L Train Service Between Brooklyn & Manhattan May Be Shut Down For Years

[Kamen Rider]

There are multiple ways the buses could run and the people could travel. Wally's issue is the assumption everyone who takes the L is going to the 14th street area.

[Wallyhorse]

There are multiple ways the buses could run and the people could travel. Wally's issue is the assumption everyone who takes the L is going to the 14th street area.

Not quite.  It's the people in Manhattan who actually use the as the 14th Street crosstown because the bus there at times is at a snail's pace (plus those at 1st Avenue in particular who use it to get to other lines at Union Square and 6th & 8th Avenues).  As has been noted by others, that area has few subway options and for many in that area (especially east of 1st Avenue), having the is very important.

 

That by itself may not be a reason to have a shuttle on the Manhattan part of the between 1st and 8th Avenue, but add those people onto additional buses that would be needed to accommodate those and add that to the existing traffic there and that potentially is a huge problem unless you can somehow make it so drivers (other than essential vehicles) are blocked from being anywhere east of 10th avenue or west of 1st between Houston and 34th (except perhaps between 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM).  That is why I would demand it be done where the Manhattan portion remains running during that shutdown with regularly scheduled intervals where non-electrified work trains swap out cars in the tunnel not actually being worked on at any one point).

[CenSin]

Not quite.  It's the people in Manhattan who actually use the as the 14th Street crosstown because the bus there at times is at a snail's pace (plus those at 1st Avenue in particular who use it to get to other lines at Union Square and 6th & 8th Avenues).  As has been noted by others, that area has few subway options and for many in that area (especially east of 1st Avenue), having the is very important.

 

That by itself may not be a reason to have a shuttle on the Manhattan part of the between 1st and 8th Avenue, but add those people onto additional buses that would be needed to accommodate those and add that to the existing traffic there and that potentially is a huge problem unless you can somehow make it so drivers (other than essential vehicles) are blocked from being anywhere east of 10th avenue or west of 1st between Houston and 34th (except perhaps between 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM).  That is why I would demand it be done where the Manhattan portion remains running during that shutdown with regularly scheduled intervals where non-electrified work trains swap out cars in the tunnel not actually being worked on at any one point).

For those in Manhattan, the bus will be sufficient. You’re talking about a temporary service change which will be all the more shorter if all of the is shut down in Manhattan. For able-bodied people. walking is a pretty viable option. I do it often to move across 14 Street a few avenues rather than wasting time navigating the stairs and waiting for a train. For handicapped riders, only Union Square and 8 Avenue are wheelchair accessible anyway, so most of them will be taking the bus to begin with unless traversing 8 Avenue to/from Union Square is such a common itinerary.

 

Then there is the claim that people going crosstown alone will create a problem for 14 Street specifically. Let’s look at why the is even used in the first place:

1. They are already on 14 Street and are going to some other point on 14 Street.
2. They are not on 14 Street, but travel up or down to 14 Street for the , which happens to get them across town faster than a bus.

In the first case, they can walk, run, or take the bus. In the second case, they can walk, run, or take the bus. But the end result is that people who take the bus will take the route closest to them, and I’m pretty sure the distribution of riders isn’t all concentrated on 14 Street. Those above 18 Street or below 12 Street will simply take the M23 ot M8 respectively, which distributes the load and avoids the jam you speak of. Both of those routes connect to the north-south subway lines crossing them.

 

The cost of keeping the in place versus the benefit is simply ridiculous when more reasonable alternatives are available!

[Caelestor]

14th St riders will be inconvenienced, but they have plenty of options to get to the subway, either by bus or on foot. Riders of Myrtle Ave will just transfer to the , , , and trains. On the other hand, riders between Myrtle and Bedford Aves are going to have it rough. I expect they will use one of the following options:

 

• Take buses south to the Jamaica Line, causing major crush loads. Additional trains from Broadway Junction over the Williamsburg will need to be added so that the maximum throughput of 24 tph is achieved, and M trains need to be extended full-time to Essex St at a minimum.
• Midtown-bound riders will transfer to the G train (extended to 6 cars) for the , , trains, causing major crush loads.
• Bedford Ave riders can take the 24/7 bus bridge between Delancey / Essex Sts and Williamsburg or a ferry service.

