BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[IAlam]

 I don't give a crap what our next fare card looks like as long as it can read from all doors of a bus (i'm not a big fan of off-board bus payment) and riders can tap and go at busy subway stops. 

so how do you stop fare evasion then have more ppl at each door, cause then that adds to labor cost. 

[Jdog14]

so how do you stop fare evasion then have more ppl at each door, cause then that adds to labor cost. 

 

It's not like bus drivers really stop fare evasion. It happens all over, atleast once a day (I bet).

[Q113 LTD]

Any bus routes you know that are known to bunch a lot? I only know one route, which is the Q22. It's been like that way before the took over. Sometimes you see 2 or 3 buses seconds apart from each other. I remember during the Green Lines days, I was waiting for my school bus and I saw like 4 Q22 Orion V's heading towards Roxbury. All of them had to drop off some passengers. Even now, it's still like that.

[Cait Sith]

The MTA's current philosophy is that given the entire fare system should be changed within a couple years, whether it's a contactless system or what, it's a waste of time to come up with any new technology that will cost a ton of money to fill the gap in between. Something like a CharlieCard would be redundant by 2020-2025ish and it'd just be a waste to pour into that to quickly give it up. Plus, is the MetroCard that bad?

 

It's debatable.

 

In terms of having cards that have unlimited rides get damaged, it's bad.

Having cards that can't be read in certain turnstiles but reads in others, that can be bad.

Having above situation happen until it actually works, but then card says "Just used", that's bad.

Having cards that have value in it that can't be refilled or used, that can be bad.

 

And the worst thing about Metrocards, replacing them. When it comes to replacing metrocards, we know how long it takes. It took me 4-6 weeks to get a replacement for a 7 day unlimited. The Metrocard to me is both a blessing and a curse, a curse mostly because having damaged unlimited ride cards is definitely not fun.

 

The beauty of having smart cards is that you can register them online. If you happen to lose one, you can order a replacement with all of your rides and such intact, much like PATH's Smartcard. Replacements come in a matter of days compared to MTA's....weeks.....or even a month's time.

 

Seattle's Orca Card system works with pretty much everything, their buses, their railroads, their light rail and even their state ferries. We need something like that to make the pain of getting cards/tickets less painful, and something to ensure that our cards will actually work.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Cait Sith

[Fresh Pond]

Any bus routes you know that are known to bunch a lot? I only know one route, which is the Q22. It's been like that way before the took over. Sometimes you see 2 or 3 buses seconds apart from each other. I remember during the Green Lines days, I was waiting for my school bus and I saw like 4 Q22 Orion V's heading towards Roxbury. All of them had to drop off some passengers. Even now, it's still like that.

You're better off asking which lines DON'T bunch

[DetSMART45]

Honestly, Metrocard could have been "chipped" long ago.  Even though Oyster and others had to upgrade chips over time, the continuing reinvestment proves to be successful.  All London buses are now cashless, something that saves vaulting and associated maintenance, plus it speeds customer boardings/alightings.

 

Even the Translink Vancouver (Canada) system, with their antiquated fareboxes, is now using touch-in on the buses with paper media being discontinued -- so it IS something possible, even with old technology.  Will they be upgrading their old fareboxes?  Probably, since going cashless is something you cannot convince customers of doing overnight.  But you can do things like giving free transfers (like the CTA) if you use Metrocard, but cash fares only get you on each bus/subway.

 

SBS could be even more efficient had the MTA implemented this instead of sinking $50,000 per streetside collection device (plus all of the infrastructure requirements, vaulting, maintenance) at each selected stop.  SBS would be known as the "touch-in" service, and with that technology the Eagle Team would have more efficiency because they could actually read customers' cards to see if they paid, and basically assess an "instant" summons/fine attached to the card.  The card could automatically expire if certain conditions to contest or pay the summons amount were not completed in a prescribed amount of time.  (Translink is supposedly using this exact technology, at least according to their website regarding touch-in customers and enforcement.)

