as old. And it's obviously desperately needed.

 

Yes, and I even believe it's much more needed than a 7 extension across the Hudson. Let's take care of finishing that line first before spending any money on other expensive extension projects. Especially with today's financial climate.

[Alargule]

I notice there's nothing that goes to where Secaucus Junction is today.

 

Read the second article on that page. Isn't the Croxton Yard near the Secaucus Junction? Anyway, the idea of an extension of existing subway lines into NJ was already being proposed in the late 1920's.

[Eric B]

why are they extending the 7 train to nj if the PATH can expand to areas that are not served very well.

 

the PATH can be expanded to Elisabeth, the port of elisabeth even also to Staten island as well since the PATH also is run like a Railroad as someone mentioned it but also i think the Staten Island Railway is also run like a Railroad as well? can someone fill me on that??

If the PATH expanded anywhere in that direction, it would be to the airport.

[goten2255]

yes i forgot to mention that since PATH could be expanded your right the newark airport should be first then it can go to elizabeth and to the port of elizabeth and go to staten island.

 

why Staten Island i say well because the SIR is run like a Railroad or Railway (as some have said) so i have thought as well if PATH and SIR have come to an agreement then PATH could serve areas of Staten island not currently served by SIR at the moment but could share in the future with the north shore SIR project it could share with them.

 

i know its radical but i believe it is possible for PATH to be extend to the airport of course but after the airport it can serve more areas dispite it being a unique Railway since Railways most people assoicted with huge diesel trains or electic trains that uses overhead wires, PATH uses Metro aka Subway like operations and it is considered a Railway.

[GojiMet86]

Now that we're talking about extensions to New Jersey, did anyone read the new article on nycsubway.org?

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/erj-1926-njplan.html

 

I never knew they had plans in the mid 1920s to make a New Jersey/ New York circle line.

 

[Roadcruiser1]

That looks pretty interesting, but why build a circle. If the ever builds a line to New Jersey here is how it should go New Jersey-Manhattan-New Jersey. That means running it from North Jersey (Secaucus) into Midtown via 34th Street send it down Third Avenue till it reaches the 14th Street Line. Then it would use the 14th Street Line to run back into New Jersey to go to Hoboken and Elizabeth.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

What about an extension that goes to Hoboken and Jersey City? This was suggested by a couple of posters on SubChat as an alternative to the extension. It wouldn't go to Secaucus but it would serve areas where transit use it already high. And you get larger, wider B-Division trains (though they'd have to be longer than eight cars to offer more passenger capacity per train than 11-car trains).

[Grand Concourse]

There is no legal reason why NYCTA can't go to NJ. If there is a PATH issue, do a crew change at the new 11th Avenue-Javits Center. Do we need this line, of course not but these politicians are thinking of a way around the ARC tunnel problem. As far as those of you who think Gov Christie should be removed, think again. He was right to turn down the remainder of the project without knowing what the costs and cost overruns were going to be. Is the ARC tunnel needed, of course it is but to ask someone to commit to a project without knowing the cost, is rediculous. Imagine you go to buy a house and you're told it's going to cost you $500,000 and then you're told but the cost may actually go up to $700,000 before it's done and perhaps even more. Wouldn't you think twice before proceeding with the project?

 

Thank you! :tup:

Everyone that's bashing Christie are so blinded about a new river tunnel that they fail to think what service cuts would then need to be made to cover those billions in cost overruns. Money can't be printed endlessly. Get the federal government to help out NJ via a bailout package. It would encourage the goal of providing jobs and fulfilling a vital need for Jersey-New York City riders.

I wonder if everyone that points the finger at Christie are thinking more as a railfan first than a taxpaying citizen more worried if there are enough cops on the streets, teachers in schools, etc...