Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Statty]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:48 PM, Fredrick Wells 2 said:

It was a dumb idea. I say restore the M10 to where the South Terminal is Abingdon Square, and extend the M20 North to West 96th Street - Central Park West. Then put Artics on the M10 at 5 minute headways at Peak Hours, 6 minute headways at Middays and Weekends, and 8 minute headways during Evenings, while Standard Sized buses run on the M20 every 6 minutes at Peak Hours and every 10 minutes during Middays, Evenings and Weekends.

Times Square is an inappropriate terminal for the M104. Send it back to the UN, and restore the 3 to 4 minute headways throughout the day.

Not sure if artics can be put on the current M10 route, due to the terminal at 159. The buses make a U-turn for their southbound trip coming from north. Itll be pretty tight turn.

I agree with you on the M104 terminal. At times, that 41st block is jammed up with cars because they couldn't turn right on 42nd or for whatever other reason.

[bobtehpanda]

6 hours ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

These are crazy.

The 5th Avenue/Madison Avenue routes definitely need improvement. I'll say this:

1. M1 to operate 24 Hour service between Harlem and Lower Manhattan (Worth Street). Rush Hour LIMITED-STOP SERVICE discontinued (see M2 and M4) and slight service decrease to every 7 minutes (from every 5 to 6 minutes). Middays, buses to arrive every 10 minutes.

2. M2 to operate more frequent service throughout the day (every 5 to 6 minutes), 7 days a Week. Consider this route for SELECT BUS SERVICE as a new M97 would travel Adam Clayton Powel Jr. Blvd as the LOCAL variant, and turn West to Broadway (running at 8 to 10 minute headways).

3. M3 - Overnight service added. More frequent service (every 5 to 6 minutes) between Fort George and Harlem - West 125th Street throughout the day.

4. M4 - route shortened to Grand Central Terminal. Consider this route for SELECT BUS SERVICE as the M5 and M104 would increase service as the Local variants along Broadway (M5 would alternate as a LOCAL/LIMITED with 5 to 6 minute headways). M4 SBS would skip stops along the West 110th Street corridor as the M3 and M97 would provide the LOCAL service variants.

Then:

1. Leave the M11 alone, however the M7 could use an increase in service (every 5 to 6 minutes throughout the day). The old M7 LIMITED proved that SELECT BUS SERVICE should be placed on that route as the West Side corridor (considering that the  and  trains have a "non-stop" segment between 96th Street and 110th Street). Add Overnight service to the M11 and call it a day.

2. M12 should extend to Battery Park City via West Street and operate 24 Hour service.

3. M14D and M22 leave alone.

4. M20 needs a portion of its route duplicated with an extended M10 to be of any relevance.

5. I did mention that the M101 needs to be split but not that way. Just shorten the route to Grand Central Terminal and increase service to the M102 and M103. The M102 and M103 would increase service (to every 7 minutes throughout the day, 7 Days a Week) with the M102 becoming a TRUE LIMITED (the M7 would continue to provide LOCAL service along with SELECT BUS SERVICE). The M98 is just a RUSH HOUR LIMITED.

Didn't you just make the second account last week? We gettin Fast and Furious in here?

[B35 via Church]

Somebody sell me on running the M14 to Chelsea Piers, because I don't see the point....

As far as this current discussion on here goes, running the M12 southward won't help that route & I'm not getting why there are as many people that suggest this.... BPC by itself isn't a ridership gen' & those patrons I don't see patronizing (extended) M12's any more, or near as much as they do the M20 (which isn't exactly saying much... lol)..... At minimum, the thing (M12) needs to be taken off 12th & put on 10th instead....

 

20 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Didn't you just make the second account last week? We gettin Fast and Furious in here?

There shouldn't have been a first one.

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 10:17 AM, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

These are crazy......

[JeremiahC99]

Just now, Lex said:

That will only lead to another QBx1 situation.

 

11 minutes ago, Just New York said:

Not every M100 maybe every other could work.

I moved these two posts here since this is evolving into a proposal.

Anyways, the M100 extension would operate in a similar fashion to the M1 extension to Grand Street (eventually to Worth Street), in which during weekdays, every other bus goes to Grand Street and the others terminate at Astor Place. On weekends, all buses go to Grand St.

Here, for this M100 extension, the entire line would operate every 4 minutes. To accompany this, in an M1 fashion, every other bus would continue to Randall’s Island. As a result, Island service would run every 4 minutes. All other buses would terminate in Manhattan. On weekends, when service would operate every 8 minutes on the entire route all buses would go to the Island.

To accommodate current crowds, during the AM and PM Rush hours, half of the trips (those going to the Island) would use NovaBus LFSA articulated buses (the current fleet at Kingsbridge Depot). Other times, service would use standard buses.