[Javier]

So, when is the L going to be shutdown?

[BreeddekalbL]

So, when is the L going to be shutdown?

 

more then likely sometime in 2018 the needs to get fixed first

[Lance]

 

BUSHWICK — After months of quiet from the MTA since news first broke that the L train could fully shut down between Brooklyn and Manhattan for more than a year, the agency has finally committed to come before the public in early May, according to a local politician who met with the agency last week.

"We are working with the MTA to secure a location for the first town hall in Brooklyn," said state Assemblyman Joseph Lentol. "We are hopeful that the town hall will take place in the first week of May.”

 

Read more: Source

[Javier]

I don't know why everyone who lives along the is having a heart attack over this.

 

These are your travel alternatives, you can use the to the , use the bus, use your LEGS, or use the free shuttle buses.

 

However, if the will start terminating at Bedford Avenue, can the MTA set up a shuttle bus that will either take them to Marcy Avenue to the and or across the WillyB.

[Around the Horn]

I don't know why everyone who lives along the is having a heart attack over this.

 

These are your travel alternatives, you can use the to the , use the bus, use your LEGS, or use the free shuttle buses.

 

However, if the will start terminating at Bedford Avenue, can the MTA set up a shuttle bus that will either take them to Marcy Avenue to the and or across the WillyB.

The shuttle bus can serve Lorimer and can get right on the BQE/WillyB there without having to use the local streets to the bridge.

[bobtehpanda]

I don't know why everyone who lives along the is having a heart attack over this.

 

These are your travel alternatives, you can use the to the , use the bus, use your LEGS, or use the free shuttle buses.

 

However, if the will start terminating at Bedford Avenue, can the MTA set up a shuttle bus that will either take them to Marcy Avenue to the and or across the WillyB.

 

Because real estate and the transplants have been hyping up how good the connection is for years, and both groups of people think the bus is full of poor minorities and rabid homeless people. Service changes? In my neighborhood?

[DaTransitMan4608]

Because real estate and the transplants have been hyping up how good the connection is for years, and both groups of people think the bus is full of poor minorities and rabid homeless people. Service changes? In my neighborhood?

And in that hype, the real estate folks conveniently forgot to mention how close and equally convenient the is.

 

If they seriously believe that the bus is full of poor minorities and homeless people, they need to ride one and see that it's much safer than the subway in many ways. 

[Caelestor]

To be fair, riders around Bedford Ave will face travel times 2-3x longer than those today. I'd expect business and rent to decline during the shutdown. On the other hand, the to Broadway Junction will have increased service, so the areas around those stops should benefit.

[CenSin]

To be fair, riders around Bedford Ave will face travel times 2-3x longer than those today. I'd expect business and rent to decline during the shutdown. On the other hand, the to Broadway Junction will have increased service, so the areas around those stops should benefit.

They have already declined. I have real eastate contacts who have already begun pricing things a little differently. The rents along the route, with its increased frequency is going up soon.

[Wallyhorse]

They have already declined. I have real eastate contacts who have already begun pricing things a little differently. The rents along the route, with its increased frequency is going up soon.

Not surprising in the slightest.  It makes sense, especially if the shutdown is for two years or more.

 

That said, I'm sure some bargain hunters will look at places near the during the shutdown as well. 

[Fresh Pond]

I don't know why everyone who lives along the is having a heart attack over this.

 

These are your travel alternatives, you can use the to the , use the bus, use your LEGS, or use the free shuttle buses.

 

However, if the will start terminating at Bedford Avenue, can the MTA set up a shuttle bus that will either take them to Marcy Avenue to the and or across the WillyB.

As a daily ride, I actually them to shut both tubes down. Work will be done a lot faster...I mean look at Montague. Both were shut down at once, and they actually finished up early.

