BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Lawrence St]

I said as an EXAMPLE.

Let me use a LOCAL line then to get my point across. Say someone gets on a westbound M125 at 125th/1st and gets off at 8th Ave and asks for a transfer, and then tries to use that transfer to get on a M60 back to 125th/1st without paying a return fare.

This wouldn’t be possible unless it was a tap in & tap out system, which is the point I was trying to make.

[Lawrence St]

14 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The BxM1 doesn't stop anywhere on Park Av. The first stop is Lex & 96th and Northbound it runs via 3rd Av. I agree though... There are many trips where people get a free transfer currently that encourage people to use the system.  I can think of subway to local bus trips on one fare that people do for example because they are on limited incomes.  Either way it's a stupid idea.  

Neither of the lines you mentioned stop at 125th though (not even close), so that's a terrible example. You're making up random **** just because. The BxM1 stops at 96th & Lex Southbound & the BxM2 stops at 98th & Madison Northbound.   What you're saying is you want to make it more expensive for people who use public transportation.  Maybe they shouldn't allow people like yourself to have a reduced fare card then. You should pay the full fare. You do realize that you benefit greatly from receiving a heavily reduced fare. 

 

I don’t have a reduced fare and haven’t had one in 4 years.

And part of this argument I’m trying to make is because all the money that drivers like my self pay in tolls and soon congestion pricing is going to the MTA yet they can’t get their act together, so why should I and millions of other drivers be forced to pay for a system we hardly use? Fix the fare beating and discrepancies with the fare first then talk about CP.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

I said as an EXAMPLE.

Let me use a LOCAL line then to get my point across. Say someone gets on a westbound M125 at 125th/1st and gets off at 8th Ave and asks for a transfer, and then tries to use that transfer to get on a M60 back to 125th/1st without paying a return fare.

This wouldn’t be possible unless it was a tap in & tap out system, which is the point I was trying to make.

Oh please... Very few people ask for paper transfers these days and the ones that do are usually seniors or such that may not be able to afford the fare as it is. Anyone using OMNY gets at least one free transfer (some trips allow for two transfers because some people live in what are two-fare zones) which they can use as they see fit. Why? So that they use the system, otherwise you're discouraging usage. There are trips that are what can be called "optional" trips that people take because it is cheap or it provides a free transfer.

You take those away and you are only hurting mainly low-income people that totally depend on such transfers. Local bus riders generally speaking are low-income, though there are of course exceptions to the rule. Express bus riders do not transfer between buses all that often and even if they did, they are generally upper income (as in middle to upper middle), so they generally speaking could afford such a change.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I don’t have a reduced fare and haven’t had one in 4 years.

And part of this argument I’m trying to make is because all the money that drivers like my self pay in tolls and soon congestion pricing is going to the MTA yet they can’t get their act together, so why should I and millions of other drivers be forced to pay for a system we hardly use? Fix the fare beating and discrepancies with the fare first then talk about CP.

But you benefitted from a reduced fare Metrocard which is the point, yet you've forgotten that you benefitted from one because you drive now, so now you're proposing to screw over the most vulnerable riders because you drive and pay tolls. You come off as very selfish. Well I primarily use taxis in Manhattan and pay a congestion fee to do so every time to the  if it's below 96th St. I guess I should be bitter about it and demand that someone else pay instead when I can comfortably afford to do so. 

I absolutely agree that the  should get its fiscal house in order and crackdown on fare beating, but that is because those that do pay to use public transit wind up coughing up more and everyone that uses the system should pay their fair share.

[checkmatechamp13]

28 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I said as an EXAMPLE.

Let me use a LOCAL line then to get my point across. Say someone gets on a westbound M125 at 125th/1st and gets off at 8th Ave and asks for a transfer, and then tries to use that transfer to get on a M60 back to 125th/1st without paying a return fare.

This wouldn’t be possible unless it was a tap in & tap out system, which is the point I was trying to make.

They already have it that way on several lines (Bx40/42, Bx1/2, the 5th/Madison routes, the 3rd/Lexington routes offhand. There might be one or two corridors that I'm missing)

On the 5th/Madison routes, it causes a problem for some trips, since if you need to take the M1 and then head off along 110th Street, all of the 110th Street crosstown routes are 5th/Madison routes, so you get charged a double fare.