This proposal would bring more frequent service to the Island and better crowding conditions at 125 and Lex. This would also provide direct access between Randalls Island and the other subway lines besides the  and  , providing additional subway options people going to/from the Island can connect to in case the Lexington Avenue services are disrupted

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Not again with the M100 to Randalls Island...

[JeremiahC99]

22 minutes ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

I'd rather consolidate the M35 with the M116 than send the M100 to Randalls Island. But then, the Bx21 or Bx17 would have to extend to Randalls Island from The Bronx as a connection to the  lines - which would include the .

That would be a great idea too, but I still feel that the M100 extension to Randall’s Island, bought to you by the wise people who live in Harlem, would provide more benefits:

• Provide more frequent service to Randall’s Island.
• Allow direct service between Randall’s Island to multiple other subway lines aside from the  and , such as the  at Lenox Avenue, and the  and  at St. Nicholas Avenue, increasing connectivity.
• Gives people in Central Harlem and Washington Heights a direct ride to the Island, reducing or eliminating transfers.
• Improves crowding conditions at Lex-125.

Ideally, every other M100 bus would serve the Island, while the others would terminate in Manhattan. This would be during the weekday, when service would operate every 4 minutes. On weekends, all trips would serve the Island. This is similar to the M1 service pattern after the route was extended to Grand Street (service will eventually go back down to Worth Street), in which every other bus goes to Grand Street and all others go to Astor Place during weekdays, while during weekends, all buses go to Grand St.

 

A Bronx route would be ideal, but I would only run it from the Bronx to Randall’s Island, then stop. The Bx21 would be a great candidate since the terminal is by the bridge. Buses would take 134th/135th Streets and take the bridge to the Island. This would provide even more service on the island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:44 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Not again with the M100 to Randalls Island...

I seriously wonder if the people that come up with these ideas actually EVER use these buses outside of for fanning or joy rides.  The M100 already has enough reliability problems as it is. To extend it would make that even worse.  Seems like what I don't ever see is any thought given to the operational costs to run the service, the reliability of the service, or who would benefit or be negatively impacted by these changes.  They're basically fantasy routes.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/26/2019 at 2:02 PM, B35 via Church said:

Somebody sell me on running the M14 to Chelsea Piers, because I don't see the point....

As far as this current discussion on here goes, running the M12 southward won't help that route & I'm not getting why there are as many people that suggest this.... BPC by itself isn't a ridership gen' & those patrons I don't see patronizing (extended) M12's any more, or near as much as they do the M20 (which isn't exactly saying much... lol)..... At minimum, the thing (M12) needs to be taken off 12th & put on 10th instead....

 

There shouldn't have been a first one.

All I know is I saw this guy years ago at a Town Hall Meeting that @BrooklynBus and I spoke at... I'm not going to say what I thought.... 

[Orion6025]

What is the obsession with combining the M35 with all these routes? The route does alright on its own, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

What's next, extend the Bx2 into Harlem and combining it with the M35?

[JeremiahC99]

34 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

What is the obsession with combining the M35 with all these routes? The route does alright on its own, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

What's next, extend the Bx2 into Harlem and combining it with the M35?

The route is alright, but it can be improved. There is potential for the route to do better.

 

The people of Harlem recognized this need, and they were the creators of the M100 extension. They know how the routes work, and they know what is right. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

36 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The route is alright, but it can be improved. There is potential for the route to do better.

 

The people of Harlem recognized this need, and they were the creators of the M100 extension. They know how the routes work, and they know what is right. 

How the hell would extending a route along a already congested street make the route "do better?" 

There's a difference between extending a route to improve service and extending a route for "coverage reasons". That's where you and these "creators" keep on messing up.

[Lex]

37 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The route is alright, but it can be improved. There is potential for the route to do better.

Yes, by better adhering to the schedule than it currently does (traffic).

 

38 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The people of Harlem recognized this need, and they were the creators of the M100 extension. They know how the routes work, and they know what is right. 

The people of Co-Op City proposed having some routes run to rather asinine areas because of "need", regardless of reality. This is no different. If anything, the proposal comes with the implication that they don't know how these routes work, thereby being unable to know what is right.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The route is alright, but it can be improved. There is potential for the route to do better.

 

The people of Harlem recognized this need, and they were the creators of the M100 extension. They know how the routes work, and they know what is right. 

,,,,and you don't, so perhaps you should shut ALL the way the f*** up already with this crap.

Harlem residents are not clamoring for, or otherwise conveying any need for the M35 to get extended over the whole M100 route.... That is a blatant fabrication meant to accomplish nothing more than some iota of a justification of your foolish idea, off the sole fact that the M35 & the M100 in fact, operates in Harlem..... People tend to pull shenanigans of the sort, when they don't know what the f*** they're talking about.....

You are as transparent as there are 24 hours in a goddamn day.

