W train coming back this fall

[Jdog14]

the train is reduced to a 20 minute headway whenever there is construction work happening on the Astoria line in the middle of the day so yes that is actually a slight reduced in track capacity.

 

It's reduced train service. Track capacity is the same, the service is just moving from one track to the next.

[Mtatransit]

the train is reduced to a 20 minute headway whenever there is construction work happening on the Astoria line in the middle of the day so yes that is actually a slight reduced in track capacity.

Most likely service is reduced so the track workers could work on the tracks without so many trains passing by

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think the is unofficially cutting service where they can, which includes the subways.  They already admitted to that a few years ago with the buses and I think they've continued to do it where they can get away with it.  There is no way that you can have "Good Service" and have trains running so infrequently the way that they have at times during rush hour otherwise.  Noticed the longer than usual waits in between trains last week a few days... They keep championing how they're being more fiscally sound every year and there is no way in hell that they aren't getting some of those savings from unofficial cuts.

[MHV9218]

I think the is unofficially cutting service where they can, which includes the subways.  They already admitted to that a few years ago with the buses and I think they've continued to do it where they can get away with it.  There is no way that you can have "Good Service" and have trains running so infrequently the way that they have at times during rush hour otherwise.  Noticed the longer than usual waits in between trains last week a few days... They keep championing how they're being more fiscally sound every year and there is no way in hell that they aren't getting some of those savings from unofficial cuts.

 

When you just make up a theory, we call that a conspiracy. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When you just make up a theory, we call that a conspiracy. 

Since there aren't any sources to document this that's exactly what it is.  HOWEVER, what is definitely evident is that the has publicly stated on numerous occasions that they want to be aggressive in cutting overtime, so my question to you is, how do you think they're going to do that?  There has to be cuts somewhere, and given their history of unofficially cutting bus service (which is documented - see link below), it seems like a reasonable conclusion to think that they would do this across the board.  

 

Source: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/03/26/report-under-the-table-cuts-target-overtime/

 

I mean really, the isn't going to volunteer such information unless they are pressed to do so.  

 

Here's a source from the on them looking to crack down on overtime:

 

Source: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/MTA-Special-Overtime-Report.pdf

[itmaybeokay]

Since there aren't any sources to document this that's exactly what it is.  HOWEVER, what is definitely evident is that the has publicly stated on numerous occasions that they want to be aggressive in cutting overtime, so my question to you is, how do you think they're going to do that?  

 

You cut overtime by hiring. 

 

I back up this statement with the fact that there is an open-competitive train operator exam in may - the sign up deadline was 12/21. 

 

I think the is unofficially cutting service where they can, which includes the subways.  They already admitted to that a few years ago with the buses and I think they've continued to do it where they can get away with it.  There is no way that you can have "Good Service" and have trains running so infrequently the way that they have at times during rush hour otherwise.  Noticed the longer than usual waits in between trains last week a few days... They keep championing how they're being more fiscally sound every year and there is no way in hell that they aren't getting some of those savings from unofficial cuts.

 

Just realize, the trains run via a timetable. It leaves the terminal at a given time, is supposed to arrive a given time, is assigned a crew. Dispatchers are expecting it, tower operators are expecting it. And yes - passengers are expecting it. 

 

So, to "unofficially" cut service by running trains less frequently - you'd have to maintain a public timetable and a "super secret squirrel" timetable with the REAAL numbers. Then distribute that to crews, update assignments, get it to tower operators and dispatchers and MAKE SURE EVERYONE KEEPS MUM ABOUT IT. 

 

I know that occams razor went out of style this year, but this theory really doesn't make the cut. 

 

It's a lot easier to drop a bus from the schedule "under the table" when someone calls in sick, it's a lot harder to drop a train from the schedule. Just think about the capacities of the vehicles involved. An abandoned trip or ABD on a subway line will impact the line for hours if not the rest of the day. It's not something you can just do. And people NOTICE when you do. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You cut overtime by hiring. 

 

I back up this statement with the fact that there is an open-competitive train operator exam in may - the sign up deadline was 12/21. 

 

 

Just realize, the trains run via a timetable. It leaves the terminal at a given time, is supposed to arrive a given time, is assigned a crew. Dispatchers are expecting it, tower operators are expecting it. And yes - passengers are expecting it. 

 

So, to "unofficially" cut service by running trains less frequently - you'd have to maintain a public timetable and a "super secret squirrel" timetable with the REAAL numbers. Then distribute that to crews, update assignments, get it to tower operators and dispatchers and MAKE SURE EVERYONE KEEPS MUM ABOUT IT. 

 

I know that occams razor went out of style this year, but this theory really doesn't make the cut. 

