BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Jdog14]

Soon as those hit the q111/113/114 they'll be destroyed.

 

they won't be destroyed.It's good that BP is getting XD60's because it's way better than seeing those OG'S..

 

The floors will be nasty for sure.

[Q113 LTD]

Wait for awhile before you start seeing trash under the seat, empty bag of chips or bottle on the seat. I have seen that on the XN40 on NICE lastly. By the way, it is hard to wash off permanent marker? Because I usually see writings on the back of the seats, especially near the back of the bus.

[Rafa]

Some passengers just don't appreciate nothing. Brand new xd60 and I already see graffiti on the seats. One I saw last week coming in from a shift and boy was it dirty. Some nasty thing actually sat down and eat sunflower seeds and drop all the shells on the floor. Not to mention the people who eat and drop the garbage underneath the seats or use the side of seats as coffee cup garbage bins.  

[DaTransitMan4608]

When the announces they're getting new buses but you know you're gonna be the last to get them (couldn't do MHV ).

[DetSMART45]

Some passengers just don't appreciate nothing. Brand new xd60 and I already see graffiti on the seats. One I saw last week coming in from a shift and boy was it dirty. Some nasty thing actually sat down and eat sunflower seeds and drop all the shells on the floor. Not to mention the people who eat and drop the garbage underneath the seats or use the side of seats as coffee cup garbage bins.  

Wow, many NYC people must be self-centered pigs (makes you wonder how the insides of their houses look).  But the MTA should be plenty used to it, so you'd think they'd make a point of keeping the newest of the fleet tidier.  Detroit's Xcelsiors (both 40s and artics) operate Monday through Friday and are pulled on weekends for full maintenance.  Haven't encountered one yet dirty, tagged or having damage to the outside -- the bus operators must be told to help keep them clean.  Most I've seen has been the odd transfers on the seats or floor and possibly minor trash, but nothing like you describe.

 

The oldie D40s and Gilligs still have a bit more problems with trash and graffiti, plus the outsides can be mighty scraped up, but usually they're not in any pigpen-type condition.  DDOT used to be very complacent when it came to cleaning the interiors, and floors especially were quite nasty.  That looks to have been remedied, and in fact, I see more of an effort done on DDOT buses than SMART -- when it was just the opposite up to about 2 years ago.  Plus all of the DDOT fleet (except around 50) have the vandal-resistant stainless steel seats, so permanent marker is very easily dealt with.

 

Just imagine the gum, drinking straws, paper and garbage that will be stuffed into those charging ports.  And if the MTA isn't paying attention to the overall cleanliness of the new vehicles, do you think they're going to be fixing those "oh so necessary to customers' daily commutes" parts on a regular basis?  New livery on the outside, same old everything on the inside.  Money well spent, right?

[Fresh Pond]

Wow, many NYC people must be self-centered pigs (makes you wonder how the insides of their houses look). But the MTA should be plenty used to it, so you'd think they'd make a point of keeping the newest of the fleet tidier. Detroit's Xcelsiors (both 40s and artics) operate Monday through Friday and are pulled on weekends for full maintenance. Haven't encountered one yet dirty, tagged or having damage to the outside -- the bus operators must be told to help keep them clean. Most I've seen has been the odd transfers on the seats or floor and possibly minor trash, but nothing like you describe.

 

The oldie D40s and Gilligs still have a bit more problems with trash and graffiti, plus the outsides can be mighty scraped up, but usually they're not in any pigpen-type condition. DDOT used to be very complacent when it came to cleaning the interiors, and floors especially were quite nasty. That looks to have been remedied, and in fact, I see more of an effort done on DDOT buses than SMART -- when it was just the opposite up to about 2 years ago. Plus all of the DDOT fleet (except around 50) have the vandal-resistant stainless steel seats, so permanent marker is very easily dealt with.

 

Just imagine the gum, drinking straws, paper and garbage that will be stuffed into those charging ports. And if the MTA isn't paying attention to the overall cleanliness of the new vehicles, do you think they're going to be fixing those "oh so necessary to customers' daily commutes" parts on a regular basis? New livery on the outside, same old everything on the inside. Money well spent, right?

There's over 6,000 buses that run 24/7 to look after. Doesn't matter if its 20 years old or even 2 weeks old, its still gonna get messed up the same way.