[MTA Bus]

As a daily ride, I actually them to shut both tubes down. Work will be done a lot faster...I mean look at Montague. Both were shut down at once, and they actually finished up early.

THANK YOU !!! I feel like the longer the tubes are shut down, the more people are going to complain about the work. With both tubes closed, they can have a 24/7 shutdown of the tunnels, which will allow them to accomplish as much as possible in one shot, instead of little pieces here and there. 

[Javier]

Exactly! People in NYC can be so whiny.

 

What if the tunnels break down and floods up with trains full of passengers inside? You know what the response is going to be. "THE MTA SHOULDVE FIXED THESE TUNNELS SO THIS DOSENT HAPPEN!" - Whiny New Yorker.

 

But anyway here's my proposal for this mess:

 

Shut down the in Manhttan, have shuttle buses run to either Marcy Avenue or Myrtle Ave or 2nd Avenue. Some trains drop out at East 105 St to clear some mess,

[Wallyhorse]

Exactly! People in NYC can be so whiny.

 

What if the tunnels break down and floods up with trains full of passengers inside? You know what the response is going to be. "THE MTA SHOULDVE FIXED THESE TUNNELS SO THIS DOSENT HAPPEN!" - Whiny New Yorker.

 

But anyway here's my proposal for this mess:

 

Shut down the in Manhttan, have shuttle buses run to either Marcy Avenue or Myrtle Ave or 2nd Avenue. Some trains drop out at East 105 St to clear some mess,

Same problem as before, that being the threat of gridlock from additional buses unless you make it where only essential vehicles are permitted between Houston and 34th Streets and 1st to 7th Avenue South from Houston-12th and 10th Avenue from 12th-34th Streets except between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM on weekdays and 9:00 PM and 7:30 AM on weekends and major holidays.  It's likely the only way to prevent some people from driving into Manhattan who otherwise would never give up their cars, which would in my opinion be necessary to make this work.

 

Otherwise, I stick to what I said before: Send several four-car sets to Manhattan to operate between 1st and 8th Avenue as a shuttle with it set up where at regularly scheduled intervals whichever tunnel is NOT being used has non-electrified work trains come through it to swap out sets of cars, using one side of 1st avenue (and the tunnel between 1st and 3rd Avenue) and the lay-up tracks between 6th and 8th Avenue for storage.  Not perfect, but that at least cuts down on the threat of gridlock, even if not on 14th Street itself.

[Lance]

Same problem as before, that being the threat of gridlock from additional buses unless you make it where only essential vehicles are permitted between Houston and 34th Streets and 1st to 7th Avenue South from Houston-12th and 10th Avenue from 12th-34th Streets except between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM on weekdays and 9:00 PM and 7:30 AM on weekends and major holidays.  It's likely the only way to prevent some people from driving into Manhattan who otherwise would never give up their cars, which would in my opinion be necessary to make this work.

Right there is where this whole thing falls apart. You want to essentially shut down Manhattan south of 34th Street? They don't go that far when the president is in town for a couple of days and you want to do it for the better part of two years? What you're doing is basically pushing everything over to the FDR Drive and the West Side Highway, causing congestion the likes New York has probably never seen before. All this for some damn subway disruption. Yeah, it's going to be bad with the additional bus traffic, but it will not be this apocalyptic event you're envisioning.

[bobtehpanda]

Right there is where this whole thing falls apart. You want to essentially shut down Manhattan south of 34th Street? They don't go that far when the president is in town for a couple of days and you want to do it for the better part of two years? What you're doing is basically pushing everything over to the FDR Drive and the West Side Highway, causing congestion the likes New York has probably never seen before. All this for some damn subway disruption. Yeah, it's going to be bad with the additional bus traffic, but it will not be this apocalyptic event you're envisioning.

