Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[darkstar8983]

13 hours ago, RR503 said:

Whitehall had 10 tph  turning when Montague was down. Sure, that wasn’t the most efficient of operations, but it worked all the same. With new, well placed high speed switches surrounded by tangent track, 18th should be able to do at least that much. And if you place those switches especially well, you’d be able to keep a  waiting to terminate out of the way of s/b s. That’d be quite nice to have, as not only would the fumigation issue at Church be eliminated, but also you’d be all but guaranteed to not have cascading terminal congestion issues at all, given that at least one  could ‘hide’ out of the way of  traffic. 

A good investment, IMO

Actually the  when it was split only ran 8 TPH which whitehall St had trouble turning during rush hours (especially AM) and a couple of those s terminated at Canal St and reversed there using the lower level of City Hall. During the PM, the  only used 7-7.5 TPH

[CenSin]

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Actually the  when it was split only ran 8 TPH which whitehall St had trouble turning during rush hours (especially AM) and a couple of those s terminated at Canal St and reversed there using the lower level of City Hall. During the PM, the  only used 7-7.5 TPH

I’m surprised that any trains were terminating at Canal Street. The fumigation process must have delayed trains worse, no?

[Union Tpke]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:19 PM, Around the Horn said:

Just a random thought looking at some of the MTA crowding analysis, how hard would it be to add additional  short turns between Bedford-Nostrand and Court Sq, there fore not having to make some  trains go express on Culver?

There will be 3 TPH ending at Bedford-Nostrand. Some  expresses were part of the plan. I don't know whether that has changed.

[Union Tpke]

21 hours ago, RR503 said:

From the north end of 18th to the south end of Ditmas you have about 1500 feet of straight track to work with. Thus, I see no reason why you couldn’t put a D 25 between the middle and n/b local directly north of the station. That’ll take you 200-300 feet at most, and create a simple yet efficient terminal for the  at low cost. You’d obviously remove the now-redundant switch near Ditmas as a part of this. 

Keep in mind they did this at both ends of 74th (those switches are signed for 25) with no ill effects. I see absolutely no reason why it couldn’t be done here. 

And remember, work is being done at Ditmas Interlocking.

Quote

Description: Modernize Signal Interlocking at Ditmas Avenue on the Culver Line

Category: Signals & Communications

Element: Signals & Communications

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/15_19/agencies/t/t7080307_project_narrative.htm

This project will modernize and improve the reliability of the Dit mas Avenue interlocking on the IND Culver Line in the borough of Brooklyn. Work will include replacement with a new conventional relay-based interlocking and the construction of new relay rooms to house all associated equipment. Some schedule dates are not available, due to project being under development.

 

[Union Tpke]

6 hours ago, CenSin said:

I’m surprised that any trains were terminating at Canal Street. The fumigation process must have delayed trains worse, no?

I remember being on one of those once. There was an  right behind it.

[RR503]

On 2/24/2018 at 9:50 AM, CenSin said:

The switches will fit (not arguing that), but is there enough of a buffer zone for a pocket track to be viable? Knowing the MTA to be safety-crazed, would they allow another train to be so close to the switch while another crosses up ahead?

We allow it at most terminals (WTC  comes to mind) so why not here? Maybe they'd put a GT to make themselves feel better, but still, it'd make for a useful asset. 

23 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Actually the  when it was split only ran 8 TPH which whitehall St had trouble turning during rush hours (especially AM) and a couple of those s terminated at Canal St and reversed there using the lower level of City Hall. During the PM, the  only used 7-7.5 TPH

Thanks for the correction. That said, Whitehall is D 10 entering IIRC, and has that ugly curve/hill combo south of Whitehall. 18th would be D 20 inbound, with straight track on both sides, and D 25 outbound, with straight track. That'd allow trains to clear a lot faster, increasing terminal throughput. 

And once again, why can't the MTA just have T/Os wait to take trains back out? That'd vastly increase capacity at all terminals. 

[P3F]

2 hours ago, Vtrain said:

I hope that the Brooklyn F train express plan is still on with the added G train service (if some don't terminate at Bedford/Nostrand Av)

15 TPH will run on the .

3 of those will end at Bedford Nostrand.

12 TPH will turn on the Culver Line.

12 TPH is way too much to fumigate while maintaining 14  trains per hour (and no matter what you do, 18 Av isn't going to turn all 12 of them).

Therefore, logically they will run at least some trains via upper Culver express. Or split the between two or three Culver terminals, although that could result in uneven headways.

[R68OnBroadway]

27 minutes ago, P3F said:

15 TPH will run on the .

3 of those will end at Bedford Nostrand.

12 TPH will turn on the Culver Line.

12 TPH is way too much to fumigate while maintaining 14  trains per hour (and no matter what you do, 18 Av isn't going to turn all 12 of them).

Therefore, logically they will run at least some trains via upper Culver express. Or split the between two or three Culver terminals, although that could result in uneven headways.

If you added 20 mph switches at Kings Highway and 18th, could you terminate trains there?

