LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[xD4nn]

53 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There was a lawsuit started previously by an attorney who uses the LIRR citing massive overcrowding and safety concerns. I don't know what ever happened with that lawsuit because it was started pre-COVID if memory serves me, but I can say from my personal experiences dealing with the  I haven't met anyone working there that wasn't capable. I think this is a mix of trying to push people to use Grand Central, arrogance, and also not listening to the needs of riders.  I have seen some petitions circulated and people beginning to write elected officials (as they should).

When you give riders draft schedules, solicit feedback and then do nothing with that feedback, there is a serious disconnect with leadership.

GCT has 3 times more ridership than Atlantic Terminal and ridership is still increasing. Writing to elected officials won't do much when the majority of riders go to GCT/Penn. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

43 minutes ago, xD4nn said:

GCT has 3 times more ridership than Atlantic Terminal and ridership is still increasing. Writing to elected officials won't do much when the majority of riders go to GCT/Penn. 

What does that have to do with the overcrowding that is happening at Penn?  That's where the majority of the complaints are coming from, so your response makes no sense. The majority of the ridership is still at Penn and that's who is circulating the petitions.  The gaps in service are extensive at times, esp. for those who had direct service and now have much longer commutes, but sure, continue slobbering on about GCT and how ridership is still increasing when trains are leaving there empty while Penn sees massive overcrowding. lol

Edited March 13, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There was a lawsuit started previously by an attorney who uses the LIRR citing massive overcrowding and safety concerns. I don't know what ever happened with that lawsuit because it was started pre-COVID if memory serves me, but I can say from my personal experiences dealing with the  I haven't met anyone working there that wasn't capable. I think this is a mix of trying to push people to use Grand Central, arrogance, and also not listening to the needs of riders.  I have seen some petitions circulated and people beginning to write elected officials (as they should).

When you give riders draft schedules, solicit feedback and then do nothing with that feedback, there is a serious disconnect with leadership.

It wasn't just not soliciting feedback, but actively being condescending about it to, effectively going them a "f**k you". I mean, consider what Janno Lieber's position was all this time leading up to it:

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/mta-east-side-access-eg7fx4fq
 

It's been a while since that's been out, and tbh I'm kinda surprised nobody is saying anything regarding those comments. He answered it in such a bizarre way. Either he couldn't come up with some corporate gibberish to hide the incompetence, or he was being real honest with how he felt here (neither of which is good, but one is worse than the other). 

Of course now Janno is changing course with his comments. That's only because he has to though. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It wasn't just not soliciting feedback, but actively being condescending about it to, effectively going them a "f**k you". I mean, consider what Janno Lieber's position was all this time leading up to it:

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/mta-east-side-access-eg7fx4fq
 

It's been a while since that's been out, and tbh I'm kinda surprised nobody is saying anything regarding those comments. He answered it in such a bizarre way. Either he couldn't come up with some corporate gibberish to hide the incompetence, or he was being real honest with how he felt here (neither of which is good, but one is worse than the other). 

Of course now Janno is changing course with his comments. That's only because he has to though. 

He's echoing the ridiculous comments made by Catherine Rinaldi (current LIRR & MNRR president), who said that "riders will adjust". To downplay the issues that have been documented with various videos showing people scurrying from one train to try to get another one located on another platform with mere minutes to spare, to people missing their connections entirely at Jamaica because their first train was late and didn't leave enough time to transfer. It's clear incompetence. I don't know who this @xD4nn guy is, but he should stop while he's ahead. The LIRR f**** up royally here and now are trying to backtrack and the schedules are still a mess overall.  The transfers are still not coordinated as they should be and there are still too many gaps in service where riders are facing much longer commutes than they did before.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Something else that the  is good at doing and that is telling lies.  They went in front of the media and claimed that they were making MASSIVE changes to the schedules after admitting that they screwed up (to put it mildly), but in reality, they haven't gone nearly as far as they claimed they were going.  I can say in dealing with them that they have instances where they make promises and then change course. I had asked them in a meeting to have some bus stops restored. I was promised that they would look at it and nothing came of it, so in sum they are hoping that people will stop complaining so that they can just leave some of the schedule as is, which still f**** over a chunk of the LIRR ridership.

