BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[R10 2952]

Question, anyone recall why some of the RTSes from Green Lines and Jamaica Buses had vertical tail lights, instead of the standard horizontal ones?

For reference:

 

 

[GojiMet86]

48 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Question, anyone recall why some of the RTSes from Green Lines and Jamaica Buses had vertical tail lights, instead of the standard horizontal ones?

Why, I don't know. But the 1150-1189 series has them, and that Jamaica one was a former Green Lines from this exact series. I had to use my Imgur, can't seem to directly insert the photo's url from BusTalk.

3853 was former GBL 1189.

[R10 2952]

3 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

Why, I don't know. But the 1150-1189 series has them, and that Jamaica one was a former Green Lines from this exact series. I had to use my Imgur, can't seem to directly insert the photo's url from BusTalk.

3853 was former GBL 1189.

Interesting; I definitely remember the Jamaica Bus units from their last days, when they were transferred after the MTA takeover to ex-Triboro routes to bump off some older '85-'86 models.

From the link, it looks like this one-off series of units were all built from late 1993 to mid-1994; I'm guessing perhaps they were part of a larger order placed by another agency somewhere else in the country.  Wouldn't be surprised, seeing how not long after this Green Lines got those WMATA-reject Orion Vs with the annoyingly narrow rear door and tacky vinyl bench seats.

What's funny is how NJT also had vertical tail lights on their RTSes, but not in the same configuration; yet another variation from the standard version- well, that and those weird flush-styled rear doors, anyway:

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by R10 2952

[MHV9218]

42 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Interesting; I definitely remember the Jamaica Bus units from their last days, when they were transferred after the MTA takeover to ex-Triboro routes to bump off some older '85-'86 models.

From the link, it looks like this one-off series of units were all built from late 1993 to mid-1994; I'm guessing perhaps they were part of a larger order placed by another agency somewhere else in the country.  Wouldn't be surprised, seeing how not long after this Green Lines got those WMATA-reject Orion Vs with the annoyingly narrow rear door and tacky vinyl bench seats.

What's funny is how NJT also had vertical tail lights on their RTSes, but not in the same configuration; yet another variation from the standard version- well, that and those weird flush-styled rear doors, anyway:

 

This reminds me of one of the mysteries I never understood: how 9267 ended up with a bulkhead off an MBTA RTS, with dummy spots for taillights at the top corners. Sort of like 5057 with an ex-PBL engine cover as well...

[SevenEleven]

@R10 2952 The flush rear doors were actually the standard configuration. 
 

8 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

This reminds me of one of the mysteries I never understood: how 9267 ended up with a bulkhead off an MBTA RTS, with dummy spots for taillights at the top corners. Sort of like 5057 with an ex-PBL engine cover as well...

Well that solves that life long childhood mystery

[biGC323232]

13 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

Why, I don't know. But the 1150-1189 series has them, and that Jamaica one was a former Green Lines from this exact series. I had to use my Imgur, can't seem to directly insert the photo's url from BusTalk.

3853 was former GBL 1189.

Dam bro you brought me back many years with these photos....Green line and jamaica buses was my primary lines back in the 90s....

[R10 2952]

I lived in Triboro Coach and Queens Surface territory growing up.  QS buses were arguably in the best shape of all the PBL buses; TC was hit-and-miss because their suburban-seat Orion Vs were great but their TMC RTSes were raggedy.

GL and JB always seemed on their last legs with those patched-up GMC RTSes and MCI Classics.

Command, Liberty Lines, and New York Bus Service I never rode, so no idea what those were like.

[4 via Mosholu]

30 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

I lived in Triboro Coach and Queens Surface territory growing up.  QS buses were arguably in the best shape of all the PBL buses; TC was hit-and-miss because their suburban-seat Orion Vs were great but their TMC RTSes were raggedy.

GL and JB always seemed on their last legs with those patched-up GMC RTSes and MCI Classics.

Command, Liberty Lines, and New York Bus Service I never rode, so no idea what those were like.