25 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I don’t have a reduced fare and haven’t had one in 4 years.

And part of this argument I’m trying to make is because all the money that drivers like my self pay in tolls and soon congestion pricing is going to the MTA yet they can’t get their act together, so why should I and millions of other drivers be forced to pay for a system we hardly use? Fix the fare beating and discrepancies with the fare first then talk about CP.

Congestion pricing isn't just about funding the MTA. It's about reducing congestion in one of the most transit-rich areas of the country. If you want to drive in, when there's other alternatives available, you should pay for that.

[Lawrence St]

40 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But you benefitted from a reduced fare Metrocard which is the point, yet you've forgotten that you benefitted from one because you drive now, so now you're proposing to screw over the most vulnerable riders because you drive and pay tolls. You come off as very selfish. Well I primarily use taxis in Manhattan and pay a congestion fee to do so every time to the  if it's below 96th St. I guess I should be bitter about it and demand that someone else pay instead when I can comfortably afford to do so. 

I absolutely agree that the  should get its fiscal house in order and crackdown on fare beating, but that is because those that do pay to use public transit wind up coughing up more and everyone that uses the system should pay their fair share.

I am not selfish at all, it’s called being realistic.

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Unpopular opinion: reject transfers being done from different bus routes operating to the same terminal. 

With the benefit being?

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I said as an EXAMPLE.

Let me use a LOCAL line then to get my point across. Say someone gets on a westbound M125 at 125th/1st and gets off at 8th Ave and asks for a transfer, and then tries to use that transfer to get on a M60 back to 125th/1st without paying a return fare.

This wouldn’t be possible unless it was a tap in & tap out system, which is the point I was trying to make.

This example has nothing to do with "operating to the same terminal".

What it sounds like you're trying to convey is that you don't want people xferring between any 2 bus routes that run along the same corridor/street of operation....

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I don’t have a reduced fare and haven’t had one in 4 years.

And part of this argument I’m trying to make is because all the money that drivers like my self pay in tolls and soon congestion pricing is going to the MTA yet they can’t get their act together, so why should I and millions of other drivers be forced to pay for a system we hardly use? Fix the fare beating and discrepancies with the fare first then talk about CP.

Lol... Congestion pricing would still be put on the table, even if every single rider paid their fare....

It's called congestion pricing, not let's-punish-fare-paying-customers-because-the-MTA-has-a-farebeating-problem pricing.... Clear case of misguided anger.

Edited January 15, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Lex]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I said as an EXAMPLE.

Let me use a LOCAL line then to get my point across. Say someone gets on a westbound M125 at 125th/1st and gets off at 8th Ave and asks for a transfer, and then tries to use that transfer to get on a M60 back to 125th/1st without paying a return fare.

This wouldn’t be possible unless it was a tap in & tap out system, which is the point I was trying to make.

They wouldn't be able to do that, anyway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I am not selfish at all, it’s called being realistic.

Realistic about what? You clearly aren't seeing the big picture. What you're proposing would likely push people out of the transit system and into their cars thereby meaning more vehicular congestion. There are some people that use public transit by choice because it is cheap (compared to driving). Tolls wouldn't be decreased.  Tolls and fees don't just go to the . They are used to pay for things you use... Bridges, street maintenance, etc., and the more people that drive, the more upkeep of those things is needed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, Lex said:

They wouldn't be able to do that, anyway.

 

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

With the benefit being?

This example has nothing to do with "operating to the same terminal".

What it sounds like you're trying to convey is that you don't want people xferring between any 2 bus routes that run along the same corridor/street of operation....

Lol... Congestion pricing would still be put on the table, even if every single rider paid their fare....

It's called congestion pricing, not let's-punish-fare-paying-customers-because-the-MTA-has-a-farebeating-problem pricing.... Clear case of misguided anger.

Sounds like he is really trying to focus on people that use their transfer for round trips.... So what if they do? A free transfer is a free transfer and how it is used should be up to the customer. 

[JAzumah]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Congestion pricing isn't just about funding the MTA. It's about reducing congestion in one of the most transit-rich areas of the country. If you want to drive in, when there's other alternatives available, you should pay for that.

