BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[checkmatechamp13]

13 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Yeah, It's also more stressful when 2 buses come at once, you hop in the first one, but the bus behind it passes you and gets to your destination 5-10 minutes before your bus gets there. Sometimes the B/O is driving so slow that the next bus comes flying by. 

That's where BusTime comes in handy. You can see if there's another one a couple of minutes behind and hop on that one. (Also, sometimes you can get a feel if the driver is slow by how he/she approaches the stop. Does the B/O purposely miss the light before the stop, stuff like that)

[QM1to6Ave]

23 hours ago, East New York said:

It's not a Staten Island thing. It's a MTA thing. We have a thing called a Leader/Follower system. A lot of people thing when 2 buses arrive at the same time it is because they are bunched. However more times than not this is not the case. As one bus leaves a terminal, another is scheduled directly in front or behind it. This is done on every MTA local route that has high ridership. 

Say the schedule says bus is due 5:02, and 2 buses come. The next scheduled bus may be at 5:09, and one of the 2 buses you just saw is not on a public schedule. On local routes with standard 40 foot buses, they can get packed to a standing load sometimes at the first stop. So with this system the leader and follower chase each other down the line easing the load off the other. So more than one bus may be scheduled internally, but show up as one on the schedule because it's guaranteed that one will be to capacity. Now that the B35 has gone articulated for example, a follower typically leaves a few minutes later now. This is used at rush hour for most routes, and other times during the day and evenings for heavy routes like the B6 and others.

You all ever notice how the operators blow the horn (usually 2 short beep beeps) when passing the other? This is a signal that either the leader or follower is passing. It's also a safely alert that a bus is passing.

Are there ever more than 2 buses scheduled for be leader/followers together? I often see 3-4 Q46's all pull up within 10 seconds during off-peak times when there isn't much traffic, and I wonder if these are actual bunching or leader/followers

[B35 via Church]

16 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Are there ever more than 2 buses scheduled for be leader/followers together? I often see 3-4 Q46's all pull up within 10 seconds during off-peak times when there isn't much traffic, and I wonder if these are actual bunching or leader/followers

I used to benefit from that when I used to take the full route (LIJ) 5 days a week on the ride home.... Initially worked 1st shift, then (not too long after I left that job) requested to work a swing shift (12pm-8pm)... That time of night, it seemed like the Glen Oaks buses would pick up the bulk of pax. towards the subway & w/e bus I was on, would either pick up the remnants, or have an (unofficial) nonstop run from say, Parsons, to the subway....

If I were to guess, I'd say they're situations where an (initial) leader/follower coupling are getting slammed with pax. & whatever buses trailing it in that set of bunched buses are just cruising right along, eventually catching up....

[QM1to6Ave]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I used to benefit from that when I used to take the full route (LIJ) 5 days a week on the ride home.... Initially worked 1st shift, then (not too long after I left that job) requested to work a swing shift (12pm-8pm)... That time of night, it seemed like the Glen Oaks buses would pick up the bulk of pax. towards the subway & w/e bus I was on, would either pick up the remnants, or have an (unofficial) nonstop run from say, Parsons, to the subway....

If I were to guess, I'd say they're situations where an (initial) leader/follower coupling are getting slammed with pax. & whatever buses trailing it in that set of bunched buses are just cruising right along, eventually catching up....

I can't even imagine having to take the full route so often LOL. Sounds awful, even off-peak

[bobtehpanda]

On 9/22/2018 at 1:03 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

Hmm this definitely explains why I always see two buses back to back on the Q25 primarily on Saturdays (and other routes) . I always figured it had something to do with capacity, however I used to think that the MTA did it because those routes had the ridership for artic buses but since the depots didn’t have them, that was a temporary solution. But yeah this makes a lot of sense now.

Just one question though, if a route has scheduled runs at 5:02 and 5:10 and the 5:02 run has 2 buses set to run couldn’t a solution to that be to have the route run more frequently? So instead now you have one run at 5:02, 5:06 and 5:10 which would eliminate having two buses leaving at the same time. I know with NYC traffic and stop dwelling may cause the runs to end up bunched together anyways. 

