LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[QM1to6Ave]

Question--Can I use a City Ticket on an LIRR train from Penn Station to Forest Hills during the morning rush hour (around 9 am)? The MTA site seems to say that peak fares are only charged in the morning going towards NYC, not from NYC to Queens, but it isn't totally clear to me. Can someone confirm that?

[danielhg121]

3 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Question--Can I use a City Ticket on an LIRR train from Penn Station to Forest Hills during the morning rush hour (around 9 am)? The MTA site seems to say that peak fares are only charged in the morning going towards NYC, not from NYC to Queens, but it isn't totally clear to me. Can someone confirm that?

Yes. Peak fares will always supersede off-peak fares anyway. Since you’re going opposite peak direction, this is an off-peak trip. CityTicket is fine.

[40 to 241st]

When will the Metro North serve penn station

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Yes. Peak fares will always supersede off-peak fares anyway. Since you’re going opposite peak direction, this is an off-peak trip. CityTicket is fine.

6 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Question--Can I use a City Ticket on an LIRR train from Penn Station to Forest Hills during the morning rush hour (around 9 am)? The MTA site seems to say that peak fares are only charged in the morning going towards NYC, not from NYC to Queens, but it isn't totally clear to me. Can someone confirm that?

To both of you: The problem is that they emphasize off peak hours, instead of off peak trips.... Even though it's an option, they really don't want City Ticket to catch on.

To QM1to6thAve: Peak trains aren't just time period specific, but also direction specific - AM rush towards Penn, PM rush leaving Penn...... While you would be traveling during peak hours, you wouldn't be on a peak train riding from Penn to get to Forest Hills..... So as Daniel said, you're fine.

[xD4nn]

12 hours ago, Far rockaway said:

What is the Purpose of the LIRR having West Hempstead Branch service. It seems like a wasteful service. There barely be any people using those trains. The train doesn't even stop at Valley Stream. They should just cut service on that line and use the service for somewhere else. And besides you got the nearby Hempstead train station.

Political purposes. The LIRR tried to abandon the line but a politician who lived along it refused to let them.

[xD4nn]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:52 PM, Lawrence St said:

What's the likelyhood that LIRR will send some M3's to MNRR to help them out?

Never. PTC is incompatible and third-rail shoes are incompatible. 

[QM1to6Ave]

3 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Yes. Peak fares will always supersede off-peak fares anyway. Since you’re going opposite peak direction, this is an off-peak trip. CityTicket is fine.

 

11 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

To both of you: The problem is that they emphasize off peak hours, instead of off peak trips.... Even though it's an option, they really don't want City Ticket to catch on.

To QM1to6thAve: Peak trains aren't just time period specific, but also direction specific - AM rush towards Penn, PM rush leaving Penn...... While you would be traveling during peak hours, you wouldn't be on a peak train riding from Penn to get to Forest Hills..... So as Daniel said, you're fine.

Thank you both for the quick replies! Much appreciated!

Yeah, it threw me off because I juat learned from this group that on the EXP bus, peak hours are in effect regardless of direction (such as for reduced fare cards). Go figure lol

 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Thank you both for the quick replies! Much appreciated!

Yeah, it threw me off because I juat learned from this group that on the EXP bus, peak hours are in effect regardless of direction (such as for reduced fare cards). Go figure lol

No doubt.

That makes sense for the Exp. buses though, as (for example), the [AM peak direction for a BxM bus is SB], while the [AM peak direction for a SIM & a BM (or X) bus is NB]....

[checkmatechamp13]

17 hours ago, Far rockaway said:

What is the Purpose of the LIRR having West Hempstead Branch service. It seems like a wasteful service. There barely be any people using those trains. The train doesn't even stop at Valley Stream. They should just cut service on that line and use the service for somewhere else. And besides you got the nearby Hempstead train station.

The West Hempstead Branch isn't within walking distance of the Hempstead Branch. Riders would end up having to take a bus to reach either the Babylon/Long Beach Branches or Hempstead Branch.

15 hours ago, Far rockaway said:

I wonder what's the reason for adding a shuttle service in the new schedule starting 5/22 on Friday's only between Penn Station and Jamaica.

