What is the planned subway service changes for the budget cuts?

[Q39 to Ridgewood]

Wonder what lines are going to run to and from where...

[Eric B]

Like to know myself, but it apparentely hasn;t been drawn up yet, and that's if they don't get the funds they're asking for.

[mrsman]

They probably don't want to release that information until they have to.  Service cuts are unpopular and could especially draw ire if they are seen to have a negative effect on the disadvantaged (poor, POC, disabled).  At some level, it would make sense to cut more severely in areas where demand is lower, something along the lines of not servicing the 50 or so least busy stations, but those stations are also likely to be in disadvantaged areas.

There certainly are a few threads on here where people speculated as to how they would cut service on the subway (and I'm sure buses and commuter trains as well, but I don't frequent those forums).

 

[Trainmaster5]

I really didn't want to enter the speculation game in the subways but if someone says there's going to be a 40% or so cut in service there's absolutely nothing in that statement that mentions any line or station elimination. IMO it just means running less trains. Period. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Trainmaster5
additional thought

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I really didn't want to enter the speculation game in the subways but if someone says there's going to be a 40% or so cut in service there's absolutely nothing in that statement that mentions any line or station elimination. IMO it just means running less trains. Period. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

If that were to be the case, there wouldn't be a need to run certain services at all like the , , and  for instance. They are weekday service only, no weeknights or weekend services. I respect your statement seeing as how we really don't know what the MTA plans on actually doing since sometimes it seems like they spin a wheel and see what it lands on for the plan of action. 

[danielhg121]

What are the chances they cut the Student Metrocard programs?

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, danielhg121 said:

What are the chances they cut the Student Metrocard programs?

That has to be the most retarded thing (apologies if that sounded rude as it's a dumb idea) if they actually do that. Unless if it's for this year and they reinstate the Student MetroCard Program next year, it wouldn't be bad because students that go to CUNY are online, students have the choice to stay home for school which is probably the more likely option they plan on doing. There is no other reason to cut Student MetroCards because students also rely on Subways and Buses to get to school.

[Bay Ridge Express]

51 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

That has to be the most retarded thing (apologies if that sounded rude as it's a dumb idea) if they actually do that. Unless if it's for this year and they reinstate the Student MetroCard Program next year, it wouldn't be bad because students that go to CUNY are online, students have the choice to stay home for school which is probably the more likely option they plan on doing. There is no other reason to cut Student MetroCards because students also rely on Subways and Buses to get to school.

I definitely wouldn't trust students with student metrocards during a pandemic... if anything, they'd feel practically obligated to use them even if they don't have to go to school. Do I think they should still keep them? Yes, but I don't know about supplying them for everyone if the majority of students are going to be staying home.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Bay Ridge Express

[Kevin Madson]

Well, we know that the shuttles, W, and G trains are likely the first to go as they are some of the lightest in terms of ridership. That's among the reasons why the W was cut the last time we had cuts here.

[mrsman]

1 hour ago, Kevin Madson said:

Well, we know that the shuttles, W, and G trains are likely the first to go as they are some of the lightest in terms of ridership. That's among the reasons why the W was cut the last time we had cuts here.

It's also true that  which have been cut also don't serve unique stations.  Cutting those services will reduce the frequency of trains as well as reducing some express train service but it has no effect on cutting access to any station or neighborhood.  It is the easiest way to make a cut.  But if you need to cut service overall by 40%, simply reducing service may not be enough - you will have to begin eliminating some service and some jobs as well, sadly.

[Kevin Madson]

15 minutes ago, mrsman said:

It's also true that  which have been cut also don't serve unique stations.  Cutting those services will reduce the frequency of trains as well as reducing some express train service but it has no effect on cutting access to any station or neighborhood.  It is the easiest way to make a cut.  But if you need to cut service overall by 40%, simply reducing service may not be enough - you will have to begin eliminating some service and some jobs as well, sadly.

What is the MTA thinking by getting rid of the 7 train?!?!

[FamousNYLover]

,42nd St(, , , ,  skip-stop/express might be disappear.

 Euclid Av Shuttle late night might be discontinued replaced by buses?

 No rush hour service to/from Flatbush Av.

 will properly reduce to 3 cars during weekends.

 Weekend, chambers St terminate/originate, late night Myrtle Av-Broadway.

 Local via Whitehall St all times.

: Local late night via Manhattan Bridge.

Franklin Av : Repalce by nearby B48?

 

 

 

[Kevin Madson]

7 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

,42nd St(, , , ,  skip-stop/express might be disappear.

 Euclid Av Shuttle late night might be discontinued replaced by buses?

 No rush hour service to/from Flatbush Av.

 will properly reduce to 3 cars during weekends.

 Weekend, chambers St terminate/originate, late night Myrtle Av-Broadway.

