R179 Discussion Thread

[Bosco]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:39 PM, VIP said:

Who said that? They’re staying put for the time being...

The goal is to have ENY be 100% NTT well in time for the shutdown, so they will go to other lines.  Which line they run on remains to be seen.

[VIP]

18 hours ago, Bosco said:

The goal is to have ENY be 100% NTT well in time for the shutdown, so they will go to other lines.  Which line they run on remains to be seen.

We all know this, but again, they could easily stay East New York and retire directly from there. The previous user made an assumption that once the last set of R32’s gets transferred THEN the R42’s will get transferred out. Practical scenario is they stay until the 179 order is complete, or permanently stay at East New York as spares. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

4 hours ago, VIP said:

We all know this, but again, they could easily stay East New York and retire directly from there. The previous user made an assumption that once the last set of R32’s gets transferred THEN the R42’s will get transferred out. Practical scenario is they stay until the 179 order is complete, or permanently stay at East New York as spares. 

That will most likely be the situation with the r42's. I don't think that they'll be retired before the shutdown, but I doubt that they will run at all during the shutdown, especially if all continues to work smoothly with the 8 car r179's. 

[U-BahnNYC]

Any word on the 5-car sets? 3015-3019 has arrived but what about 3010-3014?

[U-BahnNYC]

On 9/14/2018 at 11:05 PM, Bosco said:

Which line they run on remains to be seen.

Not to sound impatient, but it's been months since delivery started and the shutdown is only a half year away. When the hell is the MTA going to start rearranging the fleet or at least release a solid plan? Or are they waiting for the last minute as usual so they can screw everything up in typical fashion?

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

22 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Not to sound impatient, but it's been months since delivery started and the shutdown is only a half year away. When the hell is the MTA going to start rearranging the fleet or at least release a solid plan? Or are they waiting for the last minute as usual so they can screw everything up in typical fashion?

Some trains are already being arranged, like the R160 's going to the . And currently, im sure they already have a plan as to where there going to go, and a plan of rearranging the fleet before the shutdown. If so, there probably keeping it isolated since changes happen, and the public really can't influence the matters that much, nor care about which specific NTT or SMEE is going to a line. If your latter point is true, the MTA could waiting until the last minute since Bombardier hasn't delivered all the sets yet and the agency still is testing them. Just my (mostly unproven) thoughts. 

[Yankees4life]

On 9/10/2018 at 12:07 PM, j express said:

Any delivered subway car takes time to hit revenue service. You can’t just put the train in service right away off the flatbed truck. They have to do through testing and inspection before hitting revenue service. Give it time. 

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the R32s and R46s but they'll have to stay for now. Patience is key. Soon, the s will have the NTTs. Not now, tho

[darkstar8983]

4 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Some trains are already being arranged, like the R160 's going to the . And currently, im sure they already have a plan as to where there going to go, and a plan of rearranging the fleet before the shutdown. If so, there probably keeping it isolated since changes happen, and the public really can't influence the matters that much, nor care about which specific NTT or SMEE is going to a line. If your latter point is true, the MTA could waiting until the last minute since Bombardier hasn't delivered all the sets yet and the agency still is testing them. Just my (mostly unproven) thoughts. 

One thing that did cross my mind is the fact that since the shutdown will require off-peak service increases on the   and  lines, (and other subways routes that I cannot remember at the moment), the spare factor will need to be increased if reliability is to be maintained throughout the system. Not as many subway trains will be going out of service at the end of each rush hour, meaning each car will be running for a longer span of time (similar to how the  and run mainly the same headways all day). This means that the cars won't see much  time in the repair shops or rest-time. 

 

Because of this, it would be wise regardless of where any subway cars end up, that no cars get retired (unless absolutely necessary and unavoidably) because there are not really that many "surplus cars", at least until the  train shutdown is over and subway car requirements are reduced. 

[trainfan22]

There's another set of 179s at ENY ready to do burn testing, saw the numbers but I forgot. I know their new cars in the burn testing stage cause of the papers in the windows.

[Coney Island Av]

55 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

There's another set of 179s at ENY ready to do burn testing, saw the numbers but I forgot. I know their new cars in the burn testing stage cause of the papers in the windows.

It's 3142-3145 and 3146-3149. 

That set is the next one to enter  service. 

[m2fwannabe]

FYI.

East New York has the following fleet (confirmed through September 15):

34 R-32

50 R-42

212 CBTC R-143

64 CBTC R-160A

216 non-CBTC R-160A

80 R-179 (non-CBTC)

5 Types of equipment consists, 

656 cars total.

 

 

[m2fwannabe]

SIX types of consists, that is (separating CBTC from non-CBTC R-160A's).

[Lawrence St]

Isnt the middle track on Nassau CBTC?

[subwaycommuter1983]

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

[Lawrence St]

5 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

Kinda hard to do when Bombardier keeps messing up the order...

[R32 3838]

56 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

The R42's barely ran before the R32's tookover the line.

 

The whole B division fleet took a hit due to the car shortage. Once all the R179's are in, i would expect the mdbf to go up. The will have plenty of spare cars once the line is R32,46 and R179.

 

When 2nd ave opened, about 80% of the B division had barely any spares. That played a factor. Its obvious the older cars took a hit. The R32/42's ran on the 24/7 from 2015 until early-mid 2018. 

[Just New York]

5 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

SIX types of consists, that is (separating CBTC from non-CBTC R-160A's).

The CBTC R160A can run on all eastern division lines no need to separate.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Just New York

[RR503]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

So there isn't a single mention of subway car performance in that article... It simply says signal/mechanical issues, which can be really anything. 

