Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[realizm]

If the is going to delay a train by sharing tracks with it during a period of 10 minute headways how in the world does the railroad run during rush hour? (serious question)

 

The fact being that the continuously runs to Brooklyn via the 6th Ave express tunnels and utilizing the Christie St cut avoiding the switch lineup problems anyway. As far as Bronx service there is many times a slowdown where the and both have to get to its appropriate tracks at the 59th Street in particular switch stalling trains in the loop past 7th Ave which is unavoidable considering circumstances necessitating supplemental GC service during the rush.

 

I havent seen problems at the 145th St junction on the PM rush however on the AM Rush it does create a holdup on the 6th Ave routes but thats more because of the or entering the CPW uptown trunk line form the upper level.

 

Most the times the current arrangement runs smoothly but sometimes I've seen some ridiculous delays.

 

Which was why many was thining of just sending the to brooklyn on weekends, logistically making sense as far as the Manhattan lines, but then that creates another problem - redundant service on the BMT South Brooklyn division.

 

So I guess we all came to a conclusion? Simply bump service weekends, scarch the idea and call it the day?

[Snowblock]

If the is going to delay a train by sharing tracks with it during a period of 10 minute headways how in the world does the railroad run during rush hour? (serious question)

Serious answer - there's no track work or construction flagging during rush hour. This makes a BIG difference in capacity during off peak hours and weekends.

[realizm]

Thats a good point to consider Snow, didnt look at it that way.

[FamousNYLover]

This problem could be easily solved by more signage. They already block off access to stations south of Canal Street on weekends. Biggest problem is that most people don't read the signs. More signs indicating which routes are part-time (such as at the entrance of every station) would give more of a heads-up. If anything, provide an easily-accessible weekend map that looks just like the normal map showing the non-GO service patterns and get it to every hotel and tourist guidebook so they have a chance of learning the routes.

 

In fact, tourist traffic is the most-viable argument that the should run on weekends because the CPW local serves some highly-trafficked tourist areas of Central Park and the Museum of Natural History. Remember, few rapid transit systems have more than a tiny amount of interlining (if any) or fewer operating routes on weekends.

Also, most tourists going to JFK airport wait for when service rerouted over to line when station agents properly put sign "NO service at this station. is at 34th St-Herald Sq." but no one reads it.

I always kept wondering if tourists missed flight because of G.O.

 

When is not available, they should take train. If service is not available past Jay St with shuttle busing, they should take .

 

I also remember when had no service to Sutphin Blvd and Jamaica Center, Shuttle Bus were chaos on weekend, and tourists were confused as hell how to get to JFK Airport.

Tourists should consider alternate like Q10 LTD Bus at Kew Garden; Q3 at 169th/179th St Station.

I also think PANY&NJ should make airport announcement if Rockaways service and service are affected by MTA G.O.

I also remember during NYC Marathon, tourists are not happy M60 bus had to go all the way through the Bronx via Major Degan Expressway for tourists who wanted stations east of 5th Av, but it wasn't possible.

Edited February 11, 2014 by FamousNYLover

[FamousNYLover]

Also, I remember when train had no service east of Mets-Willets Point, Flushing-Main St entrance was opened for MetroCard purchase only, but Chinese residents kept going downstairs thinking there's subway when service notice clearly states NO TRAINS in their language.

When everytime when I'm on weekends, I kept wondering tourists knows is not going into Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn Heights.

Back to , I think should run midday service to/from 145th St to Brighton Beach on weekends but it depends on Albany's funding, right?

 

Lots of people doesn't know is state agency.

Edited February 11, 2014 by FamousNYLover

[qjtransitmaster]

Also, I remember when train had no service east of Mets-Willets Point, Flushing-Main St entrance was opened for MetroCard purchase only, but Chinese residents kept going downstairs thinking there's subway when service notice clearly states NO TRAINS in their language.

 

When everytime when I'm on weekends, I kept wondering tourists knows is not going into Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn Heights.

 

Back to , I think should run midday service to/from 145th St to Brighton Beach on weekends but it depends on Albany's funding, right?

 

Lots of people doesn't know is state agency.

Cause they are idiots that's why. World can care less about idiots.

