LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[Future ENY OP]

Crazy delays occurring right now at Jamaica. This about the 3rd incident in 2 weeks. People pay too much to have service disruptions and service won't get any better after 3/1/17 when fares are expected to increase.

[Union Tpke]

I had to take the Q36 instead of the LIRR like I usually do on Wednesday.

[bobtehpanda]

It's situations like this where the LIC terminal and Lower Montauk Branch would really come in handy; offload some pressure off of the jammed-up Main Line...

 

Even Hunterspoint Av or Atlantic would be useful, but AFAIK the LIRR has never used alternate terminals to divert trains to.

[IAlam]

So I found some Double Decker LIRR cars north on Waterbury on the for more or less abandoned train tracks. It appears on both the satellite and on street view from both sides of the tracks. Does anyone know anything about why it's there? Or if it's still there today?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7936769,-73.1225743,3a,51.2y,247.53h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_GXje821iQWCiSotbZ9CJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[beelinefan]

So I found some Double Decker LIRR cars north on Waterbury on the for more or less abandoned train tracks. It appears on both the satellite and on street view from both sides of the tracks. Does anyone know anything about why it's there? Or if it's still there today?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7936769,-73.1225743,3a,51.2y,247.53h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_GXje821iQWCiSotbZ9CJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Could be some c1s.

[IAlam]

Could be some c1s.

Oh I didn't even know of the C1's existence, but they look so similar to the C3's, definitely interesting

 

From the pictures I saw online it looks like a match.   

Edited January 24, 2017 by IAlam

[beelinefan]

Oh I didn't even know of the C1's existence, but they look so similar to the C3's, definitely interesting

 

From the pictures I saw online it looks like a match.   

the street view image is from 2012 and in that they looked like they had been there a while

Edited January 24, 2017 by beelinefan

[RR503]

I can confirm that they are C1s. The Naugatuck RR (a tourist op) purchased them for their services a while back. I guess they never got around to using them...

[Mtatransit]

Both Danbury and the Waterbury Branch have terrible Weekend Service (especially Danbury) I missed the train this weekend and the next one is in 3 HOURS! I'm pretty sure if they turned the trains around faster they could shorten headway

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Both Danbury and the Waterbury Branch have terrible Weekend Service (especially Danbury) I missed the train this weekend and the next one is in 3 HOURS! I'm pretty sure if they turned the trains around faster they could shorten headway

So did you actually wait three hours for the next one? I saw one chick hauling @ss last night at Grand Central.  Not sure what train she was going for, but several people were running for a North White Plains train.  I knew what time said train left so I just walked quickly and got on, but as usual there were no seats.  They should add more North White Plains local trains.  Service is simply lacking... Have a train every 20 minutes at a minimum, and if they're that concerned about over serving North White Plains, they could short turn some of them at Mount Vernon West.

[RR503]

The last MNR president wanted that, but then the safety crisis happened. 

 

Have they tried longer trains? Or are all already maxed out?

 

Also remember that service isn't free. Weekends = overtime, and with generally fewer people traveling, less farebox recovery. Maybe not every 20 minutes, but bi-hourly service would be great. 

 

Anyway, y'all should be appreciative that you aren't dealing with LIRR's weekend 'service.'   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The last MNR president wanted that, but then the safety crisis happened. 

 

Have they tried longer trains? Or are all already maxed out?

 

Also remember that service isn't free. Weekends = overtime, and with generally fewer people traveling, less farebox recovery. Maybe not every 20 minutes, but bi-hourly service would be great. 

 

Anyway, y'all should be appreciative that you aren't dealing with LIRR's weekend 'service.'   

The keeps talking about record ridership on MNRR, and they keep jacking up the fares, so how about we actually get a seat? The Harlem Line rarely has seats, and I've been on my fair share of trains where I have had to stand.  There is one train on the Hudson line where I have to stand almost every day, and that's with six cars.  Some folks are getting sick of it and are taking another train which is what I've resorted to doing, but the Harlem line doesn't have such luxuries.  The Harlem and New Haven line can actually use more service or longer cars.  Doesn't make me a difference.  New month started, so of course I purchased my monthly pass.  Got a seat this morning on an express train...

[trainfan22]

Both Danbury and the Waterbury Branch have terrible Weekend Service (especially Danbury) I missed the train this weekend and the next one is in 3 HOURS! I'm pretty sure if they turned the trains around faster they could shorten headway

Their probably isn't any demand for more frequent weekend service on the Danbury & Waterbury line, the Danbury line neighborhoods aren't densely populated and they feel more like an rural area than densely populated suburbs like lower Westchester & Nassau County. 