 

But don't you know that the congestion on 14th St will make it hard for buses to reach Resorts World Casino, which will make Genting, the big Malaysian property developer, very angry, causing them to pull investment from the giant convention center at Aqueduct that Cuomo wants, resulting in De Blasio's loss in the 2017 election because Cuomo won't fund the Rockaway Beach reactivation out of spite? /s

[Lance]

But don't you know that the congestion on 14th St will make it hard for buses to reach Resorts World Casino, which will make Genting, the big Malaysian property developer, very angry, causing them to pull investment from the giant convention center at Aqueduct that Cuomo wants, resulting in De Blasio's loss in the 2017 election because Cuomo won't fund the Rockaway Beach reactivation out of spite? /s

I could actually see that one happening just because...

[bobtehpanda]

I could actually see that one happening just because...

 

Given how long all the planning studies for SAS took, I don't think it'll be ready to fund until a new Governor (or several) go into office.

[Union Tpke]

Given how long all the planning studies for SAS took, I don't think it'll be ready to fund until a new Governor (or several) go into office.

 

I wish they didn't have to go through all of this nonsense and get it over with. One egregious example is when the Bayonne Bridge was having studies done fore its reconstruction, historic buildings that weren't nearby got into the mess of it. I wish that they would do it as quickly as possible so work can finally get started. Sheesh.

[Javier]

Ok here's a new plan I drew up that might work:

 

still terminates at Lorimer, buses stay the same, however;

 

One train runs as a shuttle between Essex St and Chambers St; train riders coming from the can get off at Essex Street and use shuttle buses to get to First and Third Avenue's.

 

To get to 14 St, they can use the (or depending on the time) down to 14 St.

 

To get to 8th Avenue, there can be a shuttle bus that departs from Wycoff Avenue that can be sent non stop to Franklin Avenue and transfer to the to 14 Street.

 

However, late night service has to be extended to 42 St or Bowling Green to composite for late riders.

 

Why do you think?

[CenSin]

Same problem as before, that being the threat of gridlock from additional buses unless you make it where only essential vehicles are permitted between Houston and 34th Streets and 1st to 7th Avenue South from Houston-12th and 10th Avenue from 12th-34th Streets except between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM on weekdays and 9:00 PM and 7:30 AM on weekends and major holidays.  It's likely the only way to prevent some people from driving into Manhattan who otherwise would never give up their cars, which would in my opinion be necessary to make this work.

 

Otherwise, I stick to what I said before: Send several four-car sets to Manhattan to operate between 1st and 8th Avenue as a shuttle with it set up where at regularly scheduled intervals whichever tunnel is NOT being used has non-electrified work trains come through it to swap out sets of cars, using one side of 1st avenue (and the tunnel between 1st and 3rd Avenue) and the lay-up tracks between 6th and 8th Avenue for storage.  Not perfect, but that at least cuts down on the threat of gridlock, even if not on 14th Street itself.

This is exactly what I answered a dozen posts ago. And it still stands undefeated:

 

 

For those in Manhattan, the bus will be sufficient. You’re talking about a temporary service change which will be all the more shorter if all of the is shut down in Manhattan. For able-bodied people. walking is a pretty viable option. I do it often to move across 14 Street a few avenues rather than wasting time navigating the stairs and waiting for a train. For handicapped riders, only Union Square and 8 Avenue are wheelchair accessible anyway, so most of them will be taking the bus to begin with unless traversing 8 Avenue to/from Union Square is such a common itinerary.

 

Then there is the claim that people going crosstown alone will create a problem for 14 Street specifically. Let’s look at why the is even used in the first place:

 

1. They are already on 14 Street and are going to some other point on 14 Street.

2. They are not on 14 Street, but travel up or down to 14 Street for the , which happens to get them across town faster than a bus.

 

In the first case, they can walk, run, or take the bus. In the second case, they can walk, run, or take the bus. But the end result is that people who take the bus will take the route closest to them, and I’m pretty sure the distribution of riders isn’t all concentrated on 14 Street. Those above 18 Street or below 12 Street will simply take the M23 ot M8 respectively, which distributes the load and avoids the jam you speak of. Both of those routes connect to the north-south subway lines crossing them.

 

The cost of keeping the in place versus the benefit is simply ridiculous when more reasonable alternatives are available!