SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Storm]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Jesus, I was riding one of ENY's R160's on the and one of the cars had HORRIBLE brakes to the point where the sound of the brakes alone was enough to make your ears hurt, not to mention the horrible rough ride to.

Feel bad for you. One day I was riding an R160  train. When it braked, everyone on the train was covering their ears. Might've been the same train.

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I still can not tell the difference between an R62 and an R62A, except for the dirt (cause 207th St never deep cleans the front of the R62A's).

The only way I can tell is because the R62's run on the  and the A's run on the .

As for the R68's, there is really no way of knowing (I might be wrong though) what the difference is. The 68's run on the ; (there is 1 R68/A that runs on the  during PM rush hour). On the NTT's, I tell by the propulsions. The R142's, R160A's, R160B-1's, and R160C's (cuomo) have *almost* the same propulsion. The R160B-2 has a part of the R142A propulsion in it. The R142A, R143, and R188 have the same propulsion. The R179's have a seperate propulsion.

7 hours ago, brakethrow said:

When the R160s arrived more than a decade ago (damn time flew) I didn't think it could get any smoother.

It wouldn't have. The  screwed up that order. @subwaycommuter1983 and I are hoping that the R211 order goes more smoothly. 

[biGC323232]

7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Jesus, I was riding one of ENY's R160's on the and one of the cars had HORRIBLE brakes to the point where the sound of the brakes alone was enough to make your ears hurt, not to mention the horrible rough ride to.

Probably brake dust happens to me from time to time....The rough ride i cant speak for...

[R10 2952]

13 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I still can not tell the difference between an R62 and an R62A, except for the dirt (cause 207th St never deep cleans the front of the R62A's).

Aside from the car numbers, main difference is propulsion- R62s are GE and R62As are Westinghouse.  That and the R62s are the last type of subway car with the old lighting setup, which is why the lights go out over third-rail gaps.

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Jesus, I was riding one of ENY's R160's on the and one of the cars had HORRIBLE brakes to the point where the sound of the brakes alone was enough to make your ears hurt, not to mention the horrible rough ride to.

That's certainly unusual, normally it was the R32s on the  that had the worst brakes.  How things have changed LOL....

[Vulturious]

3 hours ago, Storm said:

Feel bad for you. One day I was riding an R160  train. When it braked, everyone on the train was covering their ears. Might've been the same train.

The only way I can tell is because the R62's run on the  and the A's run on the .

As for the R68's, there is really no way of knowing (I might be wrong though) what the difference is. The 68's run on the ; (there is 1 R68/A that runs on the  during PM rush hour). On the NTT's, I tell by the propulsions. The R142's, R160A's, R160B-1's, and R160C's (cuomo) have *almost* the same propulsion. The R160B-2 has a part of the R142A propulsion in it. The R142A, R143, and R188 have the same propulsion. The R179's have a seperate propulsion.

It wouldn't have. The  screwed up that order. @subwaycommuter1983 and I are hoping that the R211 order goes more smoothly. 

Wait a minute, I swear I saw a video about this issue, but it wasn't an R160 that had that issue, it was an R143. Maybe from a different time, but I do remember it was an R143.

It's really not that hard to tell the difference from an R68 to an R68A. The biggest visual difference comes from the window where the rollsign is located. It is a full glass pane while on the R68, it isn't. 

As you can see, if it wasn't thanks to this filter, you can clearly see the rollsign window isn't a full glass pane window. You can also see how the front route bullet rollsigns look, Concourse actually has their rollsigns positioned lower while Coney Island's are higher position, but there is a bit of an empty space you can see on the bottom which is an R68. The R68A is always positioned higher, but there is no empty space on the bottom which you can tell is an R68A. 

There are other noticeable differences such as how the rollsign on the interior looks like, the R68 has their sticking out, while the R68A doesn't. There's also the storm doors, but I can't remember how they look like. You can also hear from their propulsions, the R68 sounds the most similar to the R46's but honestly much better, the R68A sounds most similar to the older SMEE's like the R32, R40S/M, and R42.

Now as for the NTT's, it's really easy to tell them apart other than from just their propulsions unlike the R68/A's. The R142 and R142A being the most different from each other. The R142 have alstom propulsions of course, but there's also the front face and back face. There is a line on top of the R142 on the front and back face which you can clearly see while on the R142A, there isn't a much more cleaner design compared to the R142 imo. There's also the front windows on the R142 that look to be sticking out unlike the R142A. 