 

 

 

 

Have they tried longer trains? Or are all already maxed out?

 

 

For the MU's they don't have enough cars, for the Dual Modes they can't add more cars cause the locomotive wouldn't able to handle it with the HEP on. IIRC the limit is 7 cars in a dual mode train.

[RR503]

 

For the MU's they don't have enough cars, for the Dual Modes they can't add more cars cause the locomotive wouldn't able to handle it with the HEP on. IIRC the limit is 7 cars in a dual mode train.

 They definitely have spare rolling stock on weekends (which is what VG8 originally was talking about).

 

And yes, 7 is tops. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by RR503

[bobtehpanda]

Can MNR's tunnels and bridges accommodate double deck cars? They should consider double-deck EMUs.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 They definitely have spare rolling stock on weekends (which is what VG8 originally was talking about).

 

And yes, 7 is tops. 

On the same token they should overhaul the "newest" cars on the Hudson and Harlem lines if they have free ones available on weekends.  I've noticed that they've re-done the seating on a few cars here and there and the new leather looks real and is more comfortable than that cheap crap they started out with. Some of those seats are just disgusting, which is one reason I almost always go for the fold up seats.  When the new trains come in on the Hudson line they'll definitely be appreciated.  The older cars... I've been on a few of them this week and they are something else.  They have this weird jerking sensation that comes out of nowhere and it's rather scary especially when the train is switching tracks.  The jolting sensation makes you think the train could derail at any moment or someone could hurt themselves. I also wonder if it limits the speed at which the trains go.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Mtatransit]

So did you actually wait three hours for the next one? I saw one chick hauling @ss last night at Grand Central.  Not sure what train she was going for, but several people were running for a North White Plains train.  I knew what time said train left so I just walked quickly and got on, but as usual there were no seats.  They should add more North White Plains local trains.  Service is simply lacking... Have a train every 20 minutes at a minimum, and if they're that concerned about over serving North White Plains, they could short turn some of them at Mount Vernon West.

 No I gave up and cancelled everything.

Their probably isn't any demand for more frequent weekend service on the Danbury & Waterbury line, the Danbury line neighborhoods aren't densely populated and they feel more like an rural area than densely populated suburbs like lower Westchester & Nassau County. 

 

 

 

For the MU's they don't have enough cars, for the Dual Modes they can't add more cars cause the locomotive wouldn't able to handle it with the HEP on. IIRC the limit is 7 cars in a dual mode train.

The Problem is that the demand is there, people from Danbury used the Harlem Line because the headway is terrible.

[paulrivera]

 No I gave up and cancelled everything. The Problem is that the demand is there, people from Danbury used the Harlem Line because the headway is terrible.

Yep, most people drive over to the main Harlem Line or New Haven line and catch a train from a mainline station.

 

I can't tell you how many people drive from all over CT to New Haven. That parking lot fills up every single day, and then after the lot is full, you have to pay extra for valet parking.

Edited February 2, 2017 by paulrivera

[checkmatechamp13]

Their probably isn't any demand for more frequent weekend service on the Danbury & Waterbury line, the Danbury line neighborhoods aren't densely populated and they feel more like an rural area than densely populated suburbs like lower Westchester & Nassau County. 

 

Danbury & Waterbury themselves are definitely densely populated suburbs. And then you also have office parks around some of the stations as well. Or heck, even some shuttle bus service up Route 7 & Route 8 to fill the gaps would be better than a 3 hour wait for a train. 

[trainfan22]

Danbury & Waterbury themselves are definitely densely populated suburbs. And then you also have office parks around some of the stations as well. Or heck, even some shuttle bus service up Route 7 & Route 8 to fill the gaps would be better than a 3 hour wait for a train. 