 

The whole "technology will be redundant" excuse is completely laughable on its face, and something that usually government/affiliated agencies use to "save face" when cornered.  I can imagine many of you have cycled through numerous mobile phones over the past 10 years -- just to keep up with "new" technology.  Has that cost you additional money over that time period?  Yes, but look how much more you can do now, you'll say.  Why should it be different for the MTA?  Businesses that want to be successful actually plan for obsolescence as part of regular business expense, and keeping ahead of their competition.  Part of that is also incorporated into the tax code in multi-year depreciation.

 

Chipping could have also made MNRR and LIRR much more efficient and eliminate a good amount of paper ticketing.  Touch-in and touch-out, just like in Europe, and your fare would be calculated automatically.  Plus you could throw in bonuses like using the railroads instead of the subway at a reduced rate, something being put up the flagpole and waiting for who's going to salute it.

 

Your commutes could have been made much easier, in paying for them, had the MTA committed to being more of a "cutting edge" system years ago.  You guys are being told you'll have to settle for using Windows 98 computers when everyone else is on Windows 8 or 10 or Macs.  And you've settled for it so far, why change things now?

[TrainFanInfinity]

I rode an MJQ RTS the other day and it had announcements saying "Please, do not stand in the rear doorway" whenever the rear doors were unlocked. I forgot the number but it was one of the 5200 series. I don't recall ever hearing it before... is this new?

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Interesting notes from today.

 

There are more M14D's than A's.

 

Also, an Orion VII Next Gen ran on the M14D heading westbound (bus number was 3825). Seems that MJQ is short on artics again.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Interesting notes from today.

 

There are more M14D's than A's.

 

Also, an Orion VII Next Gen ran on the M14D heading westbound (bus number was 3825). Seems that MJQ is short on artics again.

That's actually quite common. You'll see at least one during rush hour everyday. 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

I rode an MJQ RTS the other day and it had announcements saying "Please, do not stand in the rear doorway" whenever the rear doors were unlocked. I forgot the number but it was one of the 5200 series. I don't recall ever hearing it before... is this new?

I don't think its new, back in 2010 I've heard a 94xx or 91xx RTS from Ulmer Park say that when the bus started up. XD40 4862 has that announcement when someone stands near the door. I think its just an outdated program.

Edited April 15, 2016 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[Cait Sith]

Looks like they finally updated some codes. There's no more M14 UNION SQ or 8 AVE codes, now its actually designated. Seen (and shot) an M14D bound for Union Square with the proper code. I'm surprised they finally did it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Cait Sith

[Around the Horn]

Looks like they finally updated some codes. There's no more M14 UNION SQ or 8 AVE codes, now its actually designated. Seen (and shot) an M14D bound for Union Square with the proper code. I'm surprised they finally did it.

About time...

[Fresh Pond]

I rode an MJQ RTS the other day and it had announcements saying "Please, do not stand in the rear doorway" whenever the rear doors were unlocked. I forgot the number but it was one of the 5200 series. I don't recall ever hearing it before... is this new?

The 1998 & 1999 Novas came in like that. When you turn the bus on, it announces it (woman voice), and when someone pushes against the back doors when they're closed.

 

Doesn't always work, I remember one that would announce it 3 times in a row lol.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

The 1998 & 1999 Novas came in like that. When you turn the bus on, it announces it (woman voice), and when someone pushes against the back doors when they're closed.

 

Doesn't always work, I remember one that would announce it 3 times in a row lol.

I've only heard male voices on the RTS & on 4862.

[Around the Horn]

the MTA still hasn't fixed the typo on the O7 CNG's...

 

They still read: B37 ATLANTIC AV

                             BARLCAYS CTR

 

This has been going on since day one of the B37 2.0.

[Jdog14]

the MTA still hasn't fixed the typo on the O7 CNG's...

