Planned Subway Service Changes

[Abba]

It seems like the  will run weekends.They probobaly forgot to put it in the video.the website official advisory says yes weekends,no weekdays. Why don’t they run to Essex or chambers on weekdays. To save money? I was wondering what the point was of running it on weekends but if they do weekends then do weekdays too.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Abba

[paulrivera]

They’re just doing what’s easier for them (without regard for anyone else, but it is what it is.) They’d rather cancel the  completely than make a temporary schedule between the Junction and Essex/Chambers. This reduces man hours in the crew office trying to draw up a schedule, and it reduces the amount of crews needed for the week. With less trains running, there will be less trains prone to breaking down as well. Less jobs to do=less money for the MTA to spend.

If you think they’re going to do common sense things like cross honor with the LIRR, run more  trains and Q60 buses or extend the  down Queens Blvd you are sorely mistaken.

[Lance]

It may be fewer trips overall, but those crews get paid regardless. They just won't be on the during those days.

[Around the Horn]

I heard that the  "would" operate as  short turns between Chambers and Broadway Junction.

[Lawrence St]

But why not extend the during this time, you have the free cars from the (M), so make the 8 cars and run it to Forest Hills.

[Lawrence St]

And plus that gives riders who are at Court Sq a chance to transfer at Jackson Heights for the and the and Metro for a connection to the (M).

[itmaybeokay]

26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But why not extend the during this time, you have the free cars from the (M), so make the 8 cars and run it to Forest Hills.

I don't think it would help much, since the only other thing stopping queens plaza is the R. 

Some local riders between 71 and Roosy will take it to transfer to the E or F at Roosy - but remember those are both going via 63rd and not stopping at Queens Plaza. Yes - people at the intermediate local tracks could backtrack to transfer but would they? 

I like the idea because hey what a novelty to get to brooklyn some night on a one seat ride. But i'm not worried about evenings - i'm worried about the rush, getting to manhattan. 

[N6 Limited]

27 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But why not extend the during this time, you have the free cars from the (M), so make the 8 cars and run it to Forest Hills.

 

23 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

And plus that gives riders who are at Court Sq a chance to transfer at Jackson Heights for the and the and Metro for a connection to the (M).

How dare you cite rider convenience as a basis for service changes. 

[Abba]

11 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I heard that the  "would" operate as  short turns between Chambers and Broadway Junction.

Last week when there were switch problems at Broadway Lafayette that seperated the M in 2 sections , on SubwayTime  the ones from

Chambers to Broadway Junction were labeled  on SubwayTime. Not from the junction though .

 

EDIT: Guess what? Around the horn is apparently right .

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=J&date=12/27/17&time=&method=getstatus4

 

I wonder why they choose this.Maybe to not get people confused.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Abba

[Lance]

10 hours ago, Abba said:

I wonder why they choose this.Maybe to not get people confused.

Probably. The is already posing as a train between Myrtle Av and Broadway Junction, more so on weekends when it only runs to Essex St. Sending it down to Chambers St as an when it was stated that the service would be completely suspended would only confuse riders further. On a related note, it looks like we're halfway there. We have additional coverage for Jamaica. Now we just need Queens Blvd.

[N6 Limited]

16 hours ago, Abba said:

Last week when there were switch problems at Broadway Lafayette that seperated the M in 2 sections , on SubwayTime  the ones from

Chambers to Broadway Junction were labeled  on SubwayTime. Not from the junction though .

 

EDIT: Guess what? Around the horn is apparently right .

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=J&date=12/27/17&time=&method=getstatus4

 

I wonder why they choose this.Maybe to not get people confused.

 

5 hours ago, Lance said:

Probably. The is already posing as a train between Myrtle Av and Broadway Junction, more so on weekends when it only runs to Essex St. Sending it down to Chambers St as an when it was stated that the service would be completely suspended would only confuse riders further. On a related note, it looks like we're halfway there. We have additional coverage for Jamaica. Now we just need Queens Blvd.

They must have updated Subway Time then. The last time I used the Nassau line a few months ago  trains were going to/from Nassau St over the weekend. At Canal St,  Trains to Broad were on the "Uptown" list and Trains to Jamaica were on the "Downtown" list, so it was weird.

It was like:

Canal St

Uptown

 Jamaica Center    3 min

 Broad Street        10 min

Downtown

 Metropolitan Ave  4 mins

 Broad Street          12 mins

[Mysterious2train]

19 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

 

They must have updated Subway Time then. The last time I used the Nassau line a few months ago  trains were going to/from Nassau St over the weekend. At Canal St,  Trains to Broad were on the "Uptown" list and Trains to Jamaica were on the "Downtown" list, so it was weird.