What passenger do you know complains officially when trains are delayed or don't show up?  I can't think of one.  Yes, you're right, I too think it's difficult to just unofficially cut a train, but nevertheless, I don't put anything past the , and when there is long gaps in service and no explanation for it, it certainly makes me wonder what is going on.  I would be curious in knowing what the 's turnover rate is.  I imagine it must be high though, so while they are always giving exams, you still have a revolving door overall, which means that despite them wanting to hire more to decrease overtime, it's still a huge challenge.  

[danielhg121]

If you go to NYCT subway's twitter, you can count how many times runs go missing as trains go out of service. People notice and complain via twitter and all mta says is "regrets, blah blah blah trains went out of service". Sometimes multiple runs go missing in a row, how do they get away with that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If you go to NYCT subway's twitter, you can count how many times runs go missing as trains go out of service. People notice and complain via twitter and all mta says is "regrets, blah blah blah trains went out of service". Sometimes multiple runs go missing in a row, how do they get away with that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

That's exactly what I'm saying. And how in the middle of rush hour do you have 30 minute waits for one train?  I keep hearing that it is basically IMPOSSIBLE for trains not to go missing and yet there is no explanation for the insanely long waits, when there are supposedly no delays.  All I know is it doesn't add up at all.  Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want, but I'm sticking with what my gut tells me.

[biGC323232]

That's exactly what I'm saying. And how in the middle of rush hour do you have 30 minute waits for one train?  I keep hearing that it is basically IMPOSSIBLE for trains not to go missing and yet there is no explanation for the insanely long waits, when there are supposedly no delays.  All I know is it doesn't add up at all.  Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want, but I'm sticking with what my gut tells me.

Lol...30 minute waits during rush hour...Dam what line or lines your using VG8????

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Lol...30 minute waits during rush hour...Dam what line or lines your using VG8????

line... Basically any line without countdown clocks generally are the ones with the longest waits... lol

[Lance]

Something tells me you're exaggerating your wait times there. As someone who uses the on a fairly frequent basis, I've never waited anywhere near that long for the train, or any train for that matter. Of course, if something occurs to hinder service along the Central Park West, 6th Avenue or Brighton lines, service will be cut as it's a supplemental line to the and and thus is expendable. That could explain your extended wait times, but even that's a stretch.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Something tells me you're exaggerating your wait times there. As someone who uses the on a fairly frequent basis, I've never waited anywhere near that long for the train, or any train for that matter. Of course, if something occurs to hinder service along the Central Park West, 6th Avenue or Brighton lines, service will be cut as it's a supplemental line to the and and thus is expendable. That could explain your extended wait times, but even that's a stretch.

That's not an exaggeration at all, and I remember the incident because I had to cancel a meeting as a result of no train coming.  Neither the nor the run that frequently during the rush. I think both of them run every 10 minutes tops, so a 30 minute wait isn't all that crazy, and as you said, the is the first thing to go anyway when there is a snowflake or anything that they consider "inclement weather" since the considers it a supplemental line.  Can't recall how many times they've cancelled service outright early because of that during the winter time.  Now it has been a while since I waited with NO train at all, but I have certainly still experienced waits of almost 30 minutes because I couldn't get on a OR train due to overcrowding during the rush.  

 

My latest wait of 30+ minutes during rush hour was earlier this month at the Broadway-Lafayette station on December 1st to be exact, but that was supposedly due to some backup along the line that led to insane crowding on the platform.  In any event waiting for the train southbound, there were TWO trains in that 30+ minutes that I waited (mind you I arrived on the train at that station around 17:00 and remained there waiting for a train until after 17:30), and both were packed beyond recognition, so I and many others were left on the platform with no real explanation as to why the trains were so backed up. Announcements were being made but could not be heard since a or seemed to come every time one was made.  I had to give up and go upstairs and hail a cab along Houston Street, otherwise I would've been late for my 18:00 meeting and I only needed to go three more stops to East Broadway.  Just because you don't experience such long waits doesn't mean they don't occur.  They do, and the delays are becoming more and more frequent during rush hour in particular.  The coming back is welcomed, because we need all of the train service we can get. I get the impression that the simply can't handle the crowds at times during rush hour and even lines that run like water like the train can become a complete mess.  While I was waiting to go to East Broadway, I sat there and counted at least more than half a dozen trains running in the other direction, many of which were empty.

[R42N]

I agree with V68. service is extremely inconsistent, and the does not have adequate resources to run the line as frequently as it should.

 

I work in Central Park, and I’ve waited 25-30 minutes in extreme cases at 81st-Museum for a while watching three to sometimes five ’s passing through. The is an inconsistent line. 

 

I honestly don’t think the is necessary, I’d like to see most of the cars transferred over to the actual (running local and serving Brooklyn), and have some of those cars (the R68s) transferred to the . 

 

It’d even things out a little bit. 

[S78 via Hylan]

The IS useful and it reduces some of the bottlenecks on the Broadway Line.