Another major complaint has been last minute track changes and wrong track announcements, which is just inexcusable.  I've never had that problem with Metro-North. I check the app, the train runs on that track and if there is a last minute change, they announce it with enough time to make the track change.  What the LIRR is putting out is a disgrace.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[IAlam]

21 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Whoever was in charge of making the schedules for the added St. Patrick's Day service, are y'all serious?

The parade route is on 5th Avenue (like every other year), from 44th up to 79th Street. Instead of routing service to the brand new station thats very close to the start of the parade route, EVERY train added for parade goers is headed to Penn Station smh. 

To be fair with how empty trains to GCM are I think the current service alone could handle it.

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Is anyone scratching their head trying to figure out why LIRR refuses to go back to the old schedule and work on a better one? Literally the major point I keep hearing is "direct brooklyn service" for the past 3 weeks and there hasn't been a single change with that.

There are plenty of people who use GCM too all that would happen is you get a different group of riders complaining. 

But now having made a couple of trips from both terminals, many more adjustments need to be made. 

For one thing trains out of Penn are beyond crowded, riding the LIRR out tonight and yesterday night out of Penn, these trains were as overcrowded as rush hour trains with people standing. 

When it comes to my opinion of what could be done to help (off-peak)
For lines like Babylon, I think for the most part it's ok, it just needs to adjust the times a bit so that the Penn station trains are arriving and departing roughly every 30 min. Also going eastbound maybe the express train can be timed to come right before or hold for the local train from GCM so people can easily switch if needed. 

When it comes to Far Rockaway and Long Beach idk why they switch terminals on weekends but they should just stick to one full-time? 

Switch the Hempstead branch to a Penn line branch with Huntington trains to GCM making local stops west of Floral Park. 

For the mainline branch, I think it could help if both the Ronkonkoma and Huntington branches were retimed. When a Huntington train leaves GCM and Ronkonkoma train leaves Penn or vice versa they could meet at Jamaica. With trains holding for each other in Jamaica before departing. 

For the mainline from Jamaica westwards trains need to stop only making one stop, either all or nothing. I feel like that should apply to other sections of other lines as well. For example, when a train stopping only at Forest Hills is running late the train stopping at Kew Gardens is either forced to wait at Jamaica or the Forest Hills train gets delayed even more for being out of order. Trains should make all 3 stops between Jamaica and Manhattan or run express skipping all of them. Babylon, Huntington, and Ronkonkoma should run express to Jamaica. Far Rockaway, Long Beach, and Hempstead trains should make all stops. If needed trains could be timed so the locals are scheduled to leave a couple of mins after the express. That would also enable side-by-side running of two express trains from GCM and Penn to meet at Jamaica. Additionally back to back trains to the same destination in Manhattan need to be eliminated. There are 20 min gaps followed by 2 min gaps that don't make sense. 

With Port Washington, I'm really not sure what to do ideally this line would need to run 3 trains an hour so that Penn station trains don't get overcrowded but that would require more staff. Port Washington to GCT really only greatly benefits passengers west of Bayside. Especially since having to wait an hour for a train, it becomes easier and faster for a lot of people to just take a nearby bus and the  to GC. GCM service outside of peak hours is debatable as to how useful it is.

Excluding what I want to happen to the PW branch, this is what I think the service pattern could look like. For staggered connections at Woodside the train on the main line would be scheduled to come in a couple of mins before the PW train and the PW train would only hold an extra min or 2 if the main line train is late. (No more 10-15 min connections.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|Time| GCM   | Penn   | Notes                                     |
|----|-------|--------|-------------------------------------------|
| :00| RK    | PJ     | Hold at JAM                               |
| :05|       | HM     | Hold at JAM (Connect with WH)             |
| :10|       |        |                                           |
| :15|       | BB     | Hold at JAM (Connect with OB or MN trains)|
| :20| FR    | PW     | Staggered 3-4 min at Woodside FR -> PW    |
| :25|       |        |                                           |
| :30| PJ    | RK     | Hold at JAM                               |
| :35|       |        |                                           |
| :40|       |        |                                           |
| :45| BB    | BB(EXP)| Hold at JAM                               |
| :50| PW    | LB     | Staggered 3-4 min at Woodside LB -> PW    |
| :55|       |        |                                           |
|----|-------|--------|-------------------------------------------|
|    | 5TPH  | 7TPH   | ~ 40:60 Split                             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by IAlam