What time is that shuttle?

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

No doubt.

That makes sense for the Exp. buses though, as (for example), the [AM peak direction for a BxM bus is SB], while the [AM peak direction for a SIM & a BM (or X) bus is NB]....

They could just do inbound/outbound. Reverse-peak ridership should always be encouraged on any commuter mode, since the marginal cost is low (Since B/Os would otherwise be deadheading back to their home depot).

In any case, I think reason would be that the B/O might log in as the opposite direction (So if it's a Midtown-bound SIM8, it might log in as an Arden Heights-bound SIM8 and accidentally charge the senior citizen half price for a peak trip).

[B35 via Church]

22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The West Hempstead Branch isn't within walking distance of the Hempstead Branch. Riders would end up having to take a bus to reach either the Babylon/Long Beach Branches or Hempstead Branch.

Hell, that's what goes on now with the n15..... I know you're merely throwing the options out there, but to be specific with what's going on currently (due to the W. Hempstead branch running like shit), riders from W. Hempstead tend to take the n15 towards Hempstead in the morning if they need another bus to complete their commute, and the longer ride towards RVC more if they want the train... You won't catch too too many ppl. taking the n15 from W. Hempstead specifically for the Hempstead branch....

Can't say I blame them (as there's something I never cared for about the Hempstead branch (not just the one station, but the whole branch).... Of the times I was around Hempstead & didn't feel like fighting/jockeying for position with the crowds to board the n6 (have to put up with enough of that crap here in Brooklyn), I'd find myself taking the n40 to the main line.... One thing I'll say about the n40 b/w Hempstead & Mineola is that it can be surprisingly quick, or a complete drag... No in-between.

22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They could just do inbound/outbound. Reverse-peak ridership should always be encouraged on any commuter mode, since the marginal cost is low (Since B/Os would otherwise be deadheading back to their home depot).

In any case, I think reason would be that the B/O might log in as the opposite direction (So if it's a Midtown-bound SIM8, it might log in as an Arden Heights-bound SIM8 and accidentally charge the senior citizen half price for a peak trip).

Yep... I was just speaking to the varied nature of what constitutes the peak direction for buses coming from the different outerboroughs of this city, compared to all LIRR trains coming from the one direction...

Before it didn't bother me, but I'm finding as I get older, b/o's having the wrong sign up is increasingly irking me.... Not that it matters, but I do wonder what percentage of it is due to honest forgetfulness, in comparison to b/o's simply not giving a damn... I don't want to hear it's 100 / 0 in favor of the former, because with the games some of these b/o's play out here, it would be a flat out lie....

[checkmatechamp13]

16 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Before it didn't bother me, but I'm finding as I get older, b/o's having the wrong sign up is increasingly irking me.... Not that it matters, but I do wonder what percentage of it is due to honest forgetfulness, in comparison to b/o's simply not giving a damn... I don't want to hear it's 100 / 0 in favor of the former, because with the games some of these b/o's play out here, it would be a flat out lie....

Yeah, one of the other issues is that on the bus tracking apps, it sometimes causes the bus to not be visible in the app. I remember when bus tracking first started being available, there were complaints from some of the B/Os about being tracked...in other words, they couldn't play games with the schedule, so now that you mention it some of it might not even be carelessness, but rather intentional.

[B35 via Church]

39 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yeah, one of the other issues is that on the bus tracking apps, it sometimes causes the bus to not be visible in the app. I remember when bus tracking first started being available, there were complaints from some of the B/Os about being tracked...in other words, they couldn't play games with the schedule, so now that you mention it some of it might not even be carelessness, but rather intentional.

I also remember those gripes about being tracked & TBH, I found it to be quite comical.... If you're doing your job & not resorting to shenanigans in the process, what's really the problem....

[Lawrence St]

Speaking of, why haven’t they attempted to reconnect both the West Hempstead and Hempstead branches? Would save a lot of resources having trains loop around Hempstead and go back to NY.

[Far rockaway]

With the New LIRR schedule in effect today, there are Long Beach Express trains originating from Grand Central making stops at Forest Hills, Jamaica, Lynbrook, and then Long Beach. But the train time app doesn't reflect this.

