SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[brakethrow]

Finally that viaduct project is complete. No more trains delaying 's coming into the junction.

Edited May 1, 2018 by brakethrow

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

34 minutes ago, brakethrow said:

Finally that viaduct project is complete. No more trains delaying 's coming into the junction.

You'll still have to deal with that one  train crossing in front of the  train you're on coming into Myrtle Avenue–Broadway on the Manhattan-bound track. Don't celebrate too soon.

[VIP]

5 hours ago, EphraimB said:

Interesting. There was someone that pissed me off on the train back to Far Rockaway today and I had to wait until the next stop, Broad Channel, to switch to the next car. If only the  would be all 60-footers then I wouldn't have to wait 3 minutes to switch cars.

Sucks for you. 

[VIP]

26 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

You'll still have to deal with that one  train crossing in front of the  train you're on coming into Myrtle Avenue–Broadway on the Manhattan-bound track. Don't celebrate too soon.

Now the  has more R42’s... I swear those cars are like roaches on that line. Very hard on the eyes. 

[biGC323232]

7 hours ago, VIP said:

Now the  has more R42’s... I swear those cars are like roaches on that line. Very hard on the eyes. 

Roaches.....I really hate them things...But in my opinion they should just moved those from ENY to pitkin already....Put those on the  for the remainder of their service lives

[EphraimB]

I have a new phrase when every side seat by the window is taken in a 75-footer (R46, R68) subway car: "This car is butted"

[VIP]

4 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

I have a new phrase when every side seat by the window is taken in a 75-footer (R46, R68) subway car: "This car is butted"

Lol 😂 

[VIP]

33 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Roaches.....I really hate them things...But in my opinion they should just moved those from ENY to pitkin already....Put those on the  for the remainder of their service lives

Agreed, give those savages some more 60ft cars. They’ll be thankful. 

[kosciusko]

9 hours ago, VIP said:

Now the  has more R42’s... I swear those cars are like roaches on that line. Very hard on the eyes. 

I disagree, I think there is something charming about them, they keep running even after all the beating they have taken over the years, they are very stoic. Same with the r32s.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 hours ago, VIP said:

Now the  has more R42’s... I swear those cars are like roaches on that line. Very hard on the eyes. 

 

4 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Roaches.....I really hate them things...But in my opinion they should just moved those from ENY to pitkin already....Put those on the  for the remainder of their service lives

Well if you had the newer cars from the  they would be very hard on your nose.  Those cars stink like hell. I don't think a mop has touched those cars in God knows when.

[R68OnBroadway]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

Well if you had the newer cars from the  they would be very hard on your nose.  Those cars stink like hell. I don't think a mop has touched those cars in God knows when.

207 must really only like the museum trains as the R160s on the  are already disgusting and worn. I rode one from 81st to 42nd a few days ago and every time it braked it would screech as loud, if not louder, than a R32. ENY's 32s and 42s are bad but a lot of times not as bad as the 207th street cars...

[trainfan22]

I'm at West 4th right now, I'm waiting for the and an 68A pulls in!!! I'm like oh yeah I'm gonna ride an 68A train home... then the damn thing gets taken out of service due to door trouble smh.

[VIP]

3 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

207 must really only like the museum trains as the R160s on the  are already disgusting and worn. I rode one from 81st to 42nd a few days ago and every time it braked it would screech as loud, if not louder, than a R32. ENY's 32s and 42s are bad but a lot of times not as bad as the 207th street cars...

East New York has the BEST performing R32’s. 207 Street’s maintenance is starting to deplete.  Especially when it comes to washing their cars. 

[Brillant93]

They did a random bag check thing at Coney Island Stillwell Avenue station. But they took a sample of my bag like swiped something. 

[KK 6 Ave Local]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

I'm at West 4th right now, I'm waiting for the and an 68A pulls in!!! I'm like oh yeah I'm gonna ride an 68A train home... then the damn thing gets taken out of service due to door trouble smh.

1 set of R68as on the  this unlucky ducky gets it.. i feel bad for you but worse for the  train riders such as myself

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by KK 6 Ave Local
why not xd

[KK 6 Ave Local]

23 hours ago, Calvin said:

Most random post ever posted but saw a racoon today at Prospect Park eating potato chip crumbs on the Melbourne tracks

Melbourne? you mean Malbone? 

