R211 Discussion Thread

[subwaycommuter1983]

Don't expect the pilot train to be back this weekend. The A/C is being rerouted this weekend.

I just hope the MTA runs all r179's plus the best performing r46's to prevent any additional delays that could cripple service on the ACDEF trains.

[U-BahnNYC]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Don't expect the pilot train to be back this weekend. The A/C is being rerouted this weekend.

I just hope the MTA runs all r179's plus the best performing r46's to prevent any additional delays that could cripple service on the ACDEF trains.

I don't think weekend service is demanding enough for rolling stock problems to 'cripple' service.

[R68ACTrain]

https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/2155853/r211-overhead-interior-font Here is the font link for the interior signage bullet, including the diamond, if you wish to make signs like these.

[40 to 241st]

One of the new r211's just got vandalized

[Cait Sith]

19 hours ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

I'm getting r179 vibes all over again 

So we're just gonna sit here and act like anything new isn't supposed to have problems?

[Lawrence St]

12 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

So we're just gonna sit here and act like anything new isn't supposed to have problems?

Absolutely! Nothing new is suppose to have problems when they first get delivered! /s

[R32 3838]

42 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

So we're just gonna sit here and act like anything new isn't supposed to have problems?

These are going to have their own unique issues but nothing really major, It was expected. If people payed attention to this order for the past 3 years they would understand why the pilot set is having issues. People tend to forget that the R160s had a good chunk of teething issues including power issues in the beginning esp. south of broad channel until the issue was fixed and the r160s became the most reliable out of all the tech trains until the r179s took it's spot. The R211s will be fine, CBTC will give these cars teething issues along the road but it wouldn't be nothing major. This is why they did way more testing than they did with the previous fleets, it's good that they grounded the fleet now so they can fix whatever software or other issues now instead of later. 

[jon2305]

I don't understand why attach any issues currently involving the R211s to the R179s. These are obviously two different rolling stocks built buy two different railcar building entity's one of which is now under, Alstom transportation. Despite the fact that they are in the same category of NTT type subway cars, there is significant differences amongst them.

We should understand something, there are reasons why this railcars have " teething" problems. First off they are modern subway cars with new mechanical & electrical features. Advanced propulsion systems, software communication components because CBTC is involved as well as electrical & circuit powers to which all of it needs to be properly checked & tested rigorously. All these trains have to meet operational and mechanical satisfaction. That is the standard life especially for a modern NYC subway cars which bring plenty to the table, alas the NTT's and for these trains to " survive" the next 40 or even 50 years in the grind that is the New York City subway system they have to be.... tested.  The R211s are coming in with alot of new components that has to be broken into and be sure the TA has enough confidence in the world to be able to continue bringing them in. That's why Kawasaki personnel is on site along side the TA troubleshooting all the problems that need to be addressed before they can move forward bringing in more of them. Remember, the sooner the problems are addressed the better things can improve later on, even if it takes a while. Patience is virtual.

Alot of the issues that plagued the R179s were lack of management discipline, quality control and not meeting the deadline. But because there were things that needed to be addressed with R179s, at times they were allegedly ignored because of the preferred importance of making a timed deadline on delivery, and as we all know these cars were late. Therefore, the R179s took the blunt of mechanical inefficiency with doors opening while the train is moving and the infamous two-car separation north of Fulton st in 2020. But fast forward 2023, the R179s are one of the best performing subway cars in the system. Just like in life everything is a process. But I think its not fair to attach the issues of the R179s to the R211s which IMO is a different animal not to mention the fact that the open gangway sets are also being tested in their own right. We just need to give it time, it's just the way it is. Understand that the R211s solely represents a future generation of subway cars and they a primed to be workhorses for the heavy trafficked subway lines of the B division within the next couple of years. So given their potential usage rate in operation its important to test them now which is "key" no matter how long it takes. The TA is doing exactly what they need to do in making sure this cars are up to the demands of the subway system. That level of confidence needs to build in order to observe how these cars can behave under tough environments. All subway fleets go thru that given whatever timeline.