 

18 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Are there ever more than 2 buses scheduled for be leader/followers together? I often see 3-4 Q46's all pull up within 10 seconds during off-peak times when there isn't much traffic, and I wonder if these are actual bunching or leader/followers

So I totally don't work there, but these are my 2 cents on the topic.

During the peak (and heck, sometimes during the offpeak) the crowds getting off at Kew Gardens for the Q46, and the crowds getting off at 179 for the Q43, are far too large for one bus to handle. Q46 has the several bus stands to handle overflow; in the past I would often see extra buses for the Q43 start at 179 right after a bus arrival from Jamaica, which I would assume would be the leader/follower system.

Because it's so bursty (basically whenever a train comes), it's actually better to have the buses show up both at the same time; if a bus showed up in between trains, it wouldn't pick up anyone and wouldn't ease overcrowding. So it's good to have bursts of buses if there's a really obvious stop with timed surges in demand.

Of course, the whole exercise is kind of irrelevant during peak of peak because the trains are basically every two minutes, and waiting for either of those buses I used as an example is basically miserable. (Which is why I switched to using the N22 for those trips instead of the Q43.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that what those lines really need are express-ish variants. The LTDs should really be a Q46X or a Q43X that makes no stops till Springfield. So the ideal service pattern would be (as an example)

Q46 local - local to Springfield

Q46 LTD - limited until Springfield, to 260th

Q46X - express to Springfield, to LIJ

[TheNewYorkElevated]

For those who were at Atlantic Antic but didn't see any vintage buses today, the Transit Museum is holding the bus fest next month. 

https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/program/busfest2018/ 

[Lil 57]

Question: Why do some bus routes in NYC continue to serve destinations when everything is closed. For example, Why does the S46 continue to serve West Shore Plaza during Late Nights when It's closed and there are no residents below the SIE. (Maybe for the people that are staying in the Hotels on South Ave, but they have a free ferry shuttle and I don't think that ridership comes from the hotels.) Wouldn't it make sense and save money by truncating the S46 to Marines Harber late nights? The same thing goes with the S40 serving Matrix Park during the late nights. It's closed. Ending them at their old terminal would also make sense during the late nights. (I also think the S44/94, S59 and S79 should also run on Marsh Ave when the Mall is closed. Makes a lot more sense.)

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lil 57

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

Question: Why do some bus routes in NYC continue to serve destinations when everything is closed. For example, Why does the S46 continue to serve West Shore Plaza during Late Nights when It's closed and there are no residents below the SIE. (Maybe for the people that are staying in the Hotels on South Ave, but they have a free ferry shuttle and I don't think that ridership comes from the hotels.) Wouldn't it make sense and save money by truncating the S46 to Marines Harber late nights? The same thing goes with the S40 serving Matrix Park during the late nights. It's closed. Ending them at their old terminal would also make sense during the late nights. (I also think the S44/94, S59 and S79 should also run on Marsh Ave when the Mall is closed. Makes a lot more sense.)

The places may be closed but that doesn't mean that workers leave immediately. Often times the workers are still inside for hours, cleaning and closing the store or restaurant so those people need service. There's also other staff like security guards that need that service.

[Lil 57]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The places may be closed but that doesn't mean that workers leave immediately. Often times the workers are still inside for hours, cleaning and closing the store or restaurant so those people need service. There's also other staff like security guards that need that service.

Makes sense. Better to have the service.

[B35 via Church]

19 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

 

So I totally don't work there, but these are my 2 cents on the topic.

During the peak (and heck, sometimes during the offpeak) the crowds getting off at Kew Gardens for the Q46, and the crowds getting off at 179 for the Q43, are far too large for one bus to handle. Q46 has the several bus stands to handle overflow; in the past I would often see extra buses for the Q43 start at 179 right after a bus arrival from Jamaica, which I would assume would be the leader/follower system.

Because it's so bursty (basically whenever a train comes), it's actually better to have the buses show up both at the same time; if a bus showed up in between trains, it wouldn't pick up anyone and wouldn't ease overcrowding. So it's good to have bursts of buses if there's a really obvious stop with timed surges in demand.