It was like:

Canal St

Uptown

 Jamaica Center    3 min

 Broad Street        10 min

Downtown

 Metropolitan Ave  4 mins

 Broad Street          12 mins

Those labeling Broadway Junction-bound  trains as  trains on SubwayTime that Abba mentioned must have been a one-time thing because the  is still labeled on Nassau St/Jamaica Line just as you described.  trains in Manhattan going to Brooklyn are listed as "downtown" while  trains in Manhattan going to Brooklyn are listed as "uptown". 

Probably the best example of how stupid this is are the short-turn  trips to Broadway Junction. If you're at Marcy Av looking on the app, a short-turn  trip to Broadway Junction will be listed as "uptown" but an  trip to Broadway Junction will be listed as "downtown" even though both those trips are arriving on the same track, making the exact same stops and terminating at the exact same station. 

This layout might be technically correct because Metropolitan Av is officially the southbound terminal on the , but it's a bad decision because it's confusing to the riders and doesn't reflect the fact that these trips are running along the same route. And the physical countdown clocks in the stations do list  and  by what platform they're arriving on so this problem only exists on the app. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Mysterious2train

[Wallyhorse]

It does make sense to do this work then:

Obviously, something is bad enough on 53rd they need to do this (though you have to wonder if it were bad enough they could not have actually started this at say Noon-1:00 PM Christmas Day, after most people have returned from Christmas services?).   What I would do differently:

The Chambers Street platform would be closed during this period
would run via the Broadway Line after Queens Plaza at all times to Whitehall Street.
Late-Night trains would be extended to Times Square (since the would be running to Whitehall)
would be suspended for that week

OR

runs as planned above
 would run at all times at 71st-Continental
would also be extended at all times to 71st-Continental to replace the on Queens Boulevard

Speaking of which, I did not see anything mentioned of what they will do late nights on QB since as listed there will be no service at all late nights there (since the normally is the only line that stops there late nights).

[Lance]

You channeling your inner Scrooge there Wally? Nobody's doing construction work on Christmas Day.

Also, why do you need to rearrange the entire Queens Division? If you're going to suspend the to fit in a rerouted  line, you could simply reroute the to 71 Avenue. Your idea as always seems needlessly complex for what you intend to accomplish. To answer your question, late night Queens Blvd service is unaffected by the 53rd Street closure except for the reroute of service along 63rd Street. Shuttle buses will connect the Court Sq and 21 St-Queensbridge stations during the overnight hours.

[Daniel The Cool]

8 minutes ago, Lance said:

You channeling your inner Scrooge there Wally? Nobody's doing construction work on Christmas Day.

 

Actually they are doing G.Os on Christmas this year which is stupid.

[R68OnBroadway]

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

It does make sense to do this work then:

Obviously, something is bad enough on 53rd they need to do this (though you have to wonder if it were bad enough they could not have actually started this at say Noon-1:00 PM Christmas Day, after most people have returned from Christmas services?).   What I would do differently:

The Chambers Street platform would be closed during this period
would run via the Broadway Line after Queens Plaza at all times to Whitehall Street.
Late-Night trains would be extended to Times Square (since the would be running to Whitehall)
would be suspended for that week

OR

runs as planned above
 would run at all times at 71st-Continental
would also be extended at all times to 71st-Continental to replace the on Queens Boulevard

Speaking of which, I did not see anything mentioned of what they will do late nights on QB since as listed there will be no service at all late nights there (since the normally is the only line that stops there late nights).

To make a few things clear:

1. Nobody is going to use the  as most people go to Midtown.

2. Why the hell close Chambers-WTC? Even if you had to, just send the  to 2nd Avenue rather than Whitehall. 

3. Sending the  on Broadway will increase the chances of issues as you are now cramming 3 services down Broadway local as well as 60th, and 60th already has issues when it comes to 3 services on the line.

4. People still got places to go on the 25th. You can't revolve everything around service times as not all people go to them, and people also do other things after them, like, I don't know... see their families!

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by R68OnBroadway

[Abba]

Anyone realize that the  are using a single track to merge at DeKalb this weekend.took a  home tonight not realizing this but thank g-d no real delays.(probobaly cause the  only uses that side of the bridge on weekends).

