Oldest MTA New York City Transit Subway Cars Getting Their Final Makeover

[Guest Lance]

I knew I forgot something...

 

Another fact some of you guys have to face: not everyone is going to feel the same nostalgia that you do. You also have to realize the cars are quite old and therefore not as reliable as the newer ones. Yes, the 32s are approaching 50 years of service. Yes, that's quite an achievement. However, their age still shows under all that stainless steel. They have one of the lowest MDBFs in the system, with only the 42s as the bottom of the barrel. Sometimes, you have to face the reality of the situation. The cars were great. The cars were good. Now, they're just meh. Don't like it? Tough. But, like I said before, it's what we got and we're stuck with it until the new cars arrive, so it is what it is.

[Art Vandelay]

To say that the reliability of the (R32/R46 pick whatever you are complaining about) is anything but exemplary is misguided. That a fleet can be so reliable and be at the bottom of the fleet when ranked says a lot about the state of our fleet overall. If you put the R32s or R46s in any other city, they would be the top of the fleet by leaps and bounds. Even the R42s, while not great, can't really be described as terrible in any context outside of the balance of the NYCT fleet.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To say that the reliability of the (R32/R46 pick whatever you are complaining about) is anything but exemplary is misguided. That a fleet can be so reliable and be at the bottom of the fleet when ranked says a lot about the state of our fleet overall. If you put the R32s or R46s in any other city, they would be the top of the fleet by leaps and bounds. Even the R42s, while not great, can't really be described as terrible in any context outside of the balance of the NYCT fleet.

 

 

lol... This is NYC... We expect only the best... The same goes for our transit system and subway cars.

[Eric B]

And add some black stripes too eh ?

 

Well atleast the work train will be getting an upgrade .

 

I said yellow stain, which is clear paint that would allow the metallic luster of the stainless steel to shine through, so it wouldn't look anything like a work car paint job.

[lilbluefoxie]

To say that the reliability of the (R32/R46 pick whatever you are complaining about) is anything but exemplary is misguided. That a fleet can be so reliable and be at the bottom of the fleet when ranked says a lot about the state of our fleet overall. If you put the R32s or R46s in any other city, they would be the top of the fleet by leaps and bounds. Even the R42s, while not great, can't really be described as terrible in any context outside of the balance of the NYCT fleet.

 

 

you are going to compare those old relics to more modern subway trains in Boston, San Francisco, and Washington. Those R42s can't be described as terrible if you are a foamer, but to more sensible railroaders its time for them to go already. If New york is going to maintain its status as a top city in America it starts with modernizing the infrastructure.

[Art Vandelay]

22-24 years is not particularly old...

MBTA and BART both have older fleets than NYCT overall IINM.

WMATA's fleet although certainly newer overall, is in horrendous condition, and performs terribly. I do not believe that a less safe car than the WMATA 1000 series has been made in the last century in the United States.

[lilbluefoxie]

22-24 years is not particularly old...

MBTA and BART both have older fleets than NYCT overall IINM.

WMATA's fleet although certainly newer overall, is in horrendous condition, and performs terribly. I do not believe that a less safe car than the WMATA 1000 series has been made in the last century in the United States.

 

 

the oldest Boston cars on heavy rail (not including the green line and mattapan-ashmont) are from '68, the 1500's on the red line. The newest cars are from 2007 on the blue line. BART's fleet is from the 70s and 80s, still younger than the 32s.

 

BART ive actually ridden, the cars are much brighter and nicer inside than the uncomfortable hard benches on the 32s.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

the oldest Boston cars on heavy rail (not including the green line and mattapan-ashmont) are from '68, the 1500's on the red line. The newest cars are from 2007 on the blue line. BART's fleet is from the 70s and 80s, still younger than the 32s.

 

BART ive actually ridden, the cars are much brighter and nicer inside than the uncomfortable hard benches on the 32s.

 

 

That's the thing... We've both used subways outside of NYC so we know what we're talking about. Most of the subway cars are much nicer and newer when comparing them to the R32s...

[R32 Anthony]

I am glad that the MTA is taking care of the R32's. They are the last classic, non door bell cars we have (except for a few R42's still in service.) I hope they do not put those annoying doorbells on the R32's. They did that in Chicago on the 2400's and 2600's El Cars. Long live the R32's. Wish they would come back on the

line.