[YankeesPwnMets]

Also, most tourists going to JFK airport wait for when service rerouted over to line when station agents properly put sign "NO service at this station. is at 34th St-Herald Sq." but no one reads it.

I always kept wondering if tourists missed flight because of G.O.

 

When is not available, they should take train. If service is not available past Jay St with shuttle busing, they should take .

 

I also remember when had no service to Sutphin Blvd and Jamaica Center, Shuttle Bus were chaos on weekend, and tourists were confused as hell how to get to JFK Airport.

Tourists should consider alternate like Q10 LTD Bus at Kew Garden; Q3 at 169th/179th St Station.

I also think PANY&NJ should make airport announcement if Rockaways service and service are affected by MTA G.O.

I also remember during NYC Marathon, tourists are not happy M60 bus had to go all the way through the Bronx via Major Degan Expressway for tourists who wanted stations east of 5th Av, but it wasn't possible.

Tourists aren't gonna study the whole bus map to find JFK Airport. They're gonna look for the one route that goes right to JFK (which is the ) and then hop on it and expect the train to bring them where they want to go. Easy for you to say "Oh they should make a transfer to this bus etc etc" but then you have to remember that most tourists aren't going to get familiar with the bus system in NYC.

 

Should tourists learn alternate routes? Of course. Will they take the time to? Hell no. I went to MetLife Stadium for the last Giants game of the season. Before that, I had never taken NJ Transit in my life. Should have I planned for an alternate route to get there? Yeah. But I memorized one route only(F to PATH to NJ Transit) to get there and if there was some reroute on PATH or NJ Transit, I was gonna be f*cked. Same with most tourists.

 

As for the , I don't think the needs to run on weekends because Brighton does not need extra weekend service. When I visit my cousins out in the Sheepshead Bay area over the weekends, most of the time the is plenty. As for short turning at 2 Av, the posts above already cover the issues with delays due to switching. Terminating at Essex is out of the question. There is no need for this complex fleet switch over the weekend which involves switching a million signs on the R32/R68/R68A for the and then changing them again for the Monday rush. The MTA should just run more trains. If they deem that West End does not need any extra train service, short turn the extra trains at 9th Avenue or something.

Edited February 12, 2014 by YankeesPwnMets

[Eric B]

The ridership isn't increasing with all the building they're doing out there?

I know closer in, there used to be a lot of riders on the weekends (including a lot of Chinese going to Chinatown).

[FamousNYLover]

Most tourists uses both and .

When is not running on 8th Av, tourists doesn't seem to aware also goes to JFK Airport.

 

It's also same when is not running between Jay St and  Utica or Euclid Avs with shuttle bus, tourists who takes to JFK Airport doesn't seem to aware is faster to JFK.

[TeeLow]

Most tourists uses both and .

When is not running on 8th Av, tourists doesn't seem to aware also goes to JFK Airport.

 

It's also same when is not running between Jay St and  Utica or Euclid Avs with shuttle bus, tourists who takes to JFK Airport doesn't seem to aware is faster to JFK.

Well, when a tourist is used to taking the to JFK and a GO forces a change of plans that would require them to take the how much would you bet that they would simply wait for that on the downtown plat instead of crossing over to grab the Jamaica bound ? Or the on the uptown plat if the was doomed by the dreaded GO terrorist? These aren't savvy NYers were talking about.

[bobtehpanda]

Well, when a tourist is used to taking the to JFK and a GO forces a change of plans that would require them to take the how much would you bet that they would simply wait for that on the downtown plat instead of crossing over to grab the Jamaica bound ? Or the on the uptown plat if the was doomed by the dreaded GO terrorist? These aren't savvy NYers were talking about.

 

At least the no longer runs to Euclid. The distance the travels alongside the isn't too great.

[TeeLow]

At least the no longer runs to Euclid. The distance the travels alongside the isn't too great.

Considering Euclid Ave is a step in the right direction, it would be a benefit if it did. At least they could then slide over to catch that they weren't savvy enough to get in Manhattan.