 

They still read: B37 ATLANTIC AV

                             BARLCAYS CTR

 

This has been going on since day one of the B37 2.0.

 

Don't think they are gonna bother with the buses being up for retirement anyway.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The Bx12 is just a hot mess today. Wide gaps in service all over the place and just too many short-turns. Why on earth do Westbound SBS short-turns to Sedgwick insist on using the local program? Even a pro like me gets confused as to whether those buses are local or Select. I ended up on a Bay Plaza bound bus earlier that ended up short-turning at PBP leaving me to wait for a packed bus to go into Co-op. Sad thing is when this bus pulls into PBP there was a bus just ahead of it which was more crowded the whole way along Pelham Parkway and ended up going ahead to Co-op so the passengers which were dropped off of the short turn didn't get the chance to just quickly change buses which is what usually happens with PBP short turns.

 

On a side note the NYPD was out playing the role of Eagle Team at Pelham Parkway/WPR checking Eastbound buses. Those who didn't pay (everyone on my bus paid assuming they didn't take a ticket from someone who got off earlier) may have gotten a booking in addition to their fine depending on what the NYPD records could find. Also, is there some official rule which gives the NYPD the authority to fill in for the eagle team if they are at an SBS stop or can the cops just do anything that even remotely relates to enforcement?

Edited April 15, 2016 by JubaionBx12+SBS

[DaTransitMan4608]

While writing a research paper about the M100's overcrowding for one of my classes. I decided to do a count on how many artics vs standard buses are in the Bronx altogether. 

 

370 artics and 400 Standards 

 

This surprised me. All this time I was thinking there were more artics than 40ft buses in the Bronx.

 

I didn't include the Express buses in this count. 

[Jdog14]

While writing a research paper about the M100's overcrowding for one of my classes. I decided to do a count on how many artics vs standard buses are in the Bronx altogether. 

 

370 artics and 400 Standards 

 

This surprised me. All this time I was thinking there were more artics than 40ft buses in the Bronx.

 

I didn't include the Express buses in this count. 

 

The Bronx probably has the most artics of any borough. It adds up.

[SubBus]

On L train shuttle bus #4617 out of Flatbush. It have a B100 schedule with a B46 and B49 schedules. Weird??

Edited April 17, 2016 by SubBus

[DetSMART45]

The Bx12 is just a hot mess today. Wide gaps in service all over the place and just too many short-turns. Why on earth do Westbound SBS short-turns to Sedgwick insist on using the local program? Even a pro like me gets confused as to whether those buses are local or Select. I ended up on a Bay Plaza bound bus earlier that ended up short-turning at PBP leaving me to wait for a packed bus to go into Co-op. Sad thing is when this bus pulls into PBP there was a bus just ahead of it which was more crowded the whole way along Pelham Parkway and ended up going ahead to Co-op so the passengers which were dropped off of the short turn didn't get the chance to just quickly change buses which is what usually happens with PBP short turns.

 

On a side note the NYPD was out playing the role of Eagle Team at Pelham Parkway/WPR checking Eastbound buses. Those who didn't pay (everyone on my bus paid assuming they didn't take a ticket from someone who got off earlier) may have gotten a booking in addition to their fine depending on what the NYPD records could find. Also, is there some official rule which gives the NYPD the authority to fill in for the eagle team if they are at an SBS stop or can the cops just do anything that even remotely relates to enforcement?

Not out of the question that NYPD can enforce transit ordinances since they are the next agency up for the area.  MTA Police/Eagle Team reports to the NYPD, and if they have noted high incidences of farebeating at a certain stop on any SBS route (or any route, really), NYPD could send out a detail to put a better enforcement presence forward.  I'd imagine a lot of customers view Eagle Team as a "rent-a-cop"/security guard force, so if the NYPD officers show up -- with the potential of running on the spot background checks, just like a traffic stop -- there's a bit more attention paid.