[DetSMART45]

There's over 6,000 buses that run 24/7 to look after. Doesn't matter if its 20 years old or even 2 weeks old, its still gonna get messed up the same way.

Golly ... don't you get tired of spreading you legs hoping you'll ....... oh, whoops, continuing that could get me an "infraction" here ..... and this time, it's not only VG8 giving you a downvote for your response but someone else.

 

Everyone's a winner, all opinions are valued, say it, "kumbayaaaaaa" .....

 

Bullshit ...... excuses are exactly that: EXCUSES.  There is NO reason why the MTA shouldn't be maintaining its' stock to "new or nearly-new" condition at every turn.

 

YOU put up with what you get, you DESERVE what you get.  You'd be throwing a fit if you had to clean your own seat or put a shopping bag down before you sat because some asswipe left a mess, but then you "justify" it.

 

Obviously, you don't see what's right in front of your face.  Without YOUR tax dollars, the MTA would not exist.  So put your pom-poms down, THINK, and work from that point.

 

Go ahead and censure me if you think I'm so vitriolic to the discussion here, just because you have "Moderator" status (like your "threat" on the other thread that you decided you should get involved in -- which never warranted any such intervention).

 

You want discussion, yet anything contrary to your own point of view is somehow irrelevant or inflammatory, especially when it comes to your vaunted "mother", the MTA.

 

Being a cheerleader gets you a reputation, and it's not necessarily a positive one.  Especially when you're able to take on the whole team without putting up a good fight before the skirt falls to the ground.

[checkmatechamp13]

There's over 6,000 buses that run 24/7 to look after. Doesn't matter if its 20 years old or even 2 weeks old, its still gonna get messed up the same way.

 

...which is why there should be a sufficient staff of cleaners to take care of this type of stuff. Each individual bus isn't out on the road 24/7. Whenever it pulls into the depot is when it should be taken care of.

Edited April 28, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[DetSMART45]

...which is why there should be a sufficient staff of cleaners to take care of this type of stuff. Each individual bus isn't out on the road 24/7. Whenever it pulls into the depot is when it should be taken care of.

Just to add:

The operators should have some sort of responsibility.  Before any of you get your panties wadded up, especially with the Union thinking of "jobs lost", the Operator represents the MTA and everything it stands for, and is the front-lines person (after all, any complaints cite the Operator anyway) in CUSTOMER SERVICE.

 

Therefore, if the Operator allows their "office" to be a pigpen/free-for-all zone, then people will just assume that's the way it is.

 

How many complaints (just recently, skim back on the pages) are made about Operators not "in charge" of the bus?  That effects an awful lot, and if you really think about it ... it does.  From telling people to move back to bouncing people off when they violate the rules that the MTA has in place to benefit all customers, it's up to the Operator at the end of the day.

 

If a clean bus pulls up and customers notice it (yeah, they DO), then they'll keep it that way.  You'll always have some bonehead who decides to do whatever, but cut it short, it'll stop.

 

How much effort does it really take, after all, for an Operator on layover to walk through the bus and pick up -- IF it's instilled to begin with?

 

If DDOT drivers (who had a pervasive attitude of not caring to begin with because of a "hostile" workplace) can put up mere shopping bags at the front and rear doors to encourage customers to put trash and used transfers in them instead of on the floors, MTA Operators can do that little bit extra as well.  Just that little thing works wonders, believe me.

 

As to the MTA and their cleaning crews:  It amazes me that they don't use the vandal-resistant seating from American Seating to begin with.  Especially since they already know what treatment they're in for.  Guess little old Detroit (and other TAs) know something the brilliant minds of the MTA doesn't.  I'll take some pride in that for the DDOT, and let them know in a compliment -- something which will surely get a personal response from them (since my complaints have fallen on deaf ears).

 

Raise the bar, and start with something that doesn't need an overpriced "campaign" of pictograms.  Or is that they only way to reach New Yorkers?

[IAlam]

Bullshit ...... excuses are exactly that: EXCUSES.  There is NO reason why the MTA shouldn't be maintaining its' stock to "new or nearly-new" condition at every turn.

 

YOU put up with what you get, you DESERVE what you get.  You'd be throwing a fit if you had to clean your own seat or put a shopping bag down before you sat because some asswipe left a mess, but then you "justify" it.

