LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[danielhg121]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I particularly don’t understand why they shortened the trains to begin with. I get that GCM can only hold 10 cars, but why did everything else in the system get reduced to 10 or less?

I believe GCM can hold 12 car trains. Where did you hear they can only hold 10 car trains?

As for the second question, they've increased service requirements from I believe it was 780 or 790 cars during the peak to 910 cars which is almost maxing out the LIRR fleet. To increase service on the Atlantic branch, I believe they had to increase the number of cars needed. So as they run more trains, they need to downsize some of the 12-car trains to 8 or 10 cars and that has caused overcrowding on some trains.

[N6 Limited]

It appears that they’re using track 2 at Jamaica for many of the westbound trains, at least during the midday. While westbound services from the Branches tend to alternate between Penn and GCM, in Jamaica it’s seemingly random.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

19 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I'm reading online that NYP is still a far more popular destination than GCM for LIRR riders so far.

I wonder if LIRR was expecting a 50/50 balance between NYP and GCM terminals in terms of ridership.

Twitter is going off on the schedule changes, it's honestly hilarious.

I've been noticing during the rush, there can be upwards of up to 100 people IN EACH CAR of a train going to Penn Station or Atlantic Terminal. However someone posted a pic of just 5 people in one car of a train to Grand Central in the morning.

 

I know that full service just started two days ago, but the disparity is astonishing.

[mfs NJT459]

Now they’re going to lengthen some trains to 12 cars (paywall) https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-island/transportation/lirr-train-length-grand-central-madison-day-three-ch9i2g80

[Via Garibaldi 8]

32 minutes ago, mfs NJT459 said:

Now they’re going to lengthen some trains to 12 cars (paywall) https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-island/transportation/lirr-train-length-grand-central-madison-day-three-ch9i2g80

They're only doing that because there has been a huge uproar from MANY LIRR riders and there has been media coverage on this mess. I've been tagging a few reporters myself that cover the LIRR. It's a disgrace. They had months to prepare for this and come out with shortened trains among other nonsense leading to dangerous overcrowding levels.

[Calvin]

For the recent changes on the LIRR, most seats on all cars were entirely filled going to/from their destinations. It was crowded during their peak commutes. 

However, at 0:30 , the LIRR had a new stop in the system, McDonalds. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Calvin

[IAlam]

21 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The schedules are ridiculous. I've seen countless posts from LIRR commuters livid about overcrowded trains from Penn while they run empty trains from GCM along with the insane transfer conditions where people have to transfer at Jamaica with minutes to spare and then RUN up escalators or stairs to get to the other platform to avoid missing their transfer, when before they had direct service or had a train right across the platform.  Another example of the  not giving a damn about their customers. 

It doesn't help now all eastbound trains are constantly rotating from tracks 4-8 depending on which terminal the train comes from and while I was there today I saw a Babylon train pull into track 5 with the following Babylon train on track 8. Not only are the connections not guaranteed you need to know which track your train is going to come to in advance and it's constantly changing. 

Today I saw 2 trains pull in at the same time one on track 6 and the other on track 8 meaning they couldn't make the cross-platform transfer even though there was no train on track 7. A bunch of people ran up the overpass with only a lucky handful making it in time. The LIRR needs to really look at the ability of passengers to cross over, there are only 2 overpasses for passengers to use with only the main one with a narrow escalator. Jamaica's design was overbuilt for its old schedule system, but it's underbuilt for the current one.

Also, the Woodside transfer to PW is awful, with 10-15 waits for your connection. At that point, the  train can become faster for me than having to transfer. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 hours ago, IAlam said:

It doesn't help now all eastbound trains are constantly rotating from tracks 4-8 depending on which terminal the train comes from and while I was there today I saw a Babylon train pull into track 5 with the following Babylon train on track 8. Not only are the connections not guaranteed you need to know which track your train is going to come to in advance and it's constantly changing. 

Today I saw 2 trains pull in at the same time one on track 6 and the other on track 8 meaning they couldn't make the cross-platform transfer even though there was no train on track 7. A bunch of people ran up the overpass with only a lucky handful making it in time. The LIRR needs to really look at the ability of passengers to cross over, there are only 2 overpasses for passengers to use with only the main one with a narrow escalator. Jamaica's design was overbuilt for its old schedule system, but it's underbuilt for the current one.

Also, the Woodside transfer to PW is awful, with 10-15 waits for your connection. At that point, the  train can become faster for me than having to transfer. 

Their attitude is that trains are too frequent now to hold them and so basically they expect people to not only transfer but to also wait longer to do so when they've already elongated the commutes of many people with these asinine schedules.