[QM1to6Ave]

On 5/21/2023 at 3:47 PM, B35 via Church said:

Hell, that's what goes on now with the n15..... I know you're merely throwing the options out there, but to be specific with what's going on currently (due to the W. Hempstead branch running like shit), riders from W. Hempstead tend to take the n15 towards Hempstead in the morning if they need another bus to complete their commute, and the longer ride towards RVC more if they want the train... You won't catch too too many ppl. taking the n15 from W. Hempstead specifically for the Hempstead branch....

Can't say I blame them (as there's something I never cared for about the Hempstead branch (not just the one station, but the whole branch).... Of the times I was around Hempstead & didn't feel like fighting/jockeying for position with the crowds to board the n6 (have to put up with enough of that crap here in Brooklyn), I'd find myself taking the n40 to the main line.... One thing I'll say about the n40 b/w Hempstead & Mineola is that it can be surprisingly quick, or a complete drag... No in-between.

Yep... I was just speaking to the varied nature of what constitutes the peak direction for buses coming from the different outerboroughs of this city, compared to all LIRR trains coming from the one direction...

Before it didn't bother me, but I'm finding as I get older, b/o's having the wrong sign up is increasingly irking me.... Not that it matters, but I do wonder what percentage of it is due to honest forgetfulness, in comparison to b/o's simply not giving a damn... I don't want to hear it's 100 / 0 in favor of the former, because with the games some of these b/o's play out here, it would be a flat out lie....

When you say the West Hempstead branch runs like sh*t, do you just mean it has bad headways, or also lots of late/missing trips, etc?

 

Also, thank you to you and@danielhg121, I used City Ticket through the app for Penn-->Forest Hills today. The conductor definitely gave me a second look when I showed the ticket, but then moved on. I knew what to say to him if he gave me a hassle

Edited May 22, 2023 by QM1to6Ave

[B35 via Church]

45 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

When you say the West Hempstead branch runs like sh*t, do you just mean it has bad headways, or also lots of late/missing trips, etc?

 

Also, thank you to you and@danielhg121, I used City Ticket through the app for Penn --> Forest Hills today. The conductor definitely gave me a second look when I showed the ticket, but then moved on. I knew what to say to him if he gave me a hassle

The subpar headways.

Anyway, IINM, if CityTicket wasn't valid around the time you rode out to Forest Hills from Penn this morning, you wouldn't have been able to even purchase it during your trip.... It wouldn't have been an option on the app (I could be wrong about that though).... In any case, good to hear that you completed your trip without incident/problem !

[danielhg121]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Also, thank you to you and@danielhg121, I used City Ticket through the app for Penn-->Forest Hills today. The conductor definitely gave me a second look when I showed the ticket, but then moved on. I knew what to say to him if he gave me a hassle

Haha. No problem. Dude probably is still set in peak mode when searching for tickets. Might’ve just worked a train into Penn. That and it’s Monday lol. Definitely takes awhile to get the 🧠 working.

[Far rockaway]

Does the 4:17, 5:51, 6:41 train to Oyster Bay from Jamaica deadhead back not in service, because I am wondering why can't the LIRR use those trains as passenger service heading back to Jamaica from Oyster Bay.

There's a gap in service from Oyster Bay to Jamaica, 4:42, 6:04, 8:28, 9:38 evening service. This is Weekday Schedule.

[xD4nn]

20 hours ago, Far rockaway said:

Does the 4:17, 5:51, 6:41 train to Oyster Bay from Jamaica deadhead back not in service, because I am wondering why can't the LIRR use those trains as passenger service heading back to Jamaica from Oyster Bay.

There's a gap in service from Oyster Bay to Jamaica, 4:42, 6:04, 8:28, 9:38 evening service. This is Weekday Schedule.

They do... They lay over.

[trainfan22]

Thought about fanning the Danbury Branch one of the next two days, then I saw that it runs on 3 hour headways when it's on an Sunday schedule, nvm lol. 

[GojiMet86]

41 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Thought about fanning the Danbury Branch one of the next two days, then I saw that it runs on 3 hour headways when it's on an Sunday schedule, nvm lol. 