I lived near a Liberty Lines Express route and I once rode on the school buses that were assigned to New York Bus Service and Command (as Varsity Bus Company). But I only really began to ride Liberty Lines Express routes (the BxM11 and the BxM4) when I was in college and after I left college. Jamaica Buses was when I was coming back from York College to pick up a book or two for my class at Lehman and Borough of Manhattan, and Green Bus Lines was when I needed to be over at the area around Continental as a result of a family emergency. As far as Command goes, I only rode the 103 in and out of the Canarsie area once, as I mostly took the Brooklyn and Queens route B6 LIMITED out and into the Bush. Queens Surface, it was either the 25 or the 34 that I took to Queens College as they were much closer than the 17 or the 88. New York Bus Service, my most recent bus ride was out on the BxM10 - though I got on the Q50 many times before. I once got on a 149 to 180 Express Subway Shuttle that was operated by Triboro Coach and the Q39 with its RTS, as well as the LaGuardia half of the 33 (that is, the 70 LaGuardia Link).

Those recent bus trips on the Private Bus Lines were after they were taken over, though I haven't yet gotten on Triboro Coach's longest route, the 53. I really want to get on it before they cut it up into awkward portions.

Edited January 19, 2022 by 4 via Mosholu

[GojiMet86]

I don't recall riding many buses growing up, I basically walked to both elementary and junior high, and I took the subway for high school. I did take the Q19A and the Q101 because they are the neighborhood buses. But there was a summer where I did take the Q29 alot. And the only times I know for sure I took Green Bus would have been when going to JFK on the Q10.

[P3F]

Living in southern Brooklyn, my main memories of PBLs were the Command B100s and Green Bus Lines Q35s. I did also see Q22s terminating while waiting for the Q35 home from the beach. I remember the first time I saw a Q35 with a green flipdot front sign, thinking it was a nice upgrade over the rollsigns they usually had.

Edited January 19, 2022 by P3F

[NewFlyer 230]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:36 PM, GojiMet86 said:

Why, I don't know. But the 1150-1189 series has them, and that Jamaica one was a former Green Lines from this exact series. I had to use my Imgur, can't seem to directly insert the photo's url from BusTalk.

3853 was former GBL 1189.

 

 

 

Ahh the memories of the early 2000’s when NYC was dominated by the RTS. You could find RTS buses in different color schemes and then everything became blue.

Seeing that picture of the Q60 reminds me of how far that route has came since it’s days under Green Lines. I remember how unreliable that route used to be and then on top of that it was so slow because of how many stops it had. Now it’s one of my favorite Queens routes to fan besides the Q44 and Q53. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by NewFlyer 230

[EastFlatbushLarry]

speaking along the lines of PBL's, i do have a question. how was training carried out amongst the PBL's in regards to the Bus Operators? was there one central facility for NYCDOT to train all operators regardless of company affiliation or was it carried out at the individual companies? stupid question i guess, but I've had this on my brain going back to high school (2001-2005) and somehow I've never asked 🤷🏾‍♂️

[paulrivera]

Those individual foldable seats on the new hybrids really do come in clutch when you have luggage or those little shopping tote cart thingys (and of course if you have a walker too.) Pull the yellow handle under the seat and bam, you have room for your bulky item next to you without having it in the aisle.

Best thing the  has done for the local buses since bringing in the wifi and USB chargers.

Edited January 19, 2022 by paulrivera

[4 via Mosholu]

3 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

speaking along the lines of PBL's, i do have a question. how was training carried out amongst the PBL's in regards to the Bus Operators? was there one central facility for NYCDOT to train all operators regardless of company affiliation or was it carried out at the individual companies? stupid question i guess, but I've had this on my brain going back to high school (2001-2005) and somehow I've never asked 🤷🏾‍♂️

I think bus driver training for the Private Bus Lines was carried out at the individual companies, particularly with New York Bus Service and Command since they also operated school buses before the takeover.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

Currently in the process of getting the MTA to start a pilot to have 20 transit cops patrol buses all day on Staten Island, riding various routes, then returning for their "swing" at the ferry. Cops will be present on local buses (for now), riding up and down the lines. Anyone who gets on and tries to walk on will be confronted by the cop and needs to either a) pay on spot to continue riding, or b) get off the bus. Can be applied to groups or any individuals trying to board. Pay or walk off. No tickets, no summons. Just allow people too see what's goin on, and have this continue for an entire year. Once its consistent, people will board with proper fares. After one month, expand to The Bronx, then Brooklyn, then Queens, then Manhattan. 100 cops patrolling buses throughout NYC on a daily basis. That's all, that's it. Keep this system on a test phase for a year, watch how fast lost farebeating revenue decreases. It needs to start this year, enough with the BS. 