Of course, the whole exercise is kind of irrelevant during peak of peak because the trains are basically every two minutes, and waiting for either of those buses I used as an example is basically miserable. (Which is why I switched to using the N22 for those trips instead of the Q43.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that what those lines really need are express-ish variants. The LTDs should really be a Q46X or a Q43X that makes no stops till Springfield. So the ideal service pattern would be (as an example)

Q46 local - local to Springfield

Q46 LTD - limited until Springfield, to 260th

Q46X - express to Springfield, to LIJ

I get the logic, but I'm not so sure trying to "n22" the Q46 would really work.... There would be too great an imbalance of pax. b/w the 46 LTD's & the 46x's; the latter would more or less be LIJ shuttles east of Springfield (although I would have appreciated such a service a decade or so ago.... Lol)..... Most folks would still take the LTD... The usage of the Q46x IMO would be a little better than that of the (failed) n22L.....

[JeremiahC99]

Question: When was the turnaround for the B35 and B70 modified to go on 1st Avenue, 41st Street, and 2nd Avenue to get back onto 39th Street instead of using the bus loop on the north side of 39th Street? I saw a video from September 11th showing the XN60s going through that loop instead of going via 41st Street. Even BusTime has this new route for both routes.

Edited September 24, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[bobtehpanda]

9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I get the logic, but I'm not so sure trying to "n22" the Q46 would really work.... There would be too great an imbalance of pax. b/w the 46 LTD's & the 46x's; the latter would more or less be LIJ shuttles east of Springfield (although I would have appreciated such a service a decade or so ago.... Lol)..... Most folks would still take the LTD... The usage of the Q46x IMO would be a little better than that of the (failed) n22L.....

It's a bit of a tricky scenario, because I don't want to prevent transfers between local buses and services east of Springfield. Maybe to prevent that, have the 46LTD end at Main St, and not transfer at Kew Gardens at all.

Q46 LTDs right now are too crowded because they're trying to be everything and then kind of falling flat. The N22L was a misfire because the N22 doesn't have the headways to justify all the crazy variants they were trying to pull; but the Q46 runs like water during the peak. But the N22 itself, relative to the Q43, is actually pretty good; it's 20 minutes from 179 to Cherry Lane, and I'd say you'd probably see 5-10% of the bus get off at that single stop.

Honestly, of all the routes double deckers could be on, the Q46 would be a great candidate, since a good portion of the ridership is traveling very long distances.

Edited September 24, 2018 by bobtehpanda

[Melbx15]

I’m hearing that buses at kingsbridge depot are be quarantined for having bed bugs at least 45 buses 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Melbx15

[checkmatechamp13]

On 9/23/2018 at 9:56 PM, Lil 57 said:

Question: Why do some bus routes in NYC continue to serve destinations when everything is closed. For example, Why does the S46 continue to serve West Shore Plaza during Late Nights when It's closed and there are no residents below the SIE. (Maybe for the people that are staying in the Hotels on South Ave, but they have a free ferry shuttle and I don't think that ridership comes from the hotels.) Wouldn't it make sense and save money by truncating the S46 to Marines Harber late nights? The same thing goes with the S40 serving Matrix Park during the late nights. It's closed. Ending them at their old terminal would also make sense during the late nights. (I also think the S44/94, S59 and S79 should also run on Marsh Ave when the Mall is closed. Makes a lot more sense.)

Personally, I think all the local buses should either run on Marsh or the back part of Ring Road (the part that the S79 travels on by itself, which eventually leads to Platinum Avenue). It serves the homes and schools in addition to the mall itself (granted, I know most of the new construction is on the Richmond Avenue side, but people can still walk through the mall to get to their respective destination within it)

And yeah, like VG8 said there's a lot of overnight workers at Amazon and at the South Avenue hotels (I know a few of them who live in the Elm Park area). Granted, shifts usually don't start at 3am (usually they start at like 11pm or midnight) but still, issues come up and sometimes people have to come or leave at an unexpected time. 

[Lil 57]

I noticed that the  is placing "Customers Count" Surveys at every seat of their buses.

[S78 via Hylan]

Alright folks, what were some of the last rides you remember catching on bus models that have been retired?

