BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

All of these reasons are why passenger distributions are off. Certain routes/drivers perform better so people flock to the better routes/drivers. Nobody wants a slow complacent driver, or snail prone route, but then again nobody wants to crowd onto a crowded bus. At this point I'd just crowd, especially if I know its a driver that moves. I just wish there was consistency. That's one of the reasons why I'm so pro-CBTC in the subways because you know your ride will be the same each time.

 

You would think they'd change the paddles to adhere to COVID levels...how many picks were there after the pandemic started? FIVE? And we still have pre-pandemic schedules? Do you know why they are being so stubborn to adjusting the paddles? I have no issue with drivers cruising along the pickup portion, I respect it and obviously you shouldn't be running more than 5mins early. My main issue dragging along in the HOV lane...why hold up all those buses and traffic...at least do the speed limit..

And someone needs to talk to DOT about the HOV lane speed limits...35mph doesn't make any sense when you have the narrow HLC counter-flow tunnel at 45mph, but a private and wider HOV lane 10mph lower...the HOV should be 45mph between the Verrazano/60st, and 50mph on the Gowanus/over the hill down to the tunnel, in which the tunnel will reduce it to 45mph.

To be honest, earlier on the drivers were going crazy about the run times because with Vision Zero, the trips were taking longer than in the past. The unions made a big stink about it, and then the  changed the run times on a number of lines. I think part of it is the current uncertain situation - that's how it was explained to me when I asked and in a way it makes sense to a degree. We don't know if traffic will pick up and we'll need to have these run times again, so they would prefer not to make any big changes for now, perhaps until we're back to normal. It definitely sucks because I have been on buses where we had to sit a good 10-15 minutes because there was no traffic.

As for DOT, I can ask. I now have a contact who I've been dealing with for other things that I can call up. She is very nice. I forget which department she is in, but she's been helping me with a number of things. I have to find her phone number since I need to ask her a few other things. She recently helped me get a bus stop moved and is doing some other things for me. I had another guy I was dealing with, but he is not always available and is hard to reach.

I agree with everything that you said though. It makes everything a mess because you have some drivers leaving 10+ minutes late. Some leave on-time. Been this way on Staten Island for years. It's the same thing every time I go back out there, and what's crazy is the drivers have more eyes on them now than ever before, but as I said, if they go by the book, then yes, part of that means dragging the line in some cases. That won't be changed either. The  's motto is safety first...

Edited March 31, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

To be honest, earlier on the drivers were going crazy about the run times because with Vision Zero, the trips were taking longer than in the past. The unions made a big stink about it, and then the  changed the run times on a number of lines. I think part of it is the current uncertain situation - that's how it was explained to me when I asked and in a way it makes sense to a degree. We don't know if traffic will pick up and we'll need to have these run times again, so they would prefer not to make any big changes for now, perhaps until we're back to normal. It definitely sucks because I have been on buses where we had to sit a good 10-15 minutes because there was no traffic.

As for DOT, I can ask. I now have a contact who I've been dealing with for other things that I can call up. She is very nice. I forget which department she is in, but she's been helping me with a number of things. I have to find her phone number since I need to ask her a few other things. She recently helped me get a bus stop moved and is doing some other things for me. I had another guy I was dealing with, but he is not always available and is hard to reach.

I agree with everything that you said though. It makes everything a mess because you have some drivers leaving 10+ minutes late. Some leave on-time. Been this way on Staten Island for years. It's the same thing every time I go back out there, and what's crazy is the drivers have more eyes on them now than ever before, but as I said, if they go by the book, then yes, part of that means dragging the line in some cases. That won't be changed either. The  's motto is safety first...

Makes perfect sense, Vision Zero ruined so much for such a small increase in safety. The city's goal is to get more than 80% of cars off the road and only have the roads for buses, bikes, delivery vehicles and a bunch of pedestrian plazas.

 

Thanks for planning to reach out to DOT about the speed limits. The HLC tunnel was increased from 25mph to 45mph, so maybe the HOV is 45mph internally but the signs were never changed since most people do 45-50mph anyways.

 

I appreciate everything you do for us express bus riders. Hopefully the MTA can eventually go through a major restructuring that can help move NYC the way it was designed to be (prior to the politics that got involved). The transportation network has SO much potential and I hate seeing the neglect on a daily basis.

[Future ENY OP]

2 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Makes perfect sense, Vision Zero ruined so much for such a small increase in safety. The city's goal is to get more than 80% of cars off the road and only have the roads for buses, bikes, delivery vehicles and a bunch of pedestrian plazas.

 

Thanks for planning to reach out to DOT about the speed limits. The HLC tunnel was increased from 25mph to 45mph, so maybe the HOV is 45mph internally but the signs were never changed since most people do 45-50mph anyways.