 

There may have been some backstory for the NYPD hitting that stop.  Could have been doing some recon, possibly looking for someone who lives within the area, or even as a more stern-er fare enforcement tactic if Eagle Team summonses from that area have a higher percentage of nonpayment.

 

The real question to be asked is if, since the NYPD itself was doing this operation at this location/time, was the Eagle Team out being productive at other locations?  Ideally, they should have been, since their workload had been lightened a bit.  But did they take advantage of the opportunity ..........

[B35 via Church]

While writing a research paper about the M100's overcrowding for one of my classes. I decided to do a count on how many artics vs standard buses are in the Bronx altogether. 

 

370 artics and 400 Standards 

 

This surprised me. All this time I was thinking there were more artics than 40ft buses in the Bronx.....

Interesting that you have a class where you can write a paper about a particular bus route....

What class/course is this, if you don't mind?

 

What you make a mention of here is something that I never thought about; the percentage/ratio of artics to 40'-ers in the borough.... If you break down which routes are (mainly) artic only, 40' only, or a random mix of the 2 (I won't do that here, but that would be a good idea for a separate thread), you'll find that there are more routes that are still 40' only.... What makes the ratio of artics to 40 footers as close as it is borough-wide/overall, is the fact that the routes that artics are being operated on - have higher frequencies (meaning, more BPH).....

 

You have the Bx12's, Bx19's, etc. of the world, but there are more Bx30's, Bx16's, Bx8's, etc of the world..... Which you'd think there would be anyway..... If every single route in the Bronx a] ran artics & b] had Bx12/19 ridership, patrons of the borough would be in trouble if they needed the bus to get around....

 

I mean hell, just take a gander at Jubai's commentaries about the Bx12 -

....Now imagine that 30+ times over (however many local bus routes are in the Bronx; someone can count that up if they feel like)

 

On L train shuttle bus #4617 out of Flatbush. It have a B100 schedule with a B46 and B49 schedules. Weird??

If it was just one B100 schedule, I wouldn't pay it any attention....

Edited April 17, 2016 by B35 via Church

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

To further elaborate on B35's comment here's a list of routes in the Bronx separated by artic presence 

 

Routes running mainly artics: Bx1/2, Bx4/4a, Bx5, Bx9, Bx12/12 SBS, Bx15, Bx19, Bx22, Bx39, Bx40/42, Bx41/41SBS

Routes with mainly 40 footers which are given artic runs regularly during rush hour: Bx28/38, Bx36

Routes using mainly 40 footers: Bx3, Bx6, Bx7, Bx8, Bx10, Bx11, Bx13, Bx16, Bx17, Bx18, Bx20, Bx21, Bx23, Bx24, Bx26, Bx27, Bx29, Bx30, Bx31, Bx32, Bx33, Bx34, Bx35.

 

As we can see there are a lot more routes using 40 foot buses then artics in the Bronx but there are almost as many artics as 40 footers which supports B35's argument that artic routes are running at higher frequencies than the 40 foot routes. I would like to add that on average the aritc routes are longer than the 40 foot routes which adds to the service requirement as well. 

 

For kicks let's see how Manhattan fares in this discussion since there's a good deal of artics there.

Routes using mainly artics: M14, M15/15 SBS, M23, M34/34A SBS, M60 SBS, M79, M86 SBS, M101, M102, M103

Routes using mainly 40 footers with a regular artic presence: M35, M100

Routes using mainly 40 footers: M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, M7, M8, M9, M10, M11, M12, M20, M21, M22, M31, M42, M50, M57, M66, M72, M96, M98, M104, M106, M116

Edited April 17, 2016 by JubaionBx12+SBS

[Q43LTD]

I remember in 2008, I rode an artic on the M31 and in 2010 I rode an artic on the 116...was that because they were from 126 at the time?

[junion]

Does anyone have any ideas how to make the union turnpike / queens blvd subway(E/F) to Q46 transfer better. The current state of affairs requires busses to loop around on queens blvd which can take up to five minutes during rush hours.