[checkmatechamp13]

What passenger do you know complains officially when trains are delayed or don't show up?  I can't think of one.  Yes, you're right, I too think it's difficult to just unofficially cut a train, but nevertheless, I don't put anything past the , and when there is long gaps in service and no explanation for it, it certainly makes me wonder what is going on.  I would be curious in knowing what the 's turnover rate is.  I imagine it must be high though, so while they are always giving exams, you still have a revolving door overall, which means that despite them wanting to hire more to decrease overtime, it's still a huge challenge.  

 

I remember an article in this thread that says the average employee has been there for 13 years (not sure if they meant the mean or median).

 

I remember reading something like 25% don't make it past their probationary period, but once they make it, they tend to stay for a while.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I remember an article in this thread that says the average employee has been there for 13 years (not sure if they meant the mean or median).

 

I remember reading something like 25% don't make it past their probationary period, but once they make it, they tend to stay for a while.

Interesting.  On the other hand you have employees that claim that turnover is high for a number of reasons (longer probation periods being one).

[R42N]

The IS useful and it reduces some of the bottlenecks on the Broadway Line.

 

Agree to Disagree, I guess.......

[Around the Horn]

The is totally necessary. That 2010-16 service pattern had to be one of the worst ever created...

[Calvin]

How was the to Astoria back then?

[R42N]

The is totally necessary. That 2010-16 service pattern had to be one of the worst ever created...

 

 

As someone who used the Broadway Line for all six years under the pattern, I respectfully disagree. 

 

However, I’m not going to protest that much, because the doesn’t make service worse, it just doesn’t change anything. I didn’t see any issues with the ’10-’16 plan, other than the fact that both the and the had to cross-over. Really, there is only room for one line to cross-over. 

 

I think short turning some ’s at Canal and increasing service along 4th/Sea Beach makes the most sense, but, again, it doesn’t keep me up at night.....

[itmaybeokay]

That's exactly what I'm saying. And how in the middle of rush hour do you have 30 minute waits for one train?  I keep hearing that it is basically IMPOSSIBLE for trains not to go missing and yet there is no explanation for the insanely long waits, when there are supposedly no delays.  All I know is it doesn't add up at all.  Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want, but I'm sticking with what my gut tells me.

 

Well, a train can be taken out of service because of equipment problems, a passenger can need medical attention, a track issue could cause one or two trains to need to be rerouted: literally dozens of unplanned issues could cause a sporadic long wait during rush hour

 

Especially on a line that's duplicated it's entire route. YES - the B is among the first to get cut if there's an issue. Because it's duplicated. 

 

But if you honestly think that this is the result of a secret cost cutting conspiracy - you're a moron. There's no other way around that. It is the least likely of the possible causes. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As someone who used the Broadway Line for all six years under the pattern, I respectfully disagree. 

 

However, I’m not going to protest that much, because the doesn’t make service worse, it just doesn’t change anything. I didn’t see any issues with the ’10-’16 plan, other than the fact that both the and the had to cross-over. Really, there is only room for one line to cross-over. 

 

I think short turning some ’s at Canal and increasing service along 4th/Sea Beach makes the most sense, but, again, it doesn’t keep me up at night.....

Well the main reason I support the coming back is so that both the and can run express in Manhattan.  Extending the to run along the line to Bay Ridge wouldn't be a bad idea since the runs like garbage.  In any event some trains do provide rush hour service along the Sea Beach Line which is a start.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, a train can be taken out of service because of equipment problems, a passenger can need medical attention, a track issue could cause one or two trains to need to be rerouted: literally dozens of unplanned issues could cause a sporadic long wait during rush hour

 

Especially on a line that's duplicated it's entire route. YES - the B is among the first to get cut if there's an issue. Because it's duplicated. 

 

But if you honestly think that this is the result of a secret cost cutting conspiracy - you're a moron. There's no other way around that. It is the least likely of the possible causes. 

It's not necessarily a "conspiracy".  They already admitted to doing it with buses and I posted the link with the source.  Driver calls out sick, the bus isn't replaced because they cut back on personnel to fill in.  That's an underhanded cut and it saves them money over the course of the year when done enough times. Just because the logistics for the subway is more complex doesn't mean that it can't happen.  You're the ignorant one if you believe that it can't.  Never underestimate the .  They care about costs and cutting them as much as possible and they are under severe pressure politically to cut costs.  

[HenryB]

As someone who used the Broadway Line for all six years under the pattern, I respectfully disagree. 

 

However, I’m not going to protest that much, because the   doesn’t make service worse, it just doesn’t change anything. I didn’t see any issues with the ’10-’16 plan, other than the fact that both the   and the   had to cross-over. Really, there is only room for one line to cross-over. 

 

I think short turning some  ’s at Canal and increasing service along 4th/Sea Beach makes the most sense, but, again, it doesn’t keep me up at night.....

 

 

That was a major issue causing delay on Broadway during rush hours. That's why we had some Ns running express in the morning to (try to) resolve the problem