 

Obviously, you don't see what's right in front of your face.  Without YOUR tax dollars, the MTA would not exist.  So put your pom-poms down, THINK, and work from that point.

 

 

...which is why there should be a sufficient staff of cleaners to take care of this type of stuff. Each individual bus isn't out on the road 24/7. Whenever it pulls into the depot is when it should be taken care of.

 

 

Just to add:

The operators should have some sort of responsibility.  Before any of you get your panties wadded up, especially with the Union thinking of "jobs lost", the Operator represents the MTA and everything it stands for, and is the front-lines person (after all, any complaints cite the Operator anyway) in CUSTOMER SERVICE.

 

How many complaints (just recently, skim back on the pages) are made about Operators not "in charge" of the bus?  That effects an awful lot, and if you really think about it ... it does.  From telling people to move back to bouncing people off when they violate the rules that the MTA has in place to benefit all customers, it's up to the Operator at the end of the day.

 

If a clean bus pulls up and customers notice it (yeah, they DO), then they'll keep it that way.  You'll always have some bonehead who decides to do whatever, but cut it short, it'll stop.

 

I pretty sure new buses have enough space to store a dustpan and broom if need be. Also the towers behind the drivers could also hold space for trash bins (preferably ones that are not for public use) and it wouldn't cost to much to ensure that buses stay clean. But that merely an idea where the MTA would probably complain about a lack of funding. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Golly ... don't you get tired of spreading you legs hoping you'll ....... oh, whoops, continuing that could get me an "infraction" here ..... and this time, it's not only VG8 giving you a downvote for your response but someone else.

 

Everyone's a winner, all opinions are valued, say it, "kumbayaaaaaa" .....

 

Bullshit ...... excuses are exactly that: EXCUSES. There is NO reason why the MTA shouldn't be maintaining its' stock to "new or nearly-new" condition at every turn.

 

YOU put up with what you get, you DESERVE what you get. You'd be throwing a fit if you had to clean your own seat or put a shopping bag down before you sat because some asswipe left a mess, but then you "justify" it.

 

Obviously, you don't see what's right in front of your face. Without YOUR tax dollars, the MTA would not exist. So put your pom-poms down, THINK, and work from that point.

 

Go ahead and censure me if you think I'm so vitriolic to the discussion here, just because you have "Moderator" status (like your "threat" on the other thread that you decided you should get involved in -- which never warranted any such intervention).

 

You want discussion, yet anything contrary to your own point of view is somehow irrelevant or inflammatory, especially when it comes to your vaunted "mother", the MTA.

 

Being a cheerleader gets you a reputation, and it's not necessarily a positive one. Especially when you're able to take on the whole team without putting up a good fight before the skirt falls to the ground.

Sorry, but this is worthy of me posting on because I agree with EVERYTHING you stated! Bravo for speaking your mind and not brown nosing! It's unfortunate that varying opinions are not valued here and why I refuse to post anymore. Edited April 28, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[DetSMART45]

I want it to be clear: I am NOT personally against Fresh Pond (nor any other Moderator here), but am only reacting to the comment made.  Common-sense overrules everything, and is the cheapest thing out there (which too many, once they get "promoted", seem to disregard, irregardless of place).

 

DDOT almost purposely pulls ALL of their 2015 Xcelsiors from weekend service to maintain them (whether that be their own policy or in conjunction with New Flyer).  And because of that, when they're out doing the heavy loads of weekday work, they're in the best shape possible -- and that affects not only the customers, but also the Operators, in the way the service, overall, is perceived.

 

Cleanliness is very important, otherwise why would the NYC government have restaurants post their grades at the entry (as an example)?

 

It was very out of the ordinary -- but VERY much a "+1" -- when I saw a DDOT operator cleaning a new XD40 while on layover (yes, couldn't believe it).  Smelled the cleaner residue (and noticed the shiny stainless steel/up-front panels when boarding) soon afterwards.  No trash on the floor or on the seats, and we had a full load (with standees) by the end of the trip.  Walked through on the way to the back door at the end, and everything was remarkably clean.  Similar experience on an artic earlier in the week as well.

 

Set the bar high, and people will meet or exceed it -- on their own.  Set it low, they'll lower their standards.  A proper gatekeeper is all that's necessary.