[xD4nn]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What does that have to do with the overcrowding that is happening at Penn?  That's where the majority of the complaints are coming from, so your response makes no sense. The majority of the ridership is still at Penn and that's who is circulating the petitions.  The gaps in service are extensive at times, esp. for those who had direct service and now have much longer commutes, but sure, continue slobbering on about GCT and how ridership is still increasing when trains are leaving there empty while Penn sees massive overcrowding. lol

The majority of complaints are coming from Atlantic Terminal. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else is the same as you....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, xD4nn said:

The majority of complaints are coming from Atlantic Terminal. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else is the same as you....

The majority of the riders use Penn and that's where the majority of the complaints are from, followed by Atlantic Terminal riders.  What I "like" is irrelevant. lol Most of the changes being made are for Penn riders, so I'm providing facts and you are spewing rhetoric. Just like you said ridership out of Grand Central is "increasing". What does that even mean?  No specifics.... With some trains leaving GCM empty, "increasing" could mean anything.

The complaints from Atlantic Terminal riders are mainly about the shuttle service and it being disorganized, which is a valid complaint, aside from the obvious lack of direct service which means longer trips, etc.  Penn riders are dealing with overcrowding, poorly timed connections, longer commutes and longer waits between trains, particularly if they want direct service, so it's fairly obvious to see what the issues are and who is being impacted the most.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

In regards to the changes starting later on today:

Quote

Oyster Bay Branch

The 4:56 a.m. train from Oyster Bay will no longer stop at Mineola.

It's been a while, but when I used to take that 5:33am EB train from Jamaica (which was a Ronkonkoma bound train, arriving Mineola at 5:47), I would get to see the scenario with that first train in question (from OB, due Mineola) play out across the platform.... What would happen is, it would dump off a whole platform full of people at Mineola (since it used to end at Mineola).... I used to get a kick out of seeing the next arriving Penn train literally pull up RIGHT BEHIND IT at times - as in, literally within a few feet of each other.... Most times though, that Penn train would pick those pax up no more than 5 mins. after that OB train dumped off those pax. at Mineola...

Now IDK how the situation played itself out with that first train from OB b/w February 27th & this past Friday (the first two weeks of this new LIRR plan), but now they're set to having this train run straight to Jamaica, for the cool privilege of waiting 19-20 mins. if they want GCT/Penn (respectively).... I would be absolutely livid at that....

Quote

Port Jefferson Branch

A new early-morning weekday eastbound train will depart Jamaica at 4:40 a.m., stopping at Mineola, Hicksville, Syosset, Cold Spring Harbor, and Huntington.

If I had to come in earlier than normal (which was very rarely), I used to do the B12 - Q24 to Jamaica bit (didn't want to put up with the ), which would get me to LIRR Jamaica a couple mins. after 5am.... From Jamaica, this train used to leave concurrently with a Babylon train that connected to it from Penn (which would be around 5:16/17-ish).... It would get to Mineola a little after 5:30 (which gave me more than enough time to get to work for 6)..... On average, it would be me & like 2 or 3 other people getting off.... Granted it was a 6-car train, but even if we would leave Jamaica with 30 total ppl., the train did good..... Now this is going to be a train that leaves almost 40 mins. before the fact....

There's nothing stated regarding an extra AM peak WB train leaving Huntington, so IDK what the real purpose of this 4:40 EB train's supposed to be.... Looking at the schedule, I would combine this EB 4:40am Huntington train out of Jamaica with the EB 5:32am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn & bring back that EB 5:11am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn... Or looking at it another way, not even bothering with this 4:40 train out of Jamaica & having the current 5:32 leave 20 mins. or so earlier..... That 5:11am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn is the same train arriving Jamaica at 5:33am that I referenced in the above quote, which would pull into Jamaica with a decent load on it....

[Cait Sith]

3 hours ago, xD4nn said:

The majority of complaints are coming from Atlantic Terminal. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else is the same as you....

They're coming from both Penn Station and Brooklyn riders. The media makes it all about Brooklyn.