[lilbluefoxie]

That's the thing... We've both used subways outside of NYC so we know what we're talking about. Most of the subway cars are much nicer and newer when comparing them to the R32s...

 

 

I've been on a few metro systems outside of New York: Montreal, Boston, Washington, and both MUNI and BART in San Francisco. No other city has stations that look as dirty and run down as many of the NYC Subway stations. The line stations are an embarassment to the city, even ones like Times Square have peeling paint and columns with leaking water. Montreal has the nicest looking system out of them, each station has its own different, modern design, and the trains had digital announcements and screens back in the mid 90s when I went there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've been on a few metro systems outside of New York: Montreal, Boston, Washington, and both MUNI and BART in San Francisco. No other city has stations that look as dirty and run down as many of the NYC Subway stations. The line stations are an embarassment to the city, even ones like Times Square have peeling paint and columns with leaking water. Montreal has the nicest looking system out of them, each station has its own different, modern design, and the trains had digital announcements and screens back in the mid 90s when I went there.

 

 

I agree... I know I know.. everyone is going to say that those cities have smaller subway systems.... Such a lame excuse... That said if these folks traveled around like we have they would understand our point of view. IMO with the amount of money that the has to spend we could have much nicer subway cars and stations.

 

I used to go to Montréal a lot.... Very clean city and yes.... The transportation there is good, efficient and clean overall.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Couldn't have said it any better myself...

[lilbluefoxie]

I agree... I know I know.. everyone is going to say that those cities have smaller subway systems.... Such a lame excuse... That said if these folks traveled around like we have they would understand our point of view. IMO with the amount of money that the has to spend we could have much nicer subway cars and stations.

 

I used to go to Montréal a lot.... Very clean city and yes.... The transportation there is good, efficient and clean overall.

 

Whats sad is how long it takes the to redo anything, if someone went with a scraper a paint roller and a few buckets of paint they would make the line in Brooklyn soo much better and it wouldn't cost a whole lot either to do so.

 

I want to visit Montreal again someday, its such a wonderful place and their Metro makes is very easy to get around anywhere, the only part that requires a bit of a walk is to get to the old city (Vieux something or other, I forget. I know it started with vieux, the french word for old)

[West End]

The R32's are an embarassment to the MTA. I understand the need to maintain them and keep them around until the R179s come into play, but wanting them to stay in service is like wanting to drive around an old Buick that needs more than just a paint job. Sure, the air conditioner works. Sure, it runs better than Henry Ford's Model-T car did. But what about the car's gas mileage? What about that muffler that keeps falling off? And why does it have an 8-track player? Even though it'd eventually get them from Point A to Point B, most New Yorkers wouldn't be caught dead driving a car like this if they had the option. Same goes for the R32s.

 

And please avoid the "other cities would be lucky to have a fleet like the R32s" argument. Cities comparable to the influence NY has on the world have fleets that generally blow us out of the water. Let me know when you're able to set your watch to the time your train arrives in the morning (Tokyo).

[Grand Concourse]

$25 mil for I assume the remaining fleet is a hell of a lot cheaper than $25 mil for 25 cars. So you may not like it, but the MTA isn't made of money and if it means keeping fairly ok cars running for a fraction of the cost it would be for a small fleet, it's worth it. You are free to take another subway line if you detest a train so much. At the end of the day if the train gets me to point b, I don't care what train it is.

[junjun798]

Not everyone is a fan of the older trains. I'm alright with that, as long as they have a legitimate reason, and not just on the basis that it's old.

 

Now, when people start bad-mouthing the R62 and R62A... that's a real problem... lol.

 

Lol Very True

[junjun798]

The R32's are an embarassment to the MTA. I understand the need to maintain them and keep them around until the R179s come into play, but wanting them to stay in service is like wanting to drive around an old Buick that needs more than just a paint job. Sure, the air conditioner works. Sure, it runs better than Henry Ford's Model-T car did. But what about the car's gas mileage? What about that muffler that keeps falling off? And why does it have an 8-track player? Even though it'd eventually get them from Point A to Point B, most New Yorkers wouldn't be caught dead driving a car like this if they had the option. Same goes for the R32s.