 

I appreciate everything you do for us express bus riders. Hopefully the MTA can eventually go through a major restructuring that can help move NYC the way it was designed to be (prior to the politics that got involved). The transportation network has SO much potential and I hate seeing the neglect on a daily basis.

The HLC was always 45 MPH. Unless your talking about the HOV lane from Bay Ridge to the tunnel than yes. Not too sure with the Staten Island Expwy end. 

[paulrivera]

Update: my BxM4 took a shortcut and got to 27th Street 8 minutes hot.

came back to the Bronx on the subway and came regret my decision

[Express Bus Operator]

12 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Some bus drivers are so by the books (and by books that are so poorly written and not written with common sense). For drivers that USE common sense, one should note stay on time during the pickup section, and once you drop off all of your passengers the route is completed. DUH! Thank god there are still drivers out there that are smart and do their jobs correctly. I really wish I could tip them because they really use common sense which is extremely important when driving a bus in NYC. It's unfair how some of these drivers go above and beyond for passengers, but they get the same pay as the money hungry ignorant ones that only care about themselves.

 

I've learned over the years that this is a job that you can literally SUCK at, and you'll still get praised just because you did the BARE MINIMUM. Something needs to be done. 

 

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Most of the drivers out here are great. I suspect some have been burned though, and so they figure they have to go by the books. Technically, that is what the  wants... They want drivers adhering to the schedules the entire time (even in the drop-off segment, though they usually don't always radio drivers to do that). It really depends on dispatch, and if you get a guy who wants to be a hard ass. I have met some of the dispatchers on Staten Island either at  meetings or other events, and most are pretty cool and try hard to provide good service.

The only thing that I know that the union is still supporting on Staten Island is the passenger limit, despite the  not having one. Some drivers are deciding not to pick up past a certain amount of passengers to avoid overcrowding, so some people are pissed because they are being left behind. Other than that, if there's an issue with crackdowns on drivers to adhere to their paddles during the drop-off segment on Staten Island, that is news to me. What I can tell you is some trips are being held back because the schedules are so poorly written that the guys have wayyy too much time for the pick-up segment. We tried to get them revised before the next pick, but no dice. Supposedly, the  doesn't want to change the runtimes for now with everything going on, but we'll keep at it if it remains a big problem. We went directly to the top for that and I heard from my contact about it a few days later.

 

11 hours ago, paulrivera said:

 

That must be a new policy. Every time I’d take an express bus (haven’t taken one so far this year) once the pickup segments were done the buses I was on (evenly divided between Yonkers and Eastchester routes) didn’t sit at the drop off stops, didn’t way it for green lights to turn red, and went within 5mph of the speed limit (45-50 on the highway, 20-25 off the highway)

 

8 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I literally I don't get how hard it is to adhere to the paddles for the pick up section, and when you past the last pick-up stop, literally go ahead and finish your trip safely and efficiently for all, if no more passengers are getting on (by route design) what are they waiting for? With how cheap the MTA is idk why they aren't allowing drivers to turn around AFTER they drop off the last passengers (you'd save mileage AND gas), AND buses will be able to return to the depot FASTER so the next drivers can pick up a bus. And it's funny because passengers kept looking up over the seats as to why we were driving so slow, just to see nothing in front of us. It's always the Meredith drivers too (SIM15), which is very weird because they only drive express. Yukon drivers are hands down the best drivers on the island, and I purposely take their routes when possible because I know 90% of their drivers move their buses (only reason why I took the SIM15 is because the SIM1 was behind AND had 23 people on board). To see the SIM1 then pass us on the bridge, and arrive in Manhattan while we were only going over the hill down to the tunnel is what really pissed me off.  

 

Don't states have a minimum highway speed? Why are drivers allowed to drive so slow on highways? 20-25mph is NOT safe. And idk why the HOV lane is 35mph when the damnn tunnel is 45!! That narrow counter-flow HLC tunnel is 45mph, but a wider and private HOV lane is 10mph slower...NYCDOT logic🥴. 

I know it's a pain on the ass when bus operators slows down or wait at a certain stop for a long period. But we are instructed to never be ahead of schedule or at least be on time or late. Every bus in service are being tracked by dispatchers on post, command center and micro-manage by a road operation superintendents.  When a bus is ahead of schedule, it looks bad on the operator because the first thing that comes in play is the operator is speeding and not operating the bus safely. Another key to remember is, how would we feel if an airline always took off before it's assigned schedule?.