Riders from both ends have been starting a petition to add more trains to both terminals. Some of the politicians in Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and Long Island have been pushing for restoration of service at Penn and Atlantic Terminal because of the overcrowding and delays, with some of those political figures talking about suing the MTA and the Long Island Rail Road. The transferring has been a nightmare for all three branches, as the rush hour crowds are literally unbearable, especially in the AM.

Having dealt with the AM and PM rush hour crowds after the launch of Grand Central, I've had to skip a train or two at Jamaica to get to Manhattan in the AM. Thankfully the trains run pretty often, but I've never had to skip a train or two just to get in one until now, and its pretty rough.

PMs, I've just stuck with GCT to avoid the crowds at Penn Station. I took PM Rush trains from Penn Station a few times since GCT opened for LIRR.....and its a lot worse than it was prior to GCT being a new terminal for LIRR. Thank god they made the area more spacious. I've avoided Penn Station for the PM rush hour ever since.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

23 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Putting it on scheduling with this new LIRR plan is giving the MTA a gargantuan out.... The issues (plural) with this new plan is clearly macro; one of that of planning... Of course you want people to access/utilize the new station, but the fact of the matter is that they went far too far left with shoving GCT in commuter's faces.... Everything else that happened after that (that commuters have raised valid concerns about) was/is a result of a nasty domino effect...

 

The schedules have been "tweaked" twice, yet there are still two AM westbound trains scheduled to use the same track into GC at the same time. Result: the 6:28 from Great Neck (6:54 at Woodside) is always held at least 5 minutes. Maybe just move that train 5 minutes later. 

[Far rockaway]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:12 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Because suburban riders don't want city residents riding "their" trains.

that seems cold. What I mean by cold I meant selfish.

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

In regards to the changes starting later on today:

It's been a while, but when I used to take that 5:33am EB train from Jamaica (which was a Ronkonkoma bound train, arriving Mineola at 5:47), I would get to see the scenario with that first train in question (from OB, due Mineola) play out across the platform.... What would happen is, it would dump off a whole platform full of people at Mineola (since it used to end at Mineola).... I used to get a kick out of seeing the next arriving Penn train literally pull up RIGHT BEHIND IT at times - as in, literally within a few feet of each other.... Most times though, that Penn train would pick those pax up no more than 5 mins. after that OB train dumped off those pax. at Mineola...

Now IDK how the situation played itself out with that first train from OB b/w February 27th & this past Friday (the first two weeks of this new LIRR plan), but now they're set to having this train run straight to Jamaica, for the cool privilege of waiting 19-20 mins. if they want GCT/Penn (respectively).... I would be absolutely livid at that....

If I had to come in earlier than normal (which was very rarely), I used to do the B12 - Q24 to Jamaica bit (didn't want to put up with the ), which would get me to LIRR Jamaica a couple mins. after 5am.... From Jamaica, this train used to leave concurrently with a Babylon train that connected to it from Penn (which would be around 5:16/17-ish).... It would get to Mineola a little after 5:30 (which gave me more than enough time to get to work for 6)..... On average, it would be me & like 2 or 3 other people getting off.... Granted it was a 6-car train, but even if we would leave Jamaica with 30 total ppl., the train did good..... Now this is going to be a train that leaves almost 40 mins. before the fact....

There's nothing stated regarding an extra AM peak WB train leaving Huntington, so IDK what the real purpose of this 4:40 EB train's supposed to be.... Looking at the schedule, I would combine this EB 4:40am Huntington train out of Jamaica with the EB 5:32am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn & bring back that EB 5:11am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn... Or looking at it another way, not even bothering with this 4:40 train out of Jamaica & having the current 5:32 leave 20 mins. or so earlier..... That 5:11am Ronkonkoma train out of Penn is the same train arriving Jamaica at 5:33am that I referenced in the above quote, which would pull into Jamaica with a decent load on it....

For the Oyster Bay Branch, the 6:18am and 6:19am times are arrival times to Grand Central and Penn Station respectively. (So it arrives at 5:55am and connects to a Babylon - GCT train at 5:59am, or a Huntington - Penn Station train at 6:01am...technically that train arrives at 6:20am).