 Local via Whitehall St all times.

: Local late night via Manhattan Bridge.

Franklin Av : Repalce by nearby B48?

 

I can kinda see the last part happening.

 

 

[Union Tpke]

Expect service on par with the initial Essential Service Plan, and more drastic cuts to bus service.

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Expect service on par with the initial Essential Service Plan, and more drastic cuts to bus service.

You’ve got the right idea, IMO. I’d also like to point out that the  and the  are duplicative services, again in my opinion, and matter little in the grand scheme of RTO operations. Maybe we should just take a step back from “ the sky is falling “ rants and see what the  has in mind. The agency, the state, and the business community will have the final say no matter how much rail fans and the general public scream. It boils down to the Benjamins , period. My take. Carry on.

[trainfan22]

11 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

 

 

 

 will properly reduce to 3 cars during weekends.

 

 

 

 

They are not gonna make 3 car sets JUST for the line. The Frankin Ave shuttle cars is the only active B div fleet they can make in 3 car sets as the 68s assigned to the shuttle are still singles. And there's a very small amount of single R68s, not enough to make service I'd imagine.

[MHV9218]

As @Trainmaster5 has suggested, expect reductions in existing service, not cuts in lines. The MTA is not going to shut down a tunnel, but it will reduce the number of trains that use it. The agency has been very vague about what might happen thus far, and at this point we really can only pray that there is a Biden victory and funding is possible. If not, and Republicans stay in power, this is what they've warned:

 

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

As @Trainmaster5 has suggested, expect reductions in existing service, not cuts in lines. The MTA is not going to shut down a tunnel, but it will reduce the number of trains that use it. The agency has been very vague about what might happen thus far, and at this point we really can only pray that there is a Biden victory and funding is possible. If not, and Republicans stay in power, this is what they've warned:

 

Well I've said this before, but what would be the point in keeping some of the service around if its a reduction in service? Then again who knows, we certainly don't know what is going to happen if the doesn't get the federal aid (well we do, but we don't know what they plan on doing for this).

[LGA Link N Train]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:43 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

You’ve got the right idea, IMO. I’d also like to point out that the  and the  are duplicative services, again in my opinion, and matter little in the grand scheme of RTO operations. Maybe we should just take a step back from “ the sky is falling “ rants and see what the  has in mind. The agency, the state, and the business community will have the final say no matter how much rail fans and the general public scream. It boils down to the Benjamins , period. My take. Carry on.

...which is why I haven't really said anything in these last few threads regarding the topic of (MTA)'s budget shortfall. While I may have my own speculation as to what might happen, I also want to wait and see what will happen.

[bobtehpanda]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:07 PM, Vulturious said:

Well I've said this before, but what would be the point in keeping some of the service around if its a reduction in service? Then again who knows, we certainly don't know what is going to happen if the doesn't get the federal aid (well we do, but we don't know what they plan on doing for this).

A service every half hour is one you can still ride? Like this is pretty basic stuff.

"Closing" stations doesn't really save money, because the tunnels and stations still need to be maintained (they are holding up the street), they still need security, and the stations are not designed to be closed anyways. The only way to properly secure a "closed" station in a way that would reduce expenses significantly, would be to fill it in and seal it with concrete.

[Wallyhorse]

This would be how I would do a draconian cut, making it so all stations are still served by at least one line:

No changes

 No changes EXCEPT stops northbound at 79th and 86th Street

Shuttle between 96th Street and 148th Street-Lenox Terminal (terminates on northbound express track)

runs local in Brooklyn at all times and is extended to New Lots (otherwise no changes to current schedule)

runs as follows:
Weekdays, 6:00 AM-9:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Atlantic Avenue (express on full route)
Weekends, 8:00 AM-8:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge, local all the way
All other times: Shuttle from Dyre Avenue-East 180th Street
Neidred Avenue service eliminated.

 runs as it does now except for rush hour express service in the Bronx eliminated.

runs as it does now except for NO  as that is eliminated.

Times Square-Grand Central is eliminated (use  in Manhattan)

runs 24/7 as a local between 207th Street and Far Rockaway

 becomes a 6th Avenue local running rush hours ONLY between 2nd Avenue and 71st-Continental.

becomes a shuttle between Lefferts Boulevard and Euclid Avenue except rush hours when it runs as an express between Lefferts Boulevard and 34th Street-8th Avenue

 no changes

becomes local on Queens Boulevard at all times

 no changes

 no changes

officially become such and operates as it does now as between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel with peak direction rush hour <H> service between Rockaway Park and 34th Street-8th Avenue.

is truncated to Chambers Street at all times

 returns to brown and runs Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street-Bay Ridge at all times.

becomes a 4th Avenue and Broadway Local at all times, running via the tunnel between Atlantic-Barclays and Canal Street and on its current route otherwise

no changes

  and are eliminated

[4 via Mosholu]

7 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

This would be how I would do a draconian cut, making it so all stations are still served by at least one line:

No changes Agreed.