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

How the hell would extending a route along a already congested street make the route "do better?" 

There's a difference between extending a route to improve service and extending a route for "coverage reasons". That's where you and these "creators" keep on messing up.

Complete & utter ignorance from this character.... Highly annoying.... Never understood what people get from even wanting to pretend like they know what's best for others - without having a full, or vast scope of these operations.....

Outside of what's already been said by a couple people about this crap so far, what's lost in this bullshit, is this notion that Harlem has this final say on a route combination/extension that would go on to affect Washington Heights & Inwood on top of it.....

2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

What is the obsession with combining the M35 with all these routes? The route does alright on its own, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

What's next, extend the Bx2 into Harlem and combining it with the M35?

Nah...

Dumping everybody taking buses into & out of the heart of Downtown Brooklyn off at Flatbush av. extension, for some shuttle bus that would shuttle people in & out of there, under the guise of relieving traffic.... Because the DOT says so... Because the DOT has a vested interest in the individual commutes of those that rely on surface transportation....

smfh....

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by B35 via Church

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

The best way to draw customers to the M100 is to have the M101 operate LIMITED-STOP SERVICE via Amsterdam Avenue.

Funny, but still fallacious....

Running M101's LTD along Amsterdam can (and IMO, likely will) also have the opposite effect of taking people off M100's also....
Matter of fact, that's simply more realistic to believe, than this idea of running LTD service along some corridor to spawn local bus usage....

1 hour ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

The Bx21 would be a great candidate since the terminal is by the bridge. Buses would take 134th/135th Streets and take the bridge to the Island. This would provide even more service on the island.

By this vapid logic, so would the Concourse buses.

Edited April 12, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:37 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Anyways, the M100 extension would operate in a similar fashion to the M1 extension to Grand Street (eventually to Worth Street), in which during weekdays, every other bus goes to Grand Street and the others terminate at Astor Place. On weekends, all buses go to Grand St.

Here, for this M100 extension, the entire line would operate every 4 minutes. To accompany this, in an M1 fashion, every other bus would continue to Randall’s Island. As a result, Island service would run every 4 minutes. All other buses would terminate in Manhattan. On weekends, when service would operate every 8 minutes on the entire route all buses would go to the Island.

If the M35 is extended anywhere west of Lexington, then it should be only a 125th Street Crosstown (M125) to take over or supplement the east-west sections of the M100/M101/Bx15.

[Lex]

33 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If the M35 is extended anywhere west of Lexington, then it should be only a 125th Street Crosstown (M125) to take over or supplement the east-west sections of the M100/M101/Bx15.

Thank you.

[JeremiahC99]

59 minutes ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

Problem, that is the M60 SBS.

The M60 turns south at Amsterdam Avenue. A 125th Street crosstown would serve there entire length of 125th Street.

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If the M35 is extended anywhere west of Lexington, then it should be only a 125th Street Crosstown (M125) to take over or supplement the east-west sections of the M100/M101/Bx15.

That would be a great compromise, as it does keep the current routes intact, while eliminating the bus stop placement at Lex-125 that causes complaints.

Another benefit is that it would connect to the  as well, providing even more subway transfers aside from the . Right now, if the  and  lines have delays, then riders coming from Randall’s Island are screwed. By having this extension, then those passengers can stay on the bus and ride to another subway station.

[Just New York]

The M35 is not struggling, It can be streamlined as well. It does it need to go across 125 you already have 4 lines. Harlem is not in a uproar about anything with the M35 but its not maximize to its potential.

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If the M35 is extended anywhere west of Lexington, then it should be only a 125th Street Crosstown (M125) to take over or supplement the east-west sections of the M100/M101/Bx15.

 

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Thank you.

I would also like to point out we already have enough buses on 125th. And tampering with anything on 125th is not wise.

 

Leave 125th St and the m35 alone. The only route on 125th St and in Harlem that needs something done is the M101 because it's too long for its own good.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

10 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

 

I would also like to point out we already have enough buses on 125th. And tampering with anything on 125th is not wise.

 

Leave 125th St and the m35 alone. The only route on 125th St and in Harlem that needs something done is the M101 because it's too long for its own good.

 

Actually, I would convert all M101 trips into M103 (on 3rd/Lex south of 125th with more City Hall service) and a separate route serving Amsterdam north of 125th.

 

Overall, there are too many ultra-long routes with one-way running times over 2 hours. I would scrap that system in favor of much shorter routes that can run much more reliably. Then, to ensure continued connectivity without fare penalty, I would replace all transfer privileges with a time-based pass (swipe/dip/tap your card once and get your run of the whole "base" system for 2.5 hours, or 3 hours, or maybe 4 hours overnight). Before anyone asks... Yes, there would be some amount of "round-tripping," and that would be a small price to pay for a more user-friendly network.