[subwaycommuter1983]

23 minutes ago, jon2305 said:

I don't understand why attach any issues currently involving the R211s to the R179s. These are obviously two different rolling stocks built buy two different railcar building entity's one of which is now under, Alstom transportation. Despite the fact that they are in the same category of NTT type subway cars, there is significant differences amongst them.

We should understand something, there are reasons why this railcars have " teething" problems. First off they are modern subway cars with new mechanical & electrical features. Advanced propulsion systems, software communication components because CBTC is involved as well as electrical & circuit powers to which all of it needs to be properly checked & tested rigorously. All these trains have to meet operational and mechanical satisfaction. That is the standard life especially for a modern NYC subway cars which bring plenty to the table, alas the NTT's and for these trains to " survive" the next 40 or even 50 years in the grind that is the New York City subway system they have to be.... tested.  The R211s are coming in with alot of new components that has to be broken into and be sure the TA has enough confidence in the world to be able to continue bringing them in. That's why Kawasaki personnel is on site along side the TA troubleshooting all the problems that need to be addressed before they can move forward bringing in more of them. Remember, the sooner the problems are addressed the better things can improve later on, even if it takes a while. Patience is virtual.

Alot of the issues that plagued the R179s were lack of management discipline, quality control and not meeting the deadline. But because there were things that needed to be addressed with R179s, at times they were allegedly ignored because of the preferred importance of making a timed deadline on delivery, and as we all know these cars were late. Therefore, the R179s took the blunt of mechanical inefficiency with doors opening while the train is moving and the infamous two-car separation north of Fulton st in 2020. But fast forward 2023, the R179s are one of the best performing subway cars in the system. Just like in life everything is a process. But I think its not fair to attach the issues of the R179s to the R211s which IMO is a different animal not to mention the fact that the open gangway sets are also being tested in their own right. We just need to give it time, it's just the way it is. Understand that the R211s solely represents a future generation of subway cars and they a primed to be workhorses for the heavy trafficked subway lines of the B division within the next couple of years. So given their potential usage rate in operation its important to test them now which is "key" no matter how long it takes. The TA is doing exactly what they need to do in making sure this cars are up to the demands of the subway system. That level of confidence needs to build in order to observe how these cars can behave under tough environments. All subway fleets go thru that given whatever timeline.

That is the reason why I said in previous posts that the MTA should not wait until old subway cars are falling apart to replace them. Look at the r44's and r46's right now. 

New subway cars should be ordered 10 years before old subway fleets are due for retirement to ensure a smooth transition and to allow new trains to be thoroughly tested and prevent older trains that are in terrible shape from staying in service.

This is why replacement orders for the r68's should have been included in this capital program. The r68's are in great shape now, but will be the same 10 years from now??

A lot can happen in 10 years.

Edited April 29, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[Metro CSW]

Eight years ago, it was on the planning stage, the agency monitoring Bombardier on the R179s before awarding it to just anyone else. The MTA couldn't even find funding for the contract til further years later and awarded it to KRC in 2019. I really wouldn't say they waited until old subway cars felt apart, tbh. Better late than never. Otherwise, the R262s wouldn't be announced right now. (I'll give that one til the 2030s to get that one started) One major contract at a time, guys. It's just careful planning, nothing can come perfect first time around, not even us.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Metro CSW

[Around the Horn]

While we're on the subject of teething issues and troubleshooting, I'd also like to note that the R211 is the launch customer for this new version of the Alstom OPTONIX propulsion.

[Comrade96]

2 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

While we're on the subject of teething issues and troubleshooting, I'd also like to note that the R211 is the launch customer for this new version of the Alstom OPTONIX propulsion.

ah so its a brand new propulsion system, makes sense as to why its having issues

[Lex]

34 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

While we're on the subject of teething issues and troubleshooting, I'd also like to note that the R211 is the launch customer for this new version of the Alstom OPTONIX propulsion.