 No changes EXCEPT stops northbound at 79th and 86th Street Keep the 2 as is to the Bush with it's 1999 night local service pattern.

Shuttle between 96th Street and 148th Street-Lenox Terminal (terminates on northbound express track) Have the 3 continue to run to 42 to relay at night; otherwise daytime and evening service runs to the Bush.

runs local in Brooklyn at all times and is extended to New Lots (otherwise no changes to current schedule) It would likely be for the best; also cut out the Burnside and Bedford Park drop outs and Bedford Park put ins.

runs as follows:
Weekdays, 6:00 AM-9:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Atlantic Avenue (express on full route) Utica would be a better turnaround running express via Eastern Parkway while stopping at Franklin Botanic.
Weekends, 8:00 AM-8:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge, local all the way Bowling Green would be better; they just need to figure out how to make the inner South Ferry loop a revenue track, like they did for City Hall.
All other times: Shuttle from Dyre Avenue-East 180th Street I imagine this would be for the evening and night.
Nereid Avenue service eliminated. That would be suspended instead.

 runs as it does now except for rush hour express service in the Bronx eliminated. Only the midday express would face a temporary cut, but keep the East 177 runs anyway.

runs as it does now except for NO  as that is eliminated. The 7 can easily handle the local with eight minute headways daytime and evening and fifteen overnight.

Times Square-Grand Central is eliminated (use  in Manhattan) Keep the 42 Street Shuttle for the foreseeable future.

runs 24/7 as a local between 207th Street and Far Rockaway Mott Avenue runs express daytime and evenings with nights being local; Lefferts Boulevard runs kept local daytime and evenings.

 becomes a 6th Avenue local running rush hours ONLY between 2nd Avenue and 71st-Continental. Have the B run from 168 to 2nd as an express while switching at West Fourth Street weekdays and weekend days.

becomes a shuttle between Lefferts Boulevard and Euclid Avenue except rush hours when it runs as an express between Lefferts Boulevard and 34th Street-8th Avenue I would extend the C to Lefferts from Bedford Park Boulevard during rush hours to keep the D express between Fordham and 145, middays and evenings would begin from 145, nights and weekends would be the Lefferts Shuttle to Euclid, terminating on the express track at Euclid.

 no changes That would only be possible if the C made all stops in the Bronx rush hours to keep the D express.

becomes local on Queens Boulevard at all times Better to keep the E on the express to Parsons Archer; nights continue to be local and evenings and weekends are local east of Continental. Weekdays are express east of Continental from 6AM to 6PM.

 no changes The one thing that can be done is to cut the rush peak F express from Jay Street Borough Hall to Kensington Church Avenue.

 no changes Look into re extending the G to Continental to cover the R, or else keep it as is terminating at Long Island City and NOT cut the R.

officially become such and operates as it does now as between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel with peak direction rush hour <H> service between Rockaway Park and 34th Street-8th Avenue. Externally call it the H running from Broad Channel to Beach 116 Street.

is truncated to Chambers Street at all times Have it be the 95 Street - Fort Hamilton service.

 returns to brown and runs Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street-Bay Ridge at all times. Let the M be the Met to Chambers Nassau service with nightly runs to Myrtle.

becomes a 4th Avenue and Broadway Local at all times, running via the tunnel between Atlantic-Barclays and Canal Street and on its current route otherwise Run this as an express to 96 Street to keep the express deinterlined. Keep the local via Whitehall overnight.

no changes That's okay.

  and are eliminated

Have the R run from Continental to Whitehall Street with the Fort Hamilton to Court Street section covered by the J and the W can be on a reduced weekday schedule.

The Z needs to be a supplement backbone Nassau service running to Broad Street from Broadway Eastern Parkway while running peak direction express service west of there.

Replies boldened and color coded as well.

Edited September 22, 2020 by 4 via Mosholu

[Mtatransit]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:23 PM, Vulturious said:

That has to be the most retarded thing (apologies if that sounded rude as it's a dumb idea) if they actually do that. Unless if it's for this year and they reinstate the Student MetroCard Program next year, it wouldn't be bad because students that go to CUNY are online, students have the choice to stay home for school which is probably the more likely option they plan on doing. There is no other reason to cut Student MetroCards because students also rely on Subways and Buses to get to school.

MTA does not get reimbursed fully with the Student Metrocard program. The deficit I believe has been getting bigger and bigger. It is not unreasonable for the MTA to cut this program. 

In short, the city or state should cover the deficit.

On 9/3/2020 at 6:45 AM, Kevin Madson said:

What is the MTA thinking by getting rid of the 7 train?!?!