And that is why I stick to buses in the city and the subway. Ain't nobody got time to be waiting 2 hours for some rural train or bus.

[jaf0519]

Question: I’ll be starting to commute on the LIRR from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma next month and am confused about the fare. The MTA website is not consistent with how much a monthly pass from zone 3 to zone 10 is. When you plan a trip from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma, the monthly shows up as $301, the same as the fare chart pdf. But if you plan using Find your Best Fare, it says a monthly is $334. Which is it? 

Also, is it possible to get a monthly Uniticket for MTA bus from Jamaica LIRR? I would be taking the Q65 to the train station and a Uniticket would save me a decent amount each month. 

[danielhg121]

43 minutes ago, jaf0519 said:

Question: I’ll be starting to commute on the LIRR from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma next month and am confused about the fare. The MTA website is not consistent with how much a monthly pass from zone 3 to zone 10 is. When you plan a trip from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma, the monthly shows up as $301, the same as the fare chart pdf. But if you plan using Find your Best Fare, it says a monthly is $334. Which is it? 

Also, is it possible to get a monthly Uniticket for MTA bus from Jamaica LIRR? I would be taking the Q65 to the train station and a Uniticket would save me a decent amount each month. 

Weird, the monthly price is $301 as noted in the TrainTime app. After all, that is where you can purchase the monthly ticket. The only place where I can find $334 as the Ronkonkoma to Jamaica price is: https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-02/LIRR_fare_table_02-26-19.pdf which is an outdated proposed sample fare chart on the last page. So I'm guessing they used outdated information for the Find Your Best Fare website which kinda leaves your head scratching because if your best fare website is inaccurate, it makes you wonder what else they've overlooked. 

No clue how the Uniticket works. Reading up on it, it seems like it's a very small program as people aren't even sure whether or not to show the pass to the driver or dip it into the farebox. I read somewhere that the MTA Bus Uniticket is only good at Flushing LIRR, not sure but I doubt the operators will say anything if you flash/dip at Jamaica LIRR.

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

Question: I’ll be starting to commute on the LIRR from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma next month and am confused about the fare. The MTA website is not consistent with how much a monthly pass from zone 3 to zone 10 is. When you plan a trip from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma, the monthly shows up as $301, the same as the fare chart pdf. But if you plan using Find your Best Fare, it says a monthly is $334. Which is it? 

Also, is it possible to get a monthly Uniticket for MTA bus from Jamaica LIRR? I would be taking the Q65 to the train station and a Uniticket would save me a decent amount each month. 

They implemented a 10% discount on monthly passes, so $301 is the correct amount: https://new.mta.info/document/19751

For the UniTicket, technically, it's only valid at Flushing, Rosedale, and Bayside. Not sure how it works in practice (I mean, there's nothing saying somebody from Jamaica couldn't be looking to board the Port Washington Branch at Flushing, so I assume they wouldn't give you a hard time).

[Calvin]

* A pointer on the Atlantic Terminal branch.  Between said terminal and Jamaica, St. Albans, Locust Manor, and Rosedale, also: Hollis and Queens Village, the ticket cost and ride is $5 either way. That's also included during the peak hours.  Last week, when riding the Shuttle from Atlantic to Jamaica, a LIRR conductor notified passengers that this entire shuttle line is $5 by paying Atlantic ticket to the machine. There were instances that passengers paid an off-peak fare only to go to a few stops at that line, but not affected if going past Queens borough: destination as Ronkonkoma or Huntington, Oyster Bay etc. 

* Re-cap for $5 fares on the LIRR is from terminals in Manhattan, Penn Station and Grand Central and Queens stations off-peak going up to Little Neck on the Port Washington branch. Only the 3:15 PM departure leaving Long Island City and 3:30 PM at Hunters point Av is considered city ticket if going to Queens Village or by Rosedale, transferring at Jamaica station. 

* The Metro-North is only Grand Central and Harlem-125 St valid on the Hudson line up to Riverdale, Harlem line up to Wakefield for the $5 fare off-peak. New Haven line only has Fordham going from Grand Central and vice-versa. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Calvin
City ticket and Atlantic Terminal clarification