Regardless, I'd like for you to look at this. Read that number next to "Subway Car" for me, would ya. Ah, yes, 3.1% of all delays. So, basically, irrelevant. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

9 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

But the majority of those mechanical problems were not related directly to the subway cars themselves, but rather the signals and the switches. And the MTA (unfortunately) couldn’t just divert money towards purchasing additional R179s. There’s a whole lengthy process they would have had to go through towards purchasing additional R179s beyond the original 300 they ordered. They’re only getting the 16 extra cars as a result of a settlement deal with Bombardier over the order being so far behind schedule.

And think about this, even if they could simply put more money towards ordering more R179s, what good would that do given how far behind Bombardier is on the order? Those cars would just be that much farther away from getting onto NYCT property and the MTA would have still had to spend that money to keep the R42s going. Were it not for Bombardier screwing up on the R179 order, the R42s would have already been gone by now. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Bosco]

16 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But the majority of those mechanical problems were not related directly to the subway cars themselves, but rather the signals and the switches. And the MTA (unfortunately) couldn’t just divert money towards purchasing additional R179s. There’s a whole lengthy process they would have had to go through towards purchasing additional R179s beyond the original 300 they ordered. They’re only getting the 16 extra cars as a result of a settlement deal with Bombardier over the order being so far behind schedule.

And think about this, even if they could simply put more money towards ordering more R179s, what good would that do given how far behind Bombardier is on the order? Those cars would just be that much farther away from getting onto NYCT property and the MTA would have still had to spend that money to keep the R42s going. Were it not for Bombardier screwing up on the R179 order, the R42s would have already been gone by now. 

The stay of execution for the R32s and R42s actually is more about the increase in fleet requirements rather than the delays in the R179 delivery.  The order was placed in 2012, when ridership was on the rise but still not reaching the near record levels set immediately after World War II.  Then there's the issue of the L train shutdown, which on its own requires more cars and they will likely keep levels close to that even after the shutdown, given the surge of ridership in Williamsburg.  Again, the order was placed before Hurricane Sandy, so the MTA in their shortsightedness did not think of increasing the spare factor for any of these reasons.

 

22 hours ago, RR503 said:

So there isn't a single mention of subway car performance in that article... It simply says signal/mechanical issues, which can be really anything. 

Regardless, I'd like for you to look at this. Read that number next to "Subway Car" for me, would ya. Ah, yes, 3.1% of all delays. So, basically, irrelevant. 

Spot on.  

 

On 9/17/2018 at 1:27 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

Many of the delays aren't just caused by signal issues, but right-of-way issues as trains have to merge and divert at interlockings the same way they did in the '30s.  If the fleet were so significant in the reliability of train service, why are lines such as the  and  some of the least reliable?

[Jemorie]

On 9/17/2018 at 1:27 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

For those who think that mechanical problems in subway cars don't affect service performance, read this article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-delays-riders-alliance-1.21064946

This will get worse due to the fact that the MTA did not purchase enough 10 car r179's and as a result the most unreliable cars: r32's and possibly the r42's will be preserved during the shutdown.

I'm pretty sure that the amount of money 💰that the MTA is spending on those old clunkers could've been used to purchase more 10 car r179's and we could've been in much better shape for the Canarsie shutdown. Imagine the A and G being fully NTT for the Canarsie shutdown. That would've happen if the MTA made the right decisions with the r179's.

I can't believe even to this day, you are literally the only member I know on this site who still thinks subway car performance contribute to major delays...aging signals/tracks, passenger crowding, track/signal workers, timers, and the subway's complexity (especially on the B Division) play a huge role of subway delays...

Edited September 19, 2018 by Jemorie

[subwaycommuter1983]

22 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

I can't believe even to this day, you are literally the only member I know on this site who still thinks subway car performance contribute to major delays...aging signals/tracks, passenger crowding, track/signal workers, timers, and the subway's complexity (especially on the B Division) play a huge role of subway delays...

FYI, I have never said in any previous post that aging signals/tracks, passenger crowding, track/signal workers, timers, and the subway's complexity does not play a huge role of subway delays. The article does mention those issues and I agree with it.

Also, passenger-related issues also affect service as well. I don't know the percentage, but that is something that federal, state and local government should take care of by providing more funding towards mental health.

[m2fwannabe]

It appears that 3130-3133 and 3138-3141 entered and service around September 14 (?).  They were already in separate trains on September 20.

[m2fwannabe]

4-car R-179 deliveries seem to have petered out 

[Railfan 007]

On 9/18/2018 at 11:21 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

FYI, I have never said in any previous post that aging signals/tracks, passenger crowding, track/signal workers, timers, and the subway's complexity does not play a huge role of subway delays. The article does mention those issues and I agree with it.

Also, passenger-related issues also affect service as well. I don't know the percentage, but that is something that federal, state and local government should take care of by providing more funding towards mental health.

True. However, any chance you can get, you endlessly harp on the fact there should be more R179s and the R32/42s need to leave. Do they have the lowest MDBF of the fleet? Yes. Should they be retired? Yes. Can MTA retire them right now without making the fleet shortage less problematic? No. So they are here to stay, probably until the R211s come in. Wanting the R32/42s to leave any sooner will cause more problems than it will solve.

6 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

It appears that 3130-3133 and 3138-3141 entered and service around September 14 (?).  They were already in separate trains on September 20.

 

6 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

4-car R-179 deliveries seem to have petered out 

I think, I'm not sure, the train sets are separated after they pass Burn-in and run in service for a few days is the reduce the usage of the cars until the entire fleet has arrived and is accepted by the MTA.

Each delivery of a 4-car set happens every 2 weeks or so, all that can be said is to be patient and wait. (Unless you want to camp at 207th until all the cars are delivered /s)