[B35 via Church]

- The bulk of rider activity along 125th runs between Amsterdam & 2nd & you've got the M60, M100, M101, and the Bx15 all doing that !
- West of Amsterdam, you don't need much more service than what the Bx15 provides.....

In acknowledging those 2 pointers, I'm really failing to see this need for a] another & b] "true" crosstown, route along 125th.... Way I see it, 125th has 4 damn crosstown routes

[Gotham Bus Co.]

7 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

- The bulk of rider activity along 125th runs between Amsterdam & 2nd & you've got the M60, M100, M101, and the Bx15 all doing that !
- West of Amsterdam, you don't need much more service than what the Bx15 provides.....

In acknowledging those 2 pointers, I'm really failing to see this need for a] another & b] "true" crosstown, route along 125th.... Way I see it, 125th has 4 damn crosstown routes

My (rather obvious) point was there is no need for so many "crosstown" routes on one corridor. All that's needed are a true river-to-river crosstown and the M60. The others can be restructured.

[B35 via Church]

37 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

My (rather obvious) point was there is no need for so many "crosstown" routes on one corridor......

........................

 

15 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If the M35 is extended anywhere west of Lexington, then it should be only a 125th Street Crosstown (M125) to take over or supplement the east-west sections of the M100/M101/Bx15.

um, you were saying?

Spare me with the "rather obvious point" bit, when you also suggest supplementation of this supposed 125th st. crosstown.

[B35 via Church]

On the drive in last night, I was thinking a little more about this particular convo.... This isn't the first time a 125th st. crosstown has been suggested (not by a longshot), but what I really think some people want to say when it comes to 125th st. is that there is simply too much service along it; Saying it without saying it, so to speak....

Me? I don't have an issue with the amt. of BPH along 125th at all; matter of fact, I'd say its warranted..... In wanting to sever the M101 route & amalgamate the remnants into current services, it has just about everything to do with how current service is allocated.... As far as the other 125th routes go (routing-wise) in Harlem, I take no issue with the M60, the M100, or the Bx15.... At all.

* The M60 is "obvious"; the main deal is for it to take 125th to the Triboro (I refuse to call it RFK), en route to LGA....
* The Bx15 should also be "obvious" - it connects a whole damn borough with the major commercial strip that is 125th.....
* M100 may not be as "obvious", but it does have an importance in the network to more riders than some may think ..... The thing is used, similar to the Bx19 (a quote-unquote 'L' shaped route, if you will).... Amsterdam riders getting off directly, at various points along 125th - so much so that it needs the M101 to supplement it....

- While each, by themselves, of what I'm about the mention are important, problem with the M101 (as I see it) is that you don't need a solitary route that primarily does BOTH of [supplementing the north-of-125th riders w/ direct service along 125th] & [providing (LTD) service along the 3rd/Lex corridor]....

The riderbase consisting of the latter, large in part, are not riding that deep into/along 125th (matter fact, they don't go near 125th!).... Whereas with the former, you have plennnttty people taking M100's & M101's from areas north of 125th as far east as Lex..... I can't attempt to speak for anyone else that may concur with the sentiment, but that, fundamentally, is the issue I take w/ the M101.... Anybody can spare me the coverage argument for a route running b/w East Village & frickin Ft. George - esp. the way the M101 does it.... Whether it be for reasons of frugality or whatever, these routes with (or approaching near) these 2 damn hour long runtimes need to go, like yesterday.....

Like I expressed... "yesterday" , I'd want no part in implementing a solitary, quote-unquote, true 125th st. crosstown into the network.... In saying this, I'm not quoting anyone or implicating that this would be supported, but I want to drive home a point..... To either [dead-end the M100 and/or the M101 at 125th from the north] or [run the M11 allllllllllll the way up to Ft. George in conjunction with dead-ending the M100 at 125th to maintain Amsterdam service north of 163rd] to support a 125th st crosstown, man, I don't see that shit flying for those north-of-125th riders on the M100 & M101 AT ALL.... I just, don't.

The M35 part in all of this, again, where is this vast support of running this route deeper along 125th? It's fallacious & rooted straight up in a crock of damn bullshit, flat out.... Short feeder routes have their place in a network just as much as the other fixed-route services do & that mindset has long been annoying around these parts....

[Future ENY OP]

I’ve been watching this convo for the past few days and I’m going to say this only. Leave the  M35 and any surrounding routes along 125th alone. These buses serve a valuable purpose down 125th. No need to deviate any of the lines to service Randall’s Island with exception of the M35. The M35’s main purpose is to shuttle patrons from their small community to the Manhattan mainland that is IT! Any changes to that will cause major delays. I also refuse to call the Triboro bridge the RFK just like the Battery Tunnel the Hugh Carey Tunnel. 

So in turn. Leave the forementioned bus lines alone around the Harlem area. #fin