If that's true (which is certainly a good possibility, though I'm only saying this because I can neither confirm nor deny the truth of the claim), then that explains a lot.

[Lawrence St]

17 hours ago, R68ACTrain said:

https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/2155853/r211-overhead-interior-font Here is the font link for the interior signage bullet, including the diamond, if you wish to make signs like these.

That split destination is driving me up the wall…why didn’t they go with LCD’s like the mock-up???

[Lawrence St]

So, the R211S pilot was "scheduled" to arrive in late April 2023...unless Kawaski has four cars hidden away somewhere getting ready to deliver them tonight, that's not happening.

[RedLine]

It's not.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

Unless those trains can do a cross-country sprint to the city from Nebraska in the span of a few hours, yeah not happening lol.

Apparently from the looks of this TFL Car vid, one of the R211S models is present in the shot. So maybe they'll have it out in another few months? I'm not sure

40 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So, the R211S pilot was "scheduled" to arrive in late April 2023...unless Kawaski has four cars hidden away somewhere getting ready to deliver them tonight, that's not happening.

 

[Lawrence St]

7 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Unless those trains can do a cross-country sprint to the city from Nebraska in the span of a few hours, yeah not happening lol.

Apparently from the looks of this TFL Car vid, one of the R211S models is present in the shot. So maybe they'll have it out in another few months? I'm not sure

 

Are you sure that's 100 and not some temp number they put on there?

[U-BahnNYC]

12 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

ah so its a brand new propulsion system, makes sense as to why its having issues

For a brand new propulsion system, it sure sounds a lot like the 1996 stock on the Jubilee line (which I happen to like).

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, U-BahnNYC said:

For a brand new propulsion system, it sure sounds a lot like the 1996 stock on the Jubilee line (which I happen to like).

It also sounds similar to the R110A, albeit a bit quieter

[Fan Railer]

5 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Unless those trains can do a cross-country sprint to the city from Nebraska in the span of a few hours, yeah not happening lol.

Apparently from the looks of this TFL Car vid, one of the R211S models is present in the shot. So maybe they'll have it out in another few months? I'm not sure

 

When I spoke to the driver during the delivery of 4080-4084 w/e 4/8, I believe the plan had been to deliver a 5-car set per week, which would have seen 85-89 delivered w/e 4/15. Since that set didn't end up getting delivered until w/e 4/29, and the driver had said the plan was to get the Staten Island test set delivered w/e 4/29, I would guess they're a few weeks behind schedule for whatever reason. I still think it would be reasonable to see the R211S test set get delivered some time around mid-May or so.

Remember we still don't have the second half of the soft gangway set on property yet (4055-59), so that has to come some time as well.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 4/28/2023 at 8:23 PM, 1998NewFlyer said:

I'm getting r179 vibes all over again 

Enjoy your vibes because the R179 is the best performing equipment in the system right now based in the MDBF.  

I told you guys the issues on the R179 would be worked out and that is exactly what happened.

The same will be for the R211's.  So lets stop rushing things, nobody tell me they have been on the property long enough to have all issues ironed out by now.  Whenever all issues are ironed out, they will be a fine piece of equipment.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:47 PM, Ale188 said:

(Sorry, but) And this is why we can't have nice things...

Oh stop being so dramatic!

[mannysoloway]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Enjoy your vibes because the R179 is the best performing equipment in the system right now based in the MDBF.  

I told you guys the issues on the R179 would be worked out and that is exactly what happened.

The same will be for the R211's.  So lets stop rushing things, nobody tell me they have been on the property long enough to have all issues ironed out by now.  Whenever all issues are ironed out, they will be a fine piece of equipment.

This community has always had a patience problem. Things will work out in the end.

[Ale188]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Oh stop being so dramatic!

I will if you stop complaining. I'm surprised you can't take a joke.