In any case, I suspect it's just because there was a westbound train that stopped at 5:36am (coming from Ronkonkoma) so rather than stop at Mineola so that any early-morning riders can get to the hospital or other employment in the area, or connect to an eastbound train (e.g. the 6:07am to Mineola...or the 6:23am to Huntington with a Port Jefferson connection), they just said screw it and had the train bypass Mineola. 

For the eastbound Huntington train, I strongly suspect it's just a converted deadhead. Notice at Huntington, that train is scheduled to arrive on Platform A at 5:24am, and then a westbound train is scheduled to depart from Platform A at 5:27am. Unless they somehow shuffle those trains out super-quickly, it would make sense that it becomes the westbound train...the big question is why did they convert that particular deadhead? I'd like to think it's just a common-sense way of getting (roughly) hourly overnight service at the major stops on the Main Line, but I suspect the right person just so happened to need to travel at that time. (Also, I get that it's an electric train, but they should've published the connection from Penn Station, which is the 4:11am Penn - Babylon train)

Edited March 14, 2023 by checkmatechamp13

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

In any case, I suspect it's just because there was a westbound train that stopped at 5:36am (coming from Ronkonkoma) so rather than stop at Mineola so that any early-morning riders can get to the hospital or other employment in the area, or connect to an eastbound train (e.g. the 6:07am to Mineola...or the 6:23am to Huntington with a Port Jefferson connection), they just said screw it and had the train bypass Mineola. 

 LIRR still treats its system, despite all the positive spin they put on the new schedules as primarily a service to transport passengers from the suburbs to Manhattan. Everything else seem incidental in their view. Quite frankly I think their definition of reverse commuter is people commuting from Manhattan to Long Island, 

Screw the outer boroughs, screw inter-island ridership, screw transfers. Everything is catered towards Manhattan

 

Metro North does a MUCH better job at serving people "not going to Manhattan"

[Lex]

30 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

 LIRR still treats its system, despite all the positive spin they put on the new schedules as primarily a service to transport passengers from the suburbs to Manhattan. Everything else seem incidental in their view. Quite frankly I think their definition of reverse commuter is people commuting from Manhattan to Long Island, 

Screw the outer boroughs, screw inter-island ridership, screw transfers. Everything is catered towards Manhattan

 

Metro North does a MUCH better job at serving people "not going to Manhattan"

I think you meant to say intra-island.

To be honest, I'm not sure if I can really add anything to this conversation, as I feel like just about everything that needs to be said has been.

[darkstar8983]

What I’ve noticed is a lot of complaining despite the LIRR getting MORE Manhattan bound service. They thought that service would double (keeping existing Penn Station trains pre 2022) on top of the new grand central trains at the same frequency. Just wait until the Sandy repairs at Penn station and the tunnels starts, forcing the LIRR distribution of service to heavily favor GCM 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The schedules have been "tweaked" twice, yet there are still two AM westbound trains scheduled to use the same track into GC at the same time. Result: the 6:28 from Great Neck (6:54 at Woodside) is always held at least 5 minutes. Maybe just move that train 5 minutes later. 

 

I did some digging for specifics...

 

Train #1413 (from Great Neck 6:28, due GC 7:05) usually gets to Woodside on time at 6:54AM, yet is held every day for about 5 minutes so that train #1611 (from Huntington 5:54, due GC 7:02) can access the GC portal first. 

 

LIRR could do one of two obvious things. . . .

Operate train #1611 on time — gasp! — so that train #1413 doesn't have to be held, or... 

 Schedule train #1413 a few minutes later so that it doesn't have to be held. 

 

Of course, the crews like to arrive late so they can collect more overtime, but that doesn't help the passengers.

[xD4nn]

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I did some digging for specifics...

 

Train #1413 (from Great Neck 6:28, due GC 7:05) usually gets to Woodside on time at 6:54AM, yet is held every day for about 5 minutes so that train #1611 (from Huntington 5:54, due GC 7:02) can access the GC portal first. 

 

LIRR could do one of two obvious things. . . .

Operate train #1611 on time — gasp! — so that train #1413 doesn't have to be held, or... 

 Schedule train #1413 a few minutes later so that it doesn't have to be held. 

 

Of course, the crews like to arrive late so they can collect more overtime, but that doesn't help the passengers.

