news Q train service modification beginning December 2014

[46Dover]

You forgot the which also has late night express service.

Not really. is express in Queens, but I was more or less thinking about Manhattan express service at night

[RtrainBlues]

Perhaps the MTA would like to know of the "real world" 56 minute wait time to go from 8th St to Bay Ridge at 2am since they cannot run the R train 24/7.  This past Friday:

 

- Waited 38 minutes at 8th St for a Brooklyn-bound N which didn't arrive until 2:36am

- Got to 59th St Bklyn and just missed a single-track R shuttle at 3:10am

- Next single-track R shuttle departed at 3:28am (another 18 minute wait)

- As an aside, there was another N directly behind the first severely delayed N, so that the first N then ran express from 59th St to Kings Hwy

 

Should not take 56 minutes to wait for a train at that hour.  The R definitely needs to run 24/7.  All you're doing is angering the Q train passengers at this hour without helping anyone who needs Queens or Brooklyn R service. 

[RtrainBlues]

As an aside, the 36th-95th R shuttle is still quite bad, but at least there you can connect to it with the D or N train (when the N has severe delays), so it tends to run closer to on-schedule.  The 59th-95th R single-track shuttle is the absolute worst and it usually way off-schedule, since you are at the mercy of the severely delayed N train, and then the shuttle gets delayed due to its having to proceed much more slowly in the 95th St-direction on the Manhattan-bound tracks.

[realizm]

No, you need to learn how to do math. At 20 minute headways, the AVERAGE wait is 10 minutes. Lets say two people are waiting for a train - one of them just missed the last train and has to wait the full 20 minutes, the other one is running into the station just as the train is arriving, screaming WHOOOOOL DA DORRRRR. 0 minutes + 20 minutes = 20 divided by 2 is 10. 10 minute average wait. Not EVERYBODY who swipes into a subway station at night just missed the last train - nobody ever remembers when the train comes right away, but never forget that full 20 minute wait.

Makes sense to me.

 

But what some are saying is that regardless even though on paper that yes (20 min/2 (turnaround @ 95th) = 10 min waits) is spot on, this doesnt happen in practice many times hence the longer then 10 minute waits. I've seen it for myself.

[realizm]

No bias at all... I've often wondered if for example when workers call out sick are they simply not replaced, similar to what occurs with buses?  Not replacing workers that call out sick was/is a strategy that the admitted to doing a few years ago, but they weren't admitting it until it was reported.  It was their way of "cutting costs" without noting these "savings" officially.

From my experiences it can be due to yard moves involving garbage trains or work trains or passenger trains on lay ups between 36th and 59th as one of the express tracks are used for layups. (The other one is vacant for the to allow for access to the switches to make the turnaround @ 36th.)

 

As for train crews calling in sick, I dont know so cant really say about that one. NYC Transit vs surface transit operations are two different operations with supervision handled differently. So I cant say if that is a factor in itself.

 

During normal hours the is on point with on time arrivals on the Brooklyn end otherwise even on rush hours.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As an aside, the 36th-95th R shuttle is still quite bad, but at least there you can connect to it with the D or N train (when the N has severe delays), so it tends to run closer to on-schedule.  The 59th-95th R single-track shuttle is the absolute worst and it usually way off-schedule, since you are at the mercy of the severely delayed N train, and then the shuttle gets delayed due to its having to proceed much more slowly in the 95th St-direction on the Manhattan-bound tracks.

 

 

Perhaps the MTA would like to know of the "real world" 56 minute wait time to go from 8th St to Bay Ridge at 2am since they cannot run the R train 24/7.  This past Friday:

 

- Waited 38 minutes at 8th St for a Brooklyn-bound N which didn't arrive until 2:36am

- Got to 59th St Bklyn and just missed a single-track R shuttle at 3:10am

- Next single-track R shuttle departed at 3:28am (another 18 minute wait)

- As an aside, there was another N directly behind the first severely delayed N, so that the first N then ran express from 59th St to Kings Hwy

 

Should not take 56 minutes to wait for a train at that hour.  The R definitely needs to run 24/7.  All you're doing is angering the Q train passengers at this hour without helping anyone who needs Queens or Brooklyn R service. 

That can't possibly be because you know those schedules that everyone keeps talking about are so "reliable" and accurate... What irritates me is how these folks act as if we're crazy when we're the ones that take these trains on a regular basis.  The is not going to come out and openly state problems that they may have making schedules unless it's brought up by someone and they're forced to acknowledge these problems.  I think part of the problem is the lax attitude that management has ensuring that trains run on a timely basis.  When it comes time to look for accountability, no one seems to know anything.