The last thing the operator needs is getting a violation for being ahead of schedule and that write-up will stay on their file for the next 5 years and will prevent them from getting promoted to a higher position like a dispatcher or superintendent. Also the operator will be getting undercover rides to see why they are always ahead of schedule. Keep in mind, the bus schedules changes according to the previous operators that manage that run. If that run is always ahead of time, they will reduce bus service usage. The later the bus, the more they can make changes.  So reporting the operator to transit about the bus is driving too slow will be thrown out the minute he/she is called in the office with a union representative. The Safety and Training division overrule these types of reporting when it comes to safety and DMV rules and regulations.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

34 minutes ago, Flatbush Operator said:

 

 

 

I know it's a pain on the ass when bus operators slows down or wait at a certain stop for a long period. But we are instructed to never be ahead of schedule or at least be on time or late. Every bus in service are being tracked by dispatchers on post, command center and micro-manage by a road operation superintendents.  When a bus is ahead of schedule, it looks bad on the operator because the first thing that comes in play is the operator is speeding and not operating the bus safely. Another key to remember is, how would we feel if an airline always took off before it's assigned schedule?.

The last thing the operator needs is getting a violation for being ahead of schedule and that write-up will stay on their file for the next 5 years and will prevent them from getting promoted to a higher position like a dispatcher or superintendent. Also the operator will be getting undercover rides to see why they are always ahead of schedule. Keep in mind, the bus schedules changes according to the previous operators that manage that run. If that run is always ahead of time, they will reduce bus service usage. The later the bus, the more they can make changes.  So reporting the operator to transit about the bus is driving too slow will be thrown out the minute he/she is called in the office with a union representative. The Safety and Training division overrule these types of reporting when it comes to safety and DMV rules and regulations.

You appear to be a local bus operator. I spoke with a dispatcher some weeks ago who used to oversee express service, but now handles local service about the differences between local and express (there are differences). Local bus service is being managed in a much different way. I see bus operators waiting at stops, allowing passengers to get the bus, which is a good thing. They curb the bus at the stops unless a vehicle is in the bus stop. Dare I say it, but local bus service in some aspects is actually better than express. Myself and other express bus customers are constantly having to step into the street to board our bus or hail them down; some act like they are not in service. 

The whole running hot thing really depends on the depot. Castleton Depot on the express end... The drivers are either late or early. Been that way for years on the express side and still is. Flatbush is a different animal entirely, and when I'm in Brooklyn, I can't bring myself to use any line like the B49. The bus service compared to years ago is incredibly slow. They've got you guys going 1000% by the book. I just get an Uber if I'm not near my final destination after taking the express bus when I'm not in a car down there.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Operator said:

I know it's a pain on the ass when bus operators slows down or wait at a certain stop for a long period. But we are instructed to never be ahead of schedule or at least be on time or late. Every bus in service are being tracked by dispatchers on post, command center and micro-manage by a road operation superintendents.  When a bus is ahead of schedule, it looks bad on the operator because the first thing that comes in play is the operator is speeding and not operating the bus safely. Another key to remember is, how would we feel if an airline always took off before it's assigned schedule?.

The last thing the operator needs is getting a violation for being ahead of schedule and that write-up will stay on their file for the next 5 years and will prevent them from getting promoted to a higher position like a dispatcher or superintendent. Also the operator will be getting undercover rides to see why they are always ahead of schedule. Keep in mind, the bus schedules changes according to the previous operators that manage that run. If that run is always ahead of time, they will reduce bus service usage. The later the bus, the more they can make changes.  So reporting the operator to transit about the bus is driving too slow will be thrown out the minute he/she is called in the office with a union representative. The Safety and Training division overrule these types of reporting when it comes to safety and DMV rules and regulations.

Local bus I get why this is done: You gotta pick up at every stop you make. And yea, running ahead of schedule is gonna suck for people that have their schedule down to the second that would wind up having to wait like 20 minutes in some cases for another local bus (and up to an hour for an express bus)

The drop-off only segments on the express buses otoh: just leave them be. As long as they're not weaving between lanes driving like maniacs and drive the bus smoothly at a safe and reasonable speed, just leave the express bus operators be.

Now, if I miss an express bus because the operator either ran 5 minutes hot thru a pickup stop or didn't bother to even try to stop (hint: everyone's a potential customer nowadays, some folks are getting sick of the subway's bullcrap), then yea, the bus operator should be hung.

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Myself and other express bus customers are constantly having to step into the street to board our bus or hail them down; some act like they are not in service. 

ooo, I really lucked out this morning. My guy tucked himself right into the stop behind the Bx2 and had his right blinker on a half block in advance.

I've heard horror stories where the local bus would pull into a stop shared with an express, obstructs the express B/O's view and then they just drive right by...

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I just get an Uber if I'm not near my final destination after taking the express bus when I'm not in a car down there.

The second I remembered the M5 doesn't run downtown and that the M55 wasn't a Limited and was less frequent than the M5, I went straight to the  train to finish my trip...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

57 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I've heard horror stories where the local bus would pull into a stop shared with an express, obstructs the express B/O's view and then they just drive right by...

The second I remembered the M5 doesn't run downtown and that the M55 wasn't a Limited and was less frequent than the M5, I went straight to the  train to finish my trip...