[KK 6 Ave Local]

23 hours ago, boweryboy said:

It was hysterical watching so many passengers this morning at Kosciuszko not get on the , expecting an  to come next. Read the damn signs! Hipsters...I wanted to get out and shake everyone.

They must have thought the 30th was the last day of service there and didn't care for the signs. Turns out it was gonna end on the 29th (ended up being the 27th)

[trainfan22]

39 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

1 set of R68as on the  this unlucky ducky gets it.. i feel bad for you but worse for the  train riders such as myself

 

 

I love the 68A's, I have fond memories of them when they was dominant fleet on the  in the mid 2000s, got me to school reliably a countless number of times.

 

 

With that being said, the  right behind it was an 32, which is just as cool to me, but I didn't ride it cause it was packed like sardines (I took the  home instead) its funny as once the train pulled in a whole lot of sighs and grunts due to that fact that the train was crushloaded BEFORE the doors opened at West 4th. When I saw it was an 32 I couldn't but to laugh, younger train breaks down and now all these riders gonna squeeze in a 50 plus year old train to get home😀

 

 

 

[Q43LTD]

So after the shutdown is over in say summer 2020, the M14 SBS will remain "in some capacity" according to the  webiste

[KK 6 Ave Local]

On 5/1/2018 at 9:20 AM, EphraimB said:

I have a new phrase when every side seat by the window is taken in a 75-footer (R46, R68) subway car: "This car is butted"

And when you find a 75-fter and have to ride it: "I have been butted"

[Calvin]

Was there a difference on the  with train traffic to/from Metropolitan Av compared to Broadway Junction on the  ?

[S78 via Hylan]

4 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Was there a difference on the  with train traffic to/from Metropolitan Av compared to Broadway Junction on the  ?

There was. At Broadway Junction, trains had only one track to turn, which delayed s waiting to get in and Queens bound  service. 

[Trainmaster5]

I have serious misgivings about this " plan " to re-work service on the Brooklyn IRT proposed by some members of the forum. All Seventh Avenue and service to Flatbush-Brooklyn College ? All Lexington Avenue and trains to Utica/ New Lots ? What, exactly is this supposed to accomplish if I may ask ? Has anyone who proposed this " plan " actually used this segment of the IRT before because it ignores the real world usage patterns completely. I'm basing my opinion on almost sixty years of riding the New Lots and Nostrand Avenue lines. I'll throw in 30 years of NYCT work experience, too. Starting when the first SMEE equipment appeared on the Dyre to New Lots line. Back when the ran to Utica during rush hours and the supplemented the service to the 'Bush during the rush. When there was no Lex service south of Atlantic middays. Back when I made the 3:45 put in from Atlantic or the 3:54 put in from Franklin. Over the years things improved and we got Lex service from Utica , meaning the Brooklyn IRT had express service besides the rush . Passengers from ENY, Brownsville, and eastern Crown Heights got a service improvement while Nostrand Avenue riders were left in the cold. They were subjected to the madhouse crowding at Franklin Avenue where n/b   and later, riders had to transfer to Lexington Avenue trains in addition to the ever present transfers by the New Lots and Utica people who had to endure the up and down move there to reach the Flatbush trains heading in the opposite direction. Don't overlook the fact that before any Lex service was provided mid day the Nevins Street station was the transfer point. All the newer service pattern did was move the transfer point, and crowding, to Franklin Avenue. Finally a service plan came out that every rider I encountered and my family and friends liked. The extension of the mid day from Bowling Green to Flatbush-Brooklyn College. Finally everyone on both branches had a choice, Seventh or Lexington service. The holy grail if you will. Now I see that some forum members want to remove that option. I thought I read somewhere that this proposal would speed up service because the wouldn't have to traverse the switches it now utilizes to get from President St to the n/b express track. That is something probably thought of by someone who glanced at a track map and never saw the interlocking plant even from a RFW. That interlocking is timed and always has been, whether your lineup is the local or express track heading into Franklin Avenue. T-I-M-E-D, heading n/b. Guess what ? Heading s/b toward Utica, Nostrand or President Street the interlocking is timed. If I'm operating a n/b Lexington train stopping at Kingston and Nostrand Avenues and I'm heading for the express track into Franklin Avenue I'm subject to the same timers as before and the n/b train at President St is going to have the same wait as it does today. Before someone suggests, or maybe I missed it, if that n/b train leaving Nostrand doesn't cross over before Franklin Avenue once that train leaves Atlantic on the local track, you guessed it, timers in effect to bring the train over to the n/b Lex tracks. Maybe there are other parts to the proposal that I've overlooked but operation-wise these are the limitations that I see offhand. BTW, if the Lexington line is the most utilized and desired by the ridership increased speed or capacity on the Seventh Avenue side is an exercise in futility if it doesn't improve their commute. Take this or from Flatbush to Times Square and transfer for the shuttle, , or , for example, sounds like something only a railfan would tell someone. Just my thoughts. No hard feelings if you don't agree with me. This is a discussion thread after all. Carry on.