It is 100% about revenue for the capital program. The whole purpose of government being able to borrow is to pay for infrastructure and other long term investments. This money should be coming out of NYS and the federal government. NYC is nothing without transit. They can find $1B for the capital program considering that they pay NOTHING for anything outside of MTA Bus.

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Realistic about what? You clearly aren't seeing the big picture. What you're proposing would likely push people out of the transit system and into their cars thereby meaning more vehicular congestion. There are some people that use public transit by choice because it is cheap (compared to driving). Tolls wouldn't be decreased.  Tolls and fees don't just go to the . They are used to pay for things you use... Bridges, street maintenance, etc., and the more people that drive, the more upkeep of those things is needed.

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sounds like he is really trying to focus on people that use their transfer for round trips.... So what if they do? A free transfer is a free transfer and how it is used should be up to the customer. 

It's a short-sighted take, but my thing is, there's no connection between what [(it appears that) he's suggesting] & [farebeating] anyway.... Not only is it not cogent, it's not even coherent.... He has a certain difficulty with expressing himself clearly & quite frankly, it's long gotten annoying... When you attempt to figure out just what the hell he's trying to convey, you're almost always wrong - and then he says something in response after the fact that has little to nothing to do with what he originally said.... When you address what he's saying on the surface (if your attempt to figure out wth he's trying to convey is actually correct) & he has no counter for it, he pivots....

IDK what the hell he's ultimately trying to get at with his suggestion (or whatever it's supposed to be), but either way, it sounds silly.

6 hours ago, JAzumah said:

It is 100% about revenue for the capital program. The whole purpose of government being able to borrow is to pay for infrastructure and other long term investments. This money should be coming out of NYS and the federal government. NYC is nothing without transit. They can find $1B for the capital program considering that they pay NOTHING for anything outside of MTA Bus.

Mostly, yes..... Your last statement however is one reason why I don't believe that this "solution" (finger quotes) of congestion pricing is fully about garnering funds for the MTA Capital Program.... I'm not exactly sure what, but something else is going on with this expeditious push for congestion pricing in this city (and I'm not talking about the whole, getting cars off the road bit either, as I too believe that to be a smokescreen)....

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

It's a short-sighted take, but my thing is, there's no connection between what [(it appears that) he's suggesting] & [farebeating] anyway.... Not only is it not cogent, it's not even coherent.... He has a certain difficulty with expressing himself clearly & quite frankly, it's long gotten annoying... When you attempt to figure out just what the hell he's trying to convey, you're almost always wrong - and then he says something in response after the fact that has little to nothing to do with what he originally said.... When you address what he's saying on the surface (if your attempt to figure out wth he's trying to convey is actually correct) & he has no counter for it, he pivots....

IDK what the hell he's ultimately trying to get at with his suggestion (or whatever it's supposed to be), but either way, it sounds silly.

Mostly, yes..... Your last statement however is one reason why I don't believe that this "solution" (finger quotes) of congestion pricing is fully about garnering funds for the MTA Capital Program.... I'm not exactly sure what, but something else is going on with this expeditious push for congestion pricing in this city (and I'm not talking about the whole, getting cars off the road bit either, as I too believe that to be a smokescreen)....

Using a transfer to do a roundtrip the way how I see it is farebeating, but now that a couple of people have told me I’m wrong I see it’s kind of a stupid take.

And by all means, if you think what I say is annoying, you can move on to the next post. I post here to get opinions on ideas, not to be called annoying. If you don’t understand something that I say then ask. It’s that simple.

[Lawrence St]

9 hours ago, JAzumah said:

It is 100% about revenue for the capital program. The whole purpose of government being able to borrow is to pay for infrastructure and other long term investments. This money should be coming out of NYS and the federal government. NYC is nothing without transit. They can find $1B for the capital program considering that they pay NOTHING for anything outside of MTA Bus.

That’s exactly it. And I concur with @B35 via Church, it’s something much bigger that they aren’t telling us with the smokescreen of just wanting to get cars off the road.

[B35 via Church]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Using a transfer to do a roundtrip the way how I see it is farebeating, but now that a couple of people have told me I’m wrong I see it’s kind of a stupid take.