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/15/2017 at 5:10 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

To make a few things clear:

1. Nobody is going to use the  as most people go to Midtown.

2. Why the hell close Chambers-WTC? Even if you had to, just send the  to 2nd Avenue rather than Whitehall. 

3. Sending the  on Broadway will increase the chances of issues as you are now cramming 3 services down Broadway local as well as 60th, and 60th already has issues when it comes to 3 services on the line.

4. People still got places to go on the 25th. You can't revolve everything around service times as not all people go to them, and people also do other things after them, like, I don't know... see their families!

 

In this format, to accommodate the (E), the would switch to the express track either after 57th or if possible, before entering 57th as it would make it easier to have the three lines run via 60th.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Wallyhorse

[R68OnBroadway]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

In this format, to accommodate the (E), the would switch to the express track either after 57th or if possible, before entering 57th as it would make it easier to have the three lines run via 60th.

But why run the  via 60th? Queensboro Plaza is right above Queens Plaza, so there is no need to add an extra service.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

But why run the  via 60th? Queensboro Plaza is right above Queens Plaza, so there is no need to add an extra service.

So as not to jam up 6th Avenue.  I would actually have the run to 96th Street-2nd Avenue during this time. 

[RR503]

19 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

So as not to jam up 6th Avenue.  I would actually have the run to 96th Street-2nd Avenue during this time. 

I'm so confused. 6th avenue will not be jammed by having 2 train services on its local tracks -- that's what there is normally. Sending then  down Broadway is frankly unessecary and confusing, and, speaking of congestion, would cause a ton of it with its merge with the  and , and also penalize Astoria riders. Not everything has to be novel, Wally. This isn't architecture school. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Didn't they used to send 's via Broadway on weekends before (and stopped doing it)? 

IIRC, there were weekends where the would run to Whitehall until a certain time, and then via 6 Avenue all other times.

[Lance]

Yep. They also used to run expanded service to Jamaica Center (including overnights), though I don't think they've done this one in quite some time. The problem with this approach, besides the usual passenger confusion issue, is that, in addition to removing service between 50 Street and W 4 Street, it also removes service at Spring St, Canal St and the World Trade Center. While next week won't be a heavy travel week with most workers on vacation for the holidays, it will continue to be a tourist-heavy week. There is really no need to unnecessarily remove service where it's not required.

As it concerns the , running a full-length line when there is no way for it to run normally due to the track closure makes absolutely no sense. The is a secondary service to the and lines, even more so since the has been rerouted to Broadway Junction. The is a primary route for it's entire line, so it should receive preference when it comes to reroutes.

Shifting gears, does anyone over at Transit communicate with each other on conflicting service changes? Don't respond to that; I already know the answer. Take a look at this week's late night service changes:

ELECTRICAL IMPROVEMENTS
No trains between Brooklyn Bridge and New Lots Av
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

service operates local between Woodlawn and Brooklyn Bridge.

SIGNAL MAINTENANCE
Trains run via the in both directions between W 4 St and Jay St-MetroTech
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

No service at Spring, Canal, Chambers, Fulton and High Sts.

SIGNAL MAINTENANCE
No trains between Essex St and Broad St
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

Service operates between Jamaica Center and Essex St.

Nice to provide that bridge between Fulton St and Delancey St for riders. NOT.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Lance

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Lance said:

does anyone over at Transit communicate with each other on conflicting service changes? Don't respond to that; I already know the answer. Take a look at this week's late night service changes:

ELECTRICAL IMPROVEMENTS
No trains between Brooklyn Bridge and New Lots Av
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

service operates local between Woodlawn and Brooklyn Bridge.

SIGNAL MAINTENANCE
Trains run via the in both directions between W 4 St and Jay St-MetroTech
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

No service at Spring, Canal, Chambers, Fulton and High Sts.

SIGNAL MAINTENANCE
No trains between Essex St and Broad St
and trains provide alternate service

Late Nights, 9:45 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Dec 18 - 22

Service operates between Jamaica Center and Essex St.

Nice to provide that bridge between Fulton St and Delancey St for riders. NOT.

Lots of interesting things happening at night this week. One of my favorites is the sharing the uptown track after after 59 St after 9:45PM. I get our system is in bad shape, but for those trying to travel overnight are going to have a great night.

[Lawrence St]

During this time in all honesty the should run to Jamaica Center and the should operate via Broadway during this time. It at least gives riders another way to transfer or if that's to much, just extend the dam to 179th during this time.