There are a number of things I've been working on based on customer complaints in my group. I actually just had the BxM1 bus stop moved at 86th & 3rd for this very reason. It is now where the BxM10 stops at on 3rd between 86th & 87th, which is much better, as there will rarely be a BxM10 and BxM1 bus at that stop at the same time. We're looking at a few other stops too where passengers have to run around local buses or run in the damn street to get their bus.

At other stops, the drivers are simply going to have to wait, and that is something that drivers are being reminded of. As a passenger, there are a few things that irritate me that I want changed that have been going on for years, and that is one of them. Having a bus in the stop that is shared does not mean that the express bus goes around the stop and keeps going. It means that the driver waits behind and then pulls in after the first bus has left. More drivers are doing this, that is waiting. It's really about changing terrible habits that lead to angry passengers. Waiting a few seconds can mean a passenger not waiting half an hour or more for the next bus.

Today was a bit of a mess with that BxM1 changed stop, but the  agreed to get a dispatcher at the new stop and get signage up at the old stop so that passengers would not be bypassed.

These days, I really do not use the local bus in the City unless it's something I can't walk. If it's say 5-10 blocks, I just walk to get some exercise. If it's a few miles, I take an Uber. If a bus is coming and it isn't crowded and traffic is light, I'll hop on the bus. I have really become anal about my trips being faster and more efficient if I do use public transit. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[SevenEleven]

On the express bus bit, just because it's the drop off section of the route does not mean blaze till the end. Like @Flatbush Operator said, if they see buses getting to the end earlier than scheduled, they will trim the runtime for that (or several) trip(s). So when we go back to pre COVID traffic, the new complaint is going to be "Why is the bus leaving the city 10,20 mins late?" Well, it don't have enough time to get to the top of the line... It happened one pick with a SIM22 trip. It did a live 33C inbound to Central Park, and then had to deadhead to the East Side for the 22. Never ever made it because it lost all its time in traffic.

As for the HOV lane, the speed limit is 35 in Brooklyn, 40 in the tunnel and 25 whenever they have that restriction up. So before we go to complaining that an operator is "driving too slow", just remember that your fellow passengers have and continue to complain that the bus is going too fast, not fast enough, not fast enough in deplorable weather conditions (yes, someone complained about a bus doing 40 in the HOV lane during a rain storm), speeding in the tunnel, not commiting two moving violations to get into the SIE's HOV earlier and not sit in traffic.... I can keep going.

All these complaints get supervision riding and monitoring service and if you get the right one to not like the fact that you're doing 50 in a 40, then the operator gets taken out of service (and if you're lucky, the bus too). One less operator for service with already low availability only screws up service further for everyone else. TBTA, highway and state police will give tickets out to operators for speeding. That ticket is a fine + points on OUR license, and a write up. Nobody is gonna bend the rules if it means getting in trouble in the end.

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, SevenEleven said:

On the express bus bit, just because it's the drop off section of the route does not mean blaze till the end. Like @Flatbush Operator said, if they see buses getting to the end earlier than scheduled, they will trim the runtime for that (or several) trip(s). So when we go back to pre COVID traffic, the new complaint is going to be "Why is the bus leaving the city 10,20 mins late?" Well, it don't have enough time to get to the top of the line... It happened one pick with a SIM22 trip. It did a live 33C inbound to Central Park, and then had to deadhead to the East Side for the 22. Never ever made it because it lost all its time in traffic.

As for the HOV lane, the speed limit is 35 in Brooklyn, 40 in the tunnel and 25 whenever they have that restriction up. So before we go to complaining that an operator is "driving too slow", just remember that your fellow passengers have and continue to complain that the bus is going too fast, not fast enough, not fast enough in deplorable weather conditions (yes, someone complained about a bus doing 40 in the HOV lane during a rain storm), speeding in the tunnel, not commiting two moving violations to get into the SIE's HOV earlier and not sit in traffic.... I can keep going.

All these complaints get supervision riding and monitoring service and if you get the right one to not like the fact that you're doing 50 in a 40, then the operator gets taken out of service (and if you're lucky, the bus too). One less operator for service with already low availability only screws up service further for everyone else. TBTA, highway and state police will give tickets out to operators for speeding. That ticket is a fine + points on OUR license, and a write up. Nobody is gonna bend the rules if it means getting in trouble in the end.

Thanks for the clear up regarding the HOV lane in Bay Ridge. I’ve seen a decent amount of TBTA and state police on the VNB and the BBT as of late. Saw a few last Friday heading into Staten Island when the upper level of the bridge was closed. 