[RR503]

When recently has this been brought up? 

Anyway, I think you're misidentifying the problem here. The issue with the current Rogers set up isn't slow speeds on the . It's the fact that that junction restricts A division express capacity moreso than any other single factor, and does so while making any issue on any of the served lines into an issue on all A div expresses.

I don't think I need to remind you that Rogers is currently maxed out. The fact that s have to make that diverging move across the  and s path puts a very real cap on the number of trains per hour any of those lines can run (a cap which extends to the  by merit of merging). And may I remind you that while the Lex corridor is pretty much saturated service wise (with platform crowding mitigation, you could maybe send an extra 1 or 2 tph up there before timing restricts you), the 7th avenue expresses can take another 4-6 tph of service over the rest of their routes -- if it wasn't for Rogers.

Moving beyond capacity, though, service through that junction is currently shit. It isn't just slow speed due to timers, or limited train frequency. It's that sitting in the tunnel waiting for a lineup through the interlocking is now such a quotidian event that we now schedule some  and  trips to have six minutes between Franklin and President. And remember, this is the MTA, where we never adjust schedules.

But even this seems to not be enough. I have a friend who commutes daily from Newkirk on the , and at least three times a week, she'll complain of waiting for more than five minutes coming into the junction for want of a lineup through it. But even beyond that, I'll sometimes hear of how something at 72nd St led to  service getting bunched, creating a parade of late local trains hogging lineups through Rogers, making the  have the same problem. It'd be one thing if this was some relatively low ridership corridor, but we're talking the  here. A gap of as little as 4 minutes on those lines can create platform crowding issues elsewhere on the corridor that so impact train service and customer experience that we sometimes have to bar entry to stations. If I could, I'd hermetically seal the . Those trains are f**king toxic. 

Now, in terms of mitigation, changing service patterns won't be enough. The crossover configuration means that even with the suggested setup, trains would still have to cross paths for that segment of track between the express/local crossover and the Nostrand diverge. For this to work, you'd have to at the very least install a new crossover beyond the Nostrand diverge so that whichever Lex service ends up serving Nostrand and Kingston can do so without interfering with  service. And about timers: don't regard them as absolutes. Many of those timers at Rogers should be either eliminated, raised, or converted to DGTs so their function better reflects their purpose and need. I don't think citing them as a reason for not implementing a service change is rational unless you can make the case that they all must stay, and that they will all sustain the same delay cascading/capacity restriction issues as today's interlined set up.

For more on potential junction design changes, I urge you to look at this:

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IRT-Nostrand-Junction-Report.pdf

Finally, customer preference. Yes. It's very important. I take two issues with your characterization, however. I first play don't think that Franklin will experience crowding that is in any way equivalent to that of our systems more packed stops. There simply is not the ridership to create it, especially not if trains are running with today's frequencies. Regardless, I think the larger issue many here and elsewhere have is that they only see the preferences of customers in the directly impacted area. We can't think like that. Yes, some will lose access to the precious Lex. But they'll simultaneously gain better, more frequent train service. And the literal millions who use these lines elsewhere in the city will benefit too. Their commutes on the  will be less insufferable than they are today as the effects of shorter headways and fewer delays play out across the system. In short, I think their preferences should be included too. 

[Trainmaster5]

8 minutes ago, RR503 said:

When recently has this been brought up? 

Anyway, I think you're misidentifying the problem here. The issue with the current Rogers set up isn't slow speeds on the . It's the fact that that junction restricts A division express capacity moreso than any other single factor, and does so while making any issue on any of the served lines into an issue on all A div expresses.

I don't think I need to remind you that Rogers is currently maxed out. The fact that s have to make that diverging move across the  and s path puts a very real cap on the number of trains per hour any of those lines can run (a cap which extends to the  by merit of merging). And may I remind you that while the Lex corridor is pretty much saturated service wise (with platform crowding mitigation, you could maybe send an extra 1 or 2 tph up there before timing restricts you), the 7th avenue expresses can take another 4-6 tph of service over the rest of their routes -- if it wasn't for Rogers.

Moving beyond capacity, though, service through that junction is currently shit. It isn't just slow speed due to timers, or limited train frequency. It's that sitting in the tunnel waiting for a lineup through the interlocking is now such a quotidian event that we now schedule some  and  trips to have six minutes between Franklin and President. And remember, this is the MTA, where we never adjust schedules.

But even this seems to not be enough. I have a friend who commutes daily from Newkirk on the , and at least three times a week, she'll complain of waiting for more than five minutes coming into the junction for want of a lineup through it. But even beyond that, I'll sometimes hear of how something at 72nd St led to  service getting bunched, creating a parade of late local trains hogging lineups through Rogers, making the  have the same problem. It'd be one thing if this was some relatively low ridership corridor, but we're talking the  here. A gap of as little as 4 minutes on those lines can create platform crowding issues elsewhere on the corridor that so impact train service and customer experience that we sometimes have to bar entry to stations. If I could, I'd hermetically seal the . Those trains are f**king toxic. 

Now, in terms of mitigation, changing service patterns won't be enough. The crossover configuration means that even with the suggested setup, trains would still have to cross paths for that segment of track between the express/local crossover and the Nostrand diverge. For this to work, you'd have to at the very least install a new crossover beyond the Nostrand diverge so that whichever Lex service ends up serving Nostrand and Kingston can do so without interfering with  service. And about timers: don't regard them as absolutes. Many of those timers at Rogers should be either eliminated, raised, or converted to DGTs so their function better reflects their purpose and need. I don't think citing them as a reason for not implementing a service change is rational unless you can make the case that they all must stay, and that they will all sustain the same delay cascading/capacity restriction issues as today's interlined set up.

For more on potential junction design changes, I urge you to look at this:

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IRT-Nostrand-Junction-Report.pdf

Finally, customer preference. Yes. It's very important. I take two issues with your characterization, however. I first play don't think that Franklin will experience crowding that is in any way equivalent to that of our systems more packed stops. There simply is not the ridership to create it, especially not if trains are running with today's frequencies. Regardless, I think the larger issue many here and elsewhere have is that they only see the preferences of customers in the directly impacted area. We can't think like that. Yes, some will lose access to the precious Lex. But they'll simultaneously gain better, more frequent train service. And the literal millions who use these lines elsewhere in the city will benefit too. Their commutes on the  will be less insufferable than they are today as the effects of shorter headways and fewer delays play out across the system. In short, I think their preferences should be included too. 

The physical layout between Nostrand , President and Franklin Avenue preclude installing a  newer crossover at that location without a rebuild of the whole junction which is why it has never been attempted. I was taught that more than 30 years ago by people who knew the plant and surrounding signals, columns, and the general topography. I have physically walked the north and southbound tracks from Utica Avenue, Nostrand Junction tower, President St tower, and the s/b track 3 from Atlantic Avenue to Utica Avenue pulling cable the length of track from point to point on a work train 5 nights a week when the old tower at the junction was decommissioned and relocated to the present tower at Utica Avenue. Senior motor instructors and a Trainmaster were my teachers back then. I think I'll defer to their knowledge. Carry on.