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

And by all means, if you think what I say is annoying, you can move on to the next post. I post here to get opinions on ideas, not to be called annoying. If you don’t understand something that I say then ask. It’s that simple.

Yeah, and I come here for the purpose of discussing transit - preferably intelligently with people you don't have to whack through weeds & trudge through shit to try to figure out what they're ultimately trying to say.... I can move on to the next post, and you can express yourself more clearly to where myself & others won't have to keep asking you what do you mean by this, what do you mean with this, what do you mean by that, what is that supposed to mean.... Sorry not sorry you don't like the term, but to have to resort to that shit would be equally as annoying.... It's not "that simple" with you, because this apparent inability to consistently convey yourself clearly is & has been a running thing with you... I don't come here to have to not see what people are saying...

Now let's get to the meat & potatoes here, instead of the whole netiquette bit....

-----------------------------

- I mean honestly, your OP in this side discussion read "Unpopular opinion: reject transfers being done from different bus routes operating to the same terminal"...

- Then you gave two examples to (try to) quell confusion as to what said unpopular opinion entails....

- Then you go on some mini-rant, which read: "....And part of this argument I’m trying to make is because all the money that drivers like my self pay in tolls and soon congestion pricing is going to the MTA yet they can’t get their act together, so why should I and millions of other drivers be forced to pay for a system we hardly use? Fix the fare beating and discrepancies with the fare first then talk about CP."

Although I probably should, I'm not goin do the @Cait Sith with the 72pt font bit , but seriously:
Now how can anyone reasonably discern your "unpopular opinion" had anything to do with congestion pricing????? How???

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s exactly it. And I concur with @B35 via Church, it’s something much bigger that they aren’t telling us with the smokescreen of just wanting to get cars off the road.

Yeah, I'm not at all convinced that the MTA (or the city, for the matter) wants cars off the road, especially anymore than they want buses on them... Case in point, these bus network "redesigns"....

There's the running thought that goes, if you want congestion pricing to succeed, the aim is to INDUCE (and I'm not yelling at you btw) an increase of motorists on the roads, not less of them.... One way to go about doing that, esp. in a city like this? ROFL - Yeah, exacerbate the feasibility of people's commutes by way of public transit.... Rhetorical, but why should people have to come to work [smelling like a combination of perfume/cologne & funk] & [heavily breathing], riding bikes for 'x' amount of miles because public transit doesn't best suit their specific needs? Why is there an increasing amt. of people giving up on public transit & even resorting to driving in, or taking cabs/rideshare services (both of which are generally more expensive than public transit)? Neither of which factors in those that are now fully remote/WFH ever since 2020...

What we're seeing here with the MTA isn't even addition by subtraction as far as QoS (quality of service) is concerned, it's straight up subtractions.... Try to cram in as many suckers (commuters) as possible with a limited amt. of resources under the guise of progression.... For those that don't have cars, nor the money to shell out for cabs day in & day out (on multiple occasions per day, for some), there's only but so much of that, fighting to get on a bus crap that people are going to put up with... And (for some) to have to walk further to a bus stop also? Hah....

And that is just the transit aspect of it..... You'd have to be straight up gullible to believe that siphoned garnered funds from the public will be used/allocated the way that it is told to you, the public, that it will be.

[NBTA]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Using a transfer to do a roundtrip the way how I see it is farebeating, but now that a couple of people have told me I’m wrong I see it’s kind of a stupid take.

And by all means, if you think what I say is annoying, you can move on to the next post. I post here to get opinions on ideas, not to be called annoying. If you don’t understand something that I say then ask. It’s that simple.

Let’s use an example then…since you consider it fare beating. Let’s say, I take the Q5 across to Valley Stream, but I forgot something back at Jamaica, and just so happens that I get off at Merrick and Baisley, so a Q85 comes before the Q5 back, would that be fare beating too?

[Cait Sith]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Although I probably should, I'm not goin do the with the 72pt font bit , but seriously:

I'm glad that my(sometimes unnecessary) antics are remembered in some fashion .

 

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Using a transfer to do a roundtrip the way how I see it is farebeating, but now that a couple of people have told me I’m wrong I see it’s kind of a stupid take.