PS: In my years of driving I’ve never seen highway patrol pull over an express bus for excessive speeding unless that’s a thing with Highway 5 (Staten Island) or State PD (Staten Island barracks). However, I get the point. No driver doesn’t need to be observed b/c he or she is running hot or the risk of a write up b/c of excessive speeding to make service. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It is now where the BxM10 stops at on 3rd between 86th & 87th, which is much better, as there will rarely be a BxM10 and BxM1 bus at that stop at the same time

kudos to you for that. i never understood why they tried to shoehorn M101/2/3's & BxM1's in that stop (among others)

2 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

All these complaints get supervision riding and monitoring service and if you get the right one to not like the fact that you're doing 50 in a 40, then the operator gets taken out of service (and if you're lucky, the bus too). One less operator for service with already low availability only screws up service further for everyone else. TBTA, highway and state police will give tickets out to operators for speeding. That ticket is a fine + points on OUR license, and a write up. Nobody is gonna bend the rules if it means getting in trouble in the end

a point that is still grossly glossed over, as if it has no validity, regardless if it's local/sbs or express service. i apologize if this has been mentioned, but it would take a uniform culture change for things such as this not to occur. as has been stated, G.S to G.S, Superintendent to Superintendent, policy can/is interpreted differently. i had a concern (never written up) about pulling away from the curb and whether or not to reopen my doors to "service" the stop again (seeing as i had already serviced the stop by the book) I've heard several different points of view, ranging from Superintendents at Zerega, Spring Creek (for 19A) SLD's & G.S's/AGM's. when you have the human element, i get why person to person, there will be different perspectives. however, policy is policy. and if you as an organization train every 19A dispatcher/SLD/G.S/AGM to  analyze situations (including accidents) with uniform general practicality based on concrete rules/practices WITHOUT PRE-DETERMINED BIAS/MALICE, instead of everyone analyzing things based on what side of the bed they got up from/emotions, then things would significantly change. going back to training, days 1-7/8/9/10... pick random B/O's and guaranteed they'll all tell you (myself included) how differently their training superintendents instructed them. that's a big problem in all honesty. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

kudos to you for that. i never understood why they tried to shoehorn M101/2/3's & BxM1's in that stop (among others)

a point that is still grossly glossed over, as if it has no validity, regardless if it's local/sbs or express service. i apologize if this has been mentioned, but it would take a uniform culture change for things such as this not to occur. as has been stated, G.S to G.S, Superintendent to Superintendent, policy can/is interpreted differently. i had a concern (never written up) about pulling away from the curb and whether or not to reopen my doors to "service" the stop again (seeing as i had already serviced the stop by the book) I've heard several different points of view, ranging from Superintendents at Zerega, Spring Creek (for 19A) SLD's & G.S's/AGM's. when you have the human element, i get why person to person, there will be different perspectives. however, policy is policy. and if you as an organization train every 19A dispatcher/SLD/G.S/AGM to  analyze situations (including accidents) with uniform general practicality based on concrete rules/practices WITHOUT PRE-DETERMINED BIAS/MALICE, instead of everyone analyzing things based on what side of the bed they got up from/emotions, then things would significantly change. going back to training, days 1-7/8/9/10... pick random B/O's and guaranteed they'll all tell you (myself included) how differently their training superintendents instructed them. that's a big problem in all honesty. 

I had a superintendent tell me that training needs to improve and be more uniform, and I agree, though as I said, from my observations, the local buses have definitely improved in a number of ways that are more passenger centric. They have to make changes. There are simply too many complaints (some are legitimate, some, not so much).

Getting bus stops moved is no small feat. The DOT is not a fan of it and it's a long process. I made a suggestion of where that BxM1 stop should go. They went out and surveyed the stop, and agreed with me that it could be moved to a better location, which I was not expecting, but my argument was badger them about how unsafe it is and they may agree to change it. I had not thought about the BxM10 location, but rather further back, which is what we discussed, but then in speaking with the DOT about bus stops and bus shelters, they are trying to make due with more bus shelters too, which is something I've been screaming and yelling about, so that location allows us to have a bus shelter nearby without any new ones having to be built (they're supposedly capped out at the moment).

 

4 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

On the express bus bit, just because it's the drop off section of the route does not mean blaze till the end. Like @Flatbush Operator said, if they see buses getting to the end earlier than scheduled, they will trim the runtime for that (or several) trip(s). So when we go back to pre COVID traffic, the new complaint is going to be "Why is the bus leaving the city 10,20 mins late?" Well, it don't have enough time to get to the top of the line... It happened one pick with a SIM22 trip. It did a live 33C inbound to Central Park, and then had to deadhead to the East Side for the 22. Never ever made it because it lost all its time in traffic.

As for the HOV lane, the speed limit is 35 in Brooklyn, 40 in the tunnel and 25 whenever they have that restriction up. So before we go to complaining that an operator is "driving too slow", just remember that your fellow passengers have and continue to complain that the bus is going too fast, not fast enough, not fast enough in deplorable weather conditions (yes, someone complained about a bus doing 40 in the HOV lane during a rain storm), speeding in the tunnel, not commiting two moving violations to get into the SIE's HOV earlier and not sit in traffic.... I can keep going.