There's not really much differences from the R142A and the R188 since a good chunk of the R142A were converted to R188. There are new R188's that were built, but even then there's still not really much difference, if not at all.

The R143 compared to the R160's in general actually have more than just a flag placement difference. The doors on the B end of the cars are single on the R143 unlike the R160's, but there is also the Overhead which has a white cover found also on the A division NTT's, but black on any newer car models of B division NTT's. 

There are technically 4 different R160's, but to be honest it's more like 3. The R160A-1 and R160A-2 are both built by Alstom and are the same, only difference is that the R160A-1 are the 4 car configuration and the other is the 5 car configuration. Both can be coupled to work together, I have seen videos of a 9 car R160 which was the 4 car and 5 car coupled being tested. Now compared to the R160B, the only other difference you can tell are the door motors. The R160B-1 and R160B-2 have only 1 difference which is their propulsions, the R160B-1 being the Alstom Onix propulsion and the R160B-2 being the Siemens. You mistook the Siemens propulsions having part of its sound coming from the R142A, but they aren't, the propulsions on those trains are Bombardier.

Now as for the R179, there are a lot of differences. First off, the R179 looks more fatter compared to the R160's, the front face doesn't have that black part extending further than the edge on the top unlike the R160's and other NTT's. The propulsions sound similar to the R142A, R143, and R188 since it sounds to be an upgraded version, although it sounds much more annoying compared to the Alstom Propulsion. There are the different door motors which I'm not going to lie, sounds pretty satisfying compared to the the R160A's. The B end of the car's exterior have indents all over except for the edges. The side LED signs looks to be more narrower compared to the R160 and the interior Overhead is more wider with newer LED's. There's not much other differences, but the FIND's LCD screen panel has their texts much larger compared to the R160's FIND.

This is pretty much all the difference that I can point out. So if anyone here still doesn't know how to tell the difference between a few difference trains, here you go. I might've missed a few details, so please add on or call me out on some of the details I said.

[Storm]

14 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

The R143 compared to the R160's in general actually have more than just a flag placement difference. The doors on the B end of the cars are single on the R143 unlike the R160's, but there is also the Overhead which has a white cover found also on the A division NTT's, but black on any newer car models of B division NTT's. 

 

Don't forget the advertising on the R143's. The R160's don't have them. But I was pretty sure the train I took was an R160 because of the alstom propulsion.

Anyway, i'm going to bring up a few new topics. Feel free to add on.

Is Coney Island yard protected? If not, when will they start? Because I read about it in "Projects."

Vaccines are coming out, so when will ridership take a turning point?

They're making a new subway map. I am afraid it will be really confusing.

Future of CBTC- when will each line get it? [(1st , 2nd ?) Pretty sure will be , but that wont happen until R262's are delivered, or R142's from the  go to westchester]

 

[MeeP15-9112]

30 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

There are new R188's that were built, but even then there's still not really much difference, if not at all.

The only difference that is most evident between R188s and R142As is the font used on the external numberboards. 
In the image above, 7219 is a converted R142A, while 7899 is a R188 C car built brand new.

The font used on the numberboard of 7219 (presumably Standard) is the same font used on all R142As (including the converted sets)

The font used on the numberboard of 7899 (presumably Helvetica) is the same font used in all R188s, and is similar to the font used on the majority of R160s.

Other than that one difference, the R188s externally look exactly like R142A.

[MHV9218]

Easy hacks that don't require an obsessive compulsive font analysis (something I am personally guilty of):

R142A vs. R188 - LED interior lighting

R142 vs. R142 - size of RFW

 

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, Storm said:

Don't forget the advertising on the R143's. The R160's don't have them. But I was pretty sure the train I took was an R160 because of the alstom propulsion.

Anyway, i'm going to bring up a few new topics. Feel free to add on.

Is Coney Island yard protected? If not, when will they start? Because I read about it in "Projects."

Vaccines are coming out, so when will ridership take a turning point?

They're making a new subway map. I am afraid it will be really confusing.