[NewFlyer 230]

18 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Currently in the process of getting the MTA to start a pilot to have 20 transit cops patrol buses all day on Staten Island, riding various routes, then returning for their "swing" at the ferry. Cops will be present on local buses (for now), riding up and down the lines. Anyone who gets on and tries to walk on will be confronted by the cop and needs to either a) pay on spot to continue riding, or b) get off the bus. Can be applied to groups or any individuals trying to board. Pay or walk off. No tickets, no summons. Just allow people too see what's goin on, and have this continue for an entire year. Once its consistent, people will board with proper fares. After one month, expand to The Bronx, then Brooklyn, then Queens, then Manhattan. 100 cops patrolling buses throughout NYC on a daily basis. That's all, that's it. Keep this system on a test phase for a year, watch how fast lost farebeating revenue decreases. It needs to start this year, enough with the BS. 

I think a program like this is long overdue but I wonder if it will last. There are folks I see who never make any effort to pay the fare but would probably be the first to say something like, “these racist a** pigs won’t let me ride the bus”. However it is clear that the fare is $2.75 so why should you be allowed to ride for free when everyone else has to pay? 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

12 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I think a program like this is long overdue but I wonder if it will last. There are folks I see who never make any effort to pay the fare but would probably be the first to say something like, “these racist a** pigs won’t let me ride the bus”. However it is clear that the fare is $2.75 so why should you be allowed to ride for free when everyone else has to pay? 

I've been telling the folks at the MTA that there's no type of subjection because the rules apply to anyone. Its not picking who they want to fine, its not stop and frisk. If you board and pass the driver without paying, you have the option to either to pay per the cops request or automatically be removed from the bus if you don't have the proper form of payment (Metrocard, coins or OMNY). 

 

The only issue is the police have been relaxed with small crimes as of late, so if police can't keep the streets under law and order, this pilot can create animosity on buses. The no bus paying culture is rooted so deep across the city, any implementation across the board would have to be heavily and consistently enforced, so people do not feel "targeted". It needs to be publicized across the media, advertised, and all the above, so the word can go around that shit is getting real. That's the only issue with launching this right now, getting enough labor to start this pilot in full force. But I'm working on it to start this year, hopefully to be implemented by Summer or Fall. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

5 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

I think bus driver training for the Private Bus Lines was carried out at the individual companies, particularly with New York Bus Service and Command since they also operated school buses before the takeover.

thank you for this, because now that you mention it, i vaguely remember the NYBS training classroom on wheels in lower Manhattan (the bulky blue International bus) and i also remember Varsity Transportation. I've always wondered what the set up was with those PBL companies in comparison to TA/OA... the similarities, differences... or if there were any differences from an employee aspect (it's well documented that the passenger experience changed, in some cases for the better... if you ask my homeboy that grew up in Co-op, in regards to QBx1 vs the Bx23/Q50, he begs to differ)

My experience with PBL's as a youth was damn near non existent. i mean, i never rode Command bus until I was attending South Shore, and although i had family living in Edgemere projects, i never rode the Q22 or 35 to/from Brooklyn back in the Green Lines days. most of my PBL experience came seconds before the takeover as I was just getting ready to figure out what to do before/after graduating h.s.

[Trainmaster5]

Speaking of PBL offhand does anyone remember the Green Lines bus route that terminated at New Lots Avenue and Ashford St. Stop was adjacent to the drug store but for some reason the route # escapes me. TIA. Back to the topic at hand. Carry on.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

28 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Speaking of PBL offhand does anyone remember the Green Lines bus route that terminated at New Lots Avenue and Ashford St. Stop was adjacent to the drug store but for some reason the route # escapes me. TIA. Back to the topic at hand. Carry on.

I think you might be referring to the Q21A. That's the only Green Lines route that I recall going into that part of Brooklyn. 

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I think you might be referring to the Q21A. That's the only Green Lines route that I recall going into that part of Brooklyn. 

Maybe that's why that "21" was in the back of my mind. Thanks.