Most of the media and people from the outside are only focusing on the new train station, which already had leaks on day two, but not on how abysmal the service situation is.  When you consider that they put out schedules in advance to get feedback from riders, this is even more of a **** up to put it bluntly.  If you're able bodied, you can perhaps run around like this, but for anyone with mobility issues or that is elderly, forget it.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

When you consider that they put out schedules in advance to get feedback from riders, this is even more of a **** up to put it bluntly. 

Well that’s the thing, why are there so many “Surprised” commuters?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Well that’s the thing, why are there so many “Surprised” commuters?

Some people have still been working from home and are just returning to commuting.  Then you have people that have been following the schedules and didn't like them and you have the  which has planned this poorly to say the least.

[mfs NJT459]

 

[Mtatransit]

At the end of the day as nice as GCT is, there is not much near GCT compared to Penn especially on weekends and off peak hours. I would think that off peak riders would much prefer Penn than GCT

As for work commuters, this is a casualty of the pandemic, many offices near Park Ave/Lexington Ave are actually either downsizing and moving to Hudson Yards out of all the places

I'm still of the opinion that if it wasn't that the MTA already sunk billions of dollar into this project, I would argue it should've been cancelled around 2010 with the funding used to improve Hunterspoint Avenue and/or Atlantic Terminal

[Lawrence St]

I personally like it because it’s a quicker way to get into Queens and Long Island from MNRR, what I don’t like is the disproportionate schedules between all branches. Like there’s a train stopping at Woodside leaving in 3, 12, 21 minutes and then the next isn’t for another 36 minutes. 
 

Then the next thing is the transfer it’s self, it should not take close to 15 minutes to walk from GC to GCM.

Theres also no cell service in the tunnels which sucks.

[Mtatransit]

12 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I personally like it because it’s a quicker way to get into Queens and Long Island from MNRR, what I don’t like is the disproportionate schedules between all branches. Like there’s a train stopping at Woodside leaving in 3, 12, 21 minutes and then the next isn’t for another 36 minutes. 
 

Then the next thing is the transfer it’s self, it should not take close to 15 minutes to walk from GC to GCM.

Theres also no cell service in the tunnels which sucks.

MTA is still treating the LIRR as a service from Nassau/Suffolk into Manhattan. Forget about intermediate riders, how else could you explain the asinine service patterns where one train would stop at Kew Gardens and one would stop at Forest Hills, and the alternative they are mentioning is to take the subway which runs like crap

[IAlam]

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Well that’s the thing, why are there so many “Surprised” commuters?

Aside from the PW express trains I don't think any other changes were really made. There were complaints across the board. There was also an expectation that the MTA would make more changes from the draft but it never did. 

Now after this, I don't even trust them with the Queen's redesign and I will be ready to raise hell once their final draft is released. 

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

At the end of the day as nice as GCT is, there is not much near GCT compared to Penn especially on weekends and off peak hours. I would think that off peak riders would much prefer Penn than GCT

As for work commuters, this is a casualty of the pandemic, many offices near Park Ave/Lexington Ave are actually either downsizing and moving to Hudson Yards out of all the places

I'm still of the opinion that if it wasn't that the MTA already sunk billions of dollar into this project, I would argue it should've been cancelled around 2010 with the funding used to improve Hunterspoint Avenue and/or Atlantic Terminal

The problem isn't really GCT having the station and the connection there is good we've needed this for a long time, the issue is the service levels and patterns. Many riders had one-seat rides and 30-minute service, and when they did have to change they could guarantee a cross-platform connection. Now it's an hourly service for most people and without guaranteed connections meaning you have to come earlier to ensure you make your connection now because if your train is late the connecting train will not wait for you. On top of that with service spread between 3 platforms and not waiting for each other, it puts a lot of strain on the 2 overpasses that exist as they don't offer much throughput. Jamaica needs to be upgraded as a part of this expansion. Ie a 3rd overpass and more sheltered waiting areas. I've seen less busy stations on the Metro North with better waiting areas. Also, that western overpass needs to be connected to the Airtrain somehow it manages to feel so useless somehow even though people are finally starting to use it. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

At the end of the day as nice as GCT is, there is not much near GCT compared to Penn especially on weekends and off peak hours. I would think that off peak riders would much prefer Penn than GCT

As for work commuters, this is a casualty of the pandemic, many offices near Park Ave/Lexington Ave are actually either downsizing and moving to Hudson Yards out of all the places

I'm still of the opinion that if it wasn't that the MTA already sunk billions of dollar into this project, I would argue it should've been cancelled around 2010 with the funding used to improve Hunterspoint Avenue and/or Atlantic Terminal

I'm not sure what in the world you are talking about.  As someone who has worked near GCT for many years, there is plenty on the East Side, both off-peak and weekends, but that's neither here nor there.  This is about commuters and where they work, not where they hang out at.  Most clearly work on the West Side or near it and service should be adjusted to accommodate those riders, as they have become accustomed to getting trains from Penn Station.