[RollOver]

The R definitely needs to run 24/7.  All you're doing is angering the Q train passengers at this hour without helping anyone who needs Queens or Brooklyn R service. 

 

It's not like the walk from the to the takes forever or anything...Once again, the will not spend alot of money for a small amount of passengers...

 

If you need a local stop on the 4th Avenue line (north of 59th), then take the ...The only issues I see is that, according to realizm and VG8, part-time service is prone to irregularly given the length of its route and sharing/interacting with three other lines along its run, including the night-time shuttle due to the aforementioned issues...

[Trainmaster5]

FWIW contrary to what some people have stated the , like the , and the should make local stops in Manhattan for the benefit of outer borough riders. One of the worst feelings for a late night rider at, say 23rd St at 2 am, is to watch his/her train to Brooklyn or uptown whiz by on the express track while he/she waits on the local train to make that connection. It may benefit a Manhattan resident, too, but it's a greater benefit to someone going to another borough. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[traingoat]

The problem is the BMT has been cut back drastically at all hours. 40 years ago they had the west end, seabeach and brighton expresses and brighton and 4th Ave locals servicing those tracks and you had express service at all hours and fairly good local service even at 2AM. Now because running IND service on the side lines you effectively cut everything in service on this line. When the Brighton local goes then service to Astoria goes down the tubes. For all practical purposes the Broadway BMT line is underutilized and the result is poor service.

[Wallyhorse]

FWIW contrary to what some people have stated the , like the , and the should make local stops in Manhattan for the benefit of outer borough riders. One of the worst feelings for a late night rider at, say 23rd St at 2 am, is to watch his/her train to Brooklyn or uptown whiz by on the express track while he/she waits on the local train to make that connection. It may benefit a Manhattan resident, too, but it's a greater benefit to someone going to another borough. Just my opinion. Carry on.

That is a good point.  Especially late at night, it's not the worst idea to have those lines run local to increase service and reduce transfers for all riders.  Sure, it would be nice to have an express, but it may be better overall in this case. 

 

As for the , I understand the Queens Boulevard issue, but I suspect you would be more likely to see the be the train that goes to 71st-Continental 24/7 once the new buildings at what was the Domino Sugar facility in Williamsburg is complete since demand for trains along that part of the by then might be enough to extend the past Essex in Manhattan at all times and if so, also extend it to 71-Continental.  I'd also be considering going back to having the operate late nights only to 71-Continental for those riders in Queens specifically looking for Brooklyn, especially when the is out (since normally if you're at 74-Roosevelt you can take the to Court Square and get the there). 

[CenSin]

but I suspect you would be more likely to see the be the train that goes to 71st-Continental 24/7 once the new buildings at what was the Domino Sugar facility in Williamsburg is complete since demand for trains along that part of the by then might be enough to extend the past Essex in Manhattan at all times and if so, also extend it to 71-Continental.

So, what makes your suspicions weigh down like a lead anvil? Demand for train in Williamsburg does not mean demand for trains that run all the way to Queens.

[Far Rock Depot]

I'm not surprised at this move. Like it was mentioned already, the 2was made local overnights, the 6 was extended to its full route and the A replaces the C. I can easily assume that the D won't be made local on 6th ave due to since it only skips 2 stops (23rd and 14th).

 

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Daniel The Cool]

I'm not surprised at this move. Like it was mentioned already, the 2was made local overnights, the 6 was extended to its full route and the A replaces the C. I can easily assume that the D won't be made local on 6th ave due to since it only skips 2 stops (23rd and 14th). Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

Yeah that probably won't happen. It's only 2 stops on 6th Avenue

[traingoat]

The whole problem is a total lack of money on MTA part. For all purposes they are at the point of cutting nickles and dimes at this point and this will only get worse as time goes on.

[realizm]

Time for the MTA to open up the books! We need to know....

[IRT Bronx Express]

Lexington Ave lost overnight express in 1979.

7th Ave from 1999 to 2008.

The 6th Ave corridor isn't really "express" IMO.

No idea about the 8th Ave line south of 59th St; not really "express" as well.

 

Overnight express will become non-existent one day.

[traingoat]

You cut service that dramatically that it has to go local.

[bobtehpanda]

at what was the Domino Sugar facility in Williamsburg

 

Why exactly do you have this thing about over-hyping the impact of individual construction projects?

[ACEVE14]

Lexington Ave lost overnight express in 1979.

7th Ave from 1999 to 2008.

The 6th Ave corridor isn't really "express" IMO.

No idea about the 8th Ave line south of 59th St; not really "express" as well.

 

Overnight express will become non-existent one day.

 

- Extend late night service to Bowling Green (express in Manhattan), and weekday evening/all weekend service to Flatbush Av. Problem solved.