I don't know where you got that crews like to arrive late. Overtime is collected based on how many extra jobs you work. You won't get paid overtime for being late... 

[xD4nn]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:45 AM, Mtatransit said:

 LIRR still treats its system, despite all the positive spin they put on the new schedules as primarily a service to transport passengers from the suburbs to Manhattan. Everything else seem incidental in their view. Quite frankly I think their definition of reverse commuter is people commuting from Manhattan to Long Island, 

Screw the outer boroughs, screw inter-island ridership, screw transfers. Everything is catered towards Manhattan

 

Metro North does a MUCH better job at serving people "not going to Manhattan"

Maybe because its a commuter railroad and most people go to Manhattan??

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:45 AM, Mtatransit said:

 LIRR still treats its system, despite all the positive spin they put on the new schedules as primarily a service to transport passengers from the suburbs to Manhattan. Everything else seem incidental in their view. Quite frankly I think their definition of reverse commuter is people commuting from Manhattan to Long Island, 

Screw the outer boroughs, screw inter-island ridership, screw transfers. Everything is catered towards Manhattan

 

Metro North does a MUCH better job at serving people "not going to Manhattan"

Oh please. Metro-North has a similar attitude and their focus is on serving the suburbs and monied areas of the City that take Metro-North.  It's a commuter railroad, not a subway and yes the focus is on riders going to Manhattan. What a insane idea.  

[checkmatechamp13]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:45 AM, Mtatransit said:

 LIRR still treats its system, despite all the positive spin they put on the new schedules as primarily a service to transport passengers from the suburbs to Manhattan. Everything else seem incidental in their view. Quite frankly I think their definition of reverse commuter is people commuting from Manhattan to Long Island, 

Screw the outer boroughs, screw inter-island ridership, screw transfers. Everything is catered towards Manhattan

Metro North does a MUCH better job at serving people "not going to Manhattan"

I mean that is the definition of a reverse commuter...a traditional commuter goes from the suburbs to Manhattan in the morning, and from Manhattan to the suburbs in the afternoon.

That being said, I think we agree that all classes of commuter should receive decent service. That includes peak, reverse-peak, off-peak, intra-island, and intra-NYC. I get that with limited infrastructure and limited resources, you can't serve everybody to the precise extent that they necessarily should (e.g. single-track areas), but no one group should be completely shafted.

That being said, while somewhat better, Metro-North still has issues with random stopping patterns making intra-suburban trips difficult. (There is definitely a need for express service, but it should be consistent, similar to the Babylon Branch local/express split at Wantagh, where intra-island riders can transfer). 

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Of course, the crews like to arrive late so they can collect more overtime, but that doesn't help the passengers.

It depends on which part of their shift they arrive late in. If it's at the end of their shift (and there's no "boost" built in to get them to the minimum 8 hours) then yes, they will get overtime, but if it's in the middle of their shift, they'll just have a shorter break before their next trip.

1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

Maybe because its a commuter railroad and most people go to Manhattan??

Most of the people go to Manhattan because the service patterns are oriented around getting people to Manhattan. You don't estimate the need for a bridge based on the amount of people swimming across the river.

I mean look at the Ronkonkoma Branch schedule. Mineola is one of the largest (if not the largest) job centers on the island, and there's a whole bunch of trains in a row that bypass Mineola and don't even stop at Hicksville for a cross-platform transfer. (After the 5:06am from Ronkonkoma, the next train that stops at Hicksville is the 6:29am, and the next train that actually stops at Mineola is the 6:50am). We have trains that kick people out at Jamaica and deadhead to Hunterspoint Avenue/LIC for a peak direction trip, rather than letting the passengers ride. We have a 37 minute gap to the busiest station in Suffolk County in the middle of the PM rush hour, which affects both intra-island riders and those coming from NYC.

36 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh please. Metro-North has a similar attitude and their focus is on serving the suburbs and monied areas of the City that take Metro-North.  It's a commuter railroad, not a subway and yes the focus is on riders going to Manhattan. What a insane idea.  

And when most Manhattan workers are working remote/hybrid schedules, and ridership is still way below pre-COVID levels, we can all scratch our heads and wonder why that is.