 

 

As for the , I don't think the needs to run on weekends because Brighton does not need extra weekend service. When I visit my cousins out in the Sheepshead Bay area over the weekends, most of the time the is plenty. As for short turning at 2 Av, the posts above already cover the issues with delays due to switching. Terminating at Essex is out of the question. There is no need for this complex fleet switch over the weekend which involves switching a million signs on the R32/R68/R68A for the and then changing them again for the Monday rush. The MTA should just run more trains. If they deem that West End does not need any extra train service, short turn the extra trains at 9th Avenue or something.

Since it was explained that both the & run at 6TPH it was conceivable to short the at 2nd Ave with minimal conflict. As for car signage, it's part of a train crew's responsibility to manually change them over when the need arises. In a few years that will be a moot point anyway. However, your idea of increasing service and turning the excess at 9th Ave is with merit as long as there's no problems along 4th Ave because of it.

[FamousNYLover]

When I was on during emergency G.O,  tourists weren't aware of Jamaica-bound trains.

 

When had weekend G.O with rerouted service, tourists don't know Rockaways service is available.

 

It's same thing when I am on Ozone Park train and tourists think all goes to JFK.

 

I was once at 33rd St PATH MetroCard Vending Machine when PATH was $2.25 and subway/bus was $2.50 and lady using PATH MetroCard Vending Machine couldn't tell difference from Subway MetroCard Vending Machine and the lady (properly tourist was confuse).

 

When I am on either or on weekends, people ask "If this train?" which is more common pharases from tourists.

 

It's not just only NYC Subway.

I also remember when MegaBus was first locate to 9th Av from 33rd St/8th Av at former M10 bus stop, even MegaBus site and reservation sign on their ticket reads :Bus leaves from 9th Av between 33rd & 31st Sts, but I seen MegaBus riders waited at old stop.

 

When I was at 34th St/8th Av or 33rd St/th Av, other inter-regional bus service agency tells BoltBus passengers where to go if they were confused.

 

Even some folks make mistake between city bus and airport shuttle bus as well.

[TeeLow]

[cl94]

As for car signage, it's part of a train crew's responsibility to manually change them over when the need arises. In a few years that will be a moot point anyway.

 

Aren't LCD signs and automated announcements in the plans for when the R62/As and R68/As are SMSed in the near future?

[realizm]

Aren't LCD signs and automated announcements in the plans for when the R62/As and R68/As are SMSed in the near future?

 

It would be great if they could but they did a study on that and they concluded that with the electronics in there which is outdated it will not be possible or cost effective to upgrade the new age SMEE's in such a manner.

 

Study can be found here: http://www.mta.info/nyct/procure/rfi/9003sol.pdf

[Jsunflyguy]

I put the not running on weekends trap down to poor signage. I've worked with tourists for the past year, at Rockefeller and there is one sign that a tourist might see that will indicate that the isn't running which is the overhead boarding sign. Unless the tourist uses the MTA website instead of the map there is no indication that the tourist is forced to see showing the is weekdays only. The sole indicator of the line's part-time status is the overhead boarding sign which would only be seen if someone knew it was supposed to be there as the platform the train will arrive on is indicated by the sign on the steps. Coupled with them determining their route from the map a person will proceed with full confidence they have all the information needed.
 

[Wallyhorse]

This problem could be easily solved by more signage. They already block off access to stations south of Canal Street on weekends. Biggest problem is that most people don't read the signs. More signs indicating which routes are part-time (such as at the entrance of every station) would give more of a heads-up. If anything, provide an easily-accessible weekend map that looks just like the normal map showing the non-GO service patterns and get it to every hotel and tourist guidebook so they have a chance of learning the routes.

 

In fact, tourist traffic is the most-viable argument that the should run on weekends because the CPW local serves some highly-trafficked tourist areas of Central Park and the Museum of Natural History. Remember, few rapid transit systems have more than a tiny amount of interlining (if any) or fewer operating routes on weekends.

They do need to do that.  One thing they COULD do on Weekends, however, is have shuttle trains operate between Whitehall and the tunnel level of Canal Street for people too stupid to realize you can take the Lexington Avenue line or the to Chambers/Brooklyn Bridge and change to the and there for similar stations.