All these complaints get supervision riding and monitoring service and if you get the right one to not like the fact that you're doing 50 in a 40, then the operator gets taken out of service (and if you're lucky, the bus too). One less operator for service with already low availability only screws up service further for everyone else. TBTA, highway and state police will give tickets out to operators for speeding. That ticket is a fine + points on OUR license, and a write up. Nobody is gonna bend the rules if it means getting in trouble in the end.

I'm sorry, but it is absurd to have any driver be held at a time point during the drop-off segment, which is what happened to a driver I know. The only thing it does is piss off the passengers trying to get to work. I have had a number of HEATED discussions with the  about providing schedules that are realistic. It is VERY reasonable to expect them to look at the performance of ALL express service before any new pick to evaluate how buses are running, and make changes accordingly, and they do this with the Bronx lines for sure, but they leave many of the other lines the same regardless of the pick for years. There should be uniformity in this regard based on what they agreed to below.

Here is the deal on schedules. The  was audited by the City Comptroller in 2015 for express bus service and their metrics. After the audit showed that at least 33% or 1/3rd of express bus service was late Citywide, the  agreed to provide more realistic schedules AND to provide metrics for the express bus service (in terms of on-time performance, missing trips and the like). There is no way that it should be called a "premium service" like MNRR or the LIRR, and be ok to have buses starting and finishing whenever, and then charge customers $13.50 round trip, with no expectations of any sort of schedule or performance, and yes we know there is traffic. That is not the point. They have live data now that they can look at (and believe me, they look at it, which is what made them propose certain route changes in some of these redesigns because we talked about them), so each pick, you look at the data and you make adjustments as needed, be it more run-time or less in some areas. That means the drivers don't have to sit around and wait, and the buses keep on moving. The buses finishing the drop-offs earlier should not be a problem, and I'm not saying any driver should be Speedy Gonzalez getting to the end, but they sure as hell should not hold them once that pick-up segment is done. You let them go because it is supposed to be "express" bus service.

We've been in this pandemic now for over a year. It is unclear when the pandemic will be over, so I see no reason to keep the same exact schedules when buses have to sit around in some cases 10-15 minutes during the pick-up segment. I never say anything to a driver or complain about having to wait because I understand it's out of their control. However, we want the schedules changed to reflect the current situation, and several of us wrote to higher-ups about it recently to do just that. It should be a standard practice now based on what they agreed to with that previous audit. Evaluate each line and you change the schedule accordingly where needed. Hell NJTransit does this. Why can't the  ? These are the things passengers care about (I don't know anyone who doesn't care about timely service). Here's the difference between the  and NJTransit. You take an NJTransit express bus. That bus is pulling out of the terminal on-time. It is not sitting around waiting because the schedules are updated the way they should be.

From the passengers' point of view, we don't want them copying and pasting schedules from years ago when traffic conditions have changed or if the amount of time allotted means buses constantly arriving at pick-up timepoints early, with passengers missing their bus. This is a current problem with lines like the SIM22 (it is one of the worst performing express bus lines on Staten Island , and we constantly get complaints about missing trips or early or late buses) the QM15 (too much run time along 6th Av) and a host of others. Case in point... Two bus lines going down the same corridor and making practically the same stops should have more uniform run times in that section, but that is not the case.

I looked into the SIM22 and understand that just about all of the trips in the PM have an earlier trip or involves deadheading of some sort that means it can be late starting. It's also VERY obvious that other lines like the SIM8 are prioritized. Whether or not they pull trips from elsewhere for that line I don't know, but I do know that in the past, even on the local end, some lines will have a bus pulled to make service on another line. I do know that the SIM8 trips that deadhead from SI get more time because of the depot location, and I would imagine that they hold some buses in the City too for that line, which also helps them to start on-time.

To your point though, I think perhaps your concern is that the  cuts run times and then they don't want to elongate them again down the line, which could mean lots of late buses. Cutting run times saves them money in the overall big picture, so adding back more run time they usually won't want to do if it's a substantial change overall.

Right now with driver shortages, they are definitely prioritizing certain trips and trying to provide the ones with the heaviest riders to avoid overcrowding. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[paulrivera]

4 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

On the express bus bit, just because it's the drop off section of the route does not mean blaze till the end.

Of course not, they should never be doing more than the speed limit. They should also brake and accelerate as smooth and comfortable as possible, not weave between lanes, and go no faster than the 3-4mph or whatever the rule is while turning.

But if they’re driving 15 in a 25, stopping at green lights, and holding at bus stops when they’re running thru sections where they’re by rule only dropping people off and not picking up, that’s a problem too.

Imagine if every Metro-North train had to sit and wait at Harlem (drop off only) for 10 minutes and then go half speed down Park Avenue and stop at every interlocking (switch) before going to Grand Central even if there’s nothing impeding it’s route.

it’s okay to pad a schedule a little bit on a dropoff segment to improve the on time performance. It shouldn’t mean stall to use every last second of it, it should just be there if you need it for an uncontrollable situation (traffic, weather, etc.). You didn’t need to use all your time today? Great. But you might need all that extra time when 5th Avenue goes to shit in the future.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

20 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Of course not, they should never be doing more than the speed limit. They should also brake and accelerate as smooth and comfortable as possible, not weave between lanes, and go no faster than the 3-4mph or whatever the rule is while turning.

