Far Rock Depot Posted March 30, 2017 Share #451 Posted March 30, 2017 BART, and no other system, has the passenger numbers that we do. It becomes a safety issue. And look at BART and WAMTA's track record in operational safety recently. Those two are the worst examples right now. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted March 30, 2017 Share #452 Posted March 30, 2017 What about BART, they have their own CBTC, with only a driver, and their longest trains are 700ft long. Even WMATA has just a driver with no conductor, their trains are just as long as MTAs. Only thing about NYC is the curved platforms, all of BARTs platforms are straight. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Those are designed as automated systems where essentially the crew member onboard is the conductor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted March 31, 2017 Share #453 Posted March 31, 2017 Sure other systems use cameras but there is no system on the planet that runs 600 foot trains and uses OPTO. You kidding? Could you go wiki/google some of the systems in the world before making this calm?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted March 31, 2017 Share #454 Posted March 31, 2017 You kidding? Could you go wiki/google some of the systems in the world before making this calm?? I see you didn't read my second post after that where I further explain that I am not considering automated systems 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted March 31, 2017 Share #455 Posted March 31, 2017 Sources: RTO, ENY, DCE None of those departments are actually responsible for car assignments though... That's the domain of OP (Operations Planning) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 1, 2017 Share #456 Posted April 1, 2017 The 211s will likely go to the current mainstays of the 46s, which are the and lines, and there is a reason for this. CBTC signal installation is either in the construction, planning or design stage for Queens Blvd between Union Turnpike and 50 Street, 8th Avenue between 59 St-Columbus Circle and High St, and the Culver line from Church Av to West 8 Street. Sense a pattern here? As we all know, once CBTC is installed and operational, provisional start date set sometime in the early 2020s, the older trains will not be able to run on these lines. I feel that if the MTA were smart (I know, shut up), they'd put these new cars on these lines in preparation for this expected occurrence. After all, we do not know when the agency plans to replace the 68s; we just know the end of their nominal lifespan occurs in 2026 or so. On a side note, I really can't see the 68s retiring off any line besides the . It's like one of the few constants in life: the sun rises in the east, the two things you can't escape are death and taxes and the will always use 68s. F and R will be entirely R160 by then, as part of the QB CBTC project. I wouldn't reject the idea that R211s might end up on Queens Boulevard, but they wouldn't be directly replacing R46s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted April 1, 2017 Share #457 Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Delete Edited April 1, 2017 by R32 3671 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 2, 2017 Share #458 Posted April 2, 2017 F and R will be entirely R160 by then, as part of the QB CBTC project. And your source for that is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 2, 2017 Share #459 Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) And your source for that is? The Queens Boulevard CBTC contracts, which pay for the conversion of 309 sets of R160s, enough to outfit the E F M and R+ 25% spare factor. Edited April 2, 2017 by Art Vandelay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted April 2, 2017 Share #460 Posted April 2, 2017 The Queens Boulevard CBTC contract.Honestly the R211s are pretty much around the corner. No need to move them.Speaking of, I heard part of this rumor before, and it was that the R46s were to be moved to CI and run on the . I absolutely hate this rumor given the issues R46s usually have on Brighton and the fact that again the R211s are likely to come as soon as the R179s finish delivery. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if R179 delivery still continues as The first R211s come in at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtoro7 Posted April 2, 2017 Share #461 Posted April 2, 2017 The Queens Boulevard CBTC contract.According to Wikipedia, "The contract's project totals 1025 cars, or 1545 with all options exercised, that will all be linked in 5-car sets. The contract is split into three parts: R211A, R211S, and R211T. The base order of 285 cars will comprise 10 R211T open-gangway prototype cars, 75 R211S cars to replace the remaining 63-car R44 fleet on the Staten Island Railway, and 200 R211A cars that will partially replace the 752 aging R46 cars as well as R32s that are not replaced by the R179s.[2] There will be an option for either 740 R211A or R211T cars, depending on the success of the prototype R211T.[3] These cars would finish replacing the older R32s and R46s. There would also be one additional option for up to 520 cars, meaning that the total number of cars in the fleet could total 1545.