 

One other thing that ought to be considered if they don't want to have the operate on weekends is to do a combination of the and and have the on weekends run to 145th or 168th or if warranted Bedford Park Boulevard and that be the second CPW local on weekends and make it clear that such service would be WEEKENDS AND MAJOR HOLIDAYS ONLY (this version has the as a full local on 6th Avenue AND CPW, switching to/from the express track between 34th and 42nd Streets). 

 

That might be the best way to have weekend CPW service via 6th Avenue.

[Fresh Pond]

Edited February 13, 2014 by Fresh Pond

[qjtransitmaster]

And I thought his last post in the express thread was bad damn brace yourself it's gonna get worse. Just when I thought that was wrong now this.

They do need to do that.  One thing they COULD do on Weekends, however, is have shuttle trains operate between Whitehall and the tunnel level of Canal Street for people too stupid to realize you can take the Lexington Avenue line or the to Chambers/Brooklyn Bridge and change to the and there for similar stations.

 

One other thing that ought to be considered if they don't want to have the operate on weekends is to do a combination of the and and have the on weekends run to 145th or 168th or if warranted Bedford Park Boulevard and that be the second CPW local on weekends and make it clear that such service would be WEEKENDS AND MAJOR HOLIDAYS ONLY (this version has the as a full local on 6th Avenue AND CPW, switching to/from the express track between 34th and 42nd Streets). 

 

That might be the best way to have weekend CPW service via 6th Avenue.

I plead for you to stop please?

[RollOver]

That might be the best way to have weekend CPW service via 6th Avenue.

 

That might be the best way to justify your foamish fantasies.

[FamousNYLover]

Please, Wallyhorse. Please stop making this thread into fantasy.

If runs to/from CPW on weekends, tourists will be more confused. Also Queens Blvd residents will get confuse as well.

will not work out.

There's another crazy foamer at Straphangers Campaign who wants to ban all photography, extend full service instead of having Holiday train, who wants to fire all unionized employees because they go on strike for their contracts.

Please stop destoryng the thread.

 

Back to , doesn't need to run all weekends and so does .

Weekend service only gets to extend to 57th St if service is not running into Manhattan.

If there was , there's will be delay at 59th St-Columbus Circle and 145th St, because I often take often when I'm on West Side.

[Lance]

@Wallyhorse: Just an honest question here: Do you ever think about how your ideas would be implemented or how they'd be perceived by the riding public? I ask this because it seems like little thought is given to questions like these when you make these sometimes strange and other times, simply impossible proposals.

 

I know it's really not the subject of this thread, but since it keeps being brought up, I feel I should address it with some sort of logic. Let's take your weekend to Harlem/Washington Hts idea. First off, you're confusing many riders along 6th Avenue and Central Park West because you have two very different lines serving these sectors depending on which day of the week it is. And it isn't an issue of people not paying attention. At least not entirely. You must remember that the general riding public aren't rail enthusiasts; they're just trying to get from point A to B. Running completely different services along the same stretch of line on different days is hard to convey to the casual rider in both written form as well as on the map. That's explicitly why Transit doesn't run lines like they did decades ago.

 

Secondly, what is the purpose of sending the up Central Park West anyhow? If it's to add more service to Central Park West and/or 6th Avenue, that can be done by extending the hours/days of operation on the already existing line, which everyone knows about, rather than sending a line that usually runs to Queens, up to Harlem. If the purpose is to link the Jamaica/Myrtle Avenue elevated lines to 8th Avenue, wouldn't it make more sense to create and run such a route during the times when it would pick up the most traffic, instead of only on weekends? Also, is the ridership even there for such a route in the first place? And no, I'm not talking about a couple of riders who'd benefit from a one-seat ride. The ridership has to justify its cost.

 

These are some of the questions you have to ask yourself when you're about to post these ideas and fantastical proposals. Concerning this forum, I think you need to ask yourself whether your posts actually contribute something to the subject at hand or will it just be perceived as spamming. Just saying.

[Vistausss]

Imagine what NYC would look like if most or all of Wallyhorse's proposals, which he made over the years up till now, were implemented...

Edited February 13, 2014 by Vistausss

[cl94]

Imagine what NYC would look like if most or all of Wallyhorse's proposals, which he made over the years up till now, were implement

 

Has anybody been keeping a list? I'd like to see all of them on one fantasy map to see what would be.