That is not the official plan. The map was created by a group advocating for transit of the reductions needed to close the budget gap

On 9/21/2020 at 12:02 PM, Wallyhorse said:

This would be how I would do a draconian cut, making it so all stations are still served by at least one line:

No changes

 No changes EXCEPT stops northbound at 79th and 86th Street. 

- No just keep it express

Shuttle between 96th Street and 148th Street-Lenox Terminal (terminates on northbound express track)

- I would eliminate this service

runs local in Brooklyn at all times and is extended to New Lots (otherwise no changes to current schedule)

runs as follows:
Weekdays, 6:00 AM-9:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Atlantic Avenue (express on full route)
Weekends, 8:00 AM-8:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge, local all the way
All other times: Shuttle from Dyre Avenue-East 180th Street
Neidred Avenue service eliminated.

- I would cut this service between Dyre and E180th full time and run the  local full time

 runs as it does now except for rush hour express service in the Bronx eliminated.

runs as it does now except for NO  as that is eliminated.

Times Square-Grand Central is eliminated (use  in Manhattan)

runs 24/7 as a local between 207th Street and Far Rockaway

 becomes a 6th Avenue local running rush hours ONLY between 2nd Avenue and 71st-Continental.

- No I would just eliminate this service. No need to bring the  back in this capacity

becomes a shuttle between Lefferts Boulevard and Euclid Avenue except rush hours when it runs as an express between Lefferts Boulevard and 34th Street-8th Avenue

- If you are running the  local, I would just eliminate the  

 no changes

becomes local on Queens Boulevard at all times

 no changes

 no changes

- I would eliminate service between Smith-9th and Church Ave

officially become such and operates as it does now as between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel with peak direction rush hour <H> service between Rockaway Park and 34th Street-8th Avenue.

- Absolutely no need for this service. You are adding service, not reducing it

is truncated to Chambers Street at all times

- I would keep it at Broad St aleast on weekdays

 returns to brown and runs Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street-Bay Ridge at all times.

- No way. Run the  to Essex St and call it a day

becomes a 4th Avenue and Broadway Local at all times, running via the tunnel between Atlantic-Barclays and Canal Street and on its current route otherwise

no changes

  and are eliminated

Bare in mind. These cuts are NO WHERE near 40%. Cuts will therefore have to go much deeper than this

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mtatransit

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Bare in mind. These cuts are NO WHERE near 40%. Cuts will therefore have to go much deeper than this

What's the chance (speaking of percentages) they'll go ham in cutting express service of any sort, in conjunction with consolidating trips within the remaining local services......

It's enough that people already have to wake up & leave earlier now, if they gotta get to work between that 6am-7am timeframe, being that the subway starts running for passenger consumption around 5am.....

[darkstar8983]

5 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

MTA does not get reimbursed fully with the Student Metrocard program. The deficit I believe has been getting bigger and bigger. It is not unreasonable for the MTA to cut this program. 

In short, the city or state should cover the deficit.

That is not the official plan. The map was created by a group advocating for transit of the reductions needed to close the budget gap

Bare in mind. These cuts are NO WHERE near 40%. Cuts will therefore have to go much deeper than this

My version of the cuts would be:

 - keep service pattern as is, but frequency reduced to 5 minutes during rush hours, 8 minutes middays and evenings, & weekends

 - keep service pattern and frequency as is

 - eliminated

 - local in Brooklyn, service every 5-6 minutes during rush hours instead of every 4.

 - every 12 minutes from Dyre Av to Bowling Green only. (Or if we need to cut further, just run shuttle service every 20 minutes from Dyre Av to East 180 St)

 - service frequency reduced to every 5 minutes (no express train) during rush hours, every 8 minutes all other times except late nights

 - service frequency every 4 minutes during rush hours, no express. Service every 6-8 minutes middays, evenings, and weekends.

 - no Rockaway Park rush hour service: service every 8-10 minutes between 207 St and Rockaway Blvd during rush hours (lowered frequency past that point), every 12 minutes middays, evenings and weekends.

 - eliminated

 - keep the 12 minute headway

 - every 12 minutes from 205 St to Stillwell Av. Service pattern unchanged

 - service every 12 minutes, local East of 71 Av all times

 - service every 12 minutes

 - service every 12 minutes

 - service every 8-10 minutes rush hours, every 12 minutes all other times (No skip-stop service)

 - service reduced to every 10 minutes 

 - weekday service every 12 minutes (but still the full route to 71 Av). 

- service reduced to every 12 minutes (local from 34 St-Herald Sq to Canal St via Manhattan Bridge).  train eliminated

 - unchanged

 - service every 12 minutes

 

if we need to cut further, then cut the  back to Essex St. 
 

service can not be cut further because then you would be violating the social distancing guidelines (hence why the A-Division didn’t see many cuts to frequency compared to the B-Division)