[4] Any additional cars not replacing existing rolling stock will be used to expand the system's fleet." Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 2, 2017 Share #462 Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Honestly the R211s are pretty much around the corner. No need to move them. Speaking of, I heard part of this rumor before, and it was that the R46s were to be moved to CI and run on the . I absolutely hate this rumor given the issues R46s usually have on Brighton and the fact that again the R211s are likely to come as soon as the R179s finish delivery. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if R179 delivery still continues as The first R211s come in at this point. A. The R211s are not right around the corner. In the most optimistic of circumstances, they are 3 years away. If the MTA manages to actually order them without delay, and whichever builders end up being selected end up building them without issue. Recent orders give me no reason to be optimistic. Even if the R179s are further delayed, there will still be a substantial gap between them an the R211. B. There are no issues with regards to R46s on the Brighton line. C. Being able to function on a line is a very good reason to move the equipment. When CBTC goes live, R46s cannot run on Queens Boulevard. Edited April 2, 2017 by Art Vandelay 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 2, 2017 Share #463 Posted April 2, 2017 CBTC will not be going live before the R211s get here... This rumor that Jamaica is going to become 100% R160 has come up every year since the last option cars got delivered and ever year it doesn't come to fruition. Especially considering that Car Equipment, according to ENY just set in stone that the and are getting R211s, I highly doubt Jamaica and the will ever be 100% R160. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted April 2, 2017 Share #464 Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) CBTC will not be going live before the R211s get here... This rumor that Jamaica is going to become 100% R160 has come up every year since the last option cars got delivered and ever year it doesn't come to fruition. Especially considering that Car Equipment, according to ENY just set in stone that the and are getting R211s, I highly doubt Jamaica and the will ever be 100% R160. You do know that even ENY, especially this early in the procurement with the 211s, would probably say nothing is really set in stone until it happens right? A lot can happen between now and the arrival of the 211's. Even among the crews and inside RTO we told each other what we hear and know its still not set in stone until it happens. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk Edited April 2, 2017 by Far Rock Depot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted April 2, 2017 Share #465 Posted April 2, 2017 You do know that even ENY, especially this early in the procurement with the 211s, would probably say nothing is really set in stone until it happens right? A lot can happen between now and the arrival of the 211's. Even among the crews and inside RTO we told each other what we hear and know its still not set in stone until it happens. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk Even though you are correct, I still feel I need to point out that R46s will not be seen on the or any other Coney Island Yard train. The R211s can indeed go anywhere, but the R46s are staying and dying in Jamaica and Pitkin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielhg121 Posted April 2, 2017 Share #466 Posted April 2, 2017 Do the and share equipment? Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted April 2, 2017 Share #467 Posted April 2, 2017 It may not become 100% 160, but it would be 100% NTT. The whole point of the rumor was the need for CBTC compatibility, and either the 160 or 211 can do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 2, 2017 Share #468 Posted April 2, 2017 Do the and share equipment? Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app They share the 160s since both are based out of Jamaica 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RES2773 Posted April 2, 2017 Share #469 Posted April 2, 2017 To get the 75' cars off those lines ASAP... They would particularly help with the because the 1st and 4th cars are usually the most crowded (due to the positioning of the exits along the and the train's short length) and open gangways would allow passengers to spread out. The would be okay with R160's but I do think crowding on the has reached the point where open gangway cars are necessary. The and could use some open gangway trains, but I would just spread the love a bit... The G might actually work. Especially if the MTA wants to test these trains, it's a good line to do it on. However, the overcrowding on some cars could be fixed more simply with better signage to stand in the middle of the platform. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 2, 2017 Share #470 Posted April 2, 2017 CBTC will not be going live before the R211s get here... This rumor that Jamaica is going to become 100% R160 has come up every year since the last option cars got delivered and ever year it doesn't come to fruition. Especially considering that Car Equipment, according to ENY just set in stone that the and are getting R211s, I highly doubt Jamaica and the will ever be 100% R160. IF the MTA expected that both the R211 were going to Jamaica and the R211 were coming before Queens CBTC were going online, the MTA would not be paying millions (IN THE QUEENS CBTC CONTRACT) to outfit enough precisely enough R160s with CBTC to reliably operate the full Queens Boulevard fleet. Something that is a major element of a signed contract is not a rumor. (Nowhere here am I saying that the R211s will not go to Queens Boulevard. Just that if they do, and the Queens CBTC project is on schedule, it is R160s that they will be bumping elsewhere, not R46s.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted April 2, 2017 Share #471 Posted April 2, 2017 IF the MTA expected that both the R211 were going to Jamaica and the R211 were coming before Queens CBTC were going online, the MTA would not be paying millions (IN THE QUEENS CBTC CONTRACT) to outfit enough precisely enough R160s with CBTC to reliably operate the full Queens Boulevard fleet. Something that is a major element of a signed contract is not a rumor. (Nowhere here am I saying that the R211s will not go to Queens Boulevard. Just that if they do, and the Queens CBTC project is on schedule, it is R160s that they will be bumping elsewhere, not R46s.) http://lkcomstock.com/sites/default/files/Release-MTA-Queens-Blvd-CBTC.pdfThey latest the project can be finished is 2021. And they just recently began the project in January of this year. To me that's plenty of time for QBL to get rid of the R46s and have the R211s come in. Speaking of, if CBTC is already operating on sections of the , why are there still R62As there? Not saying it's actually in operation, but it's a bit odd to still see R62As there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 2, 2017 Share #472 Posted April 2, 2017 IF the MTA expected that both the R211 were going to Jamaica and the R211 were coming before Queens CBTC were going online, the MTA would not be paying millions (IN THE QUEENS CBTC CONTRACT) to outfit enough precisely enough R160s with CBTC to reliably operate the full Queens Boulevard fleet. Something that is a major element of a signed contract is not a rumor. (Nowhere here am I saying that the R211s will not go to Queens Boulevard. Just that if they do, and the Queens CBTC project is on schedule, it is R160s that they will be bumping elsewhere, not R46s.) Then, show me the language in the contract that specifically says x number of R160s instead of x number CBTC kits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 2, 2017 Share #473 Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) http://lkcomstock.com/sites/default/files/Release-MTA-Queens-Blvd-CBTC.pdf They latest the project can be finished is 2021. And they just recently began the project in January of this year. To me that's plenty of time for QBL to get rid of the R46s and have the R211s come in. Speaking of, if CBTC is already operating on sections of the , why are there still R62As there? Not saying it's actually in operation, but it's a bit odd to still see R62As there. The CBTC contract was signed in 2015. Installation is well underway now. The R211 order has not even been placed yet. There are 4 bidders as of yet, 3 of which have immense backlogs, the fourth of which is a major unknown, as it has not yet built a single car in the continent. Expecting the R211 to come in by the time CBTC turns on is shaky at best, especially with NYCT having a history of ordering equipment much later than any published plans. I believe they are doing the Flushing CBTC testing at night, although I could be mistaken on that. Then, show me the language in the contract that specifically says x number of R160s instead of x number CBTC kits. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/communications/siemens-lands-nyct-qbl-phase-1-cbtc-contract.html Edited April 2, 2017 by Art Vandelay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 2, 2017 Share #474 Posted April 2, 2017 The CBTC contract was signed in 2015. Installation is well underway now. The R211 order has not even been placed yet. There are 4 bidders as of yet, 3 of which have immense backlogs, the fourth of which is a major unknown, as it has not yet built a single car in the continent. Expecting the R211 to come in by the time CBTC turns on is shaky at best, especially with NYCT having a history of ordering equipment much later than any published plans. I believe they are doing the Flushing CBTC testing at night, although I could be mistaken on that. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/communications/siemens-lands-nyct-qbl-phase-1-cbtc-contract.html That's... interesting. This still doesn't change the fact that this rumor has been posited every year since 2010 and still hasn't gone through... I wouldn't be surprised if the 309 R160 sets in Siemens' contract also include cars for the 8 Av CBTC project 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted April 5, 2017 Share #475 Posted April 5, 2017 An R143 set has apparently been retrofitted to collect data for open gangway cars (the future R211T). Several people spotted it on Astoria, Broadway and 4th Avenue last week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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