[P3F]

19 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

If you added 20 mph switches at Kings Highway and 18th, could you terminate trains there?

6 TPH to 18 Av & 6 TPH to Kings Highway? Scheduling would be uber weird, but it could work. 

I would take the a lot more if they do that... Transferring from a to an at Church Av with the current setup is an experience that makes me wonder why I even put up with Culver and its BS in the first place.

[BreeddekalbL]

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/3/2/17068008/greenwich-village-l-train-shutdown-lawsuit

In a way they are right cause the city cant come in and rip up their streets for bikes etc 

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/3/2/17068008/greenwich-village-l-train-shutdown-lawsuit

In a way they are right cause the city cant come in and rip up their streets for bikes etc 

You have to wonder if they are going to sue to demand the MTA keep the running between 1st and 8th Avenue, 

[Lawrence St]

Will the use the spare R143 units from the during the shutdown?

[VIP]

28 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Will the use the spare R143 units from the during the shutdown?

No. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

You have to wonder if they are going to sue to demand the MTA keep the running between 1st and 8th Avenue, 

They can certainly try. Doesn’t mean a judge is going to side with them. All the MTA’s legal eagles have to do is show the judge the track maps for the  line. Then he/she will see exactly how impossible it would be to maintain the few  shuttles, plus repair both Canarsie tubes at the same time with no storage yard on the Manhattan side. 

Of course, you all know what would really make this a non-issue? If we already had an  extension to Secaucus with a yard on the Jersey side of the Hudson 😂 

(Sorry, I just couldn’t resist throwing that in here...)

Edited March 3, 2018 by T to Dyre Avenue

[CenSin]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They can certainly try. Doesn’t mean a judge is going to side with them. All the MTA’s legal eagles have to do is show the judge the track maps for the  line. Then he/she will see exactly how impossible it would be to maintain the few  shuttles, plus repair both Canarsie tubes at the same time with no storage yard on the Manhattan side. 

Of course, you all know what would really make this a non-issue? If we already had an  extension to Secaucus with a yard on the Jersey side of the Hudson 😂 

(Sorry, I just couldn’t resist throwing that in here...)

The judge will order the MTA to create a yard and to build it right under NIMBY property.

[VIP]

7 hours ago, Vtrain said:

Will the G train use the R179 that were supposed to go to the C line?

Too early to tell. Coney Island crew would have to be trained. I would not be surprised if East New York sent Coney Island their R160A-1’s for the  

[Jsunflyguy]

4 hours ago, VIP said:

Too early to tell. Coney Island crew would have to be trained. I would not be surprised if East New York sent Coney Island their R160A-1’s for the  

Trained? 

Rumor has it the R179 training is a TSS rides along and says "looks good" and then you do the other half solo hoping for the best. lol

[Eric B]

Moving Walkway at Court Square Will Be Removed, Stairs Widened, for L Train Shutdown

https://licpost.com/moving-walkway-court-square-will-removed-stairs-widened-l-train-shutdown

[kosciusko]

15 minutes ago, Eric B said:

Moving Walkway at Court Square Will Be Removed

Why? It increases passenger flow.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, kosciusko said:

Why? It increases passenger flow.

At least in the PM rush, its dead space that takes up room from people flowing in both directions

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

At least in the PM rush, its dead space that takes up room from people flowing in both directions

Another reason I have an OOS transfer between Fulton on the and Atlantic-Barclays on the  

I would be wanting to have as many people as possible go the other way on the  as I still think Court Square is going to be a disaster.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

Another reason I have an OOS transfer between Fulton on the and Atlantic-Barclays on the  

I would be wanting to have as many people as possible go the other way on the  as I still think Court Square is going to be a disaster.

I've been doing that particular transfer myself recently with my 30 day, and my goodness its so easy... Literally one short block then around the corner one long block from Fulton to the Hanson Place entrance on the . 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

It sounds like it’s way easier than the OOS transfer between the  at Lexington/63rd and the  at Lexington/59th. It certainly looks like it is. Maybe they should implement that as a MetroCard transfer. If it ends up being popular enough, then they should look into some sort of full transfer from the  at Fulton to the Atlantic-Barclays complex for the long term. It looks like a relatively short transfer from the  to the . The other lines at Atlantic-Barclays may be a different story, however. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by T to Dyre Avenue

[P3F]

31 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

It sounds like it’s way easier than the OOS transfer between the  at Lexington/63rd and the  at Lexington/59th. It certainly looks like it is. Maybe they should implement that as a MetroCard transfer. If it ends up being popular enough, then they should look into some sort of full transfer from the  at Fulton to the Atlantic-Barclays complex for the long term. It looks like a relatively short transfer from the  to the . The other lines at Atlantic-Barclays may be a different story, however. 

I've done both walks, and personally I think the Lexington one is definitely shorter/easier.

[kosciusko]

It's a bit of a hike between the Fulton  to Atlantic, but I think they should implement an OOS transfer during the Canarsie shutdown. It's pretty criminal how many transfers the  misses.