 

And please avoid the "other cities would be lucky to have a fleet like the R32s" argument. Cities comparable to the influence NY has on the world have fleets that generally blow us out of the water. Let me know when you're able to set your watch to the time your train arrives in the morning (Tokyo).

 

R32s are not an embarrasment they are one of the best cars to run for the system but dont bash em they are 49yrs old.The last time they had a huge rehab was in 1987-1990 when they were getting rebuilt so it makes sense that they break down and on top of that look at their age. And they run much better then an R46.They are very reliable and this sms will help the cars out more.

[Fresh Pond]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to go through your posts about the R32s and gave out my answers somewhat roughly so please excuse me for a moment...

 

IiIbluefoxie and Via Garibaldi 8, you guys really sound as if you're just regular random customers who ride public transit...

 

First off, do you guys even KNOW why the remaining 222 R32s and 48 R42s are still running in service? New York City Subway's R44s which died at 39th year of age back in 2010 due to their malfunctional and frame rusting issues should answer your questions...Don't sit back and say "Oh I don't give **** if the MTA is forced to keep cars past their regular ending lives". You guys know the damn drill....

 

You are just saying that just to justify your disliking of these older trains...You and VG8 DAMN well know why they're still here running past the average service life...

 

Remember how one of you said that the R32s are "junky cars" and the other said that they're so "dull, depressing, dark, and outdated" and need to go? These seem like regular complaints to me. Don't even deny that because you know that's true. Seriously, if you guys are just going to sit here and going off like no tommorrow about "OH BUT THE R32 SUCKS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO RETIRE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wacko:", then why in the mother of god do you care about posting on threads that have ANYTHING to do with things you don't like?.........

 

Trains are trains, deal with it.. Don't always expect a new subway car to make EVERYTHING popular rather than caring for what they are FIRST! I don't give a flying cent of why you hate the older trains...You know why they are still here. The R179s were originally an order of 420 75 footer subway cars enough to retire the R44s on the , RPS , and SIR but as the R44s' frame rusting rolled in, the didn't have a choice nor they didn't HAVE enough money to save those cars. Plus, the R44s on the Staten Island Railway are ALSO running past the average service life span. The remaining R44s are now 41 years old and thus will end up retiring when both the R179s and R211s are delivered. Don't act as if you guys are always right and then run off your mouths about why they are so dull and dark.

 

I could hardly care about anything that's popular. Last time I checked, they're aren't any new trains running on the and the three 's. Riders certainly do want to see new trains on their line too but do you even have enough money to fork up that and retire all old trains one by one that fast? NO.

 

I am so tired of you guys saying the same crap all over again. All I'm seeing from you two are just "Oh, had not been the R44's issues then those R32s would have already been put in the grave to rest in peace!!!" and so on and on. Come up with facts of why old things are forced to be kept instead of just rushing and saying that they're just old and whatever...

 

Stop acting as if you guys are just customers and not railfans like we are...Don't even kid yourselves neither...

 

 

Hmmm, that's pretty much the ONLY reason why those cars are still around

 

No need to write a whole sppech about it, its not that serious

[R32 3838]

why can't we just enjoy the damn trains while they are still here, its a Train that runs on rails, they are not that much in bad, shape, if that was the case the would have ordered More R160's, just enjoy em, its annoying when people say oh these cars need to go, it shows how people are, in other cites, their systems are much newer than ours, Boston is older than our system, but if the R32's are that much of a problem, get a f**king car

[R32 3838]

Spare me... These R32s should've been retired already and it's a disgrace that they're still around. As I said before the has been ranked the worst line for some time now and it's because of these R32s... Unreliable service. If they can't provide reliable service then they're useless.

 

 

 

 

Yeah well we don't like them and that's the problem. You guys love R32s and the majority of the riding public doesn't, so deal with it.