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I mean that is the definition of a reverse commuter...a traditional commuter goes from the suburbs to Manhattan in the morning, and from Manhattan to the suburbs in the afternoon.

That being said, I think we agree that all classes of commuter should receive decent service. That includes peak, reverse-peak, off-peak, intra-island, and intra-NYC. I get that with limited infrastructure and limited resources, you can't serve everybody to the precise extent that they necessarily should (e.g. single-track areas), but no one group should be completely shafted.

That being said, while somewhat better, Metro-North still has issues with random stopping patterns making intra-suburban trips difficult. (There is definitely a need for express service, but it should be consistent, similar to the Babylon Branch local/express split at Wantagh, where intra-island riders can transfer). 

It depends on which part of their shift they arrive late in. If it's at the end of their shift (and there's no "boost" built in to get them to the minimum 8 hours) then yes, they will get overtime, but if it's in the middle of their shift, they'll just have a shorter break before their next trip.

Most of the people go to Manhattan because the service patterns are oriented around getting people to Manhattan. You don't estimate the need for a bridge based on the amount of people swimming across the river.

I mean look at the Ronkonkoma Branch schedule. Mineola is one of the largest (if not the largest) job centers on the island, and there's a whole bunch of trains in a row that bypass Mineola and don't even stop at Hicksville for a cross-platform transfer. (After the 5:06am from Ronkonkoma, the next train that stops at Hicksville is the 6:29am, and the next train that actually stops at Mineola is the 6:50am). We have trains that kick people out at Jamaica and deadhead to Hunterspoint Avenue/LIC for a peak direction trip, rather than letting the passengers ride. We have a 37 minute gap to the busiest station in Suffolk County in the middle of the PM rush hour, which affects both intra-island riders and those coming from NYC.

And when most Manhattan workers are working remote/hybrid schedules, and ridership is still way below pre-COVID levels, we can all scratch our heads and wonder why that is.

Where, exactly, is the busiest railroad station in Suffolk County ? I’ve been traveling out there since 1981 and in my experience Babylon and Ronkonkoma have always been the top priority. Mineola and the surrounding area do have many different workplaces in Nassau but so does the strip in Melville in Suffolk along Broadhollow Road from Huntington southward towards Sunrise Highway. Is there actually that large a gap eastward towards the terminals on either the Babylon or KO branch ? Just curious. Carry on.

[Jsunflyguy]

9 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I did some digging for specifics...

 

 

 

Of course, the crews like to arrive late so they can collect more overtime, but that doesn't help the passengers.

Ah yes, the very specific baseless speculation. 1611 and 1413 are operated by AM crews, so they don't even stand to make overtime. And good luck getting a 3 minute overtime claim paid. 

1611 is always late because Jamaica is scheduled for 1 minute dwell times instead of the traditional 2, so the surplus time stacks until it spills over and forces track changes...causing more delays. Couple that with the 1-stop local policy and you have trains that stay in conflict for a long time. Usually the first ripple is as early as 6am by the time 1611 is rolling through, it's averaging 5 minutes which is just enough time for every train to start bumping into the next one. Which is basically irrecoverable due to the feedback loops.

[Lex]

41 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

Ah yes, the very specific baseless speculation. 1611 and 1413 are operated by AM crews, so they don't even stand to make overtime. And good luck getting a 3 minute overtime claim paid. 

1611 is always late because Jamaica is scheduled for 1 minute dwell times instead of the traditional 2, so the surplus time stacks until it spills over and forces track changes...causing more delays. Couple that with the 1-stop local policy and you have trains that stay in conflict for a long time. Usually the first ripple is as early as 6am by the time 1611 is rolling through, it's averaging 5 minutes which is just enough time for every train to start bumping into the next one. Which is basically irrecoverable due to the feedback loops.

What a mess.

Whose bright idea was it to have trains stop at one local station while skipping the other two, anyway? (Granted, I always pegged it as an idea that involved someone sticking their head up their sandy ass, but I wasn't expecting it to be this bad...)

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Jsunflyguy said:

 1611 and 1413 are operated by AM crews, so they don't even stand to make overtime. And good luck getting a 3 minute overtime claim paid. 
 

So only PM crews get paid extra overtime when the train is late?