[Mtatransit]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not sure what in the world you are talking about.  As someone who has worked near GCT for many years, there is plenty on the East Side, both off-peak and weekends, but that's neither here nor there.  This is about commuters and where they work, not where they hang out at.  Most clearly work on the West Side or near it and service should be adjusted to accommodate those riders, as they have become accustomed to getting trains from Penn Station.

They are building a couple of new towers near Hudson Yards and on the West side. Many firms are either opening satellite offices or relocating from their offices to be in Hudson Yards 
 

I was mostly thinking about discretionary riders. These I feel will much prefer the location of Penn Station than Grand Central yet half the service goes to Grand Central over the weekend

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Mtatransit said:

They are building a couple of new towers near Hudson Yards and on the West side. Many firms are either opening satellite offices or relocating from their offices to be in Hudson Yards 
 

I was mostly thinking about discretionary riders. These I feel will much prefer the location of Penn Station than Grand Central yet half the service goes to Grand Central over the weekend

Yeah, but the complaints are coming from weekday commuters.  Those are the primary riders. What they're building isn't relevant. What's relevant is where most LIRR riders work and what their destinations are. There is development on the East Side too. Doesn't automatically mean that service is dictated by development.

[Mtatransit]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but the complaints are coming from weekday commuters.  Those are the primary riders. What they're building isn't relevant. What's relevant is where most LIRR riders work and what their destinations are. There is development on the East Side too. Doesn't automatically mean that service is dictated by development.

Well service is dictated by ridership. You have packed Penn trains and half full GC trains
 

Either ridership haven’t caught on yet, or a lot of the East Side offices/employees are still WFH. 
 

Perhaps the MTA never did a ridership study post pandemic to see where people are returning to offices

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Mtatransit said:

Well service is dictated by ridership. You have packed Penn trains and half full GC trains
 

Either ridership haven’t caught on yet, or a lot of the East Side offices/employees are still WFH. 
 

Perhaps the MTA never did a ridership study post pandemic to see where people are returning to offices

That was precisely my point. Your argument was about development and where people hang out at. lol Both irrelevant... The majority of the ridership wants/needs Penn Station. They did a survey months ago to see which terminals riders needed but didn't adjust the schedules accordingly, so this is not about ridership not catching on or people being WFH. The riders were very clear. Most need Penn Station.

[Calvin]

https://www.facebook.com/mtalirr/photos/a.159394242314/10158593875937315/

So, on Monday, the MTA on the LIRR: there will be service changes. One of them is that there are extra Shuttle trains leaving Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal, during the morning. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Calvin

[checkmatechamp13]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:54 PM, N6 Limited said:

Well that’s the thing, why are there so many “Surprised” commuters?

Part of it is the MTA barely made any changes compared to the draft schedules, so a lot of the issues that people predicted ended up coming true. 

On 3/2/2023 at 4:15 PM, Lawrence St said:

I personally like it because it’s a quicker way to get into Queens and Long Island from MNRR, what I don’t like is the disproportionate schedules between all branches. Like there’s a train stopping at Woodside leaving in 3, 12, 21 minutes and then the next isn’t for another 36 minutes. 

Then the next thing is the transfer it’s self, it should not take close to 15 minutes to walk from GC to GCM.

Theres also no cell service in the tunnels which sucks.

I like that there's another option, but they overpaid greatly for it (think of all the improvements on the Long Island side that could've been bought for that money...electrification, double-tracking, upgraded signals, etc)

On 3/2/2023 at 8:04 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but the complaints are coming from weekday commuters.  Those are the primary riders. What they're building isn't relevant. What's relevant is where most LIRR riders work and what their destinations are. There is development on the East Side too. Doesn't automatically mean that service is dictated by development.

Of course they're coming from weekday commuters...there hasn't been any weekend service yet.

9 hours ago, Calvin said:

https://www.facebook.com/mtalirr/photos/a.159394242314/10158593875937315/

So, on Monday, the MTA on the LIRR: there will be service changes. One of them is that there are extra Shuttle trains leaving Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal, during the morning. 

They should've specified that that's three extra trips (If it was three extra trains, that could potentially mean multiple extra trips).

[xD4nn]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:21 AM, Lawrence St said:

I particularly don’t understand why they shortened the trains to begin with. I get that GCM can only hold 10 cars, but why did everything else in the system get reduced to 10 or less?

GCM can hold 12 cars...

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

GCM can hold 12 cars...

Yes…

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 3/2/2023 at 4:15 PM, Lawrence St said:

Then the next thing is the transfer it’s self, it should not take close to 15 minutes to walk from GC to GCM.

 

The transfer takes me 7 minutes from the second car on track 203 to the southbound Lexington platform, using the 45th Street escalators (walk up), the dining concourse escalators, and the Oyster Bar ramp. It's very good exercise and I might well lose a few pounds.