I been to Danbury before so I already know that, I was talking about the towns between Danbury and South Norfolk. When I went to Danbury I rode up there in a car on that road that runs along side the Danbury branch. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by trainfan22

[agar io]

Random thought: The LIRR could be made higher-capacity by outfitting multiple lines with 2 tracks and grade separation, similar to the Babylon Branch. I know the Ronkonkoma Branch project is adding a second track, but I'm not sure why they stopped short of grade separation, since the grade crossings would still cause delays after ESA opens

[Trainmaster5]

Random thought: The LIRR could be made higher-capacity by outfitting multiple lines with 2 tracks and grade separation, similar to the Babylon Branch. I know the Ronkonkoma Branch project is adding a second track, but I'm not sure why they stopped short of grade separation, since the grade crossings would still cause delays after ESA opens

I asked my relatives that very same question over three decades ago. Back then I was told that Suffolk County and the wouldn't commit to spending the amount of money needed for that to happen. I also asked about the lack of sewers in Brentwood back then and the answer was similar. The taxpayers and the county didn't want to spend that kind of money. Coming from Brooklyn it always amazed me that the LIRR Main Line had grade crossings but the Babylon Branch was elevated. Thirty five years later, and three decades after electrification they're finally double tracking the line from Ronkonkoma westward so they can run more that one train an hour in each direction during the off-peak part of the day. This would also eliminate the 3 hour gap from 4 to 7pm where there is no westbound service between Ronkonkoma and ( I think) Farmingdale. Yet they call this the Main Line ? Meanwhile the Babylon Branch runs service westbound more like the NYCT. I've been using the "so-called" Main Line since they ran diesels out there and trains stopped at Republic Station, Pineaire,  and branched off at the Pilgrim State Spur. While it's somewhat gratifying to see the service being improved somewhat I always wonder how much cheaper and easier this work would have been if the available money had been designated and used 30 years ago.Just my musings though.Carry on.

[bobtehpanda]

Not to mention the fact that the electrification out to Patchogue and Port Jefferson is basically dead in the water. We need more electrification yesterday, so you don't have people from the North Shore and South Shore driving to Ronkonkoma to avoid all the damn transfers from diesels.

[B35 via Church]

I asked my relatives that very same question over three decades ago. Back then I was told that Suffolk County and the wouldn't commit to spending the amount of money needed for that to happen. I also asked about the lack of sewers in Brentwood back then and the answer was similar. The taxpayers and the county didn't want to spend that kind of money. Coming from Brooklyn it always amazed me that the LIRR Main Line had grade crossings but the Babylon Branch was elevated. Thirty five years later, and three decades after electrification they're finally double tracking the line from Ronkonkoma westward so they can run more that one train an hour in each direction during the off-peak part of the day. This would also eliminate the 3 hour gap from 4 to 7pm where there is no westbound service between Ronkonkoma and ( I think) Farmingdale. Yet they call this the Main Line ? Meanwhile the Babylon Branch runs service westbound more like the NYCT. I've been using the "so-called" Main Line since they ran diesels out there and trains stopped at Republic Station, Pineaire,  and branched off at the Pilgrim State Spur. While it's somewhat gratifying to see the service being improved somewhat I always wonder how much cheaper and easier this work would have been if the available money had been designated and used 30 years ago.Just my musings though.Carry on.

The Babylon line being gifted the amount of service that it gets, isn't much more than a class issue....One of many reasons the LIRR is  I may not stand the guy, but I'm glad Pinepower called that shit out.... It's blatant & disgusting the amount of service the main line doesn't get, compared to the Babylon line.... Not to mention that whenever there's an emergency situation, main line service is often targeted (as far as canceling, or limiting service along the line) first.....

 

The main line having an insufficient amt. of trackage I sincerely believe the MTA uses as a convenient excuse... In other words, if it was 3-4 tracked on over to Ronkonkoma & what not, the Babylon branch would still have a stoopid amount of service, in comparison....

[Trainmaster5]

B35 I've gotta agree with your assessment of the Babylon Branch. I went to school in Brownsville in the late '50s and my school was 75% Jewish until the fourth grade. I remember when a classmate stood up and told us that he was moving to Long Island and he wouldn't have to ride the subway anymore because he was going to ride the LIRR instead . It spawned an argument and my teacher let me make the rebuttal. I pointed out that the LIRR was only one stop away on the Canarsie line and that we could see LIRR freight trains on the Bay Ridge line daily from our classroom windows .I also pointed out that he was moving to another part of Long Island, not to the Island, because our whole class was born on Long Island IN BROOKLYN. I ran into him and his grandkids at a Wendy's on Sunrise Highway a few years ago and he said that the first few years were okay but when he hit his teens and then his twenties he realized the " City " was the place to be. Said he spent more time in NYC than he did in the sticks ( his word ). He told his grandkids about our debate and he remembered when I told our class that Lynbrook was named by people who couldn't get over leaving Brooklyn so they just rearranged the letters . Funny part is that his kids want to move to the city to save on their commutation costs. What goes around...... . Carry on.