- There's hardly any express service on the line lately. I would probably extend the late night shuttle train to either 14th or Chambers Sts.

- 47th-50th, 42nd, 34th, W 4th, and Broadway-Lafayette Sts all have island platforms. DUH!

- The skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, stops at an express stop, skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, stops at an express stop, skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, and stops at an express stop. Do you see a pattern there? 

[Wallyhorse]

Why exactly do you have this thing about over-hyping the impact of individual construction projects?

Simply pointing out they could have a serious impact.

 

My point was, the is more likely than the to be 24/7 to 71-Continental because of it.

[RollOver]

Simply pointing out they could have a serious impact.

 

My point was, the is more likely than the to be 24/7 to 71-Continental because of it.

 

Oh please...

[RollOver]

- Extend late night service to Bowling Green (express in Manhattan), and weekday evening/all weekend service to Flatbush Av. Problem solved.

- There's hardly any express service on the line lately. I would probably extend the late night shuttle train to either 14th or Chambers Sts.

- 47th-50th, 42nd, 34th, W 4th, and Broadway-Lafayette Sts all have island platforms. DUH!

- The skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, stops at an express stop, skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, stops at an express stop, skips a local stop, stops at an express stop, and stops at an express stop. Do you see a pattern there? 

 

Why do you want night-time express service on the aforementioned lines for?

[Lance]

Simply pointing out they could have a serious impact.

 

My point was, the is more likely than the to be 24/7 to 71-Continental because of it.

If the money ever did materialize to extend one of the shuttles to full length, the R would easily be the better candidate over the M. Queens Blvd already has a 6th Avenue line serving it during the midnight hours, albeit express instead of local. Riders looking for Broadway have to transfer to the N or Q from the E at 42 St via the passageway or from the F at 34 St.

[CenSin]

If the money ever did materialize to extend one of the shuttles to full length, the R would easily be the better candidate over the M. Queens Blvd already has a 6th Avenue line serving it during the midnight hours, albeit express instead of local. Riders looking for Broadway have to transfer to the N or Q from the E at 42 St via the passageway or from the F at 34 St.

This is a great example — I hope you are taking notes — of logical reasoning and making an educated guess by examining other related problems such as the late night Broadway service deficiency on the Queens Boulevard line. This is in direct contrast to basing x (where x ≥ 2) service changes on problems that: don't exist; are tiny in scope to other problems; or solving would cause greater problems than the original problem(s) it solved.

 

Some common problematic "solutions" to problems and retorts:

• There is no X (where X is anything from to , to , or ) service at/along y (where y is a station, series of stations, or line), so let's put — oh, let's say this line I've been romantically involved with — a there.

   

  The MTA's money problems are significantly greater than the lack of a certain service for passengers.

  The new service introduces significant delays to other services or operational difficulties.

  The new service takes away from other — more useful — services.

  The service is redundant (because it pretty much goes to the same place).

  The solution is an answer to a nonexistent problem.

• The X service should be rerouted to the y line (where y is any line such as the Canarsie line).

   

  The MTA's money problems prohibit the new service pattern because it would be more expensive relative to less significant passenger needs.

  The new service pattern introduces significant delays to other services or operational difficulties.

  The new service pattern takes away from other — more useful — service patterns.

  The service is redundant (because it pretty much goes to the same place).

  The solution is an answer to a nonexistent problem.

• The X service should run express along the y line (where y is any line such as the Jamaica line).

   

  The MTA's money problems prohibit the new service pattern because it would be more expensive relative to less significant passenger needs.

  The new service pattern introduces significant delays to other services or operational difficulties.

  The new service pattern takes away from other — more useful — service patterns.

  The service is redundant (because it pretty much goes to the same place).

  The solution is an answer to a nonexistent problem.

• The X service should run more frequently.

   

  The MTA's money problems prohibit increased frequency because it would be more expensive relative to less significant passenger needs.

  The increased frequency introduces significant delays to other services or operational difficulties.

  The increased frequency takes away from other — more deserving — services.

  The solution is an answer to a nonexistent problem.

Does anyone else see a pattern here?

[Priincenene]

If the money ever did materialize to extend one of the shuttles to full length, the R would easily be the better candidate over the M. Queens Blvd already has a 6th Avenue line serving it during the midnight hours, albeit express instead of local. Riders looking for Broadway have to transfer to the N or Q from the E at 42 St via the passageway or from the F at 34 St.

 

Extending the to Queens Blvd isn't that great of an idea. The should run local/shuttle from Queens, to Manhattan, just like you said. The already serves <E> express along Queens Plaza and portions of Manhattan. The extended TO QUEENS would just be a waste of time and $. An serving as a <R> Shuttle and runs local at the meantime would benefit some passengers.