But if they’re driving 15 in a 25, stopping at green lights, and holding at bus stops when they’re running thru sections where they’re by rule only dropping people off and not picking up, that’s a problem too.

Imagine if every Metro-North train had to sit and wait at Harlem (drop off only) for 10 minutes and then go half speed down Park Avenue and stop at every interlocking (switch) before going to Grand Central even if there’s nothing impeding it’s route.

it’s okay to pad a schedule a little bit on a dropoff segment to improve the on time performance. It shouldn’t mean stall to use every last second of it, it should just be there if you need it for an uncontrollable situation (traffic, weather, etc.). You didn’t need to use all your time today? Great. But you might need all that extra time when 5th Avenue goes to shit in the future.

There are a lot of plans for 5th Av south of 60th in particular. The discussions had at the previous "busway" meetings (project is now on hold) was to install cameras along that corridor to catch bus lane abusers for starters. They get a ticket in the mail. The clear curb program was ended, but that was very effective when it existed around parts of Midtown with getting bus stops clear and keeping bus lanes clear. They had traffic cops come in and turn on their sirens and sit there and honk until the person moved out or they get a ticket. My guess is they felt the program was too costly, and the cameras obviously can catch many more offenders and deter them. What used to happen is you'd have a traffic cop ticketing a car in one spot, and two blocks down, here's some other guy doing something to impede the buses from moving. Endless problem pre-pandemic.

I agree with everything you said though. My goal is to get the  to change how they operate, and that is not to just have the attitude that hey we don't control traffic. They don't, but they can do a hell of a lot more to improve bus service. More aggressive dispatching, advocating more loudly for more bus lanes and cameras. NJTransit understands that a big chunk of their ridership base are bus riders. With the  , they've had a blasé attitude when it comes to providing good bus service. They get there when they get there. That is why ridership has been declining. Same thing with the subways... Taking public transportation is a sacrifice that many New Yorkers make, and if you don't make changes, you get what we have now... A City where everyone wants to drive, which is not sustainable for anyone.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[MHV9218]

Goddamn the FB group got wrecked lmao. That thread on the LFS HEV was like an army of Gen Z coming to torch the village. I feel like an old head when to me I'm still one of the kids in this community... This is why I keep off the socials...

[QM1to6Ave]

@Via Garibaldi 8 @BM5 via Woodhaven @checkmatechamp13 etc...

Any word if there is reduced express service for Good Friday tomorrow? It says "weekday school closed" service on the QM1 timetable, but I don't think that affects express buses? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 @BM5 via Woodhaven @checkmatechamp13 etc...

Any word if there is reduced express service for Good Friday tomorrow? It says "weekday school closed" service on the QM1 timetable, but I don't think that affects express buses? 

Should be regular service tomorrow. I actually am going into the office myself and didn't think anything of it. I think in previous years when I have worked on Good Friday, I don't recall service changing at all.

Edit: Yeah, I looked at the schedules. Schools are closed tomorrow, so obviously, no school service, but express bus service is regular.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Should be regular service tomorrow. I actually am going into the office myself and didn't think anything of it. I think in previous years when I have worked on Good Friday, I don't recall service changing at all.

There was one year (maybe 3 or 4 years ago) that I remember they ran more like a Day After Thanksgiving schedule on Good Friday, but I don't think they did that again. Maybe they got complaints...traffic is usually pretty light, and I think the HOV lane is open on the LIE which is nice

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

There was one year (maybe 3 or 4 years ago) that I remember they ran more like a Day After Thanksgiving schedule on Good Friday, but I don't think they did that again. Maybe they got complaints...traffic is usually pretty light, and I think the HOV lane is open on the LIE which is nice

That's interesting. There's been a few times when they were really short on drivers where they actually changed some lines. For the QM1, as you know, if they are short drivers, they just have a QM5 run via Fresh Meadows.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 @BM5 via Woodhaven @checkmatechamp13 etc...

Any word if there is reduced express service for Good Friday tomorrow? It says "weekday school closed" service on the QM1 timetable, but I don't think that affects express buses? 

School closed never affects express buses.

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

There was one year (maybe 3 or 4 years ago) that I remember they ran more like a Day After Thanksgiving schedule on Good Friday, but I don't think they did that again. Maybe they got complaints...traffic is usually pretty light, and I think the HOV lane is open on the LIE which is nice

On Good Friday 2019, they did a reduced weekday schedule out here on Staten Island and it was a complete disaster. I live a couple of stops from the expressway, and after a long wait, a SIM8 went flying by and didn't bother to stop. A SIM4 stopped and after my stop it was full to the white line. (I heard the later buses had to bypass pretty much half the route). So after that, it's just a regular weekday schedule.