Future of CBTC- when will each line get it? [(1st , 2nd ?) Pretty sure will be , but that wont happen until R262's are delivered, or R142's from the  go to westchester]

 

I forgot about the advertisement LED signs, but the R160B's have LCD advertisement signs. Remember, there are other differences than just the propulsion, I did say R143's have single doors on the B end of cars unlike other NTT's which have double doors.

What exactly do you mean by protected? Recently, Coney Island underwent flood protection which stopped  trains from accessing Coney Island, that project has since been completed for a good few months already. Although, I have a feeling you mean something else.

Ridership will increase once there are no more cases of COVID, even with the vaccine to help with that, it will still take at least a year or 2 until we see pre-pandemic ridership. Although, I've been seeing lots of people crowding subways and thanks to what the  is currently facing, I think it's more about service frequency.

If you're talking about the new map found at the opening of an old entrance at Nostrand Av, I think the  are just testing out new maps. Personally, I loved the maps during the late 80's and 90's.

I'm going to point out something you said that will not happen and that is the R142's from the  going to Westchester. That cannot and will not happen as the  and  share a yard which means they share the same equipment. It's why you see both the  and  on the same strip map. You also have to take into account of how many R62A's would need to be swapped so the  can be 100% NTT's. 
Now about CBTC, 8th Av is supposed to be first, although the  loves to change their minds like trying to pick a restaurant to eat dinner at. Since the R211A's are coming in very soon, they should be the first line to get CBTC. But like I said, they love to change their mind so I cannot give a definitive answer. Maybe someone else has those answers.

[Calvin]

2 hours ago, Storm said:

Don't forget the advertising on the R143's. The R160's don't have them. But I was pretty sure the train I took was an R160 because of the alstom propulsion.

Anyway, i'm going to bring up a few new topics. Feel free to add on.

Is Coney Island yard protected? If not, when will they start? Because I read about it in "Projects."

Vaccines are coming out, so when will ridership take a turning point?

They're making a new subway map. I am afraid it will be really confusing.

Future of CBTC- when will each line get it? [(1st , 2nd ?) Pretty sure will be , but that wont happen until R262's are delivered, or R142's from the  go to westchester]

 

Some of the 5-car R160s out of Jamaica Yard have advertising while 1/2 have the artwork that's regular to the entire R160 order. They have an antenna with the big screens on-board each car. 

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Vulturious said:

I'm going to point out something you said that will not happen and that is the R142's from the  going to Westchester. That cannot and will not happen as the  and  share a yard which means they share the same equipment. It's why you see both the  and  on the same strip map. You also have to take into account of how many R62A's would need to be swapped so the  can be 100% NTT's. 
Now about CBTC, 8th Av is supposed to be first, although the  loves to change their minds like trying to pick a restaurant to eat dinner at. Since the R211A's are coming in very soon, they should be the first line to get CBTC. But like I said, they love to change their mind so I cannot give a definitive answer. Maybe someone else has those answers.

I agree if we're talking about the R62As. For the R262s, however, I expect uniformity to kick in, which would probably lead to the  and  splitting the difference in WPR's R142s (the latter could possibly get a few of Jerome's and whatever's left of the R262s after WPR and Jerome take, not counting the ones dedicated to shuttle service).

[NewFlyer 230]

16 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Jesus, I was riding one of ENY's R160's on the and one of the cars had HORRIBLE brakes to the point where the sound of the brakes alone was enough to make your ears hurt, not to mention the horrible rough ride to.

That is ENY for ya haha. Minus the car length difference and fleet numbers I can easily tell a ENY R160 from the other yards with R160s  because of how dirty the cars tend to look. Even though Jamaica isn’t the best their R160s look much better than ENY’s.

I really wish they would give those R143’s a nice deep cleaning where the exteriors are shining, the light casings are cleaned and etc. 

[Storm]

4 hours ago, Vulturious said:

If you're talking about the new map found at the opening of an old entrance at Nostrand Av, I think the  are just testing out new maps. Personally, I loved the maps during the late 80's and 90's.

 

Personally, I hated them, but that is my own opinion.

4 hours ago, Vulturious said:

What exactly do you mean by protected? Recently, Coney Island underwent flood protection which stopped  trains from accessing Coney Island, that project has since been completed for a good few months already. Although, I have a feeling you mean something else.

 

https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/coneyislandyard/project.