 

 

oh shut the f**k up, if you don't like it get a damn car, you sound like a rich woman on her period

[junjun798]

why can't we just enjoy the damn trains while they are still here, its a Train that runs on rails, they are not that much in bad, shape, if that was the case the would have ordered More R160's, just enjoy em, its annoying when people say oh these cars need to go, it shows how people are, in other cites, their systems are much newer than ours, Boston is older than our system, but if the R32's are that much of a problem, get a f**king car

 

I agree with u on this one

[lilbluefoxie]

but if the R32's are that much of a problem, get a f**king car

 

 

I have a car

[DanTheTransitMan]

why can't we just enjoy the damn trains while they are still here, its a Train that runs on rails, they are not that much in bad, shape, if that was the case the would have ordered More R160's, just enjoy em, its annoying when people say oh these cars need to go, it shows how people are, in other cites, their systems are much newer than ours, Boston is older than our system, but if the R32's are that much of a problem, get a f**king car

 

 

Wow a train that runs on rails. Didn't know they had those...

 

 

 

oh shut the f**k up, if you don't like it get a damn car, you sound like a rich woman on her period

 

 

On a serious note. Let's face facts the R32 should have been scrapped awhile ago. True they get you from point A to B, but you have to take some issues into account. 1). R32 will brake down a lot; this does really take a toll on you as commuter. Everyone wants to get from destination A to B, but only if it is in a safe and efficient manner. R32s' just can't fit that role anymore. 2) None of the R32s have a reliable P/A system. This has the potential to hurt productivity. So let's say for a example there is a G/O going on and the conductor announces that the train will now be running on the express track; the people didn't hear the announcement because the P/A system is messed up, they miss their stop, and hold the train crew up at the next stop because they are wondering what is going on. This can and has caused very minor back ups in the past.

Face it we need new cars. I'll be glad when they get rid of the bloody trains already

[mark1447]

 

 

I've been on a few metro systems outside of New York: Montreal, Boston, Washington, and both MUNI and BART in San Francisco. No other city has stations that look as dirty and run down as many of the NYC Subway stations. The line stations are an embarassment to the city, even ones like Times Square have peeling paint and columns with leaking water. Montreal has the nicest looking system out of them, each station has its own different, modern design, and the trains had digital announcements and screens back in the mid 90s when I went there.

 

 

I agree! Even with all these renovation done, the whole System is still looking like a mess. South Ferry Terminal.... OPENED March 2009, and its becoming a MESS itself. Imagine the freaking SAS/(7) extension...

 

SEPTA or even WMATA doesn't even look like the . Hey even Baltimore own Metro.

 

And i did you say Sea Beach Line??? Don't get me started with that line. Sh9t lookin like it was built during the Flintstones time..............

 

why can't we just enjoy the damn trains while they are still here, its a Train that runs on rails, they are not that much in bad, shape, if that was the case the would have ordered More R160's, just enjoy em, its annoying when people say oh these cars need to go, it shows how people are, in other cites, their systems are much newer than ours, Boston is older than our system, but if the R32's are that much of a problem, get a f**king car

 

 

This is in a RAILFANS view for enjoyment, Not the public. All I can say is everyone who hates or like them and are arguing all the time about them should just STFU, and just enjoy what you have. When its time for these cars to die, they just got to die. We need to keep our system Up-to-date, regardless of what car runs best or not. The public is who wants the new. Its not about us buffs. This is why the is even ranked worst, because its stuck with the oldest. The R32 maybe reliable, but they are not the only ones to be. I remember hearing the R160s were doing well. It may not outlast the 32s, but surely its doing fine atm.

 

R32s are not an embarrasment they are one of the best cars to run for the system but dont bash em they are 49yrs old.The last time they had a huge rehab was in 1987-1990 when they were getting rebuilt so it makes sense that they break down and on top of that look at their age. And they run much better then an R46.They are very reliable and this sms will help the cars out more.

 

 

Again, thats a Railfans view..... Not everyone in this city is a railfan. And you have got to understand that we need to be up-to-date. As much as I love the old, we JUST got to move on.

 

 

As matter of fact, I can't wait for the old to go....... I wanna see how most of these drama filled railfans will react. Once this system goes NTT.... *cue*losing horn*cue*

[NYCRailfan523]

In 2014 they already will be 30 years old amd barring any serious build, will need replacement in the near future.

 

It's better if they reached their golden anniversary. I agree with other people here too: the R32s have better AC.