Sparen of Iria Posted November 5, 2015 Share #1976 Posted November 5, 2015 What are the details of the law that forces potential rail-car makers to have plants in New York? Can certain parts be made elsewhere in the country? What are the legal and technical limits of the law, and are there any workarounds that would allow the MTA to use other railcar makers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTransitFan Posted November 7, 2015 Share #1977 Posted November 7, 2015 No 2016-2017 is when the first R179s suppose to come. The R32s is staying until the R211s. They are expected to be delivered by 2018, actually. And could wipe out all the R42's with the R179 order and replace some of the R32's. I really hope they don't delay it again...My head is gonna explode if they do. MTA needs these trains on the tracks already. Bombardier has been making up delaying excuses for the R179's. They were supposed to enter service in 2011, and then got pushed to 2015, and then around 2018. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewYorkElevated Posted November 7, 2015 Share #1978 Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) With the financial turmoil the company is currently embedded in, the MTA would be wise to expand their list of car builders and move away from Bombardier. While both they and Kawasaki are familiar with the transit system, it doesn't do anyone any good if they can't deliver, nor does it help if there's only one viable option for car builders. Bombardier's production problems go way beyond the 179 order and I'd rather the MTA not just default to one builder, if not for anything else, for the sake of reasonable bids. We cannot afford price gouging because of a monopoly. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the MTA hasn't joined the TTC and announce any type of legal action against Bombardier for failure to deliver a product within a reasonable amount of time. Kawasaki has managed to deliver their cars within a couple of years at most of winning the bid for purchase, even if there were a few minor hiccups. Bombardier has had the project since 2012 and we won't see the first car until late next year at the very earliest. If legal action is actually taken, what happens? Does the have to find another subway car manufacturer. Because I have stated in the past there are other subway car builders out there than just Bombardier and Kawasaki. Edited November 7, 2015 by TheNewYorkElevated 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted November 7, 2015 Share #1979 Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) If anything happens and the MTA changes the manufacturer, chances are it might go to Alstom as the MTA would probably like to save a bigger order (R211) for a better company like Kawasaki. Because from what it looks like the R179 order may not be complete by the time the first R211 rolls out. Edited November 7, 2015 by IAlam 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted November 8, 2015 Share #1980 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) I haven't posted here in a while, but I would be surprised if Bombardier builds a single car from this order. Their financial problems, primarily from their aviation division (delays in the CSeries plane) have left the controlling family seeking a buyer or merger partner, or perhaps a sale of the transportation division. Bombardier could be bankrupt by next year. (See http://www.fool.ca/2015/08/14/is-bombardier-inc-really-headed-to-bankruptcy/ for more on that.) Now, as for suing Bombardier, again, bankruptcy could complicate that. Edited November 8, 2015 by aemoreira81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted November 8, 2015 Share #1981 Posted November 8, 2015 I haven't posted here in a while, but I would be surprised if Bombardier builds a single car from this order. Their financial problems, primarily from their aviation division (delays in the CSeries plane) have left the controlling family seeking a buyer or merger partner, or perhaps a sale of the transportation division. Bombardier could be bankrupt by next year. (See http://www.fool.ca/2015/08/14/is-bombardier-inc-really-headed-to-bankruptcy/ for more on that.) Now, as for suing Bombardier, again, bankruptcy could complicate that.Not only did they delay the R179s but the planes they are making are also pushed back some dates? Smh... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1982 Posted November 9, 2015 Give them a break guys, no one is perfect in the world. Like with the R142's, when they were late, Bombardier managed to fix their problems a little bit after. Don't give up on them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1983 Posted November 9, 2015 They are being paid to deliver a product. If they can't make good on the deliveries, they don't deserve the money from future contracts. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1984 Posted November 9, 2015 They are being paid to deliver a product. If they can't make good on the deliveries, they don't deserve the money from future contracts. this is what happened to Pullman Standard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1985 Posted November 9, 2015 I think Pullman Standard went bankrupt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1986 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I think Pullman Standard went bankrupt. yes, as a result of the car order from fines. Bombardier should be given fines. Edited November 9, 2015 by Union Tpke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 9, 2015 Share #1987 Posted November 9, 2015 Pullman should have stuck to making PCCs and railway cars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1988 Posted November 12, 2015 Give them a break guys, no one is perfect in the world. Like with the R142's, when they were late, Bombardier managed to fix their problems a little bit after. Don't give up on them.That is not even the point. The product is still late, things like that hurt your reputation a lot especially if you are dealing with a big company like the MTA which is the biggest in the country. I'm surprised the R32s lasted this long without falling over there MDBF is lower than the R42s now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R404377 Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1989 Posted November 12, 2015 I know the R32 is getting another SMS but I have heard nothing about the R42's getting one. Can anyone clarify? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1990 Posted November 12, 2015 I know the R32 is getting another SMS but I have heard nothing about the R42's getting one. Can anyone clarify? The base order of the R179 fleet will retire the remaining 50 R42s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1991 Posted November 12, 2015 Aw, so when the first 10 R179's arrive then 10 R42's will retire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1992 Posted November 12, 2015 Aw, so when the first 10 R179's arrive then 10 R42's will retire?It depends if it is a 4 or a 5 car set that arrives first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 12, 2015 Share #1993 Posted November 12, 2015 I mean the R42s are a very small fleet anyway, so of course the doesn't care about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R404377 Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1994 Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) What gets me though is what New Flyer 230 said. The R42, in their decrepit looking state still have a better MDBF rate than the R32's... I mean, I know the R32's are five years older but they just recently had an SMS in 2013....Personally, I think they should at least give the R42's some dignity and paint them until the R179 comes in which is still a good while away. Edited November 13, 2015 by R404377 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1995 Posted November 13, 2015 How much miles do the R32s can go without breaking down nowadays? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R62AR33 Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1996 Posted November 13, 2015 That is not even the point. The product is still late, things like that hurt your reputation a lot especially if you are dealing with a big company like the MTA which is the biggest in the country. I'm surprised the R32s lasted this long without falling over there MDBF is lower than the R42s now. It Goes to Show How Good Budd Really built the R32s back in 1963 , these new company's are no where near as good as like Budd , St Louis were It's sad Bombardier have always been known to deliver their products late dating back to the R62As. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1997 Posted November 13, 2015 Bombardier encountered considerable delays with the R62A order, but they ultimately completed the delivery on time. This was accomplished by putting in 2 or 3 times as many cars into service in one fell swoop as expected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon2305 Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1998 Posted November 13, 2015 Bombardier encountered considerable delays with the R62A order, but they ultimately completed the delivery on time. This was accomplished by putting in 2 or 3 times as many cars into service in one fell swoop as expected. If Im not mistaken, the span of the R62A delivery order was give or take 3 to 4 years. By 89' the R62As where assigned to their respective routes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 13, 2015 Share #1999 Posted November 13, 2015 If Im not mistaken, the span of the R62A delivery order was give or take 3 to 4 years. By 89' the R62As where assigned to their respective routes. You are wrong - the R62A order was complete by 1987. There was some shuffling around of car fleets initially, but, as per NYCSubway: Bombardier continued to get cars into service in decreasing frequency, until on October 22, 1987 all 825 cars had been accepted. Bombardier had reached the original delivery goals set in early 1984, but only by putting two or sometimes three times as many cars in service per month than were originally called for. As the newest cars came in on the #1 (2160-2475) the older ones were moved in various groups to the #3. By September, the future #3 cars (without Vapor door controls) were in relative disuse on the #1, only waiting for yard space at Livonia Yard to be transferred to the #3. At last, on October 29, all of the cars were in their final route assignments:#1: Cars 1687, 1886, 1894 and 2160-2475 (319) all with Vapor door oontrols. #3: Cars 1907-2159 (253), to be modified with Vapor door controls in 1988. #6: Cars 1651-1686; 1688-1885, 1887-1893 and 1895-1906, to be joined by 1687, 1886 and 1894 when they are modfied with Vapor door control in 1988. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon2305 Posted November 13, 2015 Share #2000 Posted November 13, 2015 Well thats information from NYCSubway.org that I sometimes don't rely on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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