[Around the Horn]

Agree w/ DETSmart on all counts...

 

I see no reason why an operator couldn't, at the very least, monitor their bus during the run and inform a cleaner when they return to the depot...

[DetSMART45]

Agree w/ DETSmart on all counts...

 

I see no reason why an operator couldn't, at the very least, monitor their bus during the run and inform a cleaner when they return to the depot...

It should be also at layover points as well.  If a number of lines terminate at a certain point (especially in your case, subway stations), then have a cleaning detail run through the bus with a broom and lobby pan -- and in winter, have a mop at the ready.  Winter time cuts down on the "slip and fall" possibilities (since you guys don't have cameras onboard), meaning a lower liability insurance rate.  Pay someone an hourly rate, or someone thousands of dollars -- that'll be something even the persnickety bean-counters would side with.

 

Honestly, perception plays an extremely important role when coordinated with on-time service.  And like I said, customers will respond in kind.  If the MTA put forth a good-faith effort in just this area alone, it could be a stepping stone toward a better reception by the public.  After all, the subway cars/stations are a lot cleaner, aren't they?  Why not extend that to the bus division, where there are significant "opportunities" (as consultants like to say) that exist with the declining number of users?

 

As I've said previously, if you shrink-wrap new livery on the exterior and the interior is just the same, do you really think people won't notice?

 

DDOT has new livery on the Xcelsiors, but that is probably completely wasted on 95% of people on the street.  The buses are now coming according to schedule, they're better in terms of maintenance (interior and mechanically), and that's what really matters to those 95%.

 

Maybe 50-60% have/currently use(d) suburban SMART where those things were "expected" and with DDOT is wasn't.  Now, they're getting suburban service right in their neighborhood.  Think that doesn't matter, that it's not noticed?  It is.

[Around the Horn]

^ the newest buses have cameras

[DetSMART45]

^ the newest buses have cameras

^ ALL the buses should have cameras -- which, as I said, would decrease the liability insurance.  Priority should have been equipping all of the fleet, as well as getting ADA met with annunciators and LED Stop Request/current stop info.  The MTA certainly could have used Homeland Security grants to put cameras on all the buses, well before other TAs decided to do so, given their "priority" in importance across the country. Our small suburban system had rudimentary cameras (one on the ceiling at the front) on select buses in the 1990s (Flxibles, no less, that ended up getting scrapped).  But in the epicenter, the almost 6000-strong fleet still doesn't have such a preventive guard for its customers/employees, even after almost 15 years.  Just think about that for a minute.

[Around the Horn]

^ ALL the buses should have cameras -- which, as I said, would decrease the liability insurance.  Priority should have been equipping all of the fleet, as well as getting ADA met with annunciators and LED Stop Request/current stop info.  The MTA certainly could have used Homeland Security grants to put cameras on all the buses, well before other TAs decided to do so, given their "priority" in importance across the country. Our small suburban system had rudimentary cameras (one on the ceiling at the front) on select buses in the 1990s (Flxibles, no less, that ended up getting scrapped).  But in the epicenter, the almost 6000-strong fleet still doesn't have such a preventive guard for its customers/employees, even after almost 15 years.  Just think about that for a minute.

Once again you're preaching to the choir here.

[checkmatechamp13]

I pretty sure new buses have enough space to store a dustpan and broom if need be. Also the towers behind the drivers could also hold space for trash bins (preferably ones that are not for public use) and it wouldn't cost to much to ensure that buses stay clean. But that merely an idea where the MTA would probably complain about a lack of funding. 

 

While I do agree it would be nice if operators cleaned the bus themselves (which would invalidate the "money" argument), the unions would probably complain about the operators taking work from the cleaners. So the next best thing is to just hire more cleaners (and as DetSMART45 said, have a few stationed at major terminals to handle as many buses as possible, in an efficient manner). 

 

As far as lack of funding is concerned, I don't want to hear that complaint until they use the funding that they do have properly. When you have buses bunching up at 11PM (even during rush hour, there's a limit to the amount of bunching that should be considered acceptable), and inefficient shuttles that don't properly serve the neighborhoods they're supposed to, it's no wonder ridership and revenue isn't as high as they want it to be. 