[paulrivera]

6 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Currently in the process of getting the MTA to start a pilot to have 20 transit cops patrol buses all day on Staten Island, riding various routes, then returning for their "swing" at the ferry. Cops will be present on local buses (for now), riding up and down the lines. Anyone who gets on and tries to walk on will be confronted by the cop and needs to either a) pay on spot to continue riding, or b) get off the bus. Can be applied to groups or any individuals trying to board. Pay or walk off. No tickets, no summons. Just allow people too see what's goin on, and have this continue for an entire year. Once its consistent, people will board with proper fares. After one month, expand to The Bronx, then Brooklyn, then Queens, then Manhattan. 100 cops patrolling buses throughout NYC on a daily basis. That's all, that's it. Keep this system on a test phase for a year, watch how fast lost farebeating revenue decreases. It needs to start this year, enough with the BS. 

Good luck with the Manhattan portion. I don't think the cops are gonna be willing to put their necks on the line with that quack of a D.A. on the job...

[R10 2952]

11 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Good luck with the Manhattan portion. I don't think the cops are gonna be willing to put their necks on the line with that quack of a D.A. on the job...

Ultimately, Bragg's lackadaisical approach is probably going to be the catalyst Adams needs to call for both:

a) consolidation of all City boroughs into a single county instead of five

b) a referendum initiative to make the DA an appointed position instead of an elected one

 

Both overdue changes, in my honest opinion.

Edited January 20, 2022 by R10 2952

[Mtatransit]

4 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Currently in the process of getting the MTA to start a pilot to have 20 transit cops patrol buses all day on Staten Island, riding various routes, then returning for their "swing" at the ferry. Cops will be present on local buses (for now), riding up and down the lines. Anyone who gets on and tries to walk on will be confronted by the cop and needs to either a) pay on spot to continue riding, or b) get off the bus. Can be applied to groups or any individuals trying to board. Pay or walk off. No tickets, no summons. Just allow people too see what's goin on, and have this continue for an entire year. Once its consistent, people will board with proper fares. After one month, expand to The Bronx, then Brooklyn, then Queens, then Manhattan. 100 cops patrolling buses throughout NYC on a daily basis. That's all, that's it. Keep this system on a test phase for a year, watch how fast lost farebeating revenue decreases. It needs to start this year, enough with the BS. 

Been trying to get the MTA to do something about fare evasion for months now. Still don't see any action, while 3/4 of the passengers on the bus don't pay in Staten Island.

I do like your idea however. But the sense of entitlement I seen in boarding buses for free, makes me tilt more towards harsher fines than just getting off the bus and getting on the next one for free. I guess its better than nothing

From my experience, Manhattan has more farebeating passengers than Queens. Could be where I am (Jackson heights) most people transfer to the subway anyways. But even in major hubs, such as Flushing, the amount of farebeating is nowhere to the tune of people not paying at say St George or along 125th Street or at "The Hub". (one of the reason why buses are so slow through Flushing (too many people pay!) versus half the people walking by the driver/entering through the backdoor.

5 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I've been telling the folks at the MTA that there's no type of subjection because the rules apply to anyone. Its not picking who they want to fine, its not stop and frisk. If you board and pass the driver without paying, you have the option to either to pay per the cops request or automatically be removed from the bus if you don't have the proper form of payment (Metrocard, coins or OMNY). 

 

The only issue is the police have been relaxed with small crimes as of late, so if police can't keep the streets under law and order, this pilot can create animosity on buses. The no bus paying culture is rooted so deep across the city, any implementation across the board would have to be heavily and consistently enforced, so people do not feel "targeted". It needs to be publicized across the media, advertised, and all the above, so the word can go around that shit is getting real. That's the only issue with launching this right now, getting enough labor to start this pilot in full force. But I'm working on it to start this year, hopefully to be implemented by Summer or Fall. 

I don't understand why race has to be part of the discussion. Plenty of minorities cough up the $2.75 each and every day to pay the fare. If they pay, they won't get a ticket, simple as that. 

I mean if you really want to catch some "non-minorities" just take the S79 along Hylan Blvd or the S74 south of Eltingville. Fare beating is prevalent down there as well.

Honestly I think the entire SI system should just be a proof of payment system at this point. Activate the OMNY backdoor reader, Metrocard/coin passengers board through the front, dip and take transfer which is valid for 2 hrs of unlimited ride within the borough 

[JAzumah]

14 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Speaking of PBL offhand does anyone remember the Green Lines bus route that terminated at New Lots Avenue and Ashford St. Stop was adjacent to the drug store but for some reason the route # escapes me. TIA. Back to the topic at hand. Carry on.

Q21A