And by all means, if you think what I say is annoying, you can move on to the next post. I post here to get opinions on ideas, not to be called annoying. If you don’t understand something that I say then ask. It’s that simple.

It's not farebeating if you paid for said transfer, and you're using that same transfer on another line just to go back to where you came from.....that's like calling people who shop with coupons, shoplifters. If it's a farebeater requesting a transfer, then that's different, but paying customers? Yeah, it's a dumb take. Before I had solid income, I used to take advantage of such a thing when I lived in Manhattan, or whenever I would go shoot photos or videos in various locations.

For context, pre-2010 service cuts, I lived in the part of the Lower East Side where the M9 and M14A would run together(along Essex Street and along 14th Street), and the M9 would go to Union Square. I used to take advantage of whichever one came first to go to 14th Street, and take the other one back with a transfer within the transfer window. I don't quite understand the logic of how paying customers use transfers for a round-trip excursion would count as farebeating, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

As for the bolded part, as of late, between the forums and the chatbox, it seems like you've been on some form of auto-pilot lately with the way you've been posting, with some of your intended points coming off as incoherent especially when you sometimes drift off to another point that doesn't correlate with your original stance. I haven't been on the forums that often lately, but judging from the reactions of others, that's where the frustrations come from. It comes off as a incoherent rambling rant to a degree.

I would suggest thinking before you post, and formulate your posts properly.

[JAzumah]

15 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not exactly sure what, but something else is going on with this expeditious push for congestion pricing in this city (and I'm not talking about the whole, getting cars off the road bit either, as I too believe that to be a smokescreen)....

It will become just another MTA tax and they will siphon money out of the MTA budget for something else.

[Sylveon]

anyone else think that the L90, L91, L92, Q90, and Q92 routes are just a waste?

[SevenEleven]

29 minutes ago, Sylveon said:

anyone else think that the L90, L91, L92, Q90, and Q92 routes are just a waste?

They’re not routes. They’re just designations for long term shuttles. 

[IAlam]

 

On 1/15/2023 at 10:40 AM, Lawrence St said:

Using a transfer to do a roundtrip the way how I see it is farebeating, but now that a couple of people have told me I’m wrong I see it’s kind of a stupid take.

Something you're also missing is the fact that here in the tristate area we don't have day passes, unlike most other cities you can go to. Many other systems like CT and Toronto have 2 hours of unlimited trips per each fare you pay which makes it easier for people to do short trips. One of the biggest issues with the flat fare is that a long trip between Staten Island and the Bronx costs the same as a short 1 mile bus trip. If I'm going across Flushing to do shopping on most busy days it can take 15-30 minutes to go 1-2 miles. The travel times are pretty similar regardless if I walk, drive or take the bus. But the difference is I'm not walking home with a bunch of shopping bags, and if I have to pay $5.50 for a RT that's under 3 miles I'd rather drive. What your skipping over is the fact that those trips are usually very short unlike a one way trip from somewhere like Flushing to Manhattan which is 8-10 miles and I'm only paying $2.75 for that. 

Had the MTA had a similar 2hr unlimited ride system or a daily cap with OMNY it might have made a difference, but getting mad at people for not paying full price on a trip that doesn't merit it in the first place is just doesn't make sense. It's not like they're walking on the bus without paying which so many more people do. Your skipping the real problem to focus on a much smaller almost non issue really.

Edited January 17, 2023 by IAlam

[Calvin]

There's going to be heavy traffic and detours tomorrow in the Flushing area in Queens as the Lunar New Year parade takes place in Main St from 7 AM up to at least 3:30 PM. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Calvin

[Calvin]

Be careful when riding the buses because at this time being posted, someone was shot on the Bx5 on-board (other passengers were on-board as well in motion). Location is at Story Av near Metcalf Av. For now, NYPD has two suspects caught and looking for two more at the scene. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Calvin

[KDGallagher]

How come MTA supervisors aren’t able to give out tickets to people obstructing bus lanes and bus stops? 
 

MTAPD don’t really have much of a presence in nyc outside of stations and the nypd really couldn’t care less. 
 

Similar to how DSNY supervisors are able to ticket and generate revenue for their agency