I’ll start:

1996 Orion V: 671 on the Q32 and 184 (ex-bee line) on the Bx23

1997-98 RTS: 94xx on the B57

1999 Orion V: 6095 on the S40 and 6025 on the Q50

1999 Orion V CNG: 9899 on the Q66

2000 New Flyer C40LF CNG: 881 or 898 on the B16

2000 New Flyer D60HF: 1002 on the M15

2002 MCI D4500 (I know there’s still some of these running, but this is the last one I’ve caught so far): 2868 on the X42

2003 Orion 7 CNG: 7560 on the B43

Edited September 26, 2018 by S78 via Hylan

[RTSTdrive]

5 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

Alright folks, what were some of the last rides you remember catching on bus models that have been retired?

I’ll start:

1996 Orion V: 671 on the Q32 and 184 (ex-bee line) on the Bx23

1997-98 RTS: 94xx on the B57

1999 Orion V: 6095 on the S40 and 6025 on the Q50

1999 Orion V CNG: 9899 on the Q66

2000 New Flyer D60HF: 1002 on the M15

2002 MCI D4500 (I know there’s still some of these running, but this is the last one I’ve caught so far): 2868 on the X42

2003 Orion 7 CNG: 7560 on the B43

All of the exact unit's numbers I forgot about but here they are

1997-98 RTS: B47 and B6 Limited

1999 Orion 5 CNG: B103

1999 Orion 5 Diesel: B47, B60, and Q20A

1999-2000 C40LF: B8 and B35

2000 D60HF: M101 Limited

2003 Orion 7 CNG: B100 and B103 (Funny enough I was actually by Flatbush Junction at around the same time someone took a video of one on it's second to last day of service)

[Orion6025]

1996 RTS: Not retired yet but I don't plan on riding one anytime soon anyway so it was probably on the q104 or q60. Forgot the number though

1997-1998 RTS: 9674 on the Q59

1999 Orion V: 6025 on the Q50

1991-2001 D60HF: 1016 on the M23

2002 Orion VII CNG: 7560 on the b43

all the others i've long since forgotten but for the V CNGs, probably was the Q104, the 1994 TMCs and 1997 Orions on the q60, 1996 orions on the q32, my last 2001 mci ride was on the qm40 and it will likely stay that way since those two hardly run nowadays., as for the ex-bee line orions, that would probably be on the q104 also...

[Yankees4life]

5 hours ago, RTSTdrive said:

All of the exact unit's numbers I forgot about but here they are

1997-98 RTS: B47 and B6 Limited

1999 Orion 5 CNG: B103

1999 Orion 5 Diesel: B47, B60, and Q20A

1999-2000 C40LF: B8 and B35

2000 D60HF: M101 Limited

2003 Orion 7 CNG: B100 and B103 (Funny enough I was actually by Flatbush Junction at around the same time someone took a video of one on it's second to last day of service)

There are too many to list so I won't even bother

[Brillant93]

Reminder to all you fans who like to take pictures and videos. This Friday is the last day for the B82 limited. So get your pics and videos taken before that evening. 

[SIMplicity]

On 9/25/2018 at 6:25 AM, Lil 57 said:

I noticed that the  is placing "Customers Count" Surveys at every seat of their buses.

And I noticed that there are “Customers Count” Surveys all over the floor of the express buses 😁 that would explain it

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, SIMplicity said:

And I noticed that there are “Customers Count” Surveys all over the floor of the express buses 😁 that would explain it

They falling off of the seats at the very first stop... 

[checkmatechamp13]

I think they had some pamphlet advertising the new express system at the beginning (in August) but I don't recall them being all over the floor like these surveys.

[Lil 57]

22 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

And I noticed that there are “Customers Count” Surveys all over the floor of the express buses 😁 that would explain it

The Local buses are worse🤣

[trainfan22]

Went by Trump Tower today, surprisingly, traffic wasn't that bad. Predsidian traffic seemed lighter than usual for that area. Was expecting more lookie loos (that was the reason I was in the area) since cheeto was in town for UN. Didn't want to or expect to see Trump I just wanted to see the over the top security measures😄

 

 

I only saw Manthattanville buses travelling down 5th, the SI express buses were going W/B on 57th. No idea where the Brooklyn express routes were running.

 

I was expecting the area to be complete gridlock and chaos, but it was super calm, to the point it was eerie. The MTV buses I saw flowed right though smoothly.

Edited September 27, 2018 by trainfan22