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

That is ENY for ya haha. Minus the car length difference and fleet numbers I can easily tell a ENY R160 from the other yards with R160s  because of how dirty the cars tend to look. Even though Jamaica isn’t the best their R160s look much better than ENY’s.

I really wish they would give those R143’s a nice deep cleaning where the exteriors are shining, the light casings are cleaned and etc. 

I really wish ALL of the cars @ Eny would get a deep cleaning. The R160's there don't look like R160's anymore. They look like the OTT's on the . 

1 hour ago, Lex said:

I agree if we're talking about the R62As. For the R262s, however, I expect uniformity to kick in, which would probably lead to the  and  splitting the difference in WPR's R142s (the latter could possibly get a few of Jerome's and whatever's left of the R262s after WPR and Jerome take, not counting the ones dedicated to shuttle service).

The 262's are for the . See, I think the base order will go to the . The R142/A's from the  would go to the  in exchange for the 262's going to the , because of ridership on Lexington. the  would get the leftovers.

 

[Calvin]

https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/2/23/22298307/transit-workers-push-back-at-mtas-extended-c-and-f-train-cuts?fbclid=IwAR21kgiJhPqyLiGvlGGcy7dv5PcEiOhPPk-FyzdoRxTFBG5lRqihg9s1vjk

With the  train headways reduced on weekdays, riders are seeing more crowding on trains compared to when they have short turn trains to/from Kings Highway. 

[4 via Mosholu]

15 hours ago, Storm said:

The 262's are for the . See, I think the base order will go to the . The R142/A's from the  would go to the  in exchange for the 262's going to the , because of ridership on Lexington. the  would get the leftovers.

What are you saying? The 262 is meant for the train, the train, the local and the 42 Street . It is the R142 from Wakefield and East 180 Street that is going to go to the train, and the train is going to run a mixed 142 and 142A fleet coming from Mosholu. In fact, I believe the train is going to get a piece of the 262 as well to replace its mixed 142 and 142A.

[Calvin]

Coney Island Yard is starting to get work done on the R46 class cars they have. 5678-5681 has the front and back repainted in white (silver) and deep washed in the body of the 4-cars.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Calvin

[R10 2952]

18 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Coney Island Yard is starting to get work done on the R46 class cars they have. 5678-5681 has the front and back repainted in white and deep washed in the body of the 4-cars.

Do you mean silver? Because they don't normally use white paint..

[Calvin]

11 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Do you mean silver? Because they don't normally use white paint..

Yes, my mistake on that one. It was on a cloudy day 

[Lex]

18 hours ago, Storm said:

The 262's are for the . See, I think the base order will go to the . The R142/A's from the  would go to the  in exchange for the 262's going to the , because of ridership on Lexington. the  would get the leftovers.

 

What business does the  have getting the R262s? For that matter, is the  chopped liver or something?

[Lawrence St]

39 minutes ago, Lex said:

What business does the  have getting the R262s? For that matter, is the  chopped liver or something?

Because after the , it is the 2nd busiest Manhattan local in the system.

[Around the Horn]

4 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

What are you saying? The 262 is meant for the train, the train, the local and the 42 Street . It is the R142 from Wakefield and East 180 Street that is going to go to the train, and the train is going to run a mixed 142 and 142A fleet coming from Mosholu. In fact, I believe the train is going to get a piece of the 262 as well to replace its mixed 142 and 142A.

This is close but not entirely accurate...

R262s are intended for the for Lex CBTC and (with the caveat that the and interline frequently); the and will get the rebuilt R142/As for 7th Av CBTC, whenever that happens and the seems destined for an R142/R262 mix. These were mentioned in the documents for all three projects (R262s, R142/A rebuilt and Lex CBTC) and I again stress that things are subject to change. 

[Lex]

26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Because after the , it is the 2nd busiest Manhattan local in the system.

And the R142s would somehow be insufficient?

[GojiMet86]

Does anyone know where I can find a Master map of the neighborhood maps? Is there even one publicly available? I'm interested in seeing the exact locations of stations, but I don't feel like downloading 460+ pdfs of individual stations.

[Lawrence St]

EDIT: Wrong section

Edited February 25, 2021 by Lawrence St

[R10 2952]

Delete

Edited February 27, 2021 by R10 2952

[Lawrence St]

Apparently some of the R42's are starting to be marked as scrap, this source is unverified but perhaps an worker can confirm?