 

I mean, if a cleaner services say, 10 buses per hour at a terminal, at an hourly rate of $20, that's $2 per cleaning. That's less than a full bus fare. You attract one additional passenger per bus as a result of this, and you break even. 

[DetSMART45]

Once again you're preaching to the choir here.

Yes, I know, and heard the "Amen".

 

But putting it out there does do something, especially for the MTA employees who come here.  (Yes, they do skulk around these parts, especially those who are "guest" users.)

 

It's kinda like how you remember something if you write it down, or if in a social situation you repeat someone's name to yourself and associate something about their appearance.

 

Maybe someone will remember these things and make changes.  A longshot, but at least worth a try.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How two BM2 buses are bunching at this time, out of all times of the day, is beyond me. Non of the other BM's run at this time.

[Cait Sith]

...which is why there should be a sufficient staff of cleaners to take care of this type of stuff. Each individual bus isn't out on the road 24/7. Whenever it pulls into the depot is when it should be taken care of.

I pretty sure new buses have enough space to store a dustpan and broom if need be. Also the towers behind the drivers could also hold space for trash bins (preferably ones that are not for public use) and it wouldn't cost to much to ensure that buses stay clean. But that merely an idea where the MTA would probably complain about a lack of funding.

Response down below.

Agree w/ DETSmart on all counts...

 

I see no reason why an operator couldn't, at the very least, monitor their bus during the run and inform a cleaner when they return to the depot...

Pretty much because that's not their job. Some do it especially if they are assigned said bus, some don't.

After they are told to park the bus and such in the depot, that's pretty much it. Once the bus goes in for a wash and such with the shifter or other personnel, the cleaners get to it. There's a rotation that tends to happen in depots.

 

--------------------------------------------------

Buses for the most part are cleaned before heading out into service, but of course, if they need to take a bus out to make service, regardless of its cleanliness, they will.

 

The blame mostly goes to the passengers for making them a pigsty. For a bus operator to constantly clean the bus to a degree after every trip, it can be both annoying and tedious, especially being on a trip that's 45 minutes to an hour or more and certain things that is just not worth cleaning themselves. It can get very tiring to an already tiring position.

 

Some operators(mostly the express bus operators and some local ops) actually clean the interiors themselves, kudos to them. But for the majority of local operators....I don't think they'd want to clean up the hot mess that builds up on local buses.

 

Back before I started taking photos and videos of buses, I used to ride with my uncle at times when he was a bus operator. He would come out with a bus that's clean on the inside. And when he gets at least 2-3 trips in, it gets dirty. Sometimes its regular trash bags, bottles and newspapers which he did clean at times, sometimes its spilled drinks that can get the floors sticky, sometimes it's many different kinds of foods and snacks, which isn't worth cleaning. Some cases, you need a dustpan and broom, others, you need some more stronger cleaning methods.

 

Terminal cleaners is a good idea, but also unsafe. Unlike the subways where they can go into those rooms to cool off or warm up, there's literally nowhere to go for terminal cleaners at a lot of layover spots in the five boroughs, so weather would be a problem(with the exception of actual terminals like St. George and the like, in which it would actually work for that terminal).

 

For big terminals like St. George, 165th Street, Jamaica Center and the like, you'd have to hire a pretty moderate amount of staff members to get to all those buses, and with the way those buses tend to pull up and pull out at some of the bigger terminals, you'd have a pretty hard time trying to clean at least one bus especially when schedules are tight.

 

Overall, the cost for hiring terminal cleaners would go up. It's not exactly as easy as it sounds.

 

I'm all for the idea of cleaning methods outside of the depots to keep them in good shape while in service, but there's a lot of pros and cons to this. An idea like this would work in much smaller agencies in my opinion.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Cait Sith

[trainfan22]

They have sweepers at 165th, I personally seen a guy come in and sweep a Q3 bus on layover 

[Cait Sith]

They have sweepers at 165th, I personally seen a guy come in and sweep a Q3 bus on layover

That must've been a long time ago because I never see them lol

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[trainfan22]

That must've been a long time ago because I never see them lol

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

It was a few months ago in the morning during the week. 

[Q113 LTD]

By the time when most of the buses(2011 & onward) are covered with the new color scheme, people that takes the +SBS+ should not have any problems determining whether an approaching bus is an +SBS+ vehicle, right?