On 3/31/2021 at 8:22 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Good luck with that. Something I found VERY strange the other day was a driver telling me how he can't get to Manhattan too early. We had no traffic and the people on the bus wanted stops towards the end of the line so we moved quickly. I always thought once the pick-up segment is done, that's it, you just go. Makes no sense to me. If dispatch is behind it, why in the world would they penalize express bus drivers if they finish the pick-up segment on-time, but finish the trip early? 

I just asked a driver I know. Blame the  . Even though it's the drop-off segment, some guys are being called up by dispatch and told to wait and check their paddles. That is incredibly stupid. I am going to look into this for you. I see no reason why any driver should have to hold at any time point that is along the drop-off segment, and drive slowly after the pick-up segment has been done.

The only possible logic is for transferring riders, but there aren't that many making express bus-express bus transfers to justify holding the whole bus up, and usually there are multiple options available at the transfer point. (Though I do get at least serving the stops...the days of the X10 when buses would run straight to Slosson, or make stops at Fingerboard & Hylan and then get on the highway to say, Bradley or Victory are pretty much done). 

On 3/31/2021 at 1:21 PM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Don't states have a minimum highway speed? Why are drivers allowed to drive so slow on highways? 20-25mph is NOT safe. And idk why the HOV lane is 35mph when the damnn tunnel is 45!! That narrow counter-flow HLC tunnel is 45mph, but a wider and private HOV lane is 10mph slower...NYCDOT logic🥴. 

The tunnel is 40 mph

On 3/31/2021 at 2:47 PM, Future ENY OP said:

The HLC was always 45 MPH. Unless your talking about the HOV lane from Bay Ridge to the tunnel than yes. Not too sure with the Staten Island Expwy end. 

I thought I saw a 35 mph sign there as well. (The thing is you have to be careful not to go too much faster than the general traffic, because there's idiots who will cross over the double solid line and get into the HOV...shoot I even see it early in the morning when there's no traffic, everyone else is doing 50 mph and someone will just cut around you to do 70 mph in the HOV)

18 hours ago, Flatbush Operator said:

Keep in mind, the bus schedules changes according to the previous operators that manage that run. If that run is always ahead of time, they will reduce bus service usage. The later the bus, the more they can make changes.

You mean reduce the runtime? I mean it makes sense to make scheduled runtimes as close as possible to the actual conditions, so people can plan better. And that includes adding runtime or layover time when necessary...you take 10 minutes from a run/trip that's routinely early and give it to a run/trip that's routinely late (or if it involves multiple routes and/or timeframes, you might be able to save enough to add an extra couple of trips to extend the service span or reduce overcrowding). 

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The tunnel is 40 mph

I thought I saw a 35 mph sign there as well. (The thing is you have to be careful not to go too much faster than the general traffic, because there's idiots who will cross over the double solid line and get into the HOV...shoot I even see it early in the morning when there's no traffic, everyone else is doing 50 mph and someone will just cut around you to do 70 mph in the HOV)

Absolutely correct @checkmatechamp13. When I’m in the Vicinity of Bay Ridge and the BQE I usually do between 40/45 on 278. State troopers and TBTA are usually on the side of 92nd and 86th street exits so I’m usually careful when exiting the bridge and entering Bay Ridge. 

HOV = 35. Tunnel = 40.   @SevenEleven confirmed it to me this morning. 

[BreeddekalbL]

What's this I hear you got a little buff running around dressed in ta uniform at wbp?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLGiF5HvNf/?igshid=bxts71ozpgpu

[Iron Valiant]

14 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

What's this I hear you got a little buff running around dressed in ta uniform at wbp?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLGiF5HvNf/?igshid=bxts71ozpgpu

It looks like that same guy who found 0022 when it was in private property.

[paulrivera]

22 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

On Good Friday 2019, they did a reduced weekday schedule out here on Staten Island and it was a complete disaster. I live a couple of stops from the expressway, and after a long wait, a SIM8 went flying by and didn't bother to stop. A SIM4 stopped and after my stop it was full to the white line. (I heard the later buses had to bypass pretty much half the route). So after that, it's just a regular weekday schedule.

On that day, the found out that not everyone is of the Christian denomination.

Express buses were regular in the Bx. I went BxM3 going in (last second semi-urgent errand in the city...), BxM7 going out (errand in Co-op), Bx12 back home.... let's just say I kinda wished I went BxM7 back down to the Upper East Side and switched over to a BxM3 or 4 to my house.

After today, I'm done heading to the city for a good while....

But on another side note: in regards to foot traffic, Midtown itself looks less busy than Fordham Road does. Let that sink in for a moment.

[C40LF]

2 hours ago, Snorunts said:

It looks like that